X-Virus-Scanned: clean according to Sophos on Logan.com Return-Path: Received: from omr-m04.mx.aol.com ([64.12.143.78] verified) by logan.com (CommuniGate Pro SMTP 6.0.6) with ESMTPS id 6430485 for flyrotary@lancaironline.net; Sat, 17 Aug 2013 11:24:38 -0400 Received-SPF: pass receiver=logan.com; client-ip=64.12.143.78; envelope-from=Lehanover@aol.com Received: from mtaomg-da03.r1000.mx.aol.com (mtaomg-da03.r1000.mx.aol.com [172.29.51.139]) by omr-m04.mx.aol.com (Outbound Mail Relay) with ESMTP id 4440570001D68 for ; Sat, 17 Aug 2013 11:24:03 -0400 (EDT) Received: from core-moc005c.r1000.mail.aol.com (core-moc005.r1000.mail.aol.com [172.29.195.17]) by mtaomg-da03.r1000.mx.aol.com (OMAG/Core Interface) with ESMTP id EDF3FE000085 for ; Sat, 17 Aug 2013 11:24:02 -0400 (EDT) From: Lehanover@aol.com Full-name: Lehanover Message-ID: <32bac.563ec660.3f40ef92@aol.com> Date: Sat, 17 Aug 2013 11:24:02 -0400 (EDT) Subject: Re: [FlyRotary] Re: Single Rotor Update To: flyrotary@lancaironline.net MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="part1_32bac.563ec660.3f40ef92_boundary" X-Mailer: AOL 9.7 sub 1028 X-Originating-IP: [173.88.5.72] x-aol-global-disposition: G DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=mx.aol.com; s=20121107; t=1376753043; bh=Vw4k5+EdeeG2yqGWRUWQccjcpwbxgbIiwzt4t/yScQY=; h=From:To:Subject:Message-ID:Date:MIME-Version:Content-Type; b=IJzsRmjK73XmbVqyCpm0eq5PXp+IIH5WHO1lpxetthZ/AvFqHSl0+7FwWHJoZEBYF E+i/Ej7Gwst70Hnbtvd6jvJbgCa8JbvJKrJDAJiHzHgIanqCjkKXrbWvIizhpcAVkV aTVmA5idVtBQXBd8knAoy5zpAlt2cPoLkyNwK3k8= x-aol-sid: 3039ac1d338b520f95925466 --part1_32bac.563ec660.3f40ef92_boundary Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Content-Language: en Stromberg and SU carbs had float bowls fitted right beside the venturi.=20 Dead simple. Reliable. Sensitive to fuel level in the bowl.=20 =20 Lynn E. Hanover =20 =20 In a message dated 8/17/2013 10:54:58 A.M. Eastern Daylight Time, =20 eanderson@carolina.rr.com writes: =20 I have a friend who tried an Ellison on a 13B. Never could get the low=20 end and the high end fuel flow to work together (I think the airflow range = =20 for the rotary exceeded the model he was using). =20 =20 In any case, it finally failed him, destroyed his aircraft in the crash =20 landing, but fortunately came through with no physical damage to the pilot= . =20 When he set the Ellison up so it would idle OK, he ran out of fuel flow on= =20 the high end. When he set if so the high end flow was good, he had too=20 much fuel on the low end. Never did sort it out. =20 Ed =20 =20 =20 From: _Richard Sohn_ (mailto:res12@fairpoint.net) =20 Sent: Saturday, August 17, 2013 9:53 AM To: _Rotary motors in aircraft_ (mailto:flyrotary@lancaironline.net) =20 Subject: [FlyRotary] Re: Single Rotor Update =20 =20 =20 =20 I am not really sure what is causing the problem, since some of the =20 interior can not be opened without causing damage to crimps. From what can = be =20 seen from the outside and the results of my observations, I think there is = =20 insufficient air bleeding in the section between the pressure regulator and= =20 the spray tube, which is affecting fuel flow continuity under certain =20 condition. There is no information available as of the difference of the physical lay= =20 out form the original Ellison carb.=20 I realize that I do not have a good case for functional reliability, but I= =20 have don extensive investigation on the test stand, which clearly=20 identified the area of concern so I can stay away from it. =20 By the way, after a couple of emails with ROTEC there was just silence =20 from their side. =20 Richard Sohn N2071U http://www.fairpoint.net/~res12/home.html =20 =20 =20 From: _Ed Anderson_ (mailto:eanderson@carolina.rr.com) =20 Sent: Saturday, August 17, 2013 8:04 AM To: _Rotary motors in aircraft_ (mailto:flyrotary@lancaironline.net) =20 Subject: [FlyRotary] Re: Single Rotor Update =20 =20 =20 =20 So Richard, =20 Why causes the problem with the origination orientation of the TB =E2=80= =93 does=20 the jet leak, fail to fee fuel in that orientation =E2=80=93 airflow probl= em? =20 Ed =20 =20 =20 From: _Richard Sohn_ (mailto:res12@fairpoint.net) =20 Sent: Friday, August 16, 2013 10:44 PM To: _Rotary motors in aircraft_ (mailto:flyrotary@lancaironline.net) =20 Subject: [FlyRotary] Single Rotor Update =20 =20 =20 =20 =20 Another update, hopefully the last one on the engine. =20 The problem with the ROTEC TBI (Ellison) has been solved. It turned out =20 that a statement by the manufacturer is not fully correct, if not misleadi= ng. My problem was engine cut out at WOT. This only occurred at high speed =20 taxi, not on the test stand. =20 ROTEC statement:=E2=80=9D Because the TBI has no float bowl, it will work i= n any =20 orientation, even upside down=E2=80=9D =20 I found out that if the slide throttle is horizontal in a side draft =20 configuration, you can encounter the problems I had.=20 =20 The problem showed up, with the slide throttle 5deg down at the =E2=80=9Cop= en=E2=80=9D =20 end. This is the difference between the horizontal orientation on my test = =20 stand and the installation in the tail dragger on the ground. =20 I solved the problem with orienting the TBI 45deg up on the =E2=80=9Copen= =E2=80=9D end, =20 after testing all variants I could imagine. This change included a unique = =20 double acting Bowden cable throttle.=20 The last two straight TOL worked flawless. =20 Richard Sohn N2071U http://www.fairpoint.net/~res12/home.html =20 =20 ____________________________________ -- Homepage: http://www.flyrotary.com/ Archive and UnSub: =20 http://mail.lancaironline.net:81/lists/flyrotary/List.html =20 ____________________________________ No virus found in this message. Checked by AVG - _www.avg.com_ (http://www.avg.com/)=20 Version: 2013.0.3392 / Virus Database: 3211/6583 - Release Date: 08/16/13 No virus found in this message. Checked by AVG - _www.avg.com_ (http://www.avg.com/)=20 Version: 2013.0.3392 / Virus Database: 3211/6585 - Release Date: 08/17/13 --part1_32bac.563ec660.3f40ef92_boundary Content-Type: text/html; charset="UTF-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Content-Language: en
Stromberg and SU carbs had float bowls fitted r= ight=20 beside the venturi. Dead simple. Reliable.
Sensitive to fuel level in the bowl.=20
 
Lynn E. Hanover
 
In a message dated 8/17/2013 10:54:58 A.M. Eastern Daylight Time,=20 eanderson@carolina.rr.com writes:
=
I have a friend who tried an Ellison on a 13B.  Never could get= the=20 low end and the high end fuel flow to work together (I think the airflow = range=20 for the rotary exceeded the model he was using). 
 
In any case, it finally failed him, destroyed his aircraft in the cr= ash=20 landing, but fortunately came through with no physical damage to the=20 pilot.  When he set the Ellison up so it would idle OK, he ran out o= f=20 fuel flow on the high end.  When he set if so the high end flow was = good,=20 he had too much fuel on the low end.  Never did sort it out.
 
Ed
 
From: Ri= chard=20 Sohn
Sent: Saturday, August 17, 2013 9:53 AM
Subject: [FlyRotary] Re: Single Rotor Update
 
I am not really sure what is causing the problem, since some of the= =20 interior can not be opened without causing damage to crimps. From what ca= n be=20 seen from the outside and the results of my observations, I think there i= s=20 insufficient air bleeding in the section between the pressure regulator a= nd=20 the spray tube, which is affecting fuel flow continuity under certain=20 condition.
There is no information available as of the difference of the physic= al=20 lay out form the original Ellison carb.
I realize that I do not have a good case for functional reliability,= but=20 I have don extensive investigation on the test stand, which clearly ident= ified=20 the area of concern so I can stay away from it.
 
By the way, after a couple of emails with ROTEC there was just silen= ce=20 from their side.
 
Ri= chard=20 Sohn
N2071U

http://www.fairpoint.net/~res12/home.html
 
From: Ed Anderson
Sent: Saturday, August 17, 2013 8:04 AM
Subject: [FlyRotary] Re: Single Rotor Update
 
So Richard,
 
Why causes the problem with the origination orientation of the TB&nb= sp; =E2=80=93=20 does the jet leak, fail to fee fuel in that orientation =E2=80=93 airflow= =20 problem?
 
Ed
 
From: Ri= chard=20 Sohn
Sent: Friday, August 16, 2013 10:44 PM
Subject: [FlyRotary] Single Rotor Update
 
Another update, hopefully the last one on the engine.
 
The problem with the ROTEC TBI (Ellison) has been solved. It turned = out=20 that a statement by the manufacturer is not fully correct, if not=20 misleading.
My problem was engine cut out at WOT. This only occurred at high spe= ed=20 taxi, not on the test stand.
 
ROTEC statement:=E2=80=9D Because the TBI has no float bowl, it will= work in any=20 orientation, even upside down=E2=80=9D 
I found out that if the slide throttle is horizontal in a side draft= =20 configuration, you can encounter the problems I had.
 
The problem showed up, with the slide throttle 5deg down at the =E2= =80=9Copen=E2=80=9D=20 end. This is the difference between the horizontal orientation on my test= =20 stand and the installation in the tail dragger on the ground.
 
I solved the problem with orienting the TBI 45deg up on the =E2=80= =9Copen=E2=80=9D end,=20 after testing all variants I could imagine. This change included a unique= =20 double acting Bowden cable throttle.
The last two straight TOL  worked flawless.
 
Richard=20 Sohn
N2071U

http://www.fairpoint.net/~res12/home.html
 

--
Homepage:  http://www.flyrotary.com/
Archive and=20 UnSub:  =20 http://mail.lancaironline.net:81/lists/flyrotary/List.html

No virus found in this=20 message.
Checked by AVG - www.avg.com
Version: 2013.0.3392 / Vi= rus=20 Database: 3211/6583 - Release Date:=20 08/16/13

No virus found in this=20 message.
Checked by AVG - www.avg.com
Version: 2013.0.3392 / Vi= rus=20 Database: 3211/6585 - Release Date:=20 08/17/13

 --part1_32bac.563ec660.3f40ef92_boundary--