X-Virus-Scanned: clean according to Sophos on Logan.com Return-Path: Received: from cdptpa-omtalb.mail.rr.com ([75.180.132.120] verified) by logan.com (CommuniGate Pro SMTP 6.0.6) with ESMTP id 6430461 for flyrotary@lancaironline.net; Sat, 17 Aug 2013 10:54:56 -0400 Received-SPF: pass receiver=logan.com; client-ip=75.180.132.120; envelope-from=eanderson@carolina.rr.com Return-Path: X-Authority-Analysis: v=2.0 cv=MpPQGhme c=1 sm=0 a=8784VxN1RgZhBaSzA3ibpA==:17 a=KWPSR_H0u7wA:10 a=sd834sivVCoA:10 a=05ChyHeVI94A:10 a=ayC55rCoAAAA:8 a=KGjhK52YXX0A:10 a=Q8Xz6Bq4Ix4A:10 a=LoHkbMfiAAAA:8 a=7g1VtSJxAAAA:8 a=Ia-xEzejAAAA:8 a=oCcaPWc0AAAA:8 a=8h2RfiBtOQx3OJTRz_YA:9 a=QEXdDO2ut3YA:10 a=dgUnYx4bRmMA:10 a=Qa1je4BO31QA:10 a=JE8zPpgOoB1AsmghU1UA:9 a=_W_S_7VecoQA:10 a=wvcWU0hdy_YA:10 a=EzXvWhQp4_cA:10 a=vVbyiAhbOLVgX38t:21 a=8784VxN1RgZhBaSzA3ibpA==:117 X-Cloudmark-Score: 0 X-Authenticated-User: X-Originating-IP: 174.110.171.30 Received: from [174.110.171.30] ([174.110.171.30:63143] helo=EdPC) by cdptpa-oedge01.mail.rr.com (envelope-from ) (ecelerity 2.2.3.46 r()) with ESMTP id 7F/4C-00757-D9E8F025; Sat, 17 Aug 2013 14:54:22 +0000 Message-ID: From: "Ed Anderson" To: "Rotary motors in aircraft" References: In-Reply-To: Subject: Re: [FlyRotary] Re: Single Rotor Update Date: Sat, 17 Aug 2013 10:54:11 -0400 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="----=_NextPart_000_0019_01CE9B38.1AE481E0" X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal Importance: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Windows Live Mail 16.4.3508.205 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V16.4.3508.205 This is a multi-part message in MIME format. ------=_NextPart_000_0019_01CE9B38.1AE481E0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable I have a friend who tried an Ellison on a 13B. Never could get the low = end and the high end fuel flow to work together (I think the airflow = range for the rotary exceeded the model he was using). =20 In any case, it finally failed him, destroyed his aircraft in the crash = landing, but fortunately came through with no physical damage to the = pilot. When he set the Ellison up so it would idle OK, he ran out of = fuel flow on the high end. When he set if so the high end flow was = good, he had too much fuel on the low end. Never did sort it out. Ed From: Richard Sohn=20 Sent: Saturday, August 17, 2013 9:53 AM To: Rotary motors in aircraft=20 Subject: [FlyRotary] Re: Single Rotor Update I am not really sure what is causing the problem, since some of the = interior can not be opened without causing damage to crimps. From what = can be seen from the outside and the results of my observations, I think = there is insufficient air bleeding in the section between the pressure = regulator and the spray tube, which is affecting fuel flow continuity = under certain condition. There is no information available as of the difference of the physical = lay out form the original Ellison carb.=20 I realize that I do not have a good case for functional reliability, but = I have don extensive investigation on the test stand, which clearly = identified the area of concern so I can stay away from it. By the way, after a couple of emails with ROTEC there was just silence = from their side. Richard Sohn N2071U http://www.fairpoint.net/~res12/home.html From: Ed Anderson=20 Sent: Saturday, August 17, 2013 8:04 AM To: Rotary motors in aircraft=20 Subject: [FlyRotary] Re: Single Rotor Update So Richard, Why causes the problem with the origination orientation of the TB = =E2=80=93 does the jet leak, fail to fee fuel in that orientation = =E2=80=93 airflow problem? Ed From: Richard Sohn=20 Sent: Friday, August 16, 2013 10:44 PM To: Rotary motors in aircraft=20 Subject: [FlyRotary] Single Rotor Update Another update, hopefully the last one on the engine. The problem with the ROTEC TBI (Ellison) has been solved. It turned out = that a statement by the manufacturer is not fully correct, if not = misleading. My problem was engine cut out at WOT. This only occurred at high speed = taxi, not on the test stand. ROTEC statement:=E2=80=9D Because the TBI has no float bowl, it will = work in any orientation, even upside down=E2=80=9D =20 I found out that if the slide throttle is horizontal in a side draft = configuration, you can encounter the problems I had.=20 The problem showed up, with the slide throttle 5deg down at the = =E2=80=9Copen=E2=80=9D end. This is the difference between the = horizontal orientation on my test stand and the installation in the tail = dragger on the ground. I solved the problem with orienting the TBI 45deg up on the = =E2=80=9Copen=E2=80=9D end, after testing all variants I could imagine. = This change included a unique double acting Bowden cable throttle.=20 The last two straight TOL worked flawless. Richard Sohn N2071U http://www.fairpoint.net/~res12/home.html -------------------------------------------------------------------------= ------- -- Homepage: http://www.flyrotary.com/ Archive and UnSub: = http://mail.lancaironline.net:81/lists/flyrotary/List.html -------------------------------------------------------------------------= ------- No virus found in this message. Checked by AVG - www.avg.com Version: 2013.0.3392 / Virus Database: 3211/6583 - Release Date: = 08/16/13 No virus found in this message. Checked by AVG - www.avg.com Version: 2013.0.3392 / Virus Database: 3211/6585 - Release Date: = 08/17/13 ------=_NextPart_000_0019_01CE9B38.1AE481E0 Content-Type: text/html; charset="UTF-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
I have a friend who tried an Ellison on a 13B.  Never could = get the=20 low end and the high end fuel flow to work together (I think the airflow = range=20 for the rotary exceeded the model he was using). 
 
In any case, it finally failed him, destroyed his aircraft in the = crash=20 landing, but fortunately came through with no physical damage to the=20 pilot.  When he set the Ellison up so it would idle OK, he ran out = of fuel=20 flow on the high end.  When he set if so the high end flow was = good, he had=20 too much fuel on the low end.  Never did sort it out.
 
Ed
 
Sent: Saturday, August 17, 2013 9:53 AM
Subject: [FlyRotary] Re: Single Rotor = Update
 
I am not really sure what is causing the problem, since some of the = interior can not be opened without causing damage to crimps. From what = can be=20 seen from the outside and the results of my observations, I think there = is=20 insufficient air bleeding in the section between the pressure regulator = and the=20 spray tube, which is affecting fuel flow continuity under certain=20 condition.
There is no information available as of the difference of the = physical lay=20 out form the original Ellison carb.
I realize that I do not have a good case for functional = reliability, but I=20 have don extensive investigation on the test stand, which clearly = identified the=20 area of concern so I can stay away from it.
 
By the way, after a couple of emails with ROTEC there was just = silence from=20 their side.
 
Richard=20 Sohn
N2071U

http://www.fairpoint.net/~res12/home.html
 
Sent: Saturday, August 17, 2013 8:04 AM
Subject: [FlyRotary] Re: Single Rotor = Update
 
So Richard,
 
Why causes the problem with the origination orientation of the = TB  =E2=80=93=20 does the jet leak, fail to fee fuel in that orientation =E2=80=93 = airflow problem?
 
Ed
 
Sent: Friday, August 16, 2013 10:44 PM
Subject: [FlyRotary] Single Rotor Update
 
Another update, hopefully the last one on the engine.
 
The problem with the ROTEC TBI (Ellison) has been solved. It turned = out=20 that a statement by the manufacturer is not fully correct, if not=20 misleading.
My problem was engine cut out at WOT. This only occurred at high = speed=20 taxi, not on the test stand.
 
ROTEC statement:=E2=80=9D Because the TBI has no float bowl, it = will work in any=20 orientation, even upside down=E2=80=9D 
I found out that if the slide throttle is horizontal in a side = draft=20 configuration, you can encounter the problems I had.
 
The problem showed up, with the slide throttle 5deg down at the = =E2=80=9Copen=E2=80=9D end.=20 This is the difference between the horizontal orientation on my test = stand and=20 the installation in the tail dragger on the ground.
 
I solved the problem with orienting the TBI 45deg up on the = =E2=80=9Copen=E2=80=9D end,=20 after testing all variants I could imagine. This change included a = unique double=20 acting Bowden cable throttle.
The last two straight TOL  worked flawless.
 
Richard=20 Sohn
N2071U

http://www.fairpoint.net/~res12/home.html
 

--
Homepage:  http://www.flyrotary.com/
Archive and=20 UnSub:  =20 http://mail.lancaironline.net:81/lists/flyrotary/List.html

No virus found in this=20 message.
Checked by AVG - www.avg.com
Version: 2013.0.3392 / = Virus=20 Database: 3211/6583 - Release Date:=20 08/16/13

No virus found in this=20 message.
Checked by AVG - www.avg.com
Version: 2013.0.3392 / = Virus=20 Database: 3211/6585 - Release Date: = 08/17/13

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