X-Virus-Scanned: clean according to Sophos on Logan.com Return-Path: Received: from mail-bk0-f53.google.com ([209.85.214.53] verified) by logan.com (CommuniGate Pro SMTP 6.0.5) with ESMTPS id 6344302 for flyrotary@lancaironline.net; Sat, 22 Jun 2013 06:35:28 -0400 Received-SPF: pass receiver=logan.com; client-ip=209.85.214.53; envelope-from=msteitle@gmail.com Received: by mail-bk0-f53.google.com with SMTP id e11so3640280bkh.40 for ; Sat, 22 Jun 2013 03:34:51 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=20120113; h=mime-version:in-reply-to:references:date:message-id:subject:from:to :content-type; bh=/GoQuMFHzPjW0oss1cFyRh/QHSqTIBHXOPt1suJf2G0=; b=BfwVLRtvQjwUiiFHWb3xSZYWo/4rdN5oYCXwVRaIY4oPlRGuv5TvBtkGLDLGAOZ3Og rC2PFcpPjBXok3xlAmMIXXNLAhT4k9ymAF0/s4X0joRjMMK85vsjAV5DBqz2Rf5CDRf0 F34d+ZnMOc252NZWn4EJ8Xb3QPIKZ9mPKXEtgdLW2fHAiYYqzpXwZTgboTduFiiQVTv1 yA1YnzFKKr59cihBOhfF0L5A/AHnY0XtY+qklUZyKRX5FrQLoME0VYaXxMi3Ml5Zg4zW MqeTatApzoAwbm20bXKszw8anqs3/PRYLmRoSaJ2GiCPd2gQxxjRL9ESGOMij51Kbtex +X0g== MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Received: by 10.205.10.200 with SMTP id pb8mr2548370bkb.0.1371897291431; Sat, 22 Jun 2013 03:34:51 -0700 (PDT) Received: by 10.204.186.79 with HTTP; Sat, 22 Jun 2013 03:34:51 -0700 (PDT) In-Reply-To: References: Date: Sat, 22 Jun 2013 05:34:51 -0500 Message-ID: Subject: Re: [FlyRotary] Re: Oil Pressure AGAIN From: Mark Steitle To: Rotary motors in aircraft Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary=20cf301cc62ab99f8204dfbbba4b --20cf301cc62ab99f8204dfbbba4b Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Chris, One question... are you running the oil injection pump or did you remove and go with pre-mix? Mark On Fri, Jun 21, 2013 at 7:08 PM, Chris Barber wrote: > Yeah, Mark, that's my thinking too. I think I posted to share more than > expecting a magic billet solution. > > Chris > > Sent from my iPhone 5 > > On Jun 21, 2013, at 18:45, "Mark Steitle" wrote: > > Chris, > > At this point I wouldn't take anything for granted. I would install > multiple oil pressure gauges throughout the system, one right at the front > cover and one at the oil filter adapter block. It seems to me that there's > got to be something you've overlooked. Suspect everything. > > I had an oil cooling problem that I couldn't seem to get a handle on > until one day I noticed the upper tank of my dual pass oil cooler was > shaped differently than the other end. It was bowed outward. In this > design (dual-pass), there is a dam between the inlet and outlet ports. It > is a tight fit, but it isn't welded to the tank. So, when the tank bowed, > it allowed most of the oil to bypass the core, essentially rendering the > oil cooler useless. I installed a new oil cooler and all is well. > > I tell this story to emphasize not to take anything for granted. > Suspect everything, verify everything. You will find the problem hiding > somewhere you never would have thought of in a million years. Think like > inspector Columbo, "... just one more question, ma'am." > > Mark S. > > > On Fri, Jun 21, 2013 at 5:58 PM, Chris Barber wrote: > >> >> Well, if any of y'all are curious about my progress, I am grounded in >> Phase One. >> >> I am having oil pressure problems again. The frustration is huge. To add >> to this, most of the archive searches I have made give results that >> prominently feature my inquiries. >> >> Following my engine out over the airport in April traced to gunk in the >> fuel rail, mods were made to the fuel system. During static tests the oil >> pressure would never come up to expectations. >> >> Hoping to lick the front o-ring problem that I have had SEVERAL times >> now, I pulled the front cover to take a look see. The o-ring was torn. >> >> I choose to be more assertive in trying to address this problem. I >> modified a brass fitting by grinding the OD to make it it cleanly fit >> inside the front iron (also, ground the inside diameter to keep flow as >> close as possible to stock) and tapped the front housing to accept the >> fitting to screw in. I then placed an o-ring around the fitting. I did not >> include the silicone ring this time as it kept preventing the smooth mating >> it the iron and cover. >> >> While apart, I verified the woodruff key was properly installed in the >> oil pump. The oil pump was replaced last time the cover was off. I also >> verified the oil pressure relief valve. It was still in place (not >> surprising since it has been safety wired in following it falling out once). >> >> I buttoned everything back up being meticulous that the o-ring mod seated >> properly. However, my oil pressure is still low. It's in the twenties (psi) >> while idling. This is not too bad as Racing Beat states this is acceptable >> at idle. But, when I rev it up to as much as 6000 (only long enough to >> verify trend) it only goes into the 30's. NOT acceptable. >> >> The engine has had carb jets replace the e-shaft ball. I believe this can >> lower the oil pressure a bit. Also, there is a front oil cooler installed. >> This necessitates about a 12 foot oil line run. It is plumbed in parallel. >> This could provide a bit lower pressure too I think. >> >> I using a mixture of Royal Purple 30, 40 and 50 oil. I added what was >> available at the time. >> >> I have yet to check the oil pressure regulator. I specifically remember >> installing it to torque with blue lock-tight last time I had access. >> >> I plan to isolate the engine from the coolers and filter and take >> readings using a mechanical gage. Currently I have two electronic gages, >> one for the RWS monitor and one for the SkyView monitor. They both read >> within a couple of psi from each other. >> >> If not for this Achilles Heal I would very likely out of Phase One and >> planning a trip to Osh. It has been a major distraction of energy and time. >> >> I know it could be bearings but the stationary gears and bearings were >> replaced at the last rebuild. Everything else seemed in spec. >> >> The front eccentric thermostat was replaced with the plug. >> >> The oil is flowing as the system heats up evenly. I need to see if the >> hoses are hard while running, as the no-pistons site says, hard like a >> brick. >> >> Insight as to what may be my problem and diagnostic course is always >> appreciated. >> >> I hope I have provided enough info and not omitted relevant information. >> >> I really can't express my annoyance/anger/disgust properly. >> >> Thanks again folks. >> >> Chris Barber. >> Houston >> Velocity 13b >> >> Sent from my iPhone 5 >> -- >> Homepage: http://www.flyrotary.com/ >> Archive and UnSub: >> http://mail.lancaironline.net:81/lists/flyrotary/List.html >> > > --20cf301cc62ab99f8204dfbbba4b Content-Type: text/html; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
Chris,=A0

One question... are you= running the oil injection pump or did you remove and go with pre-mix? =A0<= /div>

Mark


On Fri, Jun 21, 2013 at 7:08 PM, Chris B= arber <cbarber@texasattorney.net> wrote:
Yeah, Mark, that's my thinking too. I think I posted to share more= than expecting a magic billet solution.=A0

Chris

Sent from my iPhone 5

On Jun 21, 2013, at 18:45, "Mark Steitle" <msteitle@gmail.com> wrote:

Chris,=A0

At this point I wouldn't take anything for granted. =A0I would ins= tall multiple oil pressure gauges throughout the system, one right at the f= ront cover and one at the oil filter adapter block. =A0It seems to me that = there's got to be something you've overlooked. =A0Suspect everything. =A0

I had an oil cooling problem that I couldn't seem to get a handle = on until one day I noticed the upper tank of my dual pass oil cooler was sh= aped differently than the other end. =A0It was bowed outward. =A0In this de= sign (dual-pass), there is a dam between the inlet and outlet ports. =A0It is a tight fit, but it isn't= welded to the tank. =A0So, when the tank bowed, it allowed most of the oil= to bypass the core, essentially rendering the oil cooler useless. =A0I ins= talled a new oil cooler and all is well. =A0

I tell this story to emphasize not to take anything for granted. =A0Su= spect everything, verify everything. =A0You will find the problem hiding so= mewhere you never would have thought of in a million years. =A0Think like i= nspector Columbo, "... just one more question, ma'am."

Mark S.


On Fri, Jun 21, 2013 at 5:58 PM, Chris Barber <cbarber@= texasattorney.net> wrote:

Well, if any of y'all are curious about my progress, I am grounded in P= hase One.

I am having oil pressure problems again. The frustration is huge. To add to= this, most of the archive searches I have made give results that prominent= ly feature my inquiries. <sigh>

Following my engine out over the airport in April traced to gunk in the fue= l rail, mods were made to the fuel system. During static tests the oil pres= sure would never come up to expectations.

Hoping to lick the front o-ring problem that I have had SEVERAL times now, = I pulled the front cover to take a look see. The o-ring was torn.

I choose to be more assertive in trying to address this problem. I modified= a brass fitting by grinding the OD to make it it cleanly fit inside the fr= ont iron (also, ground the inside diameter to keep flow as close as possibl= e to stock) and tapped the front housing to accept the fitting to screw in. I then placed an o-ring around = the fitting. I did not include the silicone ring this time as it kept preve= nting the smooth mating it the iron and cover.

While apart, I verified the woodruff key was properly installed in the oil = pump. The oil pump was replaced last time the cover was off. I also verifie= d the oil pressure relief valve. It was still in place (not surprising sinc= e it has been safety wired in following it falling out once).

I buttoned everything back up being meticulous that the o-ring mod seated p= roperly. However, my oil pressure is still low. It's in the twenties (p= si) while idling. This is not too bad as Racing Beat states this is accepta= ble at idle. But, when I rev it up to as much as 6000 (only long enough to verify trend) it only goes into the 3= 0's. NOT acceptable.

The engine has had carb jets replace the e-shaft ball. I believe this can l= ower the oil pressure a bit. Also, there is a front oil cooler installed. T= his necessitates about a 12 foot oil line run. It is plumbed in parallel. T= his could provide a bit lower pressure too I think.

I =A0using a mixture of Royal Purple 30, 40 and 50 oil. I added what was av= ailable at the time.

I have yet to check the oil pressure regulator. I specifically remember ins= talling it to torque with blue lock-tight last time I had access.

I plan to isolate the engine from the coolers and filter and take readings = using a mechanical gage. Currently I have two electronic gages, one for the= RWS monitor and one for the SkyView monitor. They both read within a coupl= e of psi from each other.

If not for this Achilles Heal I would very likely out of Phase One and plan= ning a trip to Osh. It has been a major distraction of energy and time.

I know it could be bearings but the stationary gears and bearings were repl= aced at the last rebuild. Everything else seemed in spec.

The front eccentric thermostat was replaced with the plug.

The oil is flowing as the system heats up evenly. I need to see if the hose= s are hard while running, as the no-pistons site says, hard like a brick.
Insight as to what may be my problem and diagnostic course is always apprec= iated.

I hope I have provided enough info and not omitted relevant information.
I really can't express my annoyance/anger/disgust properly.

Thanks again folks.

Chris Barber.
Houston
Velocity 13b

Sent from my iPhone 5
--
Homepage: =A0http:/= /www.flyrotary.com/
Archive and UnSub: =A0 http://mail.lancaironline.net:81/lists/flyrotary/List.html


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