X-Virus-Scanned: clean according to Sophos on Logan.com Return-Path: Received: from mail-bk0-f54.google.com ([209.85.214.54] verified) by logan.com (CommuniGate Pro SMTP 6.0.5) with ESMTPS id 6343760 for flyrotary@lancaironline.net; Fri, 21 Jun 2013 19:45:10 -0400 Received-SPF: pass receiver=logan.com; client-ip=209.85.214.54; envelope-from=msteitle@gmail.com Received: by mail-bk0-f54.google.com with SMTP id it16so3587286bkc.27 for ; Fri, 21 Jun 2013 16:44:35 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=20120113; h=mime-version:in-reply-to:references:date:message-id:subject:from:to :content-type; bh=QW0c6n03evYGBQM9ojhfdbl9P4ThM+cPFtYzjEqD/0g=; b=bHTIFzoFIK3zfRtKbqhYZS72N35oVeIyKdSMhYFohCSpMIM8BkWmdMPEge9n4LAeab ck3XCJinuDMuRYnISJG0+pxOQHodHWxXLk4mLD1rAQ4Gw7yH8/uYdUEfyLuMszdubPDc PIEtFrMX6iMJvsiB84+jmpPrE5i4G+8z6X9VFFYSPBkUVh2kU7rc0gGK4G9bYuEbfGpN 7ulquNDceMkimSFjek2gqqrQSsuJVT8wom6Hf9zAeaw8IAE+EerkBXjWANltCEvTmNO1 M9ke8Ga76esvSbcCUDV14p/1bTL8uf/mZP4f3a/WKTXb317sgizAO+BOR+WaGg+2bdiW a8gw== MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Received: by 10.204.229.77 with SMTP id jh13mr2219850bkb.32.1371858275379; Fri, 21 Jun 2013 16:44:35 -0700 (PDT) Received: by 10.204.186.79 with HTTP; Fri, 21 Jun 2013 16:44:35 -0700 (PDT) In-Reply-To: References: Date: Fri, 21 Jun 2013 18:44:35 -0500 Message-ID: Subject: Re: [FlyRotary] Oil Pressure AGAIN From: Mark Steitle To: Rotary motors in aircraft Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary=485b393aa7b52fec0c04dfb2a5b7 --485b393aa7b52fec0c04dfb2a5b7 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Chris, At this point I wouldn't take anything for granted. I would install multiple oil pressure gauges throughout the system, one right at the front cover and one at the oil filter adapter block. It seems to me that there's got to be something you've overlooked. Suspect everything. I had an oil cooling problem that I couldn't seem to get a handle on until one day I noticed the upper tank of my dual pass oil cooler was shaped differently than the other end. It was bowed outward. In this design (dual-pass), there is a dam between the inlet and outlet ports. It is a tight fit, but it isn't welded to the tank. So, when the tank bowed, it allowed most of the oil to bypass the core, essentially rendering the oil cooler useless. I installed a new oil cooler and all is well. I tell this story to emphasize not to take anything for granted. Suspect everything, verify everything. You will find the problem hiding somewhere you never would have thought of in a million years. Think like inspector Columbo, "... just one more question, ma'am." Mark S. On Fri, Jun 21, 2013 at 5:58 PM, Chris Barber wrote: > > Well, if any of y'all are curious about my progress, I am grounded in > Phase One. > > I am having oil pressure problems again. The frustration is huge. To add > to this, most of the archive searches I have made give results that > prominently feature my inquiries. > > Following my engine out over the airport in April traced to gunk in the > fuel rail, mods were made to the fuel system. During static tests the oil > pressure would never come up to expectations. > > Hoping to lick the front o-ring problem that I have had SEVERAL times now, > I pulled the front cover to take a look see. The o-ring was torn. > > I choose to be more assertive in trying to address this problem. I > modified a brass fitting by grinding the OD to make it it cleanly fit > inside the front iron (also, ground the inside diameter to keep flow as > close as possible to stock) and tapped the front housing to accept the > fitting to screw in. I then placed an o-ring around the fitting. I did not > include the silicone ring this time as it kept preventing the smooth mating > it the iron and cover. > > While apart, I verified the woodruff key was properly installed in the oil > pump. The oil pump was replaced last time the cover was off. I also > verified the oil pressure relief valve. It was still in place (not > surprising since it has been safety wired in following it falling out once). > > I buttoned everything back up being meticulous that the o-ring mod seated > properly. However, my oil pressure is still low. It's in the twenties (psi) > while idling. This is not too bad as Racing Beat states this is acceptable > at idle. But, when I rev it up to as much as 6000 (only long enough to > verify trend) it only goes into the 30's. NOT acceptable. > > The engine has had carb jets replace the e-shaft ball. I believe this can > lower the oil pressure a bit. Also, there is a front oil cooler installed. > This necessitates about a 12 foot oil line run. It is plumbed in parallel. > This could provide a bit lower pressure too I think. > > I using a mixture of Royal Purple 30, 40 and 50 oil. I added what was > available at the time. > > I have yet to check the oil pressure regulator. I specifically remember > installing it to torque with blue lock-tight last time I had access. > > I plan to isolate the engine from the coolers and filter and take readings > using a mechanical gage. Currently I have two electronic gages, one for the > RWS monitor and one for the SkyView monitor. They both read within a couple > of psi from each other. > > If not for this Achilles Heal I would very likely out of Phase One and > planning a trip to Osh. It has been a major distraction of energy and time. > > I know it could be bearings but the stationary gears and bearings were > replaced at the last rebuild. Everything else seemed in spec. > > The front eccentric thermostat was replaced with the plug. > > The oil is flowing as the system heats up evenly. I need to see if the > hoses are hard while running, as the no-pistons site says, hard like a > brick. > > Insight as to what may be my problem and diagnostic course is always > appreciated. > > I hope I have provided enough info and not omitted relevant information. > > I really can't express my annoyance/anger/disgust properly. > > Thanks again folks. > > Chris Barber. > Houston > Velocity 13b > > Sent from my iPhone 5 > -- > Homepage: http://www.flyrotary.com/ > Archive and UnSub: > http://mail.lancaironline.net:81/lists/flyrotary/List.html > --485b393aa7b52fec0c04dfb2a5b7 Content-Type: text/html; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
Chris,=A0

At this point I wouldn&= #39;t take anything for granted. =A0I would install multiple oil pressure g= auges throughout the system, one right at the front cover and one at the oi= l filter adapter block. =A0It seems to me that there's got to be someth= ing you've overlooked. =A0Suspect everything. =A0

I had an oil cooling problem that I couldn&= #39;t seem to get a handle on until one day I noticed the upper tank of my = dual pass oil cooler was shaped differently than the other end. =A0It was b= owed outward. =A0In this design (dual-pass), there is a dam between the inl= et and outlet ports. =A0It is a tight fit, but it isn't welded to the t= ank. =A0So, when the tank bowed, it allowed most of the oil to bypass the c= ore, essentially rendering the oil cooler useless. =A0I installed a new oil= cooler and all is well. =A0

I tell this story to emphasize not to take = anything for granted. =A0Suspect everything, verify everything. =A0You will= find the problem hiding somewhere you never would have thought of in a mil= lion years. =A0Think like inspector Columbo, "... just one more questi= on, ma'am."

Mark S.


On Fri, Jun 21, 2013 at 5:58 PM, Chri= s Barber <cbarber@texasattorney.net> wrote:

Well, if any of y'all are curious about my progress, I am grounded in P= hase One.

I am having oil pressure problems again. The frustration is huge. To add to= this, most of the archive searches I have made give results that prominent= ly feature my inquiries. <sigh>

Following my engine out over the airport in April traced to gunk in the fue= l rail, mods were made to the fuel system. During static tests the oil pres= sure would never come up to expectations.

Hoping to lick the front o-ring problem that I have had SEVERAL times now, = I pulled the front cover to take a look see. The o-ring was torn.

I choose to be more assertive in trying to address this problem. I modified= a brass fitting by grinding the OD to make it it cleanly fit inside the fr= ont iron (also, ground the inside diameter to keep flow as close as possibl= e to stock) and tapped the front housing to accept the fitting to screw in.= I then placed an o-ring around the fitting. I did not include the silicone= ring this time as it kept preventing the smooth mating it the iron and cov= er.

While apart, I verified the woodruff key was properly installed in the oil = pump. The oil pump was replaced last time the cover was off. I also verifie= d the oil pressure relief valve. It was still in place (not surprising sinc= e it has been safety wired in following it falling out once).

I buttoned everything back up being meticulous that the o-ring mod seated p= roperly. However, my oil pressure is still low. It's in the twenties (p= si) while idling. This is not too bad as Racing Beat states this is accepta= ble at idle. But, when I rev it up to as much as 6000 (only long enough to = verify trend) it only goes into the 30's. NOT acceptable.

The engine has had carb jets replace the e-shaft ball. I believe this can l= ower the oil pressure a bit. Also, there is a front oil cooler installed. T= his necessitates about a 12 foot oil line run. It is plumbed in parallel. T= his could provide a bit lower pressure too I think.

I =A0using a mixture of Royal Purple 30, 40 and 50 oil. I added what was av= ailable at the time.

I have yet to check the oil pressure regulator. I specifically remember ins= talling it to torque with blue lock-tight last time I had access.

I plan to isolate the engine from the coolers and filter and take readings = using a mechanical gage. Currently I have two electronic gages, one for the= RWS monitor and one for the SkyView monitor. They both read within a coupl= e of psi from each other.

If not for this Achilles Heal I would very likely out of Phase One and plan= ning a trip to Osh. It has been a major distraction of energy and time.

I know it could be bearings but the stationary gears and bearings were repl= aced at the last rebuild. Everything else seemed in spec.

The front eccentric thermostat was replaced with the plug.

The oil is flowing as the system heats up evenly. I need to see if the hose= s are hard while running, as the no-pistons site says, hard like a brick.
Insight as to what may be my problem and diagnostic course is always apprec= iated.

I hope I have provided enough info and not omitted relevant information.
I really can't express my annoyance/anger/disgust properly.

Thanks again folks.

Chris Barber.
Houston
Velocity 13b

Sent from my iPhone 5
--
Homepage: =A0http:/= /www.flyrotary.com/
Archive and UnSub: =A0 http://mail.lancaironline.net:81/lists= /flyrotary/List.html

--485b393aa7b52fec0c04dfb2a5b7--