Mailing List flyrotary@lancaironline.net Message #59846
From: Al Wick <alwick@juno.com>
Subject: Re: [FlyRotary] Re: Intermittent fuel pressure loss
Date: Wed, 29 May 2013 08:08:09 -0700
To: Rotary motors in aircraft <flyrotary@lancaironline.net>
<I'm fabricating our fuel system now
 
Perfect. Encourage you to follow the same approach that every single car mfg now uses. In the last decade they have arrived at design that dramatically reduces all fuel risks. Unporting can't affect flow, vapor lock risk driven to near zero. No matter how much debris you have, flow is unaffected. It's just brilliant. You can prove this all by bench testing.
 
Unfortunately it's different from traditional airplane approach, so going to be a long time until it's adopted by planes.
 
-al wick
 
 
----- Original Message -----
Sent: Wednesday, May 29, 2013 7:46 AM
Subject: [FlyRotary] Re: Intermittent fuel pressure loss

Another example of why I appreciate this list.
Thanks al, I'm fabricating our fuel system now and appreciate the wise sober advice.
Steve Izett
Perth Western Australia
On 29/05/2013, at 9:59 PM, Al Wick <alwick@juno.com> wrote:

Hey Bill. A whole bunch of tests you can do without flying. I'd sure encourage that. Highly unlikely it's a fuel pump unless you routinely operate them without fuel. As Jeff suggests, fuel is important pump lubricant, should resist urge to run sys dry.
 
If you shared pics, it would help. Particularly gascolator, pump, plumbing.
 
Since you get consistent good results from turning on second pump, that points to flow restriction as likely cause. So a good test would be to undo fitting at engine and pump fuel into bucket. Measure volume with ruler and stopwatch. Pump 1, pump 2. This will also disprove pump theory. You could repeat test by disconnecting fuel return line. This is more severe test as now pump has to achieve 40 psi. Bad pump would not flow much volume at 40 psi.
 
Methodically go thru sys looking for debris, kink. Not just gascolator, but other areas too. It's possible to have gascolator leak air and lean sys.
 
For that matter, you may have engine running lean due to intake leak (other?), 2nd pump adds touch more fuel per injector pulse. Thus masking true cause. So I'd do the propane test (or other) for intake leak. Something loosen during flight and allow leak. Poke and push on components. Review o2 sensor values. By chance do you record these things during flight? Do you have other data that can prove it was or was not lean?
 
Verify each pump has independent grounds, power supply. Verify sys voltage. Recalibrate fuel pressure sender.
 
We have natural tendency to say "aha, I bet that's it". Forgetting that there are some simple tests to prove it. This is important time to be conservative and methodical.
 
Good luck.
 
-al wick
 
 
 
----- Original Message -----
Sent: Monday, May 27, 2013 7:09 AM
Subject: [FlyRotary] Intermittent fuel pressure loss

Has anyone had an instance of intermittent failure of the fuel pumps?  A
couple of days ago the engine started to intermittently lose power and
changed tanks. (both tanks were low, about 5 gal in right and 10 or so in
left)  The problem stopped so I thought I had unported the right tank.
Several minutes later it started again on the left tank and I turned on the
other fuel pump.  That seemed to stop it again.  I still suspected that I
had unported the tanks.

A couple of days later, I took off with about 45 gal and after about a 30
min flight, the engine lost power again twice.  I turned the other fuel pump
on and the problem stopped.

My fuel system goes thru a Gascolator then to the two pumps, then to a fuel
filter.  I assume that the Gascolator or the fuel filter could be getting
clogged, but I don't think that the other pump would bring the pressure back
if that were the case.  I only have about 70 flight hours on the pump and
maybe about 100 hours total including ground runs.

Also on the flight back, I had both pumps on and showing 40 lbs of pressure.
I then turned the secondary pump off and the pressure held at 40 lbs.  This
strikes me that it is an intermittent pump failure.  I plan to clean the
Gascolator, replace the fuel filter, and replace the pump.

Any thoughts, suggestions, experiences?  

My wife was with me on the last incident and I don't think she is interested
in trying to join Ed's glider club!

Bill B


--
Homepage:  http://www.flyrotary.com/
Archive and UnSub:   http://mail.lancaironline.net:81/lists/flyrotary/List.html


Subscribe (FEED) Subscribe (DIGEST) Subscribe (INDEX) Unsubscribe Mail to Listmaster