X-Virus-Scanned: clean according to Sophos on Logan.com Return-Path: Received: from nm20.access.bullet.mail.sp2.yahoo.com ([98.139.44.147] verified) by logan.com (CommuniGate Pro SMTP 6.0.4) with ESMTPS id 6181283 for flyrotary@lancaironline.net; Thu, 04 Apr 2013 16:45:15 -0400 Received-SPF: none receiver=logan.com; client-ip=98.139.44.147; envelope-from=bbradburry@bellsouth.net Received: from [98.139.44.106] by nm20.access.bullet.mail.sp2.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 04 Apr 2013 20:44:38 -0000 Received: from [67.195.15.62] by tm11.access.bullet.mail.sp2.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 04 Apr 2013 20:44:38 -0000 Received: from [127.0.0.1] by smtp103.sbc.mail.gq1.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 04 Apr 2013 20:44:38 -0000 DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=bellsouth.net; s=s1024; t=1365108278; bh=FrpI1e5pp/TOxnTE0xOrE3GArqzQoMLUevcHLxjBjKQ=; h=X-Yahoo-Newman-Id:X-Yahoo-Newman-Property:X-YMail-OSG:X-Yahoo-SMTP:X-Rocket-Received:From:To:References:In-Reply-To:Subject:Date:Message-ID:MIME-Version:Content-Type:X-Mailer:Thread-Index:X-MimeOLE; b=gVltAem9BOyOeq/ifPvaldzEL3REcLxjiQWv+TVs1bcgp5EXxMoF/nVA7oRCljKBBPYgtqovkJJ4SLEqXSG8Z0TEPd0v+NQIY7n+xJnIL/NFk5FEixfPM4JyDBXUmgIxfImoZKZoMtGXUZAVB0ldTl+VGUZPBLxn6mq/2EAeK9M= X-Yahoo-Newman-Id: 361842.48077.bm@smtp103.sbc.mail.gq1.yahoo.com X-Yahoo-Newman-Property: ymail-3 X-YMail-OSG: 8YlNxbMVM1m6xsQfP8_HzFdghjiwFYQ0.EZ6Cg1nfbGevXS fqcPLoZLehMUY7iINbKIZWtjenOWJhClLB8J65FN.jjO4yWY3RDEGMEUu3vQ hMGc9CpBuzmMTCf1NDrV_TZ6UxUHL2jHxBnIB1T3XtSmG0QEXMQR4p6sxA9T NNphPxru83pJK.06Lr88Cy7nM_cIo89kL0NaokWqdK2lmwAC.y_n7fdn8wXC zUJRQ0gsBGbUgXKER11xq3rLuftLnJRtGNMe0wT6N09NC189iEGiZhXlIzaC HeDzXSdoyToiREuZPNMbMGTi0zyv3rnTw6WUiastD4yEWCffzUuLz_cJ0T8e V0SamjzOFrlNJ86aixVM90naENhhM24Ftt_BKkZnP36Hbb2JfeVD_S3qvnFc IkPBvCU51gQUwJWN_kEWbQFpA0tIb3zJTS9NweF3FO1sfWjgPewgl7eQWoxL pchGZ8FP99KqQoJtqJdpoMTp0hX5JjE2mjhUYLUiYsj8TYw-- X-Yahoo-SMTP: gncFbbmswBBF8NfvI5ui22IxJJ5CCB4H6ZgiimJia8BbGK2EyA-- X-Rocket-Received: from Desktop (bbradburry@98.85.188.147 with login) by smtp103.sbc.mail.gq1.yahoo.com with SMTP; 04 Apr 2013 13:44:38 -0700 PDT From: "Bill Bradburry" To: "'Rotary motors in aircraft'" References: In-Reply-To: Subject: RE: [FlyRotary] Re: Replacement for Aeroquip fuel hose Date: Thu, 4 Apr 2013 16:44:36 -0400 Message-ID: <93F674326A994F1CA8F46CEC4D343050@Desktop> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="----=_NextPart_000_0006_01CE3153.B22EC820" X-Mailer: Microsoft Office Outlook 11 Thread-Index: Ac4xchsKxU8XifzsQo+4/8VFNXSHEAAAXbVw X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.0.6002.18463 This is a multi-part message in MIME format. ------=_NextPart_000_0006_01CE3153.B22EC820 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Good points all, Rich. I am basically doing the conditional now. I have the cowl off and am only running the engine to improve the tuning. That is why I was inquiring about recommendations for fuel hose. With the cowl off, there is a fairly stiff breeze that carries away any fuel vapor. I do suspect that there was some kind of path of least resistance that caused this problem originally. I now have two #4 welding cables attached from each battery to each side of the starter which is mounted on the PSRU plate. During this conditional, I plan to attach about a 12 ga wire from the center iron to each battery just in case the ignition ground is looking for a better path due to the sandwich you mention. Bill B _____ From: Rotary motors in aircraft [mailto:flyrotary@lancaironline.net] On Behalf Of ARGOLDMAN@aol.com Sent: Thursday, April 04, 2013 4:22 PM To: Rotary motors in aircraft Subject: [FlyRotary] Re: Replacement for Aeroquip fuel hose Bill, This probably goes without saying, but it is vital to determine why the arcing is happening. this may be a tremendous safety issue for you (and others) Arching does not happen in a vacuum (actually it is easier there) but there is a reason. It is possible that your electrical system is using your FUEL lines ( spelled lines full of FUEL) for the grounding of somewhat high amperage loads, such as starter or alternator. One thing to ascertain is " is your engine adequately grounded". The engine mount is a poor conductor. you need a good grounding strap (line) between the "-" of your battery and the case of the engine. Since our engines are sandwiches and there is a possibility (possibly remote) that there is some resistance between the bread and the meat, your current, wanting the path of least resistance may be using those fuel lines. Perhaps you need a better ground to the mounting bolts of your starter and/or alternator. I donnknow, if it were me, I would do the fuel line inspection, correction and replacement NOW, before further starting of the engine. By the way, what is your rationale for delaying until the next conditional to correct a problem where there may be significant current flowing through your fuel lines, especially when there is a fuel smell. You don't smell liquid fuel, you smell the vapor. Lessee vapor mixed with fuel in the proper proportions with some sort of ignition system --lets say an electric shock-- may make your next conditional inspection unnecessary. Keep safe and fly safely Rich In a message dated 4/4/2013 3:01:53 P.M. Central Daylight Time, bbradburry@bellsouth.net writes: I have several black spots on the SS braid for my fuel hoses they look like they were caused by an electrical arc? I think I can smell fuel around the spots. I plan to replace them at the conditional this month. What fuel hoses are being used besides Aeroquip? Bill B ------=_NextPart_000_0006_01CE3153.B22EC820 Content-Type: text/html; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable

Good points all, = Rich.

 

I am basically doing the = conditional now.  I have the cowl off and am only running the engine to improve = the tuning.  That is why I was inquiring about recommendations for fuel hose.  = With the cowl off, there is a fairly stiff breeze that carries away any fuel vapor.  I do suspect that there was some kind of path of least = resistance that caused this problem originally.  I now have two #4 welding = cables attached from each battery to each side of the starter which is mounted = on the PSRU plate.  During this conditional, I plan to attach about a 12 ga = wire from the center iron to each battery just in case the ignition ground is looking = for a better path due to the sandwich you mention. =

 

Bill B

From: = Rotary motors in aircraft [mailto:flyrotary@lancaironline.net] On Behalf Of ARGOLDMAN@aol.com
Sent: Thursday, April 04, = 2013 4:22 PM
To: Rotary motors in aircraft
Subject: [FlyRotary] Re: Replacement for Aeroquip fuel hose

 

Bill, =

 

=

This probably goes without saying, = but it is vital to determine why the arcing is happening. this may be a = tremendous safety issue for you (and others)

 

=

Arching does not happen in a = vacuum (actually it is easier there) but there is a reason. It is possible that = your electrical system is using your FUEL lines ( spelled lines full of FUEL) = for the grounding of somewhat high amperage loads, such as starter or = alternator.

 

=

One thing to ascertain is " = is your engine adequately grounded". The engine mount is a poor conductor. = you need a good grounding strap (line) between the "-" of your = battery and the case of the engine. Since our engines are sandwiches and there = is a possibility (possibly remote) that there is some resistance between the = bread and the meat, your current, wanting the path of least resistance may be = using those fuel lines. Perhaps you need a better ground to the mounting bolts = of your starter and/or alternator.

 

=

I donnknow, if it were me, I would = do the fuel line inspection, correction and = replacement NOW, before further starting of the = engine.

 

=

By the way, what is your rationale = for delaying until the next conditional to correct a problem where there may = be significant current flowing through your fuel lines, especially when = there is a fuel smell. You don't smell liquid fuel, you smell the vapor. Lessee = vapor mixed with fuel in the proper proportions with some sort of = ignition system --lets say an electric shock-- may make your next conditional = inspection unnecessary.

 

=

Keep safe and fly = safely

 

=

Rich

 

=

In a message dated 4/4/2013 = 3:01:53 P.M. Central Daylight Time, bbradburry@bellsouth.net = writes:

I have several black spots on the SS braid for my fuel hoses = they look like they were caused by an electrical arc?  I think I can = smell fuel around the spots.  I plan to replace them at the conditional this month.  What fuel hoses are being used besides = Aeroquip?

 

Bill B

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