X-Virus-Scanned: clean according to Sophos on Logan.com Return-Path: Received: from lincoln.lisco.com ([69.18.32.37] verified) by logan.com (CommuniGate Pro SMTP 6.0.1) with ESMTP id 6010402 for flyrotary@lancaironline.net; Sun, 13 Jan 2013 19:30:34 -0500 Received-SPF: none receiver=logan.com; client-ip=69.18.32.37; envelope-from=rob@mum.edu Received: from robertsdellxp (76-76-234-12.lisco.net [76.76.234.12]) by lincoln.lisco.com (Postfix) with SMTP id 4A6042BEEE for ; Sun, 13 Jan 2013 18:30:00 -0600 (CST) Message-ID: From: "Rob" To: "Rotary motors in aircraft" References: Subject: Re: [FlyRotary] Re: Hiccup Date: Sun, 13 Jan 2013 18:29:59 -0600 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="----=_NextPart_000_0049_01CDF1BB.FE6961F0" X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2900.5931 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2900.6157 This is a multi-part message in MIME format. ------=_NextPart_000_0049_01CDF1BB.FE6961F0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Bill, Something else to consider is that inductive core wires are kind of = delecate inside and that forcing them into a wire loom that is not made = for them can damage the delicate coil of wire inside. All these detail = are anoying. Robert ----- Original Message -----=20 From: Bill Bradburry=20 To: Rotary motors in aircraft=20 Sent: Sunday, January 13, 2013 5:30 PM Subject: [FlyRotary] Re: Hiccup Kelly, =20 I was lucky enough to mount the coils just the right distance from the = plugs and I am now using the stock RX-8 wires, so if they fit the RX-8, = they will fit my installation. =20 Thanks, Ed. I was going to go with the 8.5 if no one came up with a = reason for the thicker ones. The stock wires are 7mm, and it is pretty = hard to get them into the wire loom, so I will probably need to get a = larger loom for either one. I will try it first. =20 Bill B =20 -------------------------------------------------------------------------= ----- From: Rotary motors in aircraft [mailto:flyrotary@lancaironline.net] = On Behalf Of Kelly Troyer Sent: Sunday, January 13, 2013 3:34 PM To: Rotary motors in aircraft Subject: [FlyRotary] Re: Hiccup =20 Bill, One more consideration..............The Magnacore wires for the = Stock RX8 Renesis may not be the proper length for your installation...........Probably you will = need a custom set made if you have not already figured that out !!.............<:) =20 Kelly Troyer On Sun, Jan 13, 2013 at 1:06 PM, Ed Anderson = wrote: Bill, I have the 8.5mm wires - seems like there was a reason (other = than price, but too long ago to remember - perhaps I could only get = different color boots on the 8.5) =20 Ed =20 =20 =20 From: Bill Bradburry=20 Sent: Sunday, January 13, 2013 12:47 PM To: Rotary motors in aircraft=20 Subject: [FlyRotary] Re: Hiccup =20 Ed and John, =20 Do you guys have the 8.5 or the 10 MM thickness? Does it matter? =20 Bill B =20 -------------------------------------------------------------------------= ----- From: Rotary motors in aircraft [mailto:flyrotary@lancaironline.net] = On Behalf Of Ed Anderson Sent: Sunday, January 13, 2013 7:14 AM To: Rotary motors in aircraft Subject: [FlyRotary] Re: Hiccup =20 I agree with, John. I had Magnacore make custom wires for my rotary - = cost me around $45 back then. Have flow for close to 10 years now with = the wires with no problem. I also had the boots in two different = colors, one color for leading and one for trailing. =20 =20 Ed =20 From: John Slade=20 Sent: Saturday, January 12, 2013 7:31 PM To: Rotary motors in aircraft=20 Subject: [FlyRotary] Re: Hiccup =20 I'd recommend paying the $85. My magnacore custom made plug leads = haven't given me a problem in 8 years. Any way you can eliminate one possible cause is worth it. One nice = thing about Magnacore is that they will make them to specified length = with pre-installed connectors. I got mine in 2 colors. Red for leading, = Black for trailing. On 1/12/2013 3:18 PM, Bill Bradburry wrote: The Magnacore wires are fairly pricey, about $85 for the RX-8. Not = that I am cheap or anything, but does anyone have a more economical = source?? =20 Bill B=20 =20 -------------------------------------------------------------------------= --- From: Rotary motors in aircraft [mailto:flyrotary@lancaironline.net] = On Behalf Of Steven W. Boese Sent: Saturday, January 12, 2013 1:30 PM To: Rotary motors in aircraft Subject: [FlyRotary] Re: Hiccup =20 I had an aftermarket tachometer on my engine test stand that would = often read twice the actual rpm. The engine stand was set up so that = the power to each of the four ignition coils could be controlled = independently. The spark plug wires were Mazda OEM. The behavior of = the tach would sometimes be affected by the combination of ignition = coils that were active. In the course of troubleshooting, it was found = that the tach would consistently read twice the actual RPM when its = input wire was completely disconnected at the tach. It was concluded = that the tach was responding to signals emitted by the spark plug wires = and the doubled rpm indication was due to triggering by the ignition = signals from both rotors. Replacing the Mazda spark plug wires with = Magnecore wires from the installation in my plane cured the tach errors. = Now, however, checking the ignition timing with an inductive timing = light pickup on these wires was difficult whereas it was not a problem = with the original wires. =20 It should be noted that the EC2 on the engine stand never gave any = indication of having problems when either set of spark plug wires was = installed in spite of being physically located closer to the coils and = spark plug wires relative to the tach. =20 Steve Boese RV6A, 1986 13B NA, RD1A, EC2 =20 -------------------------------------------------------------------------= --- From: Rotary motors in aircraft [flyrotary@lancaironline.net] on = behalf of Dale_R [dale.rog@gmail.com] Sent: Saturday, January 12, 2013 8:04 AM To: Rotary motors in aircraft Subject: [FlyRotary] Re: Hiccup Dunno how many people here remember when spark wire was just that: = wire. But it was electrically noisy. So it got replaced by carbon = impregnated fabric, which has rather high resistance (a cheap way to = damp the "noise"). Another way to suppress the "noise" is to wrap the wire (many turns, = closely spaced) around an insulating core, which creates an inductive = impedance, which accomplishes the same goal but readily passes spark = current. AFAIK, "MAGNECORE" was the first to explore this method, but = several companies offer a similar product now. According to some = sources, the core material can make a large difference in the inductive = effectiveness. Therefore, I'd recommend=20 MAGNECORE. =20 -- Best Regards,Dale_R (who has no financial interest in Magnecore)Cozy = MKIV #497 On 1/12/2013 7:21 AM, Bill Bradburry wrote: Anybody have a recommendation for ignition wires for the Renesis? = I have the original Mazda wires. I checked them out yesterday and they = seemed fine, but I am still considering replacing them to see if it = helps. =20 Bill B =20 =20 =20 =20 =20 ------=_NextPart_000_0049_01CDF1BB.FE6961F0 Content-Type: text/html; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
Bill,
Something else to consider is that =  inductive core wires are kind of delecate inside and that forcing = them=20 into a wire loom that is not made for them can damage the delicate = coil of=20 wire inside. All these detail are anoying.
Robert
----- Original Message -----
From:=20 Bill=20 Bradburry
Sent: Sunday, January 13, 2013 = 5:30=20 PM
Subject: [FlyRotary] Re: = Hiccup

Kelly,

 

I was lucky = enough to=20 mount the coils just the right distance from the plugs and I am now = using the=20 stock RX-8 wires, so if they fit the RX-8, they will fit my=20 installation.

 

Thanks, = Ed.  I=20 was going to go with the 8.5 if no one came up with a reason for the = thicker=20 ones.  The stock wires are 7mm, and it is pretty hard to get them = into=20 the wire loom, so I will probably need to get a larger loom for either = one.  I will try it first.

 

Bill=20 B

 

From:=20 Rotary motors in aircraft = [mailto:flyrotary@lancaironline.net] On=20 Behalf Of Kelly Troyer
Sent: Sunday, January 13, 2013 = 3:34=20 PM
To: = Rotary motors in aircraft
Subject: [FlyRotary] Re:=20 Hiccup

 

 Bill,

   One more = consideration..............The=20 Magnacore wires for the Stock RX8 Renesis may not=20 be

the proper length for your=20 installation...........Probably you will need a custom set made if you = have

not already figured that out=20 !!.............<:)

 

Kelly=20 Troyer

On Sun, Jan 13, 2013 at 1:06 PM, Ed Anderson = <eanderson@carolina.rr.com>=20 wrote:

Bill, I have the 8.5mm = wires -=20 seems like there was a reason (other than price, but too long ago to = remember=20 - perhaps I could only get different color boots on the=20 8.5)

 

Ed

 

 

 

From: Bill = Bradburry=20

Sent: Sunday,=20 January 13, 2013 12:47 PM

To: Rotary motors in aircraft=20

Subject:=20 [FlyRotary] Re:=20 Hiccup

 

Ed and=20 John,

 

Do you guys = have the=20 8.5 or the 10 MM thickness?  Does it = matter?

 

Bill=20 B

 

From:=20 Rotary motors in aircraft = [mailto:flyrotary@lancaironline.net] On Behalf Of Ed = Anderson
Sent: Sunday, January 13, 2013 = 7:14=20 AM
To: = Rotary motors in aircraft
Subject: [FlyRotary] Re:=20 Hiccup

 

I agree = with,=20 John.  I had Magnacore make custom wires for my rotary - cost me = around=20 $45 back then.  Have flow for close to 10 years now with the = wires with=20 no problem.    I also had the boots in two different = colors,=20 one color for leading and one for trailing. =20

 

Ed

 

From: John Slade

Sent:=20 Saturday, January 12, 2013 7:31 PM

To: Rotary motors in aircraft=20

Subject:=20 [FlyRotary] Re: Hiccup

 

I'd recommend paying the = $85.  My=20 magnacore custom made plug leads haven't given me a problem in 8 = years.
Any=20 way you can eliminate one possible cause is worth it. One nice thing = about=20 Magnacore is that they will make them to specified length with = pre-installed=20 connectors. I got mine in 2 colors. Red for leading, Black for=20 trailing.

On 1/12/2013 3:18 PM, Bill=20 Bradburry wrote:

The = Magnacore wires=20 are fairly pricey, about $85 for the RX-8.  Not that I am cheap = or=20 anything, but does anyone have a more economical=20 source??

 

Bill B=20

 

From:=20 Rotary motors in = aircraft [mailto:flyrotary@lancaironline.net] On Behalf Of Steven W.=20 Boese
Sent: = Saturday,=20 January 12, 2013 1:30 PM
To: Rotary=20 motors in aircraft
Subject: [FlyRotary] Re:=20 Hiccup

 

I had = an=20 aftermarket tachometer on my engine test stand that would often read = twice=20 the actual rpm.  The engine stand was set up so that the power = to each=20 of the four ignition coils could be controlled independently.  = The=20 spark plug wires were Mazda OEM.  The behavior of the tach = would=20 sometimes be affected by the combination of ignition coils that were = active.  In the course of troubleshooting, it was found that=20 the tach would consistently read twice the actual RPM when its = input=20 wire was completely disconnected at the tach.  It was concluded = that=20 the tach was responding to signals emitted by the spark plug = wires and=20 the doubled rpm indication was due to triggering by the = ignition=20 signals from both rotors.  Replacing the Mazda spark plug wires = with Magnecore wires from the installation in my plane cured=20 the tach errors.  Now, however, checking the ignition = timing=20 with an inductive timing light pickup on these wires was = difficult=20 whereas it was not a problem with the original=20 wires.

 

It = should be=20 noted that the EC2 on the engine stand never gave any = indication=20 of having problems when either set of spark plug wires was = installed in=20 spite of being physically located closer to the coils and spark plug = wires relative to the tach.

 

Steve=20 Boese

RV6A,=20 1986 13B NA, RD1A, = EC2

 =20

From:=20 Rotary motors in = aircraft [flyrotary@lancaironline.net] on behalf of Dale_R = [dale.rog@gmail.com]
Sent: Saturday, January 12, = 2013 8:04=20 AM
To: = Rotary motors in aircraft
Subject: [FlyRotary] Re:=20 Hiccup

Dunno how many people here = remember=20 when spark wire was just that: wire.  But it was electrically=20 noisy.  So it got replaced by carbon impregnated fabric, which = has=20 rather high resistance (a cheap way to damp the = "noise").

Another way=20 to suppress the "noise" is to wrap the wire (many turns, closely = spaced)=20 around an insulating core, which creates an inductive impedance, = which=20 accomplishes the same goal but readily passes spark current.  = AFAIK,=20 "MAGNECORE" was the first to explore this method, but several = companies=20 offer a similar product now.  According to some sources, the = core=20 material can make a large difference in the inductive = effectiveness. =20 Therefore, I'd recommend=20 =
MAGNECORE.
 

-- 
Best Regards,
Dale_R (who has no financial interest in =
Magnecore)
Cozy MKIV #497




On 1/12/2013 = 7:21 AM,=20 Bill Bradburry=20 wrote:

Anybody = have a=20 recommendation for ignition wires for the Renesis?  I have = the=20 original Mazda wires.  I checked them out yesterday and they = seemed=20 fine, but I am still considering replacing them to see if it=20 helps.

 

Bill=20 B

 

 

 



 

 

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