X-Virus-Scanned: clean according to Sophos on Logan.com Return-Path: Received: from mail-ob0-f180.google.com ([209.85.214.180] verified) by logan.com (CommuniGate Pro SMTP 5.4.5) with ESMTPS id 5593865 for flyrotary@lancaironline.net; Mon, 11 Jun 2012 19:53:16 -0400 Received-SPF: pass receiver=logan.com; client-ip=209.85.214.180; envelope-from=keltro@gmail.com Received: by obbun3 with SMTP id un3so6517439obb.25 for ; Mon, 11 Jun 2012 16:52:39 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=20120113; h=mime-version:in-reply-to:references:date:message-id:subject:from:to :content-type; bh=7yQL1P6Pvl39Ze0QKFgZ3atijfdm/oHMLXFAaxMXqNk=; b=mOQxw5NQG+Ot82mvbkqQk1cgzngYfLAdsiIpT56fFalkVT+jF+jO/IBwTz3bXEGchl qdTLMPH/eUsvrNvUsSCQFuB5j3y026ceYZiA66/1Jb38HHVr/SXMf16V1ZiBRa7hmDkv OnzPkQiDn2O989dBadNaCAlwk6mlLslF6m/aHVLwGl/9rqjjCLVANXi7lIIjGkn2d1yR NwrweBMSCqi6eCt4WvirbscV/d9xF/Iw/Gpmvsh8pV6jFz8joKFAqIDyZpbwNMkTIcq3 +QprI6HiVbF2VNHEThQw4/euf8GsmRVjwwsvmxnUqP7G46S4j1O/SWcpwzRUKftryH5t r4GQ== MIME-Version: 1.0 Received: by 10.182.111.39 with SMTP id if7mr10577732obb.55.1339458759595; Mon, 11 Jun 2012 16:52:39 -0700 (PDT) Received: by 10.60.28.70 with HTTP; Mon, 11 Jun 2012 16:52:39 -0700 (PDT) In-Reply-To: References: Date: Mon, 11 Jun 2012 18:52:39 -0500 Message-ID: Subject: Re: [FlyRotary] Re: First flight - Velocity N17010 From: Kelly Troyer To: Rotary motors in aircraft Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary=14dae93990878e95f004c23b0b69 --14dae93990878e95f004c23b0b69 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Think you are right on David...............With the 2.17 redrive Chris's prop was turning about 3165 rpm at his reported 6870 engine rpm............ Kelly Troyer On Mon, Jun 11, 2012 at 6:24 PM, Dave wrote: > Tracy... > > Chris is flying from KEFD. Elevation is MAYBE 40 feet.. if that.. MSL. > > my speculation is... based on his comment about rpm improving over static > once he got moving, is that he was in a full fine pitch setting on his IVO. > > Chris.. what we are saying is.. you were revving it pretty high in first > gear.. upshift/pitch the prop once you are moving and drop that rpm.. get > into high gear. > > On 6/11/2012 8:25 AM, Tracy wrote: > > FWIW, my observations on your data Chris. > > I forget what the field elevation is where you test but that engine RPM at > 127 kts and 24.7 MAP suggests a few things. First, you probably should > have more pitch in the prop, That rpm is high for that flight condition. > If you were on downwind with the intention of landing, you had a lot more > MP than needed. (24" Hg is standard setting for 75% cruise power). Your > field elevation is either very high or you didn't have a throttle setting > high enough to generate any boost so the waste gate spring wasn't affecting > anything. BTW, what was the throttle setting? What MAP do you read at > WOT? > > From the few flights I've done with the data logger on, it looks like it > takes at least 3 minutes for engine temperatures to stabilize after a large > change in flight conditions or power settings on my installation. I doubt > things would even start to reach equilibrium on a single circuit of the > field after takeoff. > > BTW, send me your address for "The Button" . Same for any other post > first flight rotary builders who missed their buttons. I have Bill Schertz > & John Downing's so far. > > Tracy > > On Sun, Jun 10, 2012 at 2:26 PM, Chris Barber wrote: > >> I reviewed my very short and shaky video more. On Downwind, it shows a >> GPS speed of 127 kts. The rotary is turning at 6870 RPM (up about 600 RPM >> from static) with a MAP of 24.7 (1.5 lb spring in the waste gate). Coolant >> Temp was 187 degrees and oil temp was 224. Oil pressure and Coolant >> pressure numbers could not be read but the "gauges" on the Dynon were in >> the green. >> >> >> >> A few minutes later I was able to get another picture of my engine data >> taken as I was rolling off the active. These reading are about 30 seconds >> after the wheels touch down. I know it is 30 seconds since I can hear the >> wheels touching the pavement since my I-phone continued to record even >> though it was face down in my passenger seat. Engine RPM was 2489 and the >> coolant was down to 175. More interesting was that the oil temp had >> already dropped to 204 (20 degree drop). Yeah, still higher than I like >> but a pretty big drop a matter of a few minutes. I do think oil takes >> longer to read delta T's than coolant...but I could be damned wrong on that. >> >> >> >> Perhaps I just noticed the oil enough after a full power climb before it >> had a chance to adapt and cool a bit?? >> >> Chris >> ------------------------------ >> *From:* Rotary motors in aircraft [flyrotary@lancaironline.net] on >> behalf of CozyGirrrl@aol.com [CozyGirrrl@aol.com] >> *Sent:* Saturday, June 09, 2012 11:52 PM >> >> *To:* Rotary motors in aircraft >> *Subject:* [FlyRotary] Re: First flight - Velocity N17010 >> >> Congratulations Chris! I knew you'd do it this morning. Please consider >> yourself hugged by both of us. >> What wastegate are you using with that spring? >> >> >> Chrissi & Randi >> www.CozyGirrrl.com >> CG Products, Custom Aircraft Hardware >> Chairwomen, Sun-N-Fun Engine Workshop >> >> In a message dated 6/9/2012 1:17:14 P.M. Central Daylight Time, >> cbarber@texasattorney.net writes: >> >> Didn't notice MAP. Since I am concerned about detonation I have the >> weakest spring installed. It is 1.5 lbs. >> >> >> Sent from my iPhone 4 >> >> On Jun 9, 2012, at 12:42 PM, "Kelly Troyer" wrote: >> >> YAA-HOO Chris !!.................Congrats and keep the reports >> coming............Be interested in if your oil temp was just >> hi power takeoff temp that would come down with reduced power and more >> airspeed............Did you notice what >> MAP was (amount of boost) ??......................<:) >> >> Kelly Troyer >> >> On Sat, Jun 9, 2012 at 12:24 PM, Bobby J. Hughes wrote: >> >>> Congrats Chris. Be safe and keep the reports coming. Does your Dynon >>> have ant data logging capability? >>> >>> Bobby >>> >>> Sent from my iPad >>> >>> On Jun 9, 2012, at 11:53 AM, "Chris Barber" >>> wrote: >>> >>> June 9, 2002 - A trailer pulled up in front of a simple but >>> comfortable home in Houston. >>> >>> Lots of trails, tribulations blood, time, money, recreation, education, >>> fun, friendships, anger, frustration, problem solving, sweat, pondering >>> etc....repeat and repeat again and again. >>> >>> Fast forward (it did go fast) >>> >>> June 9, 2012 - Ellington Field - A lone, very nervous man arrives at >>> the airport shortly before 0900 hrs. Pushes onto the ramp the contraption >>> composed of fiberglass, metal et al and the ingredients listed above. He >>> sits down and writes a simple holographic (hand written) will and short >>> note with information to call "Mom" and work. Calls tower to relay intent >>> via the phone. >>> >>> Preflights the contraption. Gets in, goes though basic Checklist. Cranks >>> up the engine, which fires right up at about 0920 hrs. Taxi to Juliet. >>> Calls tower to verify intent and to taxi to active, 35L. Taxis to Taxiway >>> Echo. Checks temps. Pushing 195 with OAT reading 95 degrees (geesh it is >>> only about 0930 hrs). >>> >>> Cleared to take active and hold. Taxied out. Lined up castering nose >>> wheel down center stripe. Cleared to take off. Added power and engine >>> smoothly ran up. Airspeed coming in. 30 kts...50 kts ....60 kts, >>> approximate rotation speed. Lots of runway (9000 ft).....hold it....70 >>> kts....72 kts... Slight pull on the yoke....AIRBORNE!!! Leaped into ground >>> effect. Screw this, pulled back on yoke and I am climbing. Jiggled the yoke >>> a bit to verify control authority. >>> >>> Climbed to about 400 feet and turned right pattern to crosswind. The >>> Dynon altitude and airspeed seem to be working. That's reassuring. Pattern >>> altitude is only 600 feet and I was there already as I turned to downwind. >>> Leveled off and noticed the clouds were lower than reported and appeared on >>> the ground. Also, noticed coolant temps had dropped to 190....but oil temps >>> were flashing at me and had reached 225 (synthetic Royal Purple). Damn. Ok. >>> Fly the airplane, the oil is not at not a critical level. , but let's just >>> finish the pattern and land. I grabbed my phone while on downwind and >>> attempted to record some data but while I can hear the engine the video is >>> awful....uh, in my defense, I was a bit distracted and way more concerned >>> with flying. I called the tower and informed them I was coming in. I think >>> they were looking out for me since as I turned to base I noticed the fire >>> department staged just off the runways threshold >>> >>> I noted I was a bit far out on down wind so I stared easing over to turn >>> base. Wow. I really overshot it as I blew by the runway and had to use full >>> right rudder to get back to the runway. I wish I had had more rudder. In >>> hindsight I think I was not using much aileron as I was cognoscente that I >>> had no idea of stall characteristics so I did not yet wish too strep a >>> turn. I was able to get over the runway and dump some altitude as I got >>> over the numbers and pulled power. Crap, I am fast. I am lined up and right >>> on the numbers but at 95 kts. I come and touchdown and bounced. Pulled >>> power to idles and settled down easily but fast at 90 and rolled out and >>> exited at Delta. The tower was clearing me back to the city hangars as I >>> was exiting the active. I taxi back and noticed the oil temps had decreased >>> but I don't recall how much, just noticed they were lower. >>> >>> I got back to my hangar and popped the door and shut her down. The >>> engine went silent without any hissing or gushing. >>> >>> I called my mom. >>> >>> I am mowing informing the world. >>> >>> I did a walk around and did not see anything missing. I am about to pull >>> the cowl and check things out. >>> >>> I did notice I did not develop a slight hand shaking untill after I >>> landed and exited the aircraft. ;-) Hey, how about that, it really is >>> an aircraft now. Ten years to the day following delivery. >>> >>> Thank you for your support. >>> >>> Christopher Barber, JD >>> Houston, Ellington Field (EFD) >>> Velocity N17010 >>> Turbo Rotary 13b >>> RWS Re-drive and engine computers >>> Dynon Skyview >>> Mistral intake >>> >>> >>> Sent from my iPhone 4 >>> >>> >> >> >> > > --14dae93990878e95f004c23b0b69 Content-Type: text/html; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
Think you are right on David...............With the 2.17 redrive=A0Chr= is's prop was turning about 3165 rpm at his
reported 6870 engine rpm............
=A0
Kelly Troyer=A0

On Mon, Jun 11, 2012 at 6:24 PM, Dave <da= vid.staten@gmail.com> wrote:
Tracy...

Chris is flying = from KEFD. Elevation is MAYBE 40 feet.. if that.. MSL.

my speculati= on is... based on his comment about rpm improving over static once he got m= oving, is that he was in a full fine pitch setting on his IVO.

Chris.. what we are saying is.. you were revving it pretty high in firs= t gear.. upshift/pitch the prop once you are moving and drop that rpm.. get= into high gear.

On 6/11/2012 8:25 AM, Tracy wrote:=20
FWIW, my observations on your data Chris.

= I forget what the field elevation is where you test but that engine RPM at = 127 kts and 24.7 MAP suggests a few things.=A0=A0 First, you probably shoul= d have more pitch in the prop, That rpm is high for that flight condition.= =A0 If you were on downwind with the intention of landing, you had a lot mo= re MP than needed.=A0 (24" Hg is standard setting for 75% cruise power= ).=A0=A0 Your field elevation is either very high or you didn't have a = throttle setting high enough to generate any boost so the waste gate spring= wasn't affecting anything. =A0 BTW, what was the throttle setting?=A0 = What MAP do you read at WOT?=A0

From the few flights I've done with the data logger on, it looks li= ke it takes at least 3 minutes for engine temperatures to stabilize after a= large change in flight conditions or power settings on my installation.=A0= I doubt things would even start to reach equilibrium on a single circuit o= f the field after takeoff.

BTW, send me your address for "The Button" .=A0 Same for any = other post first flight rotary builders who missed their buttons.=A0 I have= Bill Schertz & John Downing's so far.

Tracy

On Sun, Jun 10, 2012 at 2:26 PM, Chris Barber <cbarber@texasattorney.net> wrote:

I reviewed my very short and shaky video more.=A0 On Downwind, it shows = a GPS speed of 127 kts.=A0 The rotary is turning at 6870 RPM (up about 600= =A0RPM from static)=A0with a MAP of 24.7 (1.5 lb spring in the waste gate).= =A0 Coolant Temp was 187 degrees and oil temp was 224.=A0 Oil pressure and = Coolant pressure numbers could not be read but the "gauges" on th= e=A0Dynon were in the green.

=A0

A few minutes later I was able to get another=A0picture of my=A0engine d= ata taken as I was rolling off the active.=A0 These reading are about 30 se= conds after the wheels touch down.=A0 I know it is 30 seconds since I can h= ear the wheels touching the pavement since my=A0I-phone continued to record= even though it was face down in my=A0passenger seat.=A0 Engine RPM was 248= 9 and the coolant was down to 175.=A0 More interesting was that the oil tem= p had already dropped to 204 (20 degree drop).=A0 Yeah, still higher than I= like but a pretty big drop a matter of a few minutes. I do think oil takes= longer to read delta T's than coolant...but I could be damned wrong on= that.

=A0

Perhaps I just noticed the oil enough after a full power climb before it= had a chance to=A0adapt and cool a bit??

=A0
Chris=20
Congratulations Chris! I knew you'd do it this morning. Please con= sider yourself hugged by both of us.
What wastegate are you using with that spring?
=A0
=A0
Chrissi & Randi
www.CozyGirrrl.com
CG Prod= ucts, Custom Aircraft Hardware
Chairwomen, Sun-N-Fun Engine Workshop
=A0
In a message dated 6/9/2012 1:17:14 P.M. Central Daylight Time, cbarber@texasattor= ney.net writes:
Didn't notice MAP. Since I am concerned about detonation I have th= e weakest spring installed. It is 1.5 lbs.=A0=20


Sent from my iPhone 4

On Jun 9, 2012, at 12:42 PM, "Kelly Troyer" <keltro@gmail.com> wrote:

YAA-HOO Chris !!.................Congrats and keep the reports coming.= ...........Be interested in if your oil temp was just
hi power takeoff temp that would come down with reduced power and more= airspeed............Did you notice what
MAP was (amount of boost) ??......................<:)
=A0
Kelly Troyer

On Sat, Jun 9, 2012 at 12:24 PM, Bobby J. Hughes= <bhughes@qnsi.net> wrote:<= br>
Congrats Chris. =A0Be safe and keep the reports coming. Does your Dyno= n have ant data logging capability?

Bobby

Sent from my iPad

On Jun 9, 2012, at 11:53 AM, "Chris Barber" <cbarber@texasattorney.net> wrote:

June 9, 2002 - A trailer pulled up in front of a simple but comf= ortable home in Houston.=A0

Lots of trails, tribulations blood, time, money= , recreation, education, fun, friendships, anger, frustration, problem solv= ing, sweat, pondering etc....repeat and repeat again and again.=A0
Fast forward (it did go fast)

June 9, 2012=A0- Ellington Field - A lone, very nervous m= an arrives at the airport shortly before 0900 hrs. Pushes onto the ramp the= contraption composed of fiberglass, metal et al and the ingredients listed= above. He sits down and writes a simple holographic (hand written) will an= d short note with information to call "Mom" and work. Calls tower= to relay intent via the phone.

Preflights the contraption. Gets in, goes though bas= ic Checklist. Cranks up the engine, which fires right up at about 0920 hrs.= Taxi to Juliet. Calls tower to verify intent and to taxi to active, 35L. T= axis to Taxiway Echo. Checks temps. Pushing 195 with OAT reading 95 degrees= (geesh it is only about 0930 hrs).=A0

Cleared to take active and hold. Taxied out. Lined u= p castering nose wheel down center stripe. Cleared to take off. Added power= and engine smoothly ran up. Airspeed coming in. 30 kts...50 kts ....60 kts= , approximate rotation speed. Lots of runway (9000 ft).....hold it....70 kt= s....72 kts... Slight pull on the yoke....AIRBORNE!!! Leaped into ground ef= fect. Screw this, pulled back on yoke and I am climbing. Jiggled the yoke a= bit to verify=A0control authority.=A0

Climbed to about 400 feet and turned right pattern to crosswind. The D= ynon altitude and airspeed seem to be working. That's reassuring. Patte= rn altitude is only 600 feet and I was there already as I turned to downwin= d. Leveled off and noticed the clouds were lower than reported and appeared= on the ground. Also, noticed coolant temps had dropped to 190....but oil t= emps were flashing at me and had reached 225 (synthetic Royal Purple). Damn= . Ok. Fly the airplane, the oil is not at not a critical level. , but let&#= 39;s just finish the pattern and land. I grabbed my phone while on downwind= and attempted to record some data but while I can hear the engine the vide= o is =A0awful....uh, in my defense, I was a bit distracted and way more con= cerned with flying. I called the tower and informed them I was coming in. I= think they were looking out for me since as I turned to base I noticed the= fire department staged just off the runways threshold

I noted I was a bit far out on down wind so I stared easing over to tu= rn base. Wow. I really overshot it as I blew by the runway and had to use f= ull right rudder to get back to the runway. I wish I had had more rudder. I= n hindsight I think I was not using much aileron as I was cognoscente that = I had no idea of stall characteristics so I did not yet wish too strep a tu= rn. I was able to get over the runway and dump some altitude as I got over = the numbers and pulled power. Crap, I am fast. I am lined up and right on t= he numbers but at 95 kts. I come and touchdown and bounced. Pulled power to= idles and settled down easily but fast at 90 and rolled out and exited at = Delta. The tower was clearing me back to the city hangars as I was exiting = the active. I taxi back and noticed the oil temps had decreased but I don&#= 39;t recall how much, just noticed they were lower.

I got back to my hangar and popped the door and shut her down. The eng= ine went silent without any hissing or gushing.=A0

I called my mom.=A0

I am mowing informing the world.=A0

I did a walk around and did not see anything missing. I am about to pu= ll the cowl and check things out.=A0

I did notice I did not develop a slight hand shaking untill after I la= nded and exited the aircraft. ;-) Hey, how=A0about that, it really is= an aircraft now. Ten years to the day following delivery.=A0

Thank you for your support.=A0

Christopher Barber, JD
Houston, Ellington Field (EFD)
Velocity N17010
Turbo Rotary 13b
RWS Re-drive and engine computers
Dynon Skyview
Mistral intake


Sent from my iPhone 4

<= /div>








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