X-Virus-Scanned: clean according to Sophos on Logan.com Return-Path: Received: from qmta13.westchester.pa.mail.comcast.net ([76.96.59.243] verified) by logan.com (CommuniGate Pro SMTP 5.4.5) with ESMTP id 5591623 for flyrotary@lancaironline.net; Sun, 10 Jun 2012 15:58:04 -0400 Received-SPF: pass receiver=logan.com; client-ip=76.96.59.243; envelope-from=wschertz@comcast.net Received: from omta19.westchester.pa.mail.comcast.net ([76.96.62.98]) by qmta13.westchester.pa.mail.comcast.net with comcast id LhHn1j00127AodY5DjxWKt; Sun, 10 Jun 2012 19:57:30 +0000 Received: from [192.168.1.107] ([71.57.77.95]) by omta19.westchester.pa.mail.comcast.net with comcast id LjxV1j00q23NHuF3fjxWvh; Sun, 10 Jun 2012 19:57:30 +0000 Subject: Re: [FlyRotary] Re: First flight - Velocity N17010 References: From: William Schertz Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary=Apple-Mail-5CDC9C4C-AD32-4B83-B319-7D8DE0192910 X-Mailer: iPad Mail (9B206) In-Reply-To: Message-Id: Date: Sun, 10 Jun 2012 14:57:30 -0500 To: Rotary motors in aircraft Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Mime-Version: 1.0 (1.0) --Apple-Mail-5CDC9C4C-AD32-4B83-B319-7D8DE0192910 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Early on I had a sensor in the oil pan, and the temp of the oil pan oil was a= bout 40-50 deg hotter than that going to engine after cooler Sent from my iPad On Jun 10, 2012, at 2:52 PM, Chris Barber wrote:= > Ok, here is new information to me. I posted on the Velocity list regardin= g my oil temps and was informed that oil temperature should be measured comi= ng OUT of the coolers, not out of the engine like I have set up.=20 > This is just the opposite from the way the factory has the coolant plumbin= g run as the stock coolant temperature sensor is near the thermostat housing= as it comes out of the engine and into the radiator. I do not know where t= he stock oil sensor is located (if I did, I now forget) but Al G. and John D= ibble state the temp should be taken for oil coming out of the coolers. Hec= k, if this is the case, my oil may be quite a bit cooler than I was thinking= . Opinions please. It should not be too difficult to add a sensor to where= the oil enters the engine. Don't know if the Delta will be much, but perha= ps enough.... > What say Ye? > Chris > From: Chris Barber > Sent: Sunday, June 10, 2012 1:26 PM > To: Rotary motors in aircraft > Subject: RE: [FlyRotary] Re: First flight - Velocity N17010 >=20 > I reviewed my very short and shaky video more. On Downwind, it shows a GP= S speed of 127 kts. The rotary is turning at 6870 RPM (up about 600 RPM fro= m static) with a MAP of 24.7 (1.5 lb spring in the waste gate). Coolant Tem= p was 187 degrees and oil temp was 224. Oil pressure and Coolant pressure n= umbers could not be read but the "gauges" on the Dynon were in the green. > =20 > A few minutes later I was able to get another picture of my engine data ta= ken as I was rolling off the active. These reading are about 30 seconds aft= er the wheels touch down. I know it is 30 seconds since I can hear the whee= ls touching the pavement since my I-phone continued to record even though it= was face down in my passenger seat. Engine RPM was 2489 and the coolant wa= s down to 175. More interesting was that the oil temp had already dropped t= o 204 (20 degree drop). Yeah, still higher than I like but a pretty big dro= p a matter of a few minutes. I do think oil takes longer to read delta T's t= han coolant...but I could be damned wrong on that. > =20 > Perhaps I just noticed the oil enough after a full power climb before it h= ad a chance to adapt and cool a bit?? > =20 > Chris > From: Rotary motors in aircraft [flyrotary@lancaironline.net] on behalf of= CozyGirrrl@aol.com [CozyGirrrl@aol.com] > Sent: Saturday, June 09, 2012 11:52 PM > To: Rotary motors in aircraft > Subject: [FlyRotary] Re: First flight - Velocity N17010 >=20 > Congratulations Chris! I knew you'd do it this morning. Please consider yo= urself hugged by both of us. > What wastegate are you using with that spring? > =20 > =20 > Chrissi & Randi > www.CozyGirrrl.com > CG Products, Custom Aircraft Hardware > Chairwomen, Sun-N-Fun Engine Workshop > =20 > In a message dated 6/9/2012 1:17:14 P.M. Central Daylight Time, cbarber@te= xasattorney.net writes: > Didn't notice MAP. Since I am concerned about detonation I have the weakes= t spring installed. It is 1.5 lbs.=20 >=20 > Sent from my iPhone 4 >=20 > On Jun 9, 2012, at 12:42 PM, "Kelly Troyer" wrote: >=20 >> YAA-HOO Chris !!.................Congrats and keep the reports coming....= ........Be interested in if your oil temp was just >> hi power takeoff temp that would come down with reduced power and more ai= rspeed............Did you notice what >> MAP was (amount of boost) ??......................<:) >> =20 >> Kelly Troyer >>=20 >> On Sat, Jun 9, 2012 at 12:24 PM, Bobby J. Hughes wrote= : >> Congrats Chris. Be safe and keep the reports coming. Does your Dynon hav= e ant data logging capability? >>=20 >> Bobby >>=20 >> Sent from my iPad >>=20 >> On Jun 9, 2012, at 11:53 AM, "Chris Barber" w= rote: >>=20 >>> June 9, 2002 - A trailer pulled up in front of a simple but comfortable h= ome in Houston.=20 >>>=20 >>> Lots of trails, tribulations blood, time, money, recreation, education, f= un, friendships, anger, frustration, problem solving, sweat, pondering etc..= ..repeat and repeat again and again.=20 >>>=20 >>> Fast forward (it did go fast) >>>=20 >>> June 9, 2012 - Ellington Field - A lone, very nervous man arrives at the= airport shortly before 0900 hrs. Pushes onto the ramp the contraption compo= sed of fiberglass, metal et al and the ingredients listed above. He sits dow= n and writes a simple holographic (hand written) will and short note with in= formation to call "Mom" and work. Calls tower to relay intent via the phone.= >>>=20 >>> Preflights the contraption. Gets in, goes though basic Checklist. Cranks= up the engine, which fires right up at about 0920 hrs. Taxi to Juliet. Call= s tower to verify intent and to taxi to active, 35L. Taxis to Taxiway Echo. C= hecks temps. Pushing 195 with OAT reading 95 degrees (geesh it is only about= 0930 hrs).=20 >>>=20 >>> Cleared to take active and hold. Taxied out. Lined up castering nose whe= el down center stripe. Cleared to take off. Added power and engine smoothly r= an up. Airspeed coming in. 30 kts...50 kts ....60 kts, approximate rotation s= peed. Lots of runway (9000 ft).....hold it....70 kts....72 kts... Slight pul= l on the yoke....AIRBORNE!!! Leaped into ground effect. Screw this, pulled b= ack on yoke and I am climbing. Jiggled the yoke a bit to verify control auth= ority.=20 >>>=20 >>> Climbed to about 400 feet and turned right pattern to crosswind. The Dyn= on altitude and airspeed seem to be working. That's reassuring. Pattern alti= tude is only 600 feet and I was there already as I turned to downwind. Level= ed off and noticed the clouds were lower than reported and appeared on the g= round. Also, noticed coolant temps had dropped to 190....but oil temps were f= lashing at me and had reached 225 (synthetic Royal Purple). Damn. Ok. Fly th= e airplane, the oil is not at not a critical level. , but let's just finish t= he pattern and land. I grabbed my phone while on downwind and attempted to r= ecord some data but while I can hear the engine the video is awful....uh, i= n my defense, I was a bit distracted and way more concerned with flying. I c= alled the tower and informed them I was coming in. I think they were looking= out for me since as I turned to base I noticed the fire department staged j= ust off the runways threshold >>>=20 >>> I noted I was a bit far out on down wind so I stared easing over to turn= base. Wow. I really overshot it as I blew by the runway and had to use full= right rudder to get back to the runway. I wish I had had more rudder. In hi= ndsight I think I was not using much aileron as I was cognoscente that I had= no idea of stall characteristics so I did not yet wish too strep a turn. I w= as able to get over the runway and dump some altitude as I got over the numb= ers and pulled power. Crap, I am fast. I am lined up and right on the number= s but at 95 kts. I come and touchdown and bounced. Pulled power to idles and= settled down easily but fast at 90 and rolled out and exited at Delta. The t= ower was clearing me back to the city hangars as I was exiting the active. I= taxi back and noticed the oil temps had decreased but I don't recall how mu= ch, just noticed they were lower. >>>=20 >>> I got back to my hangar and popped the door and shut her down. The engin= e went silent without any hissing or gushing.=20 >>>=20 >>> I called my mom.=20 >>>=20 >>> I am mowing informing the world.=20 >>>=20 >>> I did a walk around and did not see anything missing. I am about to pull= the cowl and check things out.=20 >>>=20 >>> I did notice I did not develop a slight hand shaking untill after I land= ed and exited the aircraft. ;-) Hey, how about that, it really is an aircraf= t now. Ten years to the day following delivery.=20 >>>=20 >>> Thank you for your support.=20 >>>=20 >>> Christopher Barber, JD >>> Houston, Ellington Field (EFD) >>> Velocity N17010 >>> Turbo Rotary 13b >>> RWS Re-drive and engine computers >>> Dynon Skyview >>> Mistral intake >>>=20 >>>=20 >>> Sent from my iPhone 4 >>>=20 >>=20 >>=20 >>=20 --Apple-Mail-5CDC9C4C-AD32-4B83-B319-7D8DE0192910 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Type: text/html; charset=utf-8
Early on I had a sensor in the oil pan, and the temp of the oil pan oil was about 40-50 deg hotter than that going to engine after cooler

Sent from my iPad

On Jun 10, 2012, at 2:52 PM, Chris Barber <cbarber@texasattorney.net> wrote:

Ok, here is new information to me.  I posted on the Velocity list regarding my oil temps and was informed that oil temperature should be measured coming OUT of the coolers, not out of the engine like I have set up. 

This is just the opposite from the way the factory has the coolant plumbing run as the stock coolant temperature sensor is near the thermostat housing as it comes out of the engine and into the radiator.  I do not know where the stock oil sensor is located (if I did, I now forget) but Al G. and John Dibble state the temp should be taken for oil coming out of the coolers.  Heck, if this is the case, my oil may be quite a bit cooler than I was thinking.  Opinions please.  It should not be too difficult to add a sensor to where the oil enters the engine.  Don't know if the Delta will be much, but perhaps enough....

What say Ye?

Chris

From: Chris Barber
Sent: Sunday, June 10, 2012 1:26 PM
To: Rotary motors in aircraft
Subject: RE: [FlyRotary] Re: First flight - Velocity N17010

I reviewed my very short and shaky video more.  On Downwind, it shows a GPS speed of 127 kts.  The rotary is turning at 6870 RPM (up about 600 RPM from static) with a MAP of 24.7 (1.5 lb spring in the waste gate).  Coolant Temp was 187 degrees and oil temp was 224.  Oil pressure and Coolant pressure numbers could not be read but the "gauges" on the Dynon were in the green.

 

A few minutes later I was able to get another picture of my engine data taken as I was rolling off the active.  These reading are about 30 seconds after the wheels touch down.  I know it is 30 seconds since I can hear the wheels touching the pavement since my I-phone continued to record even though it was face down in my passenger seat.  Engine RPM was 2489 and the coolant was down to 175.  More interesting was that the oil temp had already dropped to 204 (20 degree drop).  Yeah, still higher than I like but a pretty big drop a matter of a few minutes. I do think oil takes longer to read delta T's than coolant...but I could be damned wrong on that.

 

Perhaps I just noticed the oil enough after a full power climb before it had a chance to adapt and cool a bit??

 
Chris
From: Rotary motors in aircraft [flyrotary@lancaironline.net] on behalf of CozyGirrrl@aol.com [CozyGirrrl@aol.com]
Sent: Saturday, June 09, 2012 11:52 PM
To: Rotary motors in aircraft
Subject: [FlyRotary] Re: First flight - Velocity N17010

Congratulations Chris! I knew you'd do it this morning. Please consider yourself hugged by both of us.
What wastegate are you using with that spring?
 
 
Chrissi & Randi
www.CozyGirrrl.com
CG Products, Custom Aircraft Hardware
Chairwomen, Sun-N-Fun Engine Workshop
 
In a message dated 6/9/2012 1:17:14 P.M. Central Daylight Time, cbarber@texasattorney.net writes:
Didn't notice MAP. Since I am concerned about detonation I have the weakest spring installed. It is 1.5 lbs. 

Sent from my iPhone 4

On Jun 9, 2012, at 12:42 PM, "Kelly Troyer" <keltro@gmail.com> wrote:

YAA-HOO Chris !!.................Congrats and keep the reports coming............Be interested in if your oil temp was just
hi power takeoff temp that would come down with reduced power and more airspeed............Did you notice what
MAP was (amount of boost) ??......................<:)
 
Kelly Troyer

On Sat, Jun 9, 2012 at 12:24 PM, Bobby J. Hughes <bhughes@qnsi.net> wrote:
Congrats Chris.  Be safe and keep the reports coming. Does your Dynon have ant data logging capability?

Bobby

Sent from my iPad

On Jun 9, 2012, at 11:53 AM, "Chris Barber" <cbarber@texasattorney.net> wrote:

June 9, 2002 - A trailer pulled up in front of a simple but comfortable home in Houston. 

Lots of trails, tribulations blood, time, money, recreation, education, fun, friendships, anger, frustration, problem solving, sweat, pondering etc....repeat and repeat again and again. 

Fast forward (it did go fast)

June 9, 2012 - Ellington Field - A lone, very nervous man arrives at the airport shortly before 0900 hrs. Pushes onto the ramp the contraption composed of fiberglass, metal et al and the ingredients listed above. He sits down and writes a simple holographic (hand written) will and short note with information to call "Mom" and work. Calls tower to relay intent via the phone.

Preflights the contraption. Gets in, goes though basic Checklist. Cranks up the engine, which fires right up at about 0920 hrs. Taxi to Juliet. Calls tower to verify intent and to taxi to active, 35L. Taxis to Taxiway Echo. Checks temps. Pushing 195 with OAT reading 95 degrees (geesh it is only about 0930 hrs). 

Cleared to take active and hold. Taxied out. Lined up castering nose wheel down center stripe. Cleared to take off. Added power and engine smoothly ran up. Airspeed coming in. 30 kts...50 kts ....60 kts, approximate rotation speed. Lots of runway (9000 ft).....hold it....70 kts....72 kts... Slight pull on the yoke....AIRBORNE!!! Leaped into ground effect. Screw this, pulled back on yoke and I am climbing. Jiggled the yoke a bit to verify control authority. 

Climbed to about 400 feet and turned right pattern to crosswind. The Dynon altitude and airspeed seem to be working. That's reassuring. Pattern altitude is only 600 feet and I was there already as I turned to downwind. Leveled off and noticed the clouds were lower than reported and appeared on the ground. Also, noticed coolant temps had dropped to 190....but oil temps were flashing at me and had reached 225 (synthetic Royal Purple). Damn. Ok. Fly the airplane, the oil is not at not a critical level. , but let's just finish the pattern and land. I grabbed my phone while on downwind and attempted to record some data but while I can hear the engine the video is  awful....uh, in my defense, I was a bit distracted and way more concerned with flying. I called the tower and informed them I was coming in. I think they were looking out for me since as I turned to base I noticed the fire department staged just off the runways threshold

I noted I was a bit far out on down wind so I stared easing over to turn base. Wow. I really overshot it as I blew by the runway and had to use full right rudder to get back to the runway. I wish I had had more rudder. In hindsight I think I was not using much aileron as I was cognoscente that I had no idea of stall characteristics so I did not yet wish too strep a turn. I was able to get over the runway and dump some altitude as I got over the numbers and pulled power. Crap, I am fast. I am lined up and right on the numbers but at 95 kts. I come and touchdown and bounced. Pulled power to idles and settled down easily but fast at 90 and rolled out and exited at Delta. The tower was clearing me back to the city hangars as I was exiting the active. I taxi back and noticed the oil temps had decreased but I don't recall how much, just noticed they were lower.

I got back to my hangar and popped the door and shut her down. The engine went silent without any hissing or gushing. 

I called my mom. 

I am mowing informing the world. 

I did a walk around and did not see anything missing. I am about to pull the cowl and check things out. 

I did notice I did not develop a slight hand shaking untill after I landed and exited the aircraft. ;-) Hey, how about that, it really is an aircraft now. Ten years to the day following delivery. 

Thank you for your support. 

Christopher Barber, JD
Houston, Ellington Field (EFD)
Velocity N17010
Turbo Rotary 13b
RWS Re-drive and engine computers
Dynon Skyview
Mistral intake


Sent from my iPhone 4




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