X-Virus-Scanned: clean according to Sophos on Logan.com Return-Path: Received: from fmailhost01.isp.att.net ([207.115.11.51] verified) by logan.com (CommuniGate Pro SMTP 5.4.4) with ESMTP id 5474933 for flyrotary@lancaironline.net; Mon, 09 Apr 2012 23:26:46 -0400 Received-SPF: none receiver=logan.com; client-ip=207.115.11.51; envelope-from=bbradburry@bellsouth.net Received: from desktop (adsl-98-85-145-87.mco.bellsouth.net[98.85.145.87]) by isp.att.net (frfwmhc01) with SMTP id <20120410032608H0100gcofie>; Tue, 10 Apr 2012 03:26:08 +0000 X-Originating-IP: [98.85.145.87] From: "Bill Bradburry" To: "'Rotary motors in aircraft'" References: In-Reply-To: Subject: RE: [FlyRotary] Re: OMP Plumbing Date: Mon, 9 Apr 2012 23:26:10 -0400 Message-ID: <625A9539E0134F53877587CE61A96629@Desktop> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="----=_NextPart_000_0031_01CD16A8.25FD0C70" X-Mailer: Microsoft Office Outlook 11 Thread-Index: Ac0WgcvVxxsjJVrsQMW3/x5F1g/acgAR3Huw X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.0.6002.18463 This is a multi-part message in MIME format. ------=_NextPart_000_0031_01CD16A8.25FD0C70 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit It destroys all the plastic and rubber parts on my lawn equipment just about every year. The plastic primer bulb and the yellow fuel lines don't hold up to it. Your aluminum tanks are probably ok but the sealer is another matter. Bill B _____ From: Rotary motors in aircraft [mailto:flyrotary@lancaironline.net] On Behalf Of Thomas Giddings Sent: Monday, April 09, 2012 2:51 PM To: Rotary motors in aircraft Subject: [FlyRotary] Re: OMP Plumbing I am curious if you folks think auto fuel can cause problems with aluminum tanks and sealer. KIND REGARDS Thomas Giddings n360tg@earthlink.net 727 858 1772 On Apr 9, 2012, at 2:28 PM, Tracy wrote: I understand why that would motivate you to go OMP Mark! Not that I know the bottom line truth to the auto fuel/ fiberglass nightmares that have struck so many builders lately but the latest theory I heard is that it is not the Ethanol that is eating the tanks but the much advertised fuel injector / valve cleaner additives that many oil companies are putting in the gasoline. Who knows? Tracy Sent from my iPad On Apr 9, 2012, at 12:38 PM, Mark Steitle wrote: Tracy, OK, here's the rest of the story... I have come to believe the Lancair wing fuel tank design may have been partly responsible for the damage to my apex seals. Lancair uses a wet wing and there are ribs forming 4 separate fuel bays per wing. The ribs have "mouse holes" to allow fuel to pass from section to section. Years ago, when I used to run mogas, I used a fuel trailer and would add 2-stroke when filling. It would be well mixed by the time I pumped it into my a/c tanks. I was forced to switch to 100LL when the beaurocrats started blending ethanol in all auto fuels (ethanol is non-compatible with the Jeffco adhesives). I now have to fuel at the airport(s), so the process is to pour the 2-stroke into the wing as I pump the fuel. This isn't easy to do and I seldom finish pouring the oil at the same time the tank is reaching full. Pouring oil while fueling surely helped, but in retrospect I suspect it still didn't mix thoroughly due to the ribs in the tanks. I can't figure a way to get the fuel thoroughly mixed, so I decided to switch over to the OMP system. Maybe the answer is to do both. I can run the OMP (with 3-lines) and also add some additional 2-stroke (1/2 oz./gallon) to the wing tanks. Not perfect, but much better than the alternative. Mark On 4/9/12, Tracy wrote: Hope I didn't give the impression I was an expert on the Mazda oil injection system. I only remember where the 4 lines went on the 13B from disassembling so many of them. Only 2 of the ports (secondaries I believe) got the oil lines so only 4 needed. Don't think I've ever seen a 20B OMP setup (my 20B engine was built from new parts). I can't imagine why there are 4 lines on a 20B setup. I think there are only 2 lines used on 3rd gen 13Bs. Only the rotor housings are fed, not the manifold. Since the 20B is essentially a 3rd gen engine, I would have thought it would have a similar setup with 3 lines (one to each rotor housing). I'm still of the opinion that you can't do better (from a functional standpoint) than premixing the oil so I've never played with the injection. It just isn't practical for most people in car use. That's why 95%+ of OMP adapters are purchased by car guys. Tracy PS: I thought I sent that updated EC2 installation guide to you before I left home (I'm in Colorado until early May) The main difference from last one you have is that Both A & B are programmed when running on A controller. When using B, only B is affected by programming changes. Sent from my iPad On Apr 9, 2012, at 10:12 AM, Mark Steitle wrote: Tracy, How should I plumb the 4 lines for the 3-rotor. From your explanation, it seems it should have 6 lines (2 per rotor)? Even the 20b OMP only has 4-ports. Should I split the 4th line into three separate lines? Do you know of anyplace where I could read about how OMPs are connected from the factory? Thanks, Mark P.S. Were you going to email me a copy of the updated EC-2 manual? On 4/9/12, Tracy wrote: Two into the rotor housings, two into the intake manifold just upstream of the ports in the block. Tracy Sent from my iPad On Apr 9, 2012, at 5:42 AM, Mark Steitle wrote: Steve, that's why I'm asking the experts on this. I'm still trying to figure this out. The older 13b OMP has 4 ports. So did the 20B OMP, with only three lines. I was planning on not using the 4th port. Where does the 4th line go to on the 13b setup? Mark On Sun, Apr 8, 2012 at 8:29 PM, Steven W. Boese wrote: Mark, Since the OMP 's I've seen are set up with 4 oil lines and intended for a two rotor engine, how do you intend to adapt it to the three rotor engine in terms of amount of oil metered and how it is distributed? Steve From: Mark Steitle Sent: Saturday, April 07, 2012 8:10 PM To: Rotary motors in aircraft Subject: [FlyRotary] OMP Plumbing Is anyone running an oil metering pump (OMP) that can help me figure out how the lines should be connected. I'm planning on using the Mazda banjo fittings to hook up to the OMP, but what do I do with the check valves. Do you connect the check valves to a vacuum source or just block them off? Will the system work properly if I plug the check valves? I plan on locking the lever in the full open position. Will this work for a/c use? I'll be using Richard Sohn's adapter with a 1 gallon reservoir filled with 2-stroke oil. Mark S. -- Homepage: http://www.flyrotary.com/ Archive and UnSub: http://mail.lancaironline.net:81/lists/flyrotary/List.html -- Homepage: http://www.flyrotary.com/ Archive and UnSub: http://mail.lancaironline.net:81/lists/flyrotary/List.html -- Homepage: http://www.flyrotary.com/ Archive and UnSub: http://mail.lancaironline.net:81/lists/flyrotary/List.html -- Homepage: http://www.flyrotary.com/ Archive and UnSub: http://mail.lancaironline.net:81/lists/flyrotary/List.html ------=_NextPart_000_0031_01CD16A8.25FD0C70 Content-Type: text/html; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable

It destroys all the plastic and = rubber parts on my lawn equipment just about every year.  The plastic = primer bulb and the yellow fuel lines don’t hold up to it.  =

 

Your aluminum tanks are probably ok = but the sealer is another matter.

 

Bill B

 

From: = Rotary motors in aircraft [mailto:flyrotary@lancaironline.net] On Behalf Of Thomas Giddings
Sent: Monday, April 09, = 2012 2:51 PM
To: Rotary motors in aircraft
Subject: [FlyRotary] Re: = OMP Plumbing

 

I am curious if you folks think auto fuel can cause problems = with aluminum tanks and sealer.

KIND = REGARDS

Thomas = Giddings

727 858 = 1772

 <= /o:p>

 

 

On Apr 9, 2012, at 2:28 PM, Tracy wrote:



I understand why that would motivate you to go OMP Mark!

Not that I know the bottom line truth to the auto fuel/ fiberglass = nightmares that have struck so many builders lately but the latest theory I heard = is that it is not the Ethanol that is eating the tanks but the much advertised = fuel injector / valve cleaner additives that many oil companies are putting = in the gasoline.   Who knows?

Tracy
Sent from my iPad

On Apr 9, 2012, at 12:38 PM, Mark Steitle <msteitle@gmail.com> wrote:


Tracy,

 

OK, here's the rest of the story...

 

I have come to believe the Lancair wing fuel tank design may = have been

partly responsible for the damage to my apex seals. =  Lancair uses a

wet wing and there are ribs forming 4 separate fuel bays per = wing.

The ribs have "mouse holes" to allow fuel to pass from section to

section.  Years ago, when I used to run mogas, I used a = fuel trailer

and would add 2-stroke when filling.  It would be well = mixed by the

time I pumped it into my a/c tanks.  I was forced to switch = to 100LL

when the beaurocrats started blending ethanol in all auto = fuels

(ethanol is non-compatible with the Jeffco adhesives).  I = now have to

fuel at the airport(s), so the process is to pour the 2-stroke = into

the wing as I pump the fuel.  This isn't easy to do and I = seldom

finish pouring the oil at the same time the tank is reaching = full.

Pouring oil while fueling surely helped, but in retrospect I = suspect

it still didn't mix thoroughly due to the ribs in the tanks. =  I can't

figure a way to get the fuel thoroughly mixed, so I decided to = switch

over to the OMP system.

 

Maybe the answer is to do both.  I can run the OMP (with = 3-lines) and

also add some additional 2-stroke (1/2 oz./gallon) to the wing = tanks.

Not perfect, but much better than the = alternative.

 

Mark

 

 

On 4/9/12, Tracy <rwstracy@gmail.com> = wrote:

Hope I didn't give the impression I was an expert on the Mazda = oil injection

system.   I only remember where the 4 lines went on = the 13B from

disassembling so many of them.   Only 2 of the ports (secondaries I believe)

got the oil lines so only 4 needed.    Don't = think I've ever seen a 20B OMP

setup  (my 20B engine was built from new parts). =   I can't imagine why there

are 4 lines on a 20B setup.   I think there are only 2 = lines used on 3rd gen

13Bs.  Only the rotor housings are fed, not the manifold.   Since the 20B is

essentially a 3rd gen engine,  I would have thought it = would have a similar

setup with 3 lines (one to each rotor = housing).

 

I'm still of the opinion that you can't do better (from a = functional

standpoint) than premixing the oil so I've never played with the injection.

It just isn't practical for most people in car use. =   That's why 95%+ of OMP

adapters are purchased by car guys.

 

Tracy

 

PS:   I thought I sent that updated EC2 installation = guide to you before I

left home (I'm in Colorado until early May)   The main difference from = last

one you have is that Both A & B are programmed when running = on A controller.

When using B, only B is affected by programming = changes.

 

Sent from my iPad

 

On Apr 9, 2012, at 10:12 AM, Mark Steitle <msteitle@gmail.com> = wrote:

 

Tracy,

 

How should I plumb the 4 lines for the 3-rotor.  From = your

explanation, it seems it should have 6 lines (2 per rotor)? =  Even the

20b OMP only has 4-ports. Should I split the 4th line into = three

separate lines?  Do you know of anyplace where I could read = about how

OMPs are connected from the = factory?

 

Thanks,

Mark

 

P.S.  Were you going to email me a copy of the updated EC-2 manual?

 

 

On 4/9/12, Tracy <rwstracy@gmail.com> = wrote:

Two into the rotor housings, two into the intake manifold just = upstream

of

the ports in the block.

 

Tracy

 

Sent from my iPad

 

On Apr 9, 2012, at 5:42 AM, Mark Steitle <msteitle@gmail.com> = wrote:

 

Steve, that's why I'm asking the experts on this.  I'm = still trying to

figure this out.  The older 13b OMP has 4 ports.  So = did the 20B OMP,

with

only three lines.  I was planning on not using the 4th = port.  Where does

the 4th line go to on the 13b = setup?

 

Mark

 

On Sun, Apr 8, 2012 at 8:29 PM, Steven W. Boese <SBoese@uwyo.edu> = wrote:

Mark,

 

 

 

Since the OMP 's I've seen are set up with 4 oil lines and = intended for

a

two rotor engine, how do you intend to adapt it to the three = rotor

engine

in terms of amount of oil metered and how it is = distributed?

 

 

 

Steve

 

 

 

From: Mark Steitle

 

Sent: Saturday, April 07, 2012 8:10 = PM

To: Rotary motors in = aircraft

Subject: [FlyRotary] OMP Plumbing

 

Is anyone running an oil metering pump (OMP) that can help me = figure

out

how the lines should be connected.  I'm planning on using = the Mazda

banjo fittings to hook up to the OMP, but what do I do with the = check

valves.  Do you connect the check valves to a vacuum source = or just

block them off?  Will the system work properly if I plug = the check

valves?  I plan on locking the lever in the full open = position.  Will

this work for a/c use?  I'll be using Richard Sohn's = adapter with a 1

gallon reservoir filled with 2-stroke = oil.

 

Mark S.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

--

Homepage:  http://www.flyrotary.com/

Archive and UnSub:

http:= //mail.lancaironline.net:81/lists/flyrotary/List.html

 

--

Homepage:  http://www.flyrotary.com/

Archive and UnSub:

http:= //mail.lancaironline.net:81/lists/flyrotary/List.html

 

 

--

Homepage:  http://www.flyrotary.com/

Archive and UnSub:   http:= //mail.lancaironline.net:81/lists/flyrotary/List.html


--
Homepage:  http://www.flyrotary.com/
Archive and UnSub:   http:= //mail.lancaironline.net:81/lists/flyrotary/List.html

 

------=_NextPart_000_0031_01CD16A8.25FD0C70--