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[166.248.67.78]) by mx.google.com with ESMTPS id hm8sm25561583qab.0.2012.04.09.13.33.26 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=OTHER); Mon, 09 Apr 2012 13:33:28 -0700 (PDT) Subject: Re: [FlyRotary] Re: OMP Plumbing References: From: Tracy Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary=Apple-Mail-20--786561851 In-Reply-To: Message-Id: <5B34268C-9C4E-4E93-AF29-CE0199207996@gmail.com> Date: Mon, 9 Apr 2012 16:19:03 -0400 To: Rotary motors in aircraft Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Mime-Version: 1.0 (iPad Mail 8F191) X-Mailer: iPad Mail (8F191) --Apple-Mail-20--786561851 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii No alcohol problems in my experience with aluminum tanks sealed with Proseal= (a polysulfide sealant) Been running auto fuel since 1994. =20 Tracy Sent from my iPad On Apr 9, 2012, at 2:50 PM, Thomas Giddings wrote: > I am curious if you folks think auto fuel can cause problems with aluminum= tanks and sealer. > KIND REGARDS > Thomas Giddings > n360tg@earthlink.net > 727 858 1772 >=20 >=20 >=20 > On Apr 9, 2012, at 2:28 PM, Tracy wrote: >=20 >> I understand why that would motivate you to go OMP Mark! >>=20 >> Not that I know the bottom line truth to the auto fuel/ fiberglass nightm= ares that have struck so many builders lately but the latest theory I heard i= s that it is not the Ethanol that is eating the tanks but the much advertise= d fuel injector / valve cleaner additives that many oil companies are puttin= g in the gasoline. Who knows? >>=20 >> Tracy >> Sent from my iPad >>=20 >> On Apr 9, 2012, at 12:38 PM, Mark Steitle wrote: >>=20 >>> Tracy, >>>=20 >>> OK, here's the rest of the story... >>>=20 >>> I have come to believe the Lancair wing fuel tank design may have been >>> partly responsible for the damage to my apex seals. Lancair uses a >>> wet wing and there are ribs forming 4 separate fuel bays per wing. >>> The ribs have "mouse holes" to allow fuel to pass from section to >>> section. Years ago, when I used to run mogas, I used a fuel trailer >>> and would add 2-stroke when filling. It would be well mixed by the >>> time I pumped it into my a/c tanks. I was forced to switch to 100LL >>> when the beaurocrats started blending ethanol in all auto fuels >>> (ethanol is non-compatible with the Jeffco adhesives). I now have to >>> fuel at the airport(s), so the process is to pour the 2-stroke into >>> the wing as I pump the fuel. This isn't easy to do and I seldom >>> finish pouring the oil at the same time the tank is reaching full. >>> Pouring oil while fueling surely helped, but in retrospect I suspect >>> it still didn't mix thoroughly due to the ribs in the tanks. I can't >>> figure a way to get the fuel thoroughly mixed, so I decided to switch >>> over to the OMP system. >>>=20 >>> Maybe the answer is to do both. I can run the OMP (with 3-lines) and >>> also add some additional 2-stroke (1/2 oz./gallon) to the wing tanks. >>> Not perfect, but much better than the alternative. >>>=20 >>> Mark >>>=20 >>>=20 >>> On 4/9/12, Tracy wrote: >>>> Hope I didn't give the impression I was an expert on the Mazda oil inje= ction >>>> system. I only remember where the 4 lines went on the 13B from >>>> disassembling so many of them. Only 2 of the ports (secondaries I bel= ieve) >>>> got the oil lines so only 4 needed. Don't think I've ever seen a 20B= OMP >>>> setup (my 20B engine was built from new parts). I can't imagine why t= here >>>> are 4 lines on a 20B setup. I think there are only 2 lines used on 3r= d gen >>>> 13Bs. Only the rotor housings are fed, not the manifold. Since the 2= 0B is >>>> essentially a 3rd gen engine, I would have thought it would have a sim= ilar >>>> setup with 3 lines (one to each rotor housing). >>>>=20 >>>> I'm still of the opinion that you can't do better (from a functional >>>> standpoint) than premixing the oil so I've never played with the inject= ion. >>>> It just isn't practical for most people in car use. That's why 95%+ o= f OMP >>>> adapters are purchased by car guys. >>>>=20 >>>> Tracy >>>>=20 >>>> PS: I thought I sent that updated EC2 installation guide to you befor= e I >>>> left home (I'm in Colorado until early May) The main difference from l= ast >>>> one you have is that Both A & B are programmed when running on A contro= ller. >>>> When using B, only B is affected by programming changes. >>>>=20 >>>> Sent from my iPad >>>>=20 >>>> On Apr 9, 2012, at 10:12 AM, Mark Steitle wrote: >>>>=20 >>>>> Tracy, >>>>>=20 >>>>> How should I plumb the 4 lines for the 3-rotor. =46rom your >>>>> explanation, it seems it should have 6 lines (2 per rotor)? Even the >>>>> 20b OMP only has 4-ports. Should I split the 4th line into three >>>>> separate lines? Do you know of anyplace where I could read about how >>>>> OMPs are connected from the factory? >>>>>=20 >>>>> Thanks, >>>>> Mark >>>>>=20 >>>>> P.S. Were you going to email me a copy of the updated EC-2 manual? >>>>>=20 >>>>>=20 >>>>> On 4/9/12, Tracy wrote: >>>>>> Two into the rotor housings, two into the intake manifold just upstre= am >>>>>> of >>>>>> the ports in the block. >>>>>>=20 >>>>>> Tracy >>>>>>=20 >>>>>> Sent from my iPad >>>>>>=20 >>>>>> On Apr 9, 2012, at 5:42 AM, Mark Steitle wrote: >>>>>>=20 >>>>>>> Steve, that's why I'm asking the experts on this. I'm still trying t= o >>>>>>> figure this out. The older 13b OMP has 4 ports. So did the 20B OMP= , >>>>>>> with >>>>>>> only three lines. I was planning on not using the 4th port. Where d= oes >>>>>>> the 4th line go to on the 13b setup? >>>>>>>=20 >>>>>>> Mark >>>>>>>=20 >>>>>>> On Sun, Apr 8, 2012 at 8:29 PM, Steven W. Boese wr= ote: >>>>>>> Mark, >>>>>>>=20 >>>>>>>=20 >>>>>>>=20 >>>>>>> Since the OMP 's I've seen are set up with 4 oil lines and intended f= or >>>>>>> a >>>>>>> two rotor engine, how do you intend to adapt it to the three rotor >>>>>>> engine >>>>>>> in terms of amount of oil metered and how it is distributed? >>>>>>>=20 >>>>>>>=20 >>>>>>>=20 >>>>>>> Steve >>>>>>>=20 >>>>>>>=20 >>>>>>>=20 >>>>>>> From: Mark Steitle >>>>>>>>=20 >>>>>>>>> Sent: Saturday, April 07, 2012 8:10 PM >>>>>>>>> To: Rotary motors in aircraft >>>>>>>>> Subject: [FlyRotary] OMP Plumbing >>>>>>>>>=20 >>>>>>>>> Is anyone running an oil metering pump (OMP) that can help me figu= re >>>>>>>>> out >>>>>>>>> how the lines should be connected. I'm planning on using the Mazd= a >>>>>>>>> banjo fittings to hook up to the OMP, but what do I do with the ch= eck >>>>>>>>> valves. Do you connect the check valves to a vacuum source or jus= t >>>>>>>>> block them off? Will the system work properly if I plug the check= >>>>>>>>> valves? I plan on locking the lever in the full open position. W= ill >>>>>>>>> this work for a/c use? I'll be using Richard Sohn's adapter with a= 1 >>>>>>>>> gallon reservoir filled with 2-stroke oil. >>>>>>>>>=20 >>>>>>>>> Mark S. >>>>>>>>>=20 >>>>>>>>>=20 >>>>>>>>>=20 >>>>>>>>=20 >>>>>>>>=20 >>>>>>>=20 >>>>>>>=20 >>>>>>=20 >>>>>=20 >>>>> -- >>>>> Homepage: http://www.flyrotary.com/ >>>>> Archive and UnSub: >>>>> http://mail.lancaironline.net:81/lists/flyrotary/List.html >>>>=20 >>>> -- >>>> Homepage: http://www.flyrotary.com/ >>>> Archive and UnSub: >>>> http://mail.lancaironline.net:81/lists/flyrotary/List.html >>>>=20 >>>=20 >>> -- >>> Homepage: http://www.flyrotary.com/ >>> Archive and UnSub: http://mail.lancaironline.net:81/lists/flyrotary/Li= st.html >>=20 >> -- >> Homepage: http://www.flyrotary.com/ >> Archive and UnSub: http://mail.lancaironline.net:81/lists/flyrotary/Lis= t.html >=20 --Apple-Mail-20--786561851 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Content-Type: text/html; charset=utf-8
No alcohol problems in my experience wi= th aluminum tanks sealed with Proseal (a polysulfide  sealant) Been run= ning auto fuel since 1994.   

Tracy
Sent from my iPad

On Apr 9, 2012, at 2:50 PM, Thomas Gidding= s <n360tg@earthlink.net> w= rote:

I am curious if= you folks think auto fuel can cause problems with aluminum tanks and sealer= .
KIND REGARDS
Thomas Giddings
n360tg@earthlink.net
727 858 1772



On Apr 9, 2012, at 2:28 PM, Tracy wrote:

I understand why that= would motivate you to go OMP Mark!

Not that I know the bottom line t= ruth to the auto fuel/ fiberglass nightmares that have struck so many builde= rs lately but the latest theory I heard is that it is not the Ethanol that i= s eating the tanks but the much advertised fuel injector / valve cleaner add= itives that many oil companies are putting in the gasoline.   Who k= nows?

Tracy
Sent from my iPad

On Apr 9, 2012, at 12:38 PM, M= ark Steitle <msteitle@gmail.com> wrote:

Tracy,

OK, here's the rest of the story...

I ha= ve come to believe the Lancair wing fuel tank design may have been
partly responsible for the damage to my ape= x seals.  Lancair uses a
wet w= ing and there are ribs forming 4 separate fuel bays per wing.
The ribs have "mouse holes" to allow fuel to pas= s from section to
section.  Y= ears ago, when I used to run mogas, I used a fuel trailer
and would add 2-stroke when filling.  It would b= e well mixed by the
time I pumped i= t into my a/c tanks.  I was forced to switch to 100LL
<= blockquote type=3D"cite">when the beaurocrats started blending ethanol in al= l auto fuels
(ethanol is non-compa= tible with the Jeffco adhesives).  I now have to
fuel at the airport(s), so the process is to pour the 2-= stroke into
the wing as I pump the= fuel.  This isn't easy to do and I seldom
finish pouring the oil at the same time the tank is reaching fu= ll.
Pouring oil while fueling sure= ly helped, but in retrospect I suspect
it still didn't mix thoroughly due to the ribs in the tanks.  I ca= n't
figure a way to get the fuel t= horoughly mixed, so I decided to switch
over to the OMP system.

=
Maybe the answer is to do both.  = ;I can run the OMP (with 3-lines) and
also add some additional 2-stroke (1/2 oz./gallon) to the wing tanks.
Not perfect, but much better than th= e alternative.

Mark

<= /blockquote>

On 4/9/12, Tracy <rwstracy@gmail.com> wrote:
Hope I didn't give t= he impression I was an expert on the Mazda oil injection
system.  =  I only remember where the 4 lines went on the 13B from
disassembl= ing so many of them.   Only 2 of the ports (secondaries I believe)=
got the oil lines so only 4 needed.    Don't think I've= ever seen a 20B OMP
=
setup  (my 20B engine was built from new part= s).   I can't imagine why there
are 4 lines on a 20B setup. &= nbsp; I think there are only 2 lines used on 3rd gen
13Bs.  O= nly the rotor housings are fed, not the manifold.   Since the 20B i= s
essentially a 3rd gen engine,  I would have thought it would hav= e a similar
setup with 3 lines (one to each rotor housing).

= I'm still of the opinion that you can't do better (from a functional
st= andpoint) than premixing the oil so I've never played with the injection.
It just isn't practical for most people in car use.   That's wh= y 95%+ of OMP
adapters are purchased by car guys.

Tracy
<= /blockquote>

PS:   I thought I sent that updated EC2 installation guide t= o you before I
left home (I'm in Colorado until early May)   = The main difference from last
one you have is that Both A & B are pro= grammed when running on A controller.
When using B, only B is affected= by programming changes.

Sent from my iPad

=
On Apr 9, 2= 012, at 10:12 AM, Mark Steitle <msteitle@gmail.com> wrote:
<= /blockquote>

Tracy,

=
How should I plumb the 4= lines for the 3-rotor.  =46rom your
explanation, it seems it should have 6 lines (2 per rotor)?  = Even the
20b OMP only has 4-port= s. Should I split the 4th line into three
separate lines?  Do you know of anyplace where I could read a= bout how
OMPs are connected from= the factory?

<= /blockquote>
Thanks,
Mark
=

P.S.  Were you going to email me a copy of the upd= ated EC-2 manual?


= On 4/9/12, Tracy <rwstracy@gmail.com> wrote:
<= /blockquote>
Two into the rotor hous= ings, two into the intake manifold just upstream
of
<= /blockquote>
the ports i= n the block.

=
Tracy
=

Sent from my iPad
On Apr 9, 2012, at 5:42 AM, Mark Steitle <msteitle@gmail.com> wrote:

=
Steve, that's why I'm a= sking the experts on this.  I'm still trying to
figure this out.  The older 13b OMP has 4 ports.=  So did the 20B OMP,
wit= h
only three lines.  I wa= s planning on not using the 4th port.  Where does
<= blockquote type=3D"cite">the 4th line go to on the 13b setup?

<= /blockquote>
Mark
=

<= blockquote type=3D"cite">On Sun, Apr 8, 2012 at 8:29 PM, Steven W. Boese <= ;SBoes= e@uwyo.edu> wrote:
= Mark,
=



Since the OMP 's I've seen are set u= p with 4 oil lines and intended for
a
=
two rotor engine, how d= o you intend to adapt it to the three rotor
engine
<= /blockquote>
in terms of= amount of oil metered and how it is distributed?

=


Steve

=

<= blockquote type=3D"cite">

From: Mark Steitle

=
Sent: Saturday, April 07, 2012 8:10 PM
=
To: Rotary motors in aircraft
=
Subject: [FlyRotary] OMP Plumbing

Is anyone running an oil metering pump (OMP) that can help me figure<= br>
out
how the lines should be connected.  I'm plannin= g on using the Mazda
=
banjo f= ittings to hook up to the OMP, but what do I do with the check
valves.  Do you connect the check valv= es to a vacuum source or just
=
block them off?  Will the system work properly if I plug the check
valves?  I plan on lockin= g the lever in the full open position.  Will
this work for a/c use?  I'll be using Richard Soh= n's adapter with a 1
=
gallon r= eservoir filled with 2-stroke oil.

=
Mark S.

=

<= /blockquote>

=



=



=
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