X-Virus-Scanned: clean according to Sophos on Logan.com Return-Path: Received: from mail-bk0-f52.google.com ([209.85.214.52] verified) by logan.com (CommuniGate Pro SMTP 5.4.4) with ESMTPS id 5474401 for flyrotary@lancaironline.net; Mon, 09 Apr 2012 14:57:27 -0400 Received-SPF: pass receiver=logan.com; client-ip=209.85.214.52; envelope-from=msteitle@gmail.com Received: by bkcjm19 with SMTP id jm19so3497833bkc.25 for ; Mon, 09 Apr 2012 11:56:51 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=20120113; h=mime-version:in-reply-to:references:date:message-id:subject:from:to :content-type; bh=qiERO5xUeXQqxGePRiouvSWGFsDSps6ZThV/iyBhlmk=; b=XtvUNW+TacUDC9JzQOE4zPigCkDWfWedI0egoLpsI7OTq90NWvLSPz95vV3GLgJE/s JJkl6DcVwAj/HgiEbwtAnpX3Ic42X3rPcPXRlmrQsVi4gSwJMFdgKMCwtIpYupnPLEty Wm08MABX/NsiZ7XKO/oYBaeTgyRX2LpHXp4xkyFbARoSh2a6xtHJyqDsDkcx9clgTHuc MCiwwudWQ7JOWBLpb9pj6HCq7g9qX4oObLqpUA4FlvTu++x+WmAQ0CLoLqYyLjC93AZg x50REve8MeayMLJ5f806oApK1aGOz+1xbasEeOq0qfgYZ2rfzhS8lBZnc6851W0Vm2G/ oRWQ== MIME-Version: 1.0 Received: by 10.205.132.73 with SMTP id ht9mr3665026bkc.46.1333997811523; Mon, 09 Apr 2012 11:56:51 -0700 (PDT) Received: by 10.205.118.139 with HTTP; Mon, 9 Apr 2012 11:56:51 -0700 (PDT) In-Reply-To: References: Date: Mon, 9 Apr 2012 13:56:51 -0500 Message-ID: Subject: Re: [FlyRotary] Re: OMP Plumbing From: Mark Steitle To: Rotary motors in aircraft Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Tracy, Yes, I had heard about that too. Something to think about for everyone running mogas. Leave it to the beaurocrats to really foul things up. I may end up getting another fuel trailer, pump 100LL into the trailer, drive around to mix up the oil, then pump it into the a/c. Another option I was thinking was that it may be possible to utilize the capacitive fuel probes as a way to circulate the fuel in the tanks in order to mix up the oil. The probes run all the way from the inner most bulkhead to the outer fuel bay. But if I'm not careful, that may result in a big explosion! I think I prefer the OMP option best. Mark On 4/9/12, Tracy wrote: > I understand why that would motivate you to go OMP Mark! > > Not that I know the bottom line truth to the auto fuel/ fiberglass > nightmares that have struck so many builders lately but the latest theory I > heard is that it is not the Ethanol that is eating the tanks but the much > advertised fuel injector / valve cleaner additives that many oil companies > are putting in the gasoline. Who knows? > > Tracy > Sent from my iPad > > On Apr 9, 2012, at 12:38 PM, Mark Steitle wrote: > >> Tracy, >> >> OK, here's the rest of the story... >> >> I have come to believe the Lancair wing fuel tank design may have been >> partly responsible for the damage to my apex seals. Lancair uses a >> wet wing and there are ribs forming 4 separate fuel bays per wing. >> The ribs have "mouse holes" to allow fuel to pass from section to >> section. Years ago, when I used to run mogas, I used a fuel trailer >> and would add 2-stroke when filling. It would be well mixed by the >> time I pumped it into my a/c tanks. I was forced to switch to 100LL >> when the beaurocrats started blending ethanol in all auto fuels >> (ethanol is non-compatible with the Jeffco adhesives). I now have to >> fuel at the airport(s), so the process is to pour the 2-stroke into >> the wing as I pump the fuel. This isn't easy to do and I seldom >> finish pouring the oil at the same time the tank is reaching full. >> Pouring oil while fueling surely helped, but in retrospect I suspect >> it still didn't mix thoroughly due to the ribs in the tanks. I can't >> figure a way to get the fuel thoroughly mixed, so I decided to switch >> over to the OMP system. >> >> Maybe the answer is to do both. I can run the OMP (with 3-lines) and >> also add some additional 2-stroke (1/2 oz./gallon) to the wing tanks. >> Not perfect, but much better than the alternative. >> >> Mark >> >> >> On 4/9/12, Tracy wrote: >>> Hope I didn't give the impression I was an expert on the Mazda oil >>> injection >>> system. I only remember where the 4 lines went on the 13B from >>> disassembling so many of them. Only 2 of the ports (secondaries I >>> believe) >>> got the oil lines so only 4 needed. Don't think I've ever seen a 20B >>> OMP >>> setup (my 20B engine was built from new parts). I can't imagine why >>> there >>> are 4 lines on a 20B setup. I think there are only 2 lines used on 3rd >>> gen >>> 13Bs. Only the rotor housings are fed, not the manifold. Since the 20B >>> is >>> essentially a 3rd gen engine, I would have thought it would have a >>> similar >>> setup with 3 lines (one to each rotor housing). >>> >>> I'm still of the opinion that you can't do better (from a functional >>> standpoint) than premixing the oil so I've never played with the >>> injection. >>> It just isn't practical for most people in car use. That's why 95%+ of >>> OMP >>> adapters are purchased by car guys. >>> >>> Tracy >>> >>> PS: I thought I sent that updated EC2 installation guide to you before >>> I >>> left home (I'm in Colorado until early May) The main difference from >>> last >>> one you have is that Both A & B are programmed when running on A >>> controller. >>> When using B, only B is affected by programming changes. >>> >>> Sent from my iPad >>> >>> On Apr 9, 2012, at 10:12 AM, Mark Steitle wrote: >>> >>>> Tracy, >>>> >>>> How should I plumb the 4 lines for the 3-rotor. From your >>>> explanation, it seems it should have 6 lines (2 per rotor)? Even the >>>> 20b OMP only has 4-ports. Should I split the 4th line into three >>>> separate lines? Do you know of anyplace where I could read about how >>>> OMPs are connected from the factory? >>>> >>>> Thanks, >>>> Mark >>>> >>>> P.S. Were you going to email me a copy of the updated EC-2 manual? >>>> >>>> >>>> On 4/9/12, Tracy wrote: >>>>> Two into the rotor housings, two into the intake manifold just upstream >>>>> of >>>>> the ports in the block. >>>>> >>>>> Tracy >>>>> >>>>> Sent from my iPad >>>>> >>>>> On Apr 9, 2012, at 5:42 AM, Mark Steitle wrote: >>>>> >>>>>> Steve, that's why I'm asking the experts on this. I'm still trying to >>>>>> figure this out. The older 13b OMP has 4 ports. So did the 20B OMP, >>>>>> with >>>>>> only three lines. I was planning on not using the 4th port. Where >>>>>> does >>>>>> the 4th line go to on the 13b setup? >>>>>> >>>>>> Mark >>>>>> >>>>>> On Sun, Apr 8, 2012 at 8:29 PM, Steven W. Boese >>>>>> wrote: >>>>>> Mark, >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> Since the OMP 's I've seen are set up with 4 oil lines and intended >>>>>> for >>>>>> a >>>>>> two rotor engine, how do you intend to adapt it to the three rotor >>>>>> engine >>>>>> in terms of amount of oil metered and how it is distributed? >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> Steve >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> From: Mark Steitle >>>>>>> >>>>>>>> Sent: Saturday, April 07, 2012 8:10 PM >>>>>>>> To: Rotary motors in aircraft >>>>>>>> Subject: [FlyRotary] OMP Plumbing >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> Is anyone running an oil metering pump (OMP) that can help me figure >>>>>>>> out >>>>>>>> how the lines should be connected. I'm planning on using the Mazda >>>>>>>> banjo fittings to hook up to the OMP, but what do I do with the >>>>>>>> check >>>>>>>> valves. Do you connect the check valves to a vacuum source or just >>>>>>>> block them off? Will the system work properly if I plug the check >>>>>>>> valves? I plan on locking the lever in the full open position. >>>>>>>> Will >>>>>>>> this work for a/c use? I'll be using Richard Sohn's adapter with a >>>>>>>> 1 >>>>>>>> gallon reservoir filled with 2-stroke oil. >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> Mark S. >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>> >>>> >>>> -- >>>> Homepage: http://www.flyrotary.com/ >>>> Archive and UnSub: >>>> http://mail.lancaironline.net:81/lists/flyrotary/List.html >>> >>> -- >>> Homepage: http://www.flyrotary.com/ >>> Archive and UnSub: >>> http://mail.lancaironline.net:81/lists/flyrotary/List.html >>> >> >> -- >> Homepage: http://www.flyrotary.com/ >> Archive and UnSub: >> http://mail.lancaironline.net:81/lists/flyrotary/List.html > > -- > Homepage: http://www.flyrotary.com/ > Archive and UnSub: > http://mail.lancaironline.net:81/lists/flyrotary/List.html >