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[166.248.70.54]) by mx.google.com with ESMTPS id dm8sm22314167qab.18.2012.04.08.16.12.34 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=OTHER); Sun, 08 Apr 2012 16:12:38 -0700 (PDT) Subject: Re: [FlyRotary] Re: OMP Plumbing References: From: Tracy Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary=Apple-Mail-15--862730494 X-Mailer: iPad Mail (8F191) In-Reply-To: Message-Id: Date: Sun, 8 Apr 2012 19:12:25 -0400 To: Rotary motors in aircraft Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Mime-Version: 1.0 (iPad Mail 8F191) --Apple-Mail-15--862730494 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Yep, that is clear. I was just thinking that the chamber pressure is going= to be almost the same as just after the TB. I don't actually know how th= ose oil injectors are supposed to work. If we wanted higher pressure on th= at 'vacuum' line to the injectors, the pressure is always higher before the T= B than after. That's what confused me. Tracy Sent from my iPad On Apr 8, 2012, at 3:14 PM, "Richard Sohn" wrote: > The direction I was talking about is as the intake air is flowing. On the t= urbo, I was mainly referring to the way Mazda set it up originally, which is= turbo-throttle body-plenum-engine. > =20 > Does that make sense? > =20 > Richard Sohn > N2071U >=20 > http://www.fairpoint.net/~res12/home.html > =20 > From: Tracy > Sent: Sunday, April 08, 2012 12:38 PM > To: Rotary motors in aircraft > Subject: [FlyRotary] Re: OMP Plumbing > =20 > If I were doing this myself, I might get confused by these instructions. = If we want the pressure HIGHER than chamber pressure, I would think we want= the lines before the TB, turbo, etc rather than after. But i guess it depe= nds on which direction is 'after'. =20 > =20 > Tracy >=20 > Sent from my iPad >=20 > On Apr 8, 2012, at 11:09 AM, "Richard Sohn" wrote: >=20 >> The vacuum lines need to be at a place where the pressure during the inta= ke cycle is above the combustion chamber pressure. This is generally right p= ast the throttle body. There is no difference between turbo and NA, as long a= s the turbo is before the TB.=20 >> If the turbo is after the TB, the vacuum pickup would have to be from the= plenum. In any case, after the TB and after a turbo. >> One of my turbo assumptions, before or after the TB, may be wrong, please= excuse it. >> =20 >> Richard Sohn >> N2071U >>=20 >> http://www.fairpoint.net/~res12/home.html >> =20 >> From: CozyGirrrl@aol.com >> Sent: Sunday, April 08, 2012 9:25 AM >> To: Rotary motors in aircraft >> Subject: [FlyRotary] Re: OMP Plumbing >> =20 >> Richard, Where would you plumb the vacuum line in case of turbo? >> =20 >> Chrissi & Randi >> www.CozyGirrrl.com >> CG Products, Custom Aircraft Hardware >> Chairwomen, Sun-N-Fun Engine Workshop >> =20 >> In a message dated 4/8/2012 8:57:02 A.M. Central Daylight Time, res12@fai= rpoint.net writes: >> Mark, this pump uses an o-ring. It is the same o-ring on the pump and the= adapter. I have some laying around. Let me know if you need them, and I wil= l put two in an envelope. >> Need a mailing address on my private email. >> =20 >> Richard Sohn >> N2071U >>=20 >> http://www.fairpoint.net/~res12/home.html >> =20 >> From: Mark Steitle >> Sent: Sunday, April 08, 2012 8:40 AM >> To: Rotary motors in aircraft >> Subject: [FlyRotary] Re: OMP Plumbing >> =20 >> Kelly,=20 >> =20 >> Wouldn't you know, I found my 13b front cover. As they say, "If it had b= een a snake, it would have bit me." So, you can keep the one you have (mayb= e make a clock out of it). It is off an '89 6-port engine. The pump I have= is off the same engine, so everything fits. Anybody know where I can get a= gasket to fit this pump? >> =20 >> Mark >>=20 >>=20 >> On Sat, Apr 7, 2012 at 10:30 PM, Kelly Troyer wrote: >> Mark, >> Do you have a 86-88 or 89-91 metering pump ?.............I have both= covers but Richard's adapters are different >> for these model years............. >> =20 >> Kelly >> On Sat, Apr 7, 2012 at 10:09 PM, Mark Steitle wrote:= >> Richard,=20 >> =20 >> Thanks for the great information. That supports what instinct was tellin= g me. So, anywhere upstream of the butterfly should work? I'm running thre= e 1-barrel throttle-bodies on my p-port 3-rotor. If I understand you, I sho= uld hook the check valve for each rotor upstream of the respective TB butter= fly, correct? >> =20 >> Mark=20 >>=20 >> On Sat, Apr 7, 2012 at 9:54 PM, Richard Sohn wrote:= >> Mark, >> =20 >> you need the injection check valves hooked up to your intake plenum. The o= il intake only works with the pressure difference between the combustion cha= mber and the plenum during the intake cycle. The check valve prevents oil fr= om being pushed into the vacuum lines by reverse pressure fluctuations. >> As far as the control lever is concerned, you have a good plan. You may w= ant to make the lever position adjustable so you can set the oil consumption= to a level that makes you and the engine feel good. >> FWIW >> =20 >> Richard Sohn >> N2071U >>=20 >> http://www.fairpoint.net/~res12/home.html >> =20 >> From: Mark Steitle >> Sent: Saturday, April 07, 2012 8:10 PM >> To: Rotary motors in aircraft >> Subject: [FlyRotary] OMP Plumbing >> =20 >> Is anyone running an oil metering pump (OMP) that can help me figure out h= ow the lines should be connected. I'm planning on using the Mazda banjo fit= tings to hook up to the OMP, but what do I do with the check valves. Do you= connect the check valves to a vacuum source or just block them off? Will t= he system work properly if I plug the check valves? I plan on locking the l= ever in the full open position. Will this work for a/c use? I'll be using R= ichard Sohn's adapter with a 1 gallon reservoir filled with 2-stroke oil. =20= >> =20 >> Mark S. >> =20 >>=20 >>=20 >> =20 >=20 --Apple-Mail-15--862730494 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Type: text/html; charset=utf-8
Yep, that is clear.   I was just thinking that the chamber pressure is going to be almost the same as just after the TB.    I don't actually know how those oil injectors are supposed to work.   If we wanted higher pressure on that 'vacuum' line to the injectors, the pressure is always higher before the TB than after.  That's what confused me.

Tracy

Sent from my iPad

On Apr 8, 2012, at 3:14 PM, "Richard Sohn" <res12@fairpoint.net> wrote:

The direction I was talking about is as the intake air is flowing. On the turbo, I was mainly referring to the way Mazda set it up originally, which is turbo-throttle body-plenum-engine.
 
Does that make sense?
 
 
From: Tracy
Sent: Sunday, April 08, 2012 12:38 PM
Subject: [FlyRotary] Re: OMP Plumbing
 
If I were doing this myself, I might get confused by these instructions.   If we want the pressure HIGHER than chamber pressure, I would think we want the lines before the TB, turbo, etc rather than after.  But i guess it depends on which direction is 'after'.  
 
Tracy

Sent from my iPad

On Apr 8, 2012, at 11:09 AM, "Richard Sohn" <res12@fairpoint.net> wrote:

The vacuum lines need to be at a place where the pressure during the intake cycle is above the combustion chamber pressure. This is generally right past the throttle body. There is no difference between turbo and NA, as long as the turbo is before the TB. 
If the turbo is after the TB, the vacuum pickup would have to be from the plenum. In any case, after the TB and after a turbo.
One of my turbo assumptions, before or after the TB, may be wrong, please excuse it.
 
 
Sent: Sunday, April 08, 2012 9:25 AM
Subject: [FlyRotary] Re: OMP Plumbing
 
Richard, Where would you plumb the vacuum line in case of turbo?
 
Chrissi & Randi
www.CozyGirrrl.com
CG Products, Custom Aircraft Hardware
Chairwomen, Sun-N-Fun Engine Workshop
 
In a message dated 4/8/2012 8:57:02 A.M. Central Daylight Time, res12@fairpoint.net writes:
Mark, this pump uses an o-ring. It is the same o-ring on the pump and the adapter. I have some laying around. Let me know if you need them, and I will put two in an envelope.
Need a mailing address on my private email.
 
 
Sent: Sunday, April 08, 2012 8:40 AM
Subject: [FlyRotary] Re: OMP Plumbing
 
Kelly, 
 
Wouldn't you know, I found my 13b front cover.  As they say, "If it had been a snake, it would have bit me."  So, you can keep the one you have (maybe make a clock out of it).  It is off an '89 6-port engine.  The pump I have is off the same engine, so everything fits.  Anybody know where I can get a gasket to fit this pump?
 
Mark


On Sat, Apr 7, 2012 at 10:30 PM, Kelly Troyer <keltro@gmail.com> wrote:
Mark,
    Do you have a 86-88  or 89-91 metering pump ?.............I have both covers but Richard's adapters are different
for these model years.............
 
Kelly
On Sat, Apr 7, 2012 at 10:09 PM, Mark Steitle <msteitle@gmail.com> wrote:
Richard, 
 
Thanks for the great information.  That supports what instinct was telling me.  So, anywhere upstream of the butterfly should work?  I'm running three 1-barrel throttle-bodies on my p-port 3-rotor.  If I understand you, I should hook the check valve for each rotor upstream of the respective TB butterfly, correct?
 
Mark

On Sat, Apr 7, 2012 at 9:54 PM, Richard Sohn <res12@fairpoint.net> wrote:
Mark,
 
you need the injection check valves hooked up to your intake plenum. The oil intake only works with the pressure difference between the combustion chamber and the plenum during the intake cycle. The check valve prevents oil from being pushed into the vacuum lines by reverse pressure fluctuations.
As far as the control lever is concerned, you have a good plan. You may want to make the lever position adjustable so you can set the oil consumption to a level that makes you and the engine feel good.
FWIW
 
 
Sent: Saturday, April 07, 2012 8:10 PM
Subject: [FlyRotary] OMP Plumbing
 
Is anyone running an oil metering pump (OMP) that can help me figure out how the lines should be connected.  I'm planning on using the Mazda banjo fittings to hook up to the OMP, but what do I do with the check valves.  Do you connect the check valves to a vacuum source or just block them off?  Will the system work properly if I plug the check valves?  I plan on locking the lever in the full open position.  Will this work for a/c use?  I'll be using Richard Sohn's adapter with a 1 gallon reservoir filled with 2-stroke oil.   
 
Mark S.
 


 
--Apple-Mail-15--862730494--