X-Virus-Scanned: clean according to Sophos on Logan.com Return-Path: Received: from smtp0.av-mx.com ([137.118.16.56] verified) by logan.com (CommuniGate Pro SMTP 5.4.4) with ESMTP id 5473226 for flyrotary@lancaironline.net; Sun, 08 Apr 2012 15:14:37 -0400 Received-SPF: pass receiver=logan.com; client-ip=137.118.16.56; envelope-from=res12@fairpoint.net Received: from MAIN (unknown [66.243.229.199]) (Authenticated sender: res12@fairpoint.net) by smtp0.av-mx.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 258D71C088B for ; Sun, 8 Apr 2012 15:14:02 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: <8083AF7D09394A18AC2A5E5BCE0E1A6E@MAIN> From: "Richard Sohn" To: "Rotary motors in aircraft" References: In-Reply-To: Subject: Re: [FlyRotary] Re: OMP Plumbing Date: Sun, 8 Apr 2012 14:14:01 -0500 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="----=_NextPart_000_005E_01CD1591.D8AB5240" X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal Importance: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Windows Live Mail 15.4.3538.513 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V15.4.3538.513 This is a multi-part message in MIME format. ------=_NextPart_000_005E_01CD1591.D8AB5240 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable The direction I was talking about is as the intake air is flowing. On = the turbo, I was mainly referring to the way Mazda set it up originally, = which is turbo-throttle body-plenum-engine.=20 Does that make sense? Richard Sohn N2071U http://www.fairpoint.net/~res12/home.html From: Tracy=20 Sent: Sunday, April 08, 2012 12:38 PM To: Rotary motors in aircraft=20 Subject: [FlyRotary] Re: OMP Plumbing If I were doing this myself, I might get confused by these instructions. = If we want the pressure HIGHER than chamber pressure, I would think we = want the lines before the TB, turbo, etc rather than after. But i guess = it depends on which direction is 'after'. =20 Tracy Sent from my iPad On Apr 8, 2012, at 11:09 AM, "Richard Sohn" wrote: The vacuum lines need to be at a place where the pressure during the = intake cycle is above the combustion chamber pressure. This is generally = right past the throttle body. There is no difference between turbo and = NA, as long as the turbo is before the TB. =20 If the turbo is after the TB, the vacuum pickup would have to be from = the plenum. In any case, after the TB and after a turbo. One of my turbo assumptions, before or after the TB, may be wrong, = please excuse it. Richard Sohn N2071U http://www.fairpoint.net/~res12/home.html From: CozyGirrrl@aol.com=20 Sent: Sunday, April 08, 2012 9:25 AM To: Rotary motors in aircraft=20 Subject: [FlyRotary] Re: OMP Plumbing Richard, Where would you plumb the vacuum line in case of turbo? Chrissi & Randi www.CozyGirrrl.com CG Products, Custom Aircraft Hardware Chairwomen, Sun-N-Fun Engine Workshop In a message dated 4/8/2012 8:57:02 A.M. Central Daylight Time, = res12@fairpoint.net writes: Mark, this pump uses an o-ring. It is the same o-ring on the pump = and the adapter. I have some laying around. Let me know if you need = them, and I will put two in an envelope. Need a mailing address on my private email. Richard Sohn N2071U http://www.fairpoint.net/~res12/home.html From: Mark Steitle=20 Sent: Sunday, April 08, 2012 8:40 AM To: Rotary motors in aircraft=20 Subject: [FlyRotary] Re: OMP Plumbing Kelly, =20 Wouldn't you know, I found my 13b front cover. As they say, "If it = had been a snake, it would have bit me." So, you can keep the one you = have (maybe make a clock out of it). It is off an '89 6-port engine. = The pump I have is off the same engine, so everything fits. Anybody = know where I can get a gasket to fit this pump? Mark On Sat, Apr 7, 2012 at 10:30 PM, Kelly Troyer = wrote: Mark, Do you have a 86-88 or 89-91 metering pump ?.............I = have both covers but Richard's adapters are different for these model years............. Kelly On Sat, Apr 7, 2012 at 10:09 PM, Mark Steitle = wrote: Richard, =20 Thanks for the great information. That supports what instinct = was telling me. So, anywhere upstream of the butterfly should work? = I'm running three 1-barrel throttle-bodies on my p-port 3-rotor. If I = understand you, I should hook the check valve for each rotor upstream of = the respective TB butterfly, correct? Mark=20 On Sat, Apr 7, 2012 at 9:54 PM, Richard Sohn = wrote: Mark, you need the injection check valves hooked up to your intake = plenum. The oil intake only works with the pressure difference between = the combustion chamber and the plenum during the intake cycle. The check = valve prevents oil from being pushed into the vacuum lines by reverse = pressure fluctuations.=20 As far as the control lever is concerned, you have a good = plan. You may want to make the lever position adjustable so you can set = the oil consumption to a level that makes you and the engine feel good. FWIW Richard Sohn N2071U http://www.fairpoint.net/~res12/home.html From: Mark Steitle=20 Sent: Saturday, April 07, 2012 8:10 PM To: Rotary motors in aircraft=20 Subject: [FlyRotary] OMP Plumbing Is anyone running an oil metering pump (OMP) that can help me = figure out how the lines should be connected. I'm planning on using the = Mazda banjo fittings to hook up to the OMP, but what do I do with the = check valves. Do you connect the check valves to a vacuum source or = just block them off? Will the system work properly if I plug the check = valves? I plan on locking the lever in the full open position. Will = this work for a/c use? I'll be using Richard Sohn's adapter with a 1 = gallon reservoir filled with 2-stroke oil. =20 Mark S. ------=_NextPart_000_005E_01CD1591.D8AB5240 Content-Type: text/html; charset="UTF-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
The direction I was talking about is as the intake air is flowing. = On the=20 turbo, I was mainly referring to the way Mazda set it up originally, = which is=20 turbo-throttle body-plenum-engine.
 
Does that make sense?
 
Richard=20 Sohn
N2071U

http://www.fairpoint.net/~res12/home.html
 
From: Tracy
Sent: Sunday, April 08, 2012 12:38 PM
Subject: [FlyRotary] Re: OMP Plumbing
 
If I were doing this myself, I might get confused by these=20 instructions.   If we want the pressure HIGHER than chamber = pressure,=20 I would think we want the lines before the TB, turbo, etc rather than=20 after.  But i guess it depends on which direction is = 'after'.  =20
 
Tracy

Sent from my iPad

On Apr 8, 2012, at 11:09 AM, "Richard Sohn" <res12@fairpoint.net>=20 wrote:

The vacuum lines need to be at a place where the pressure during = the=20 intake cycle is above the combustion chamber pressure. This is = generally right=20 past the throttle body. There is no difference between turbo and NA, = as long=20 as the turbo is before the TB. 
If the turbo is after the TB, the vacuum pickup would have to be = from the=20 plenum. In any case, after the TB and after a turbo.
One of my turbo assumptions, before or after the TB, may be = wrong, please=20 excuse it.
 
Richard=20 Sohn
N2071U

http://www.fairpoint.n= et/~res12/home.html
 
Sent: Sunday, April 08, 2012 9:25 AM
Subject: [FlyRotary] Re: OMP Plumbing
 
Richard, Where would you plumb the vacuum line in case of = turbo?
 
Chrissi=20 & Randi
www.CozyGirrrl.com
CG = Products,=20 Custom Aircraft Hardware
Chairwomen, Sun-N-Fun Engine Workshop
 
In a message dated 4/8/2012 8:57:02 A.M. Central Daylight Time, = res12@fairpoint.net = writes:
Mark, this pump uses an o-ring. It is the same o-ring on the = pump and=20 the adapter. I have some laying around. Let me know if you need = them, and I=20 will put two in an envelope.
Need a mailing address on my private email.
 
Richard=20 Sohn
N2071U

http://www.fairpoint.n= et/~res12/home.html
 
From: Mark=20 Steitle
Sent: Sunday, April 08, 2012 8:40 AM
Subject: [FlyRotary] Re: OMP Plumbing
 
Kelly, =20
 
Wouldn't you know, I found my 13b front cover.  As they = say, "If=20 it had been a snake, it would have bit me."  So, you can keep = the one=20 you have (maybe make a clock out of it).  It is off an '89 = 6-port=20 engine.  The pump I have is off the same engine, so everything=20 fits.  Anybody know where I can get a gasket to fit this = pump?
 
Mark


On Sat, Apr 7, 2012 at 10:30 PM, Kelly = Troyer <keltro@gmail.com> = wrote:
Mark,
    Do you have a 86-88  or 89-91 = metering pump=20 ?.............I have both covers but Richard's adapters are=20 different
for these model years.............
 
Kelly
On Sat, Apr 7, 2012 at 10:09 PM, Mark Steitle = <msteitle@gmail.com> = wrote:
Richard, =20
 
Thanks for the great information.  That supports what = instinct=20 was telling me.  So, anywhere upstream of the butterfly = should=20 work?  I'm running three 1-barrel throttle-bodies on my = p-port=20 3-rotor.  If I understand you, I should hook the check = valve for=20 each rotor upstream of the respective TB butterfly, = correct?
 
Mark

On Sat, Apr 7, 2012 at 9:54 PM, Richard Sohn <res12@fairpoint.net>=20 wrote:
Mark,
 
you need the injection check valves hooked up to your = intake=20 plenum. The oil intake only works with the pressure difference = between=20 the combustion chamber and the plenum during the intake cycle. = The=20 check valve prevents oil from being pushed into the vacuum = lines by=20 reverse pressure fluctuations.
As far as the control lever is concerned, you have a good = plan.=20 You may want to make the lever position adjustable so you can = set the=20 oil consumption to a level that makes you and the engine feel=20 good.
FWIW
 
Richard = Sohn
N2071U

http://www.fairpoint.n= et/~res12/home.html
 
Sent: Saturday, April 07, 2012 8:10 PM
Subject: [FlyRotary] OMP=20 Plumbing
 
Is=20 anyone running an oil metering pump (OMP) that can help me = figure out=20 how the lines should be connected.  I'm planning on using = the=20 Mazda banjo fittings to hook up to the OMP, but what do I do = with the=20 check valves.  Do you connect the check valves to a = vacuum source=20 or just block them off?  Will the system work properly if = I plug=20 the check valves?  I plan on locking the lever in the = full open=20 position.  Will this work for a/c use?  I'll be = using=20 Richard Sohn's adapter with a 1 gallon reservoir filled with = 2-stroke=20 oil.   =20
 
Mark=20 = S.
 

=
 
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