X-Virus-Scanned: clean according to Sophos on Logan.com Return-Path: Received: from mail-wi0-f172.google.com ([209.85.212.172] verified) by logan.com (CommuniGate Pro SMTP 5.4.4) with ESMTPS id 5452986 for flyrotary@lancaironline.net; Thu, 22 Mar 2012 20:35:38 -0400 Received-SPF: pass receiver=logan.com; client-ip=209.85.212.172; envelope-from=msteitle@gmail.com Received: by wibhj6 with SMTP id hj6so1112754wib.7 for ; Thu, 22 Mar 2012 17:35:02 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=20120113; h=mime-version:in-reply-to:references:date:message-id:subject:from:to :content-type; bh=uIVxLtZOOfszb9H1FKVPWnzwomW1ZPLhjktIcCGd6C8=; b=v37Vc/GqBnUA+zZL/p5gvHjgTbwEBe/ma8TFSLdG/EHHiYCp6RQp8VKIE7rET/W94G 4QZndCoPVVYIn723IAR5HU0La6zgOWpSf5ONkNwgjB2zC1Qb203f+/IGKyp1ckBCEGkh 4xeOTXQYGKyXbmSZVVYmmOApPV/30DpyELLFpZBvmps66IeMI2CVdcS2G+yL+Wu+LLz2 WQseEXOFLoaY8h9ood6mzCuRbgXNpbbUF34CXTvDx7Bkc5pUMgSmqXTajl6ukIqYtS/8 5FdIoJGCgjc6uv0TSE90n3yCCWt0llo5vxaknloPx/0eaCRCxX7QWbcbWu/d4xJrhe92 OaDg== MIME-Version: 1.0 Received: by 10.180.80.9 with SMTP id n9mr1941525wix.4.1332462902468; Thu, 22 Mar 2012 17:35:02 -0700 (PDT) Received: by 10.223.104.13 with HTTP; Thu, 22 Mar 2012 17:35:02 -0700 (PDT) In-Reply-To: References: Date: Thu, 22 Mar 2012 19:35:02 -0500 Message-ID: Subject: Re: [FlyRotary] Re: #1 rotor cutting out From: Mark Steitle To: Rotary motors in aircraft Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary=f46d04182544fa5f7b04bbde31e9 --f46d04182544fa5f7b04bbde31e9 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Jeff, That's good advice, but I think this problem was there prior to my changing the intake. I've been trying to sort out my low rpm MAP readings being higher than expected. My readings may be "normal" for the p-port engine, or I may have a leak, or ???. I changed the vacuum plumbing during the intake change. I'll try changing that back and see if that helps. I had a problem with #1 rotor dropping out at low rpm before changing to the new TB intake. Now its still there, only at a higher rpm. As for the possibility of one TB not working properly, I doubt that could be the problem as they are extremely simple devices consisting of the body, a shaft, and a butterfly. The shaft is solid so it services all three TB's at once, there's no adjustment. I can look into each bore and see the butterfly operate. The only complicated part, if you could call it that, would be the fuel injector and I've swapped/changed it twice with no improvement. I'm wondering if there may be something going on with the diodes that Tracy had us install in each injector. Since I changed the injector connectors, this one possibly may have ended up without a diode. I'll verify that #1 primary injector has a diode tomorrow. Mark S. On Thu, Mar 22, 2012 at 6:58 PM, Jeff Whaley wrote: > Well Mark, I'm no expert but I always look at what I modified last for > clues to what might be wrong now. > Is it possible that 2:3 new TBs are working great and one is not? > Just a thought ... Jeff > > > From: Mark Steitle > Subject: Re: [FlyRotary] Re: #1 rotor cutting out > Date: Thu, 22 Mar 2012 16:32:44 -0500 > To: Rotary motors in aircraft > > > > Kelly, > > Yes, the slide throttle is history, mainly because, > > 1) I concluded that the location of the primary injectors being upstream > from the slide was causing puddling of the fuel and surging, and hence poor > low speed/idle characteristics, although this was not a problem at mid to > WOT. I could have relocated the primary injectors but there were other > issues as well (see 2 through 5) > > 2) I suspected cross-feed from one port to the next during low throttle > operations, although I couldn't verify that was happening I felt it may be > contributing to the rough operation mentioned above, > > 3) It dripped fuel upon shutdown, not a lot, but it caused me some concern, > > 4) the nature of the design prevented me from balancing the individual > rotors, and > > 5) it required a modest force to operate; the new TB's are silk smooth. > > I located a triple-set of like-new 46mm 1 BBL throttle bodies from a Sea > Doo or snowmobile that looked like would work with very little > modification. It required a new throttle shaft to be fabricated since it > was one piece and the spacing was wrong for the 20B, but Bob Darrah and his > Bridgeport were happy to help me with that. I'm very happy with the end > result. > > The nature of the p-port necessitated the TB's to be located very close to > the ports, else I would have gone with a larger single TB feeding into an > airbox like most have done. Not sure that wouldn't work here, but I've > read that with the p-port engine the TB should be as close as possible to > the ports. These TB's have the injector bungs cast into the body just > downstream of the butterfly, exactly as I needed. Low end performance has > improved considerably. I just need to figure out why the #1 rotor cuts out > in mid-range. > > Mark S. > > This message, and the documents attached hereto, is intended only for the > addressee and may contain privileged or confidential information. Any > unauthorized disclosure is strictly prohibited. If you have received this > message in error, please notify us immediately so that we may correct our > internal records. Please then delete the original message. Thank you. > > -- > Homepage: http://www.flyrotary.com/ > Archive and UnSub: > http://mail.lancaironline.net:81/lists/flyrotary/List.html > --f46d04182544fa5f7b04bbde31e9 Content-Type: text/html; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Jeff,=A0

That's good advice, but I think this proble= m was there prior to my changing the intake. =A0I've been trying to sor= t out my low rpm MAP readings being higher than expected. =A0My readings ma= y be "normal" for the p-port engine, or I may have a leak, or ???= . =A0I changed the vacuum plumbing during the intake change. =A0I'll tr= y changing that back and see if that helps. =A0I had a problem with #1 roto= r dropping out at low rpm before changing to the new TB intake. =A0Now its = still there, only at a higher rpm. =A0

As for the possibility of one TB not working properly, = I doubt that could be the problem as they are extremely simple devices cons= isting of the body, a shaft, and a butterfly. =A0The shaft is solid so it s= ervices all three TB's at once, there's no adjustment. =A0I can loo= k into each bore and see the butterfly operate. =A0The only complicated par= t, if you could call it that, would be the fuel injector and I've swapp= ed/changed it twice with no improvement.

I'm wondering if there may be something going on wi= th the diodes that Tracy had us install in each injector. =A0Since I change= d the injector connectors, this one possibly may have ended up without a di= ode. =A0I'll verify that #1 primary injector has a diode tomorrow. =A0<= /div>

Mark S. =A0 =A0 =A0

O= n Thu, Mar 22, 2012 at 6:58 PM, Jeff Whaley <jwhaley@datacast.com> wrote:=
Well Mark, I'm no expert but I always look at what I modified last for = clues to what might be wrong now.
Is it possible that 2:3 new TBs are working great and one is not?
Just a thought ... =A0Jeff


From: Mark Steitle <msteitle@gmail= .com>
Subject: Re: [FlyRotary] Re: #1 rotor cutting out
Date: Thu, 22 Mar 2012 16:32:44 -0500
To: Rotary motors in aircraft <flyrotary@lancaironline.net>



Kelly,

Yes, the slide throttle is history, mainly because,

1) I concluded that the location of the primary injectors being upstream fr= om the slide was causing puddling of the fuel and surging, and hence poor l= ow speed/idle characteristics, although this was not a problem at mid to WO= T. =A0I could have relocated the primary injectors but there were other iss= ues as well (see 2 through 5)

2) I suspected cross-feed from one port to the next during low throttle ope= rations, although I couldn't verify that was happening I felt it may be= contributing to the rough operation mentioned above,

3) It dripped fuel upon shutdown, not a lot, but it caused me some concern,=

4) the nature of the design prevented me from balancing the individual roto= rs, and

5) it required a modest force to operate; the new TB's are silk smooth.=

I located a triple-set of like-new 46mm 1 BBL throttle bodies from a Sea Do= o or snowmobile that looked like =A0would work with very little modificatio= n. =A0It required a new throttle shaft to be fabricated since it was one pi= ece and the spacing was wrong for the 20B, but Bob Darrah and his Bridgepor= t were happy to help me with that. =A0I'm very happy with the end resul= t.

The nature of the p-port necessitated the TB's to be located very close= to the ports, else I would have gone with a larger single TB feeding into = an airbox like most have done. =A0Not sure that wouldn't work here, but= I've read that with the p-port engine the TB should be as close as pos= sible to the ports. =A0These TB's have the injector bungs cast into the= body just downstream of the butterfly, exactly as I needed. =A0Low end per= formance has improved considerably. =A0I just need to figure out why the #1= rotor cuts out in mid-range.

Mark S.

This message, and the documents attached hereto, is intended only for= the addressee and may contain privileged or confidential information. Any = unauthorized disclosure is strictly prohibited. If you have received this m= essage in error, please notify us immediately so that we may correct our in= ternal records. Please then delete the original message. Thank you.

--
Homepage: =A0http:/= /www.flyrotary.com/
Archive and UnSub: =A0 http://mail.lancaironline.net:81/lists= /flyrotary/List.html

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