X-Virus-Scanned: clean according to Sophos on Logan.com Return-Path: Received: from imr-da05.mx.aol.com ([205.188.105.147] verified) by logan.com (CommuniGate Pro SMTP 5.4.4) with ESMTP id 5389093 for flyrotary@lancaironline.net; Thu, 09 Feb 2012 09:27:58 -0500 Received-SPF: pass receiver=logan.com; client-ip=205.188.105.147; envelope-from=Lehanover@aol.com Received: from mtaomg-mb02.r1000.mx.aol.com (mtaomg-mb02.r1000.mx.aol.com [172.29.41.73]) by imr-da05.mx.aol.com (8.14.1/8.14.1) with ESMTP id q19EREnn006865 for ; Thu, 9 Feb 2012 09:27:14 -0500 Received: from core-mob001b.r1000.mail.aol.com (core-mob001.r1000.mail.aol.com [172.29.194.193]) by mtaomg-mb02.r1000.mx.aol.com (OMAG/Core Interface) with ESMTP id D3FF2E000089 for ; Thu, 9 Feb 2012 09:27:13 -0500 (EST) From: Lehanover@aol.com Message-ID: <54c85.2166ccbc.3c6531c0@aol.com> Date: Thu, 9 Feb 2012 09:27:13 -0500 (EST) Subject: Re: [FlyRotary] Re: one more thing. Or EGTs again. To: flyrotary@lancaironline.net MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="part1_54c85.2166ccbc.3c6531c0_boundary" X-Mailer: AOL 9.6 sub 5004 X-Originating-IP: [97.96.76.144] x-aol-global-disposition: G DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=mx.aol.com; s=20110426; t=1328797634; bh=Hcxbe6tc0+lW3m23/GfnvaS6E+cVanCFqNybC5NgD7c=; h=From:To:Subject:Message-ID:Date:MIME-Version:Content-Type; b=WLjxZGLdM0GGoadB9uZWHrNnTS6MEuJYuYpDV/DHRcu72/8A3GbaahCDL7C5tJAVf hyWiGAWjNmLZS83CUw+fp9mii2QBtHPThrz1rjTKIgabDrBPrjxz+8mynx6xQj3b68 BZygCF8r32Nlkv5O7tTEE5o3vUfdP7GM8QRHG0XA= X-AOL-SCOLL-SCORE: 0:2:417655200:93952408 X-AOL-SCOLL-URL_COUNT: 0 x-aol-sid: 3039ac1d29494f33d7c150aa --part1_54c85.2166ccbc.3c6531c0_boundary Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Content-Language: en An early side ported intake/peripheral exhaust ported engine is the =20 baseline. The early side ported engine converted to a periphery intake, is an aberration, similar to the factory pure race engines. The Renesis engine with side intake and side exhaust ports with zero overlap and very = =20 little exhaust dilution of the intake is a similar but very different engin= e=20 from other rotaries. Any of these with a turbocharger added=20 becomes yet again another animal. All of these have home built intakes and = =20 home built exhaust systems. One of the results will be no two will produce = =20 the same outcome in any parameter.=20 =20 The object of the EGT gage is to be able to see the combustion process in = =20 near real time. So, the probes should be about 3" out from the port face. I= f=20 there is a curve in the pipe the probe should be on the outside of that=20 curve where the probe will be bathed in the flow.=20 And still there is no guarantee of success only an improved likelihood. =20 Reverse the connections at the gage face to see if the readings follow the = =20 reversal. They should or the gage is faulty. Reverse the probes in the=20 header to see if one just reads higher all of the time. If all is well in = the=20 gage system reverse two the injectors and see if the EGT reading follows t= he=20 injector switch. =20 It is two single rotor engines sharing a crank shaft. You may never get the= =20 same EGTs on both housings.=20 =20 Try for EGT below 1650 at wide open throttle full rich mixture at cruise= =20 speed. Add fuel to reduce the EGT (fuel cooling the engine). Peripheral =20 exhaust ports using stock apex seals only I have no experience with side ex= haust=20 ports. Best power will be the same as a piston engine, or about 50 degrees= =20 rich of peak EGT. However, piston engine EGTs may only be 1550 or so,=20 while rotary peaks may be above 1900 degrees.=20 Very bad for stock apex seals. So we stay well rich of peak EGT or lean of peak EGT to attain the same low number. Very easy with the reduced = =20 fuel flow. =20 Aircraft engines have a much higher duty cycle than even a racing engine.= =20 Using stock spark plugs in an aircraft engine is uninformed at best. The = =20 racing plug gifted by Mazda to successful racers is the NGK R6725=3D115 Or = =20 Resistor plug PN 6725 in the 11.5 heat range. =20 Colder than the coldest street plug the 10 heat range. This plug is a =20 retracted tip single side electrode and comes out of the box gapped at arou= nd =20 .017" =20 =20 I reduce that gap to .010" and I run a MSD 6AL on both leading and =20 trailing.=20 =20 Why? =20 Because we think in terms of the piston engine where the mixture is pressed= =20 to the end of a tube with the plug in the center. Real handy for getting = =20 consistent performance. In the rotary the mixture goes by the plugs at 100= =20 miles per hour carried by a long strange looking rotor face and being held= =20 against a cold rotor housing while it turns back into droplets. Chances of= =20 this working is low at best.=20 =20 The car engine need only operate well below 4,000 RPM. Not useful for =20 aircraft.=20 =20 If using the stock "Lost spark" system on the leading plugs remember that = =20 the spark gaps are added as in series, and one plug always runs backwards = =20 electrically. So you could run a conventional retracted tip ice cold plug= =20 with a shorter gap and or switch the plug wires or the plugs from time to= =20 time. =20 But I run on as usual.................. =20 Lynn E. Hanover =20 =20 =20 =20 In a message dated 2/9/2012 7:29:24 A.M. Eastern Standard Time, =20 wschertz@comcast.net writes: =20 EGT=E2=80=99s are thermocouples, (Type K), if you want to check the probes,= hook a=20 millivolt reading DVM up to the leads, and raise them to a known=20 temperature (like boiling water). You can get the millivolts vs. temperatu= re from a =20 handbook. My opinion, is that if the settings on the EM2 are identical, the= =20 a difference in the EGT readings when the engine is running is probably = =20 real. =20 Have you tried it with the new plugs? I have the experience that when my = =20 plugs begin to go that I get a big spread in EGT readings, and the engine = =20 doesn=E2=80=99t like full throttle/high rpm=E2=80=99s, put in new plugs and= it smooths out. =20 Bill Schertz KIS Cruiser #4045 N343BS Phase one testing Completed --part1_54c85.2166ccbc.3c6531c0_boundary Content-Type: text/html; charset="UTF-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Content-Language: en
An early side ported intake/peripheral exhaust ported engine is the=20 baseline. The early side ported engine converted to a periphery intake,
is an aberration, similar to the factory pure race engines. The=20 Renesis
engine with side intake and side exhaust ports with zero overlap and v= ery=20 little exhaust dilution of the intake is a similar but very different engin= e=20 from other rotaries. Any of these with a turbocharger added 
becomes yet again another animal. All of these have home built intakes= and=20 home built exhaust systems. One of the results will be no two will pro= duce=20 the same outcome in any parameter.
 
The object of the EGT gage is to be able to see the combustion process= in=20 near real time. So, the probes should be about 3" out from the port face. I= f=20 there is a curve in the pipe the probe should be on the outside of that cur= ve=20 where the probe will be bathed in the flow.
And still there is no guarantee of success only an improved=20 likelihood.
 
Reverse the connections at the gage face to see if the readings follow= the=20 reversal. They should or the gage is faulty. Reverse the probes in the head= er to=20 see if one just reads higher all of the time. If all is well in the ga= ge=20 system reverse two the injectors and see if the EGT reading follows the inj= ector=20 switch.
 
It is two single rotor engines sharing a crank shaft. You may never ge= t the=20 same EGTs on both housings.
 
Try for EGT below 1650 at wide open throttle full rich mixture at= =20 cruise speed. Add fuel to reduce the EGT (fuel cooling the engine). Periphe= ral=20 exhaust ports using stock apex seals only I have no experience with side ex= haust=20 ports. Best power will be the same as a piston engine, or about 50 degrees = rich=20 of peak EGT. However, piston engine EGTs may only be 1550 or so, while rota= ry=20 peaks may be above 1900 degrees.
Very bad for stock apex seals. So we stay well rich of peak EGT or
lean of peak EGT to attain the same low number. Very easy with the red= uced=20 fuel flow.
 
Aircraft engines have a much higher duty cycle than even a racing= =20 engine. Using stock spark plugs in an aircraft engine is uninformed at best= . The=20 racing plug gifted by Mazda to successful racers is the NGK R6725=3D115 Or= =20 Resistor plug PN 6725 in the 11.5 heat range.
 
Colder than the coldest street plug the 10 heat range. This plug is a= =20 retracted tip single side electrode and comes out of the box gapped at arou= nd=20 .017"  
 
I reduce that gap to .010" and I run a MSD 6AL on both leading and=20 trailing.
 
Why?
 
Because we think in terms of the piston engine where the mixture is pr= essed=20 to the end of a tube with the plug in the center. Real handy for getting=20 consistent performance. In the rotary the mixture goes by the plugs at 100 = miles=20 per hour carried by a long strange looking rotor face and being held= =20 against a cold rotor housing while it turns back into droplets. Chances of = this=20 working is low at best.
 
The car engine need only operate well below 4,000 RPM. Not useful for= =20 aircraft.
 
If using the stock "Lost spark" system on the leading plugs remember t= hat=20 the spark gaps are added as in series, and one plug always runs backwards= =20 electrically. So you could run a conventional retracted tip ice cold= =20 plug with a shorter gap and or switch the plug wires or the plugs from= time=20 to time.
 
But I run on as usual..................
 
Lynn E. Hanover
  
 
 
 
In a message dated 2/9/2012 7:29:24 A.M. Eastern Standard Time,=20 wschertz@comcast.net writes:
=
EGT=E2=80=99s are thermocouples, (Type K), if you want to check the = probes, hook=20 a millivolt reading DVM up to the leads, and raise them to a known temper= ature=20 (like boiling water). You can get the millivolts vs. temperature from a= =20 handbook. My opinion, is that if the settings on the EM2 are identical, t= he a=20 difference in the EGT readings when the engine is running is probably=20 real.
 
Have you tried it with the new plugs? I have the experience that whe= n my=20 plugs begin to go that I get a big spread in EGT readings, and the engine= =20 doesn=E2=80=99t like full throttle/high rpm=E2=80=99s, put in new plugs a= nd it smooths=20 out.
 
Bill= =20 Schertz
KIS Cruiser #4045
N343BS
Phase one testing=20 Completed
--part1_54c85.2166ccbc.3c6531c0_boundary--