X-Virus-Scanned: clean according to Sophos on Logan.com Return-Path: Received: from nm4-vm0.access.bullet.mail.mud.yahoo.com ([66.94.237.138] verified) by logan.com (CommuniGate Pro SMTP 5.4.3) with SMTP id 5358453 for flyrotary@lancaironline.net; Fri, 20 Jan 2012 21:16:04 -0500 Received-SPF: none receiver=logan.com; client-ip=66.94.237.138; envelope-from=ceengland@bellsouth.net Received: from [66.94.237.199] by nm4.access.bullet.mail.mud.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 21 Jan 2012 02:15:29 -0000 Received: from [98.139.244.50] by tm10.access.bullet.mail.mud.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 21 Jan 2012 02:15:29 -0000 Received: from [127.0.0.1] by smtp112.sbc.mail.bf1.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 21 Jan 2012 02:15:29 -0000 DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=bellsouth.net; s=s1024; t=1327112129; bh=4T6UOZ1tJc7mAO378KgkfIsh9QPLmjRj8iv2yiKxLR0=; h=X-Yahoo-Newman-Id:X-Yahoo-Newman-Property:X-YMail-OSG:X-Yahoo-SMTP:Received:Message-ID:Date:From:User-Agent:MIME-Version:To:Subject:References:In-Reply-To:Content-Type; b=zEL9eFEiyOKTuv+S4EroPNITjbhmr66LSqB+fma1MFlOAFuslqCTPQRcueNEkxMra1cWjTZ8roS7VueNR8nt5TQC5hRVcSAotFkZix/I99OFs2FK0dwZPZQ5YLAOyr+BiBpSlMN1Ll713fcTD1Or4cwv7wnaEZ5hgCB8pElT4Nw= X-Yahoo-Newman-Id: 368066.70236.bm@smtp112.sbc.mail.bf1.yahoo.com X-Yahoo-Newman-Property: ymail-3 X-YMail-OSG: 6peclN4VM1lEAnJWu5QwvSByufH61PbHlLR2GbmpEhGsFVB I0meds7KhxRV_vbwv1EKB0enTtNW2oQx52LNQ5GG.OaMmuVgcDfvELzSlmgn ahxCGebVWcr7CD86p_wRFgA4.q6EcUrAhbgWvNvx0.SSSG2nSwYxdZDLCJEl A9g3Bosu4ALXfgTqyNHV.Bec260zRxx4kTqJFfXGVnY5okUK3.Dx_RXOYJLM I0p3.jdtzZt8maNcCywnMP7IsMt0m5iPipIPCi_eDvWH2CNCEzXLUOWjmVmd vZdu70pfxtOPdIyuXcN4rUUe9XLgjxAxkcit8R8h21ljCVN3Eo7xDMHq2hcP DPOZOcJUA4houeauOXmEnMeyfDU9e_pmT_ypLFUY0DUL.GtEOtNplcXklkwo qv4_vHbg2HRefE2kekkq3LQ3vwr.46Z.sbnTy.pwdhmLt5h3LSm8eDXkzFX3 Dy3Op_RbXOSeO2FA- X-Yahoo-SMTP: uXJ_6LOswBCr8InijhYErvjWlJuRkoKPGNeiuu7PA.5wcGoy Received: from [192.168.10.30] (ceengland@98.95.234.229 with plain) by smtp112.sbc.mail.bf1.yahoo.com with SMTP; 20 Jan 2012 18:15:28 -0800 PST Message-ID: <4F1A1FBF.50400@bellsouth.net> Date: Fri, 20 Jan 2012 20:15:27 -0600 From: Charlie England User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (X11; Linux x86_64; rv:7.0.1) Gecko/20110929 Thunderbird/7.0.1 MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Rotary motors in aircraft Subject: Re: [FlyRotary] Re: P-port breakthrough References: In-Reply-To: Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="------------070802080200010704040705" This is a multi-part message in MIME format. --------------070802080200010704040705 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Assuming well designed intake & exhaust manifolds (& substantially equal MAP in each rotor measured at the same intake position of each rotor), do you need 3 feeds to one sensor? Have you tried using just one, with a small air reservoir for 'inertial damping' (averaging) of the fluctuating MAP on that line? I'd expect that the computer is taking 'snapshots' of MAP, & if there's no plenum to give it an averaged pressure to look at, then the snapshots would be all over the map (pardon the pun...). Also, I assume that there's no way to force the computer to take its snapshot a user-selectable point in the intake cycle, right? Charlie On 01/20/2012 07:02 PM, Mark Steitle wrote: > Tracy, > > OK, what you said just registered in the grey matter. Any ideas on > what to do if the MAP does't come up fast enough resulting in bogging? > Calibrated air bleeds? > > Mark > > On Fri, Jan 20, 2012 at 6:46 PM, Mark Steitle > wrote: > > Tracy, > > Thanks, I'll check that, but remember... I've got three of those > "suckers" and they're working overtime. > > Mark > > On Fri, Jan 20, 2012 at 5:27 PM, Tracy > wrote: > > Sounds like it's working for you but if those check valves are > "good" ie, don't leak, the MP won't go up fast enough at the > EC2/3 port and the engine will probably bog down and die when > you open the throttle (especially if done rapidly).. Check > your throttle response to be sure the EC2/3 sees the true MP > when you go to WFO. > > Tracy > > > > On Fri, Jan 20, 2012 at 6:04 PM, Mark Steitle > > wrote: > > I made a major breakthrough today. In preparation for > hooking up my new Hytek data logger, I decided that it > would be a good idea to install check valves in the vacuum > lines leading from each rotor housing. (For those who are > unaware, I am running a peripheral port 3-rotor with a > slide throttle TB.) My system measures MAP from the > unused oil injection ports in each rotor housing. Not > sure what possessed me to do a ground run right then, but > I decided to do a ground run after installing the check > valves. Now keep in mind that typical MAP readings at > idle up to this point was approx. 17". This has been > bugging me, but it didn't stop me from flying. Well, > today's MAP readings were in the 14.4" - 15.0" range. > Then it dawned on me that the way the vacuum lines were > plumbed the EC-2 would see an average of all three rotors. > Since each rotor is 120* (crank degrees) apart in their > 4-stroke cycle, the MAP would be quite a bit different for > each rotor. By installing check valves in the vacuum > lines, I have now isolated each rotor from the other two > and am measuring the lowest vacuum. Idle is now down to a > respectable 1500 rpm, but the mixture has gone way lean, > so it appears that a re-tune is in order. I'll probably > re-set the EC-2 to the factory defaults and start the > process over from the very beginning. > > I would like to strongly suggest to anyone that is > measuring MAP in the rotor housings to install check > valves in each of the lines. Your EC-2/3 will thank you > for it. > > Mark > > > > --------------070802080200010704040705 Content-Type: text/html; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Assuming well designed intake & exhaust manifolds (& substantially equal MAP in each rotor measured at the same intake position of each rotor), do you need 3 feeds to one sensor? Have you tried using just one, with a small air reservoir for 'inertial damping' (averaging) of the fluctuating MAP on that line? I'd expect that the computer is taking 'snapshots' of MAP, & if there's no plenum to give it an averaged pressure to look at, then the snapshots would be all over the map (pardon the pun...). Also, I assume that there's no way to force the computer to take its snapshot a user-selectable point in the intake cycle, right?

Charlie

On 01/20/2012 07:02 PM, Mark Steitle wrote:
Tracy, 

OK, what you said just registered in the grey matter.  Any ideas on what to do if the MAP does't come up fast enough resulting in bogging?  Calibrated air bleeds?

Mark

On Fri, Jan 20, 2012 at 6:46 PM, Mark Steitle <msteitle@gmail.com> wrote:
Tracy, 

Thanks, I'll check that, but remember... I've got three of those "suckers" and they're working overtime.

Mark  

On Fri, Jan 20, 2012 at 5:27 PM, Tracy <rwstracy@gmail.com> wrote:
Sounds like it's working for you but if those check valves are "good" ie, don't leak,  the MP won't go up fast enough at the EC2/3 port and the engine will probably bog down and die when you open the throttle (especially if done rapidly)..   Check your throttle response to be sure the EC2/3 sees the true MP when you go to WFO.

Tracy

 

On Fri, Jan 20, 2012 at 6:04 PM, Mark Steitle <msteitle@gmail.com> wrote:
I made a major breakthrough today.  In preparation for hooking up my new Hytek data logger, I decided that it would be a good idea to install check valves in the vacuum lines leading from each rotor housing.  (For those who are unaware, I am running a peripheral port 3-rotor with a slide throttle TB.)  My system measures MAP from the unused oil injection ports in each rotor housing.  Not sure what possessed me to do a ground run right then, but I decided to do a ground run after installing the check valves.  Now keep in mind that typical MAP readings at idle up to this point was approx. 17".  This has been bugging me, but it didn't stop me from flying.  Well, today's MAP readings were in the 14.4" - 15.0" range.  Then it dawned on me that the way the vacuum lines were plumbed the EC-2 would see an average of all three rotors.  Since each rotor is 120* (crank degrees) apart in their 4-stroke cycle, the MAP would be quite a bit different for each rotor.  By installing check valves in the vacuum lines, I have now isolated each rotor from the other two and am measuring the lowest vacuum.  Idle is now down to a respectable 1500 rpm, but the mixture has gone way lean, so it appears that a re-tune is in order.  I'll probably re-set the EC-2 to the factory defaults and start the process over from the very beginning.  

I would like to strongly suggest to anyone that is measuring MAP in the rotor housings to install check valves in each of the lines.  Your EC-2/3 will thank you for it.  

Mark




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