X-Virus-Scanned: clean according to Sophos on Logan.com Return-Path: Received: from nm2-vm0.bullet.mail.sp2.yahoo.com ([98.139.91.248] verified) by logan.com (CommuniGate Pro SMTP 5.4.3) with SMTP id 5351352 for flyrotary@lancaironline.net; Sun, 15 Jan 2012 15:41:05 -0500 Received-SPF: none receiver=logan.com; client-ip=98.139.91.248; envelope-from=roundrocktom@yahoo.com Received: from [98.139.91.66] by nm2.bullet.mail.sp2.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 15 Jan 2012 20:40:29 -0000 Received: from [98.139.91.42] by tm6.bullet.mail.sp2.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 15 Jan 2012 20:40:29 -0000 Received: from [127.0.0.1] by omp1042.mail.sp2.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 15 Jan 2012 20:40:29 -0000 X-Yahoo-Newman-Property: ymail-3 X-Yahoo-Newman-Id: 360289.27277.bm@omp1042.mail.sp2.yahoo.com Received: (qmail 78314 invoked by uid 60001); 15 Jan 2012 20:40:28 -0000 DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=yahoo.com; s=s1024; t=1326660028; bh=RZvzXZtGTtg+qVMTHj4WiDB7sOhp9KbNh2bcM3rxsM4=; h=X-YMail-OSG:Received:X-Mailer:References:Message-ID:Date:From:Reply-To:Subject:To:In-Reply-To:MIME-Version:Content-Type; b=TlGYU9ZDd8ajsQOLIZfV7hFVQ9d3eVaNQR9cdr1HAZmiRy7MdjG4PDJDRIP0zQpbzf90R/fgxWnwLRoSiIVPn9NbgU0rm9G/Z8Lk+m4fBdWU5AMYBYP585q85oUArEQmkQQ593HdG90QqV5KVMCDcI7/ZcBKYcUQjYiBL7xmq6c= DomainKey-Signature:a=rsa-sha1; q=dns; c=nofws; s=s1024; d=yahoo.com; h=X-YMail-OSG:Received:X-Mailer:References:Message-ID:Date:From:Reply-To:Subject:To:In-Reply-To:MIME-Version:Content-Type; b=XlHG7OtKxcH2Ty3iGwwJ4LoFIhcT3qYFwHpo/hjXongfVx+3eRnjTPLniTsGLnhFg8odc/Lch1aINp8N8YuSsvZqO5fNJEIvbBpdyMlfJZq/5AU2RAa91lYiCrE3Edhf9bNXSXkBhQpCZ98fhUk1Sd2FNxdCcMvni/YfZyucfIY=; X-YMail-OSG: m_70SqgVM1mDlpMoW2a_fek2_E840uDnfYDNzngukDcNk0x 03DhWJMraUqgPUXKkcdXf.yP8WaGCEV1rFugzW3pp.F6_k_CVc2.EcC3ybJ7 jKACMGNRDcZDiQBLTnMU6mFg3yDZzXdUHPyUwdstjssuyFsELMn7OIiUsSDn aRdP10Jp83whGmFxetUGA2hSWtT0bA_l6qTR1PYZ3UmOeCfuKLma6YWu6c4n q6zDAMe3cMcR7FGbYPqVkptTtUiRR0Ij9VS4cU7hVC_FsXKuvLPf31nyMqV3 UrG6YDHuYm0Temv2cfU.YvBpvqSbcx5N_StqUCPByNfeiWZoa2qQkoPe8r0M stOEPpFIYno6A0ViCQ8yaFgbCF7D_mCJMe8cAK6yRVNGB2pQ2dcjMj4K5bKl NsqPKdsYPv2mzwbBSW1GcdZgE_kKLgi3GIH4vZn_zwYlCn8lRj682vXoMFOv _DC37KANNAxgqQLqNwubbvnergrH6IxsUuUbScqMbSqHqk8ueiQSL5slzLak vmITknI60V_YuPPmWEzALC1cpZwXLovM83eJp5IR3Gyy7.y1N9j3jiGRccCM jTg5cj9Ru5ZyU87wnbRoE1e3EUaO7z8qAb739lQlLGXmLi9DTriqeDHjS5hp cm8B9W2ndeFV2GUJY4bAzrCfbZyIaOeOZRboIgpcpFcEXTmzIUPzE0mNVMPz Ws5_c Received: from [72.182.13.58] by web111513.mail.gq1.yahoo.com via HTTP; Sun, 15 Jan 2012 12:40:28 PST X-Mailer: YahooMailWebService/0.8.116.331537 References: Message-ID: <1326660028.62240.YahooMailNeo@web111513.mail.gq1.yahoo.com> Date: Sun, 15 Jan 2012 12:40:28 -0800 (PST) From: Tom Walter Reply-To: Tom Walter Subject: Re: [FlyRotary] Re: Newbie to list To: Rotary motors in aircraft In-Reply-To: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="-598724244-1136935785-1326660028=:62240" ---598724244-1136935785-1326660028=:62240 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Gordon,=0A=0AWhy Turbo 13B's?=C2=A0 Land Speed record? Defiant normally is = built with two 0-320's,plenty of redundant power in case of one engine dyin= g. So a NA 13B would still begood for 160-180hp depending on tune.=C2=A0 Ju= st the added weight and complexity of =C2=A0 turbo's makes is a bit more of= a challenge.=0A=0AA friend of mine flew with his brother to Australia in a= Defiant, two 0-320 160 hp engine. Leaned to 6.5gph during the trip.=C2=A0 = Large fuel bladder taking up the rear seat/cargo area. He only "uh oh" mome= nt was two hours out departing Hawaii when the front engine stopped, with "= that's odd" then the rear engine stopped! Fuel issue they resolved!=0A=0Aht= tp://www.cozybuilders.org/Oshkosh_Presentations/2011_Sorensen_N57KS_oshkosh= _COZY_Forum.pdf=0A=0A=0ACool plane! =0A=0A=0ATom=0A=0A=0A=0A=0A=0A=0A=0A=0A= ________________________________=0A From: Chris Barber =0ATo: Rotary motors in aircraft =0ASe= nt: Sunday, January 15, 2012 1:19 PM=0ASubject: [FlyRotary] Re: Newbie to l= ist=0A =0A=0A =0ABill B said.....help you with almost any problem. We have = had all of them!=0A=C2=A0=0AHey, I am having some issue thinking that is NO= T directed to me.....;-)=C2=A0 Seems I have had them all plus some....but s= o far, only on the ground....so far.=C2=A0 Geesh.=0A=C2=A0=0ANow, Gordon, n= ot to=C2=A0dissuade you, but I=C2=A0gotta ask, why are you wanting to go "p= lugs up"?=C2=A0 Ed mentioned a couple of the advantages (which I consider p= retty minor) and in the old days, IIRC, plugs up was used to allow top clea= rance, especially with the old school distributors.=C2=A0 However, that is = not a big an issue now.=C2=A0 Also, your turbo may take a lot of room unles= s=C2=A0remotely mounted.=C2=A0 I think that the Defiant (kewl plane BTW) ha= s quite a bit a room compared to some planes....EZ's come to mind. Heck, th= e=C2=A0EZ I saw with a rotary must of been installed with a shoe horn.=C2= =A0 While=C2=A0not overly roomy,=C2=A0my turbo rotary 13b, in my Velocity w= ould have been much more difficult, I think, plugs up,=C2=A0especially sinc= e it would have required even more fabrication...which may not be an issue = for you.....=0A=C2=A0=0AChris Barber=0ATurbo Rotary in Velocity SE/FG=0ADyn= on=C2=A0EFIS and EM=0ARWS=C2=A0EM2,=C2=A0EC2 and=C2=A0PSRU RD-b=0AThe tech = took my transponder since it was not properly reporting altitude to have a = look....but when that problems is solved....on to=C2=A0a squawk party and t= hen to call a DAR.....YIKES!=0A=C2=A0=0A=0A________________________________= =0A =0AFrom: Rotary motors in aircraft [flyrotary@lancaironline.net] on beh= alf of Bill Bradburry [bbradburry@bellsouth.net]=0ASent: Sunday, January 15= , 2012 8:25 AM=0ATo: Rotary motors in aircraft=0ASubject: [FlyRotary] Re: N= ewbie to list=0A=0A=0AWelcome, Gordon!=0A=C2=A0=0AWikipedia claims only 100= sets of plans for the Defiant were sold.=C2=A0 How far along is your plane= now?=C2=A0 You will shortly hear from Ed Anderson I am certain.=C2=A0 He i= s the plugs up guru for this list.=C2=A0 You will find a lot of really shar= p guys here that can help you with almost any problem.=C2=A0 We have had al= l of them!=0A=C2=A0=0ABill B=0A=C2=A0=0A=0A________________________________= =0A =0AFrom:Rotary motors in aircraft [mailto:flyrotary@lancaironline.net] = On Behalf Of Gordon Alling=0ASent: Sunday, January 15, 2012 8:30 AM=0ATo: R= otary motors in aircraft=0ASubject: [FlyRotary] Newbie to list=0A=C2=A0=0AH= i all,=0A=C2=A0=0AI=E2=80=99m new to the flyrotary (FR) list and am buildin= g a Defiant with two turbo 13Bs.=C2=A0 I am looking at mounting the engines= =E2=80=9Cplugs up=E2=80=9D as described by Neil Kruiswyk and tried to cont= act him at the home.com address listed on the FR website.=C2=A0 My e-mail k= eeps bouncing back. =C2=A0Does anyone have a current address for Neil?=0A= =C2=A0=0ABeyond that, I would like to identify others that have mounted the= se engines sideways (plugs-up).=C2=A0 How many hours do your projects have = on these installations?=C2=A0 What issues have you uncovered that may be re= lated to the plugs-up orientation?=C2=A0 Has anyone found (more than expect= ed) difficulty cooling that may be related to air pockets in the cooling ja= cket?=0A=C2=A0=0AWhat about engine mounting?=C2=A0 How do you grab the engi= ne block?=C2=A0 Have you looked at the stresses at the attach points?=0A=C2= =A0=0AI=E2=80=99m also considering a constant speed prop.=C2=A0 Tracy Crook= advises me that his PSRU will accept only electrically adjustable props an= d I have identified IVO and MT as possible suppliers.=C2=A0 Are there other= electrically adjustable props in this power category?=C2=A0 Are there othe= r PSRUs that accept a hydraulically actuated prop adjustment?=0A=C2=A0=0ATh= anks in advance for any advice you all can offer.=0A=C2=A0=0AGordon C. Alli= ng, Jr., PE=0APresident=0Aacumen Engineering/Analysis, Inc.=0A=C2=A0=0A540-= 786-2200=0Awww.acumen-ea.com ---598724244-1136935785-1326660028=:62240 Content-Type: text/html; charset=utf-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
Gordon,

Why Turbo 13B'= s?  Land Speed record? Defiant normally is built with two 0-320's, plenty of redundant power in case of one engine dying. So a NA 13= B would still be good for 160-180hp depending on tune.  J= ust the added weight and complexity of   turbo's makes is a bit more o= f a challenge.

A friend = of mine flew with his brother to Australia in a Defiant, two 0-320 160 hp e= ngine. Leaned to 6.5gph during the trip.  Large fuel bladder taking up= the rear seat/cargo area. He only "uh oh" moment was two hours out departi= ng Hawaii when the front engine stopped, with "that's odd" then the rear en= gine stopped! Fuel issue they resolved!

http://www.co= zybuilders.org/Oshkosh_Presentations/2011_Sorensen_N57KS_oshkosh_COZY_Forum= .pdf

Cool plane!

Tom
<= br>





<= /span>

From: Chris Barber <cbarber@texasattor= ney.net>
To: Rotary= motors in aircraft <flyrotary@lancaironline.net>
Sent: Sunday, January 15, 2012 1:1= 9 PM
Subject: [FlyRota= ry] Re: Newbie to list

=0A
= =0A=0A =0A=0A=0A
=0A
=0A
Bill B said.....help you with almost any problem. We have had all of them!<= /font>
=0A
 =0A
Hey, I am having some iss= ue thinking that is NOT directed to me.....;-)  Seems I have had them = all plus some....but so far, only on the ground....so far.  Geesh.=
=0A
 
=0A=
Now, Gordon, not to dissua= de you, but I gotta ask, why are you wanting to g= o "plugs up"?  Ed mentioned a couple of the advantages (which I consid= er pretty minor) and in the old days, IIRC,=0A plugs up was used to allow top = clearance, especially with the old school distributors.  However, that= is not a big an issue now.  Also, your turbo may take a lot of room u= nless remotely mounted= .  I think that the Defiant (kewl=0A plane BTW) has quite a bit a room co= mpared to some planes....EZ's come to mind. Heck, the EZ I saw with a rotary= must of been installed with a shoe horn.  While not overly roomy= , my turbo rotary 13b<= a rel=3D"nofollow">,=0A in my Velocity would have been much more diffic= ult, I think, plugs up, especially since it wo= uld have required even more fabrication...which may not be an issue for you= .....
=0A
&nb= sp;
=0A
Chris Barber=
=0A
Turbo Rotary in Veloci= ty SE/FG
=0A
Dynon EFIS=0A and EM
=0A
RWS EM2, EC2 and PSRU RD-b
=0A
T= he tech took my transponder since it was not properly reporting altitude to= have a look....but when that problems is solved....on to a squawk par= ty and then to call a DAR.....YIKES!
=0A
 
=0A
=0A
=0A
From: Rotary motors in aircraft [flyro= tary@lancaironline.net] on behalf of Bill Bradburry [bbradburry@bellsouth.n= et]
=0ASent: Sunday, January 15, 2012 8:25 AM
=0ATo: Ro= tary motors in aircraft
=0ASubject: [FlyRotary] Re: Newbie to lis= t
=0A
=0A
=0A
=0A
=0A
=0A
Welcome, Gordon!
=0A
 =0A
= Wikipedia claims only 100 sets of plans for the Defiant were sold.  Ho= w far along is your plane now?  You will shortly hear from Ed=0A Ander= son I am certain.  He is the plugs up guru for this list.  You wi= ll find a lot of really sharp guys here that can help you with almost any p= roblem.  We have had all of them!
=0A
&nbs= p;
=0A
Bill B
=0A
<= font size=3D"2" color=3D"navy" face=3D"Arial"> 
=0A
=0A
=0A
=0A
=0A
From: = Rotary motors in aircraft [mailto:flyrotary@lancaironline.net]=0AOn Behalf Of Gordon Alling
=0A<= span style=3D"FONT-WEIGHT:bold;">Sent: Sunday, January 15, 2012 = 8:30 AM
=0ATo: Rotary mo= tors in aircraft
=0ASubject:= [FlyRotary] Newbie to list<= /span>
=0A
=0A
&= nbsp;
=0A
Hi all,
=0A=
 
=0A
I=E2=80=99m new to the flyrotary (FR) list and am building a De= fiant with two turbo 13Bs.  I am looking at mounting the engines =E2= =80=9Cplugs up=E2=80=9D as described by Neil Kruiswyk and tried to contact= =0A him at the home.com a= ddress listed on the FR website.  My e-mail keeps bouncing back.  = ;Does anyone have a current address for Neil?
=0A
 
=0A
Beyond that, I would like to identify others that have mounted these e= ngines sideways (plugs-up).  How many hours do your projects have on t= hese installations?  What issues have=0A you uncovered that may be rel= ated to the plugs-up orientation?  Has anyone found (more than expecte= d) difficulty cooling that may be related to air pockets in the cooling jac= ket?
=0A
 = ;
=0A
What about engine mounting?  Ho= w do you grab the engine block?  Have you looked at the stresses at th= e attach points?
=0A
=  
=0A
I=E2=80=99m also conside= ring a constant speed prop.  Tracy Crook advises me that his PSRU will= accept only electrically adjustable props and I have identified IVO and MT= as possible suppliers. =0A Are there other electrically adjustable pr= ops in this power category?  Are there other PSRUs that accept a hydra= ulically actuated prop adjustment?
=0A
 
=0A
Thanks= in advance for any advice you all can offer.
=0A
 
=0A
Gordon C. Alling, Jr., PE
=0A
President
=0A
acumen=0AEngineering/Analysis, Inc.
=0A
&nb= sp;
=0A
540-786-2200
= =0A
www.acumen-ea.com<= /font>
=0A
 
=0A<= /div>=0A
=0A
=0A
=0A
=0A=0A


=
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