X-Virus-Scanned: clean according to Sophos on Logan.com Return-Path: Received: from nm30.access.bullet.mail.sp2.yahoo.com ([98.139.44.157] verified) by logan.com (CommuniGate Pro SMTP 5.4.2) with SMTP id 5170376 for flyrotary@lancaironline.net; Sun, 23 Oct 2011 23:52:35 -0400 Received-SPF: none receiver=logan.com; client-ip=98.139.44.157; envelope-from=keltro@att.net Received: from [98.139.44.99] by nm30.access.bullet.mail.sp2.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 24 Oct 2011 03:52:01 -0000 Received: from [98.139.44.75] by tm4.access.bullet.mail.sp2.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 24 Oct 2011 03:52:01 -0000 Received: from [127.0.0.1] by omp1012.access.mail.sp2.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 24 Oct 2011 03:52:01 -0000 X-Yahoo-Newman-Property: ymail-3 X-Yahoo-Newman-Id: 26502.5292.bm@omp1012.access.mail.sp2.yahoo.com Received: (qmail 57206 invoked by uid 60001); 24 Oct 2011 03:52:00 -0000 DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=att.net; s=s1024; t=1319428320; bh=99QlEvp1+I22djeOOlhbSzuHrM8kpXQDrpNoIyGrrl0=; h=X-YMail-OSG:Received:X-Mailer:References:Message-ID:Date:From:Reply-To:Subject:To:MIME-Version:Content-Type; b=P5RjWsMr9yk/DsOJshp3Bx0Nn3pGcyigGUohN6POkRFRWe07HNl44Rf31v//CtaJl+onuFTVK3LVal7J5mhSjq6b/KUJLQSm60BLvS0y2Da4E78lKVFT9ElT2g5l9nsGIEzVB3y2zbHcKMd31OizM4fpzfJOn818vRSazrm3TFM= DomainKey-Signature:a=rsa-sha1; q=dns; c=nofws; s=s1024; d=att.net; h=X-YMail-OSG:Received:X-Mailer:References:Message-ID:Date:From:Reply-To:Subject:To:MIME-Version:Content-Type; b=vjZmyvrQCa18wcWflDx1ZzIvTr37s5kt3rVUudrELNg2cGLuntjqXm9IPVZaaOd+ppg8k7J/ZP6J7TS3QHkKBWYn57DeRDe6TIWF+nHFucrw7Co/weIQw2nIWhfTKoYHvHS6sQeBKBBBEpSkdZkVUzzOeP6MrKYtPiIhEHW78m8=; X-YMail-OSG: ZJxkaNUVM1lUazM0OTn8Nh5dTBS79Ug5A4YcUus40BsmODj XKZUz_RtVEoQx_YL95oS9pnohnmoQ1Ef46z428B5HRssb8narljY7mXZSMCQ 6cOBkWlFq1J3flkkPe84sOcSYvV4pKfdCDAiclYb.8QTFCNhSNKV14EQO6Ef pbvpjEZFVni.7DoZzaciYlSwJORW4QXVzuV.mmoe8VbnX5sFZHgdbq5cRGiP InemNpXACGvQ5cVNK5IU15eL05HCWo_EAgWfNSI4xuqjmTx_tsh7xclgHPRm 92d3pPlaJq3uysggEH_khAkwcAER3jI.KtQdD2IdPBZ1KPq52CD2Pjcbqt9K 4pjSVQ3FYRFzbWnkA_kezIlkUa_Ah1vHKIrJx8BQ9frnMCzmjQzPUnQZcIZL ArSqUZhqkCf9sA9Sp8jwuDHr0kj.G_vev9LfJFWNv8_VanVqhm_6atA-- Received: from [208.114.33.176] by web83914.mail.sp1.yahoo.com via HTTP; Sun, 23 Oct 2011 20:52:00 PDT X-Mailer: YahooMailWebService/0.8.114.317681 References: Message-ID: <1319428320.42272.YahooMailNeo@web83914.mail.sp1.yahoo.com> Date: Sun, 23 Oct 2011 20:52:00 -0700 (PDT) From: Kelly Troyer Reply-To: Kelly Troyer Subject: Re: Dave Leonard_Redrive To: Rotary motors in aircraft MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="0-1488737123-1319428320=:42272" --0-1488737123-1319428320=:42272 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Dave,=0A=A0 I am trying to remember how=A0oil gets past the sleeve bearing = to lube the planet and ring gear=0Aof the RD1B..........Wonder if it is pos= sible for the sleeve bearing to turn in the hsg and block=0Alube flow......= ......Considering the size of the sealed front bearing it seems unlikely th= at it would=0Ahave seized............Be sure to let us know what Tracy find= s..........=0A=0AKelly Troyer=0A"DYKE DELTA JD2" (Eventually)=0A"13B ROTARY= "_ Engine=0A"RWS"_RD1C/EC2/EM2=0A"MISTRAL"_Backplate/Oil Manifold=0A"TURBON= ETICS"_TO4E50 Turbo=0A=0A=0A________________________________=0AFrom: David = Leonard =0ATo: Rotary motors in aircraft =0ASent: Sunday, October 23, 2011 9:06 PM=0ASubject: [FlyRo= tary] Re: Dave Leonard_Redrive=0A=0A=0AKelly, =0ANOW you tell me. =A0:-)=0A= =0AUnfortunately, I have not had time to even get to the bearings of the ol= d drive, let alone take apart the new one (which I don't really plan to do.= =0A=0AThat theory does make sense. =A0There was clear evidence that the upp= er planets had overheated while the lower ones did not show heat damage. = =A0That still does not really explain why the bearings=A0seized=A0as well. = =A0They still wont let the prop shaft turn in the housing, so I cant turn t= he access holes in the prop flange to access the=A0Allen=A0screws to releas= e the retainer plate. =A0I'll let Tracy deal with that one.=0A=0AUnfortunat= ely, I have=A0opposite=A0engine offset and vert-stab offset that really wou= ld not like it if I reversed the prop direction. Hmmm. =A0That is an intere= sting problem.. how to cool those upper planets.=0A--=A0=0ADavid Leonard=0A= =0ATurbo Rotary RV-6 N4VY=0Ahttp://N4VY.RotaryRoster.net=0Ahttp://RotaryRos= ter.net=0A=0A=0AOn Sun, Oct 23, 2011 at 5:11 PM, Kelly Troyer wrote:=0A=0ADave,=0A>=A0=0A>=A0=A0 Any firm conclusions=A0for the appar= ent lack of lubrication getting to the upper planets of your=0A>RD1B re-dri= ve during your Reno race heats ?...............I fully realize you were put= ting a lot of=0A>turbo boosted=A0power (probably 250+ hp)=A0through the dri= ve.............Have you had a chance to=0A>inspect the=A0re-drive=A0 that y= ou borrowed for signs of overheat of the upper planets ?..........=0A>=A0= =0A>=A0 Several years ago when the "Ross" re-drives were the only ones avai= lable for the Rotary I=0A>remember reading of a similar problem with the 2.= 17 ratio..........The theory was that because =0A>the 2.17 planet is fixed = with the ring gear rotating around it that centrifugal force at high rpm=0A= >forced the lube from the ring gear and starved the upper planets..........= ...Theory at that time=0A>was the 2.85 and 3.17 re-drives were largely immu= ne to this problem because the ring gear=0A>of these drives is fixed and th= e planet rotates in an oil bath with this same centrifugal force=0A>slingin= g lube directly to the ring gear teeth more or less equally.............FWI= W=0A>Kelly Troyer=0A>"DYKE DELTA JD2" (Eventually)=0A>"13B ROTARY"_ Engine= =0A>"RWS"_RD1C/EC2/EM2=0A>"MISTRAL"_Backplate/Oil Manifold=0A>"TURBONETICS"= _TO4E50 Turbo --0-1488737123-1319428320=:42272 Content-Type: text/html; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
Dave,
  I am trying= to remember how oil gets past the sleeve bearing to lube the planet a= nd ring gear
of the RD1B..........Wonder if it is possible fo= r the sleeve bearing to turn in the hsg and block
lube flow...........= .Considering the size of the sealed front bearing it seems unlikely that it= would
have seized............Be sure = to let us know what Tracy finds..........
&n= bsp;
Kelly Troyer
"DYKE DELTA JD2" (Eventually)
"13B ROTARY"_ Engine
= "RWS"_RD1C/EC2/EM2
"MISTRAL"_Backplate/Oil Manifold
"TURBONETICS"_TO4E50 Tur= bo

From: David Leonard <wdleonard@gmail.com>
To: Rotary motors in aircraft <= flyrotary@lancaironline.net>
Sen= t: Sunday, October 23, 2011 9:06 PM
Subject: [FlyRotary] Re: Dave Leonard_Redrive

Kelly,=20
NOW you tell me.  :-)

Unfortunately, I have not had time to even get to the bearings of the = old drive, let alone take apart the new one (which I don't really plan to d= o.

That theory does make sense.  There was clear evidence that the u= pper planets had overheated while the lower ones did not show heat damage. =  That still does not really explain why the bearings seized = as well.  They still wont let the prop shaft turn in the housing, so I= cant turn the access holes in the prop flange to access the Allen&nbs= p;screws to release the retainer plate.  I'll let Tracy deal with that= one.

Unfortunately, I have opposite engine offset and vert-stab o= ffset that really would not like it if I reversed the prop direction. Hmmm.=  That is an interesting problem.. how to cool those upper planets.
-- 
David Leonard

Turbo Rotary RV-6 N4VY
http://N4VY= .RotaryRoster.net
http://RotaryRoster.net

On Sun, Oct 23, 2011 at 5:11 PM, Kelly= Troyer <keltro@att.net><= /SPAN> wrote:
Dave,
 
   Any firm conclusions for the apparent lack of = lubrication getting to the upper planets of your
RD1B re-drive during your Reno race he= ats ?...............I fully realize you were putting a lot of
turbo boosted power (probably 250+ hp) through the dri= ve.............Have you had a chance to
inspect the re-drive  that y= ou borrowed for signs of overheat of the upper planets ?..........
 
  Several years ago when the "Ross" re-drives were the only ones available for the Rotary I
remember reading of a similar problem with the 2.17 ratio.......= ...The theory was that because
the 2.17 planet is fixed with the ring gear rotating around it t= hat centrifugal force at high rpm
forced the lube from the ring gear and starved the upper planets= .............Theory at that time
was the 2.85 and 3.17 re-drives were l= argely immune to this problem because the ring gear
of these drives is fixed and the planet rotates in an oil bath w= ith this same centrifugal force
slinging lube directly to the ring gear teeth more or less equal= ly.............FWIW
 
Kelly Troyer
"DYKE DELTA JD2"= (Eventually)
"13B ROTARY"_ Engine
"RWS"_RD1C/EC2/EM2
"MISTRAL"_<= SPAN>Backplate/Oil Manifold
"TURBONETICS"_TO4E50 Turbo





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