X-Virus-Scanned: clean according to Sophos on Logan.com Return-Path: Received: from nm11-vm0.bullet.mail.bf1.yahoo.com ([98.139.213.136] verified) by logan.com (CommuniGate Pro SMTP 5.4.1) with SMTP id 5159294 for flyrotary@lancaironline.net; Sun, 16 Oct 2011 21:00:31 -0400 Received-SPF: none receiver=logan.com; client-ip=98.139.213.136; envelope-from=plumberben@yahoo.com Received: from [98.139.215.140] by nm11.bullet.mail.bf1.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 17 Oct 2011 00:59:55 -0000 Received: from [98.139.212.198] by tm11.bullet.mail.bf1.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 17 Oct 2011 00:59:55 -0000 Received: from [127.0.0.1] by omp1007.mail.bf1.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 17 Oct 2011 00:59:55 -0000 X-Yahoo-Newman-Property: ymail-3 X-Yahoo-Newman-Id: 704084.9945.bm@omp1007.mail.bf1.yahoo.com Received: (qmail 44588 invoked by uid 60001); 17 Oct 2011 00:59:55 -0000 DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=yahoo.com; s=s1024; t=1318813195; bh=D71XjGEnMG6kuz/CDDtct1f/J+aOyjcrVEnq7keJdYk=; h=X-YMail-OSG:Received:X-Mailer:Message-ID:Date:From:Subject:To:MIME-Version:Content-Type; b=iHROs0DA672V3/a8h7Pt9vTpXxgOmOLk/L/d5vlNyiH4NYv9jTJO/3mVwXPvA0WrNsK97nFM52bYd4EPZsc4hfO1aM94vgzHCLwo7tnXO64GU9CpC+Y4TBkRXxBGa331BvHV09GtyInr3i5Xm5KH3wyp9sxoRX/EIVq+nv6Pwz4= DomainKey-Signature:a=rsa-sha1; q=dns; c=nofws; s=s1024; d=yahoo.com; h=X-YMail-OSG:Received:X-Mailer:Message-ID:Date:From:Subject:To:MIME-Version:Content-Type; b=wS9ZxWn0emiCwR703c2A6x7ZU100qJ57/AdERCg4u467pInM3zXfzIZl8w4ibMs66lnOcZdIH0+riBH364z4FjEnLbMVs6AGc5Bc0Akc4dm2B5FCHvy5aivOYp7szosvYDSWGxUZk7vkKO0jtNM7qWvMqpWm9fercgCW0HK490c=; X-YMail-OSG: fJ5EAhcVM1lzKj39T..p0uKkrriZhKKFFtqJx9P7JaniLHk 5kGEvbQDAmCtzYZTElVIHVp8QXhjMdjGPYIYHj80Ctt3xM.zOyxPUlwEc1YB 2QI_v8i4tEYla6uESIbiaX6m0UaVTaeAYk4Yyf1kN9tIpi.sYigGBAtzepRk eH3Asq24uJK5i2n5whPVqtEHtLvW3qVquSIajj56F.CfCEOoyT_Ixms8BKHd LWNfH4hyimolD22Npqzre5e.U6qjgcROtDubbe0M9a5mzHvn6HcvyqFRvpIF IgnKBV5VXZI.1Y_MK5Ph2EYDZ7SvrYRL4sQ9dBFSaTwzgK62M94k07fU09M2 58A5Zt4wMmDN.ULZ4P_SVnEF1D.5ioX2.XTU7vZrFNTTGp_ISHaxYFOZQ0z9 MTOKVBE4LXeHjun7Zo1F3IVlGTxu3XcIzI2e1wCS0jCOZF7g2TQN06nTMC4A GLIZWRlQXX5UraJRLDD1htHAklgut8IfWOK8SCNUJ1CEgmxO8lqzFAMAoXnR r4pZ4SIZWJ2zmb42Z7EOGK0KOLS56pjSgtBcsVvBOqyD0MoPm1qmpIZ07Vpm TELx.gW5ZFDTbPfHrgTIOAwdNrHKOtcAoHIdNI657dBLM Received: from [198.229.214.207] by web162011.mail.bf1.yahoo.com via HTTP; Sun, 16 Oct 2011 17:59:55 PDT X-Mailer: YahooMailClassic/14.0.7 YahooMailWebService/0.8.114.317681 Message-ID: <1318813195.43751.YahooMailClassic@web162011.mail.bf1.yahoo.com> Date: Sun, 16 Oct 2011 17:59:55 -0700 (PDT) From: Ben Schneider Subject: Re: [FlyRotary] Re: Bill Eslick's EC2 inspection To: Rotary motors in aircraft MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/mixed; boundary="-1204544801-126722036-1318813195=:43751" ---1204544801-126722036-1318813195=:43751 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="-1204544801-38895568-1318813195=:43751" ---1204544801-38895568-1318813195=:43751 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Fellas, =A0 =A0 After the last round of "cold start switch" debates, I found comfor= t in changing the switched to locking type. The lift and flip type. Now, I = will not argue that not everyone should undergo such delicate surgery on th= e controller, and it is likely that I should not have as well. But in chang= ing to that type of switch, I allowed myself a bit comfort in not accidenta= lly flipping the "push here to crash" button. =A0I am also aware that Tracy= is likely not crazy about people changing his controller, but I decided th= at for me, the risk of flipping the switch accidentally out weighted the ri= sk involved in changing the switch. Your risk calculator may likely come to= a different solution. :) Ben --- On Sun, 10/16/11, Chris Barber wrote: From: Chris Barber Subject: [FlyRotary] Re: Bill Eslick's EC2 inspection To: "Rotary motors in aircraft" Date: Sunday, October 16, 2011, 6:42 PM =0A=0A =0A#yiv1233382030 P {=0AMARGIN-TOP:0px;MARGIN-BOTTOM:0px;}=0A=0A=0A= =0A=0AI think those are too big for the cold start switch.=A0=0A=A0=0AChris= =0A=A0=0A=0AFrom: Rotary motors in aircraft [flyrotary@lancaironline.net] o= n behalf of Ernest Christley [echristley@nc.rr.com] =0ASent: Sunday, October 16, 2011 6:19 PM =0ATo: Rotary motors in aircraft =0ASubject: [FlyRotary] Re: Bill Eslick's EC2 inspection =0A =0A=0A=0AOn 10/15/2011 11:25 AM, =0Abktrub@aol.com wrote:=0A=0AMaybe it wou= ld be a good idea to put a switch guard on the cold start switch. I put a g= uard on after my engine started bogging and I saw that I had inadvertantly = brushed againt the cold start switch while adjusting the mixture. My guard = is just a piece=0A of stainless sheet bent into a U shape that makes it har= d it inadvertantly flip it.=0A=0A=A0=0ABrian Trubee =0A =0A=0A=0AEspecially, considering that mpja.com is practically giving them a= way!! =0A =0Ahttp://www.mpja.com/SAFETY-COVER-FULL-TOGGLE-YELLOW/productinfo/16103+SW= / =0A =0A(they have several other colors, but yellow would be appropriate.) =0A =0A=0A =0A=0A-----Original Message----- =0AFrom: Ed Anderson =0A =0ATo: Rotary motors in aircraft =0A =0ASent: Sat, Oct 15, 2011 6:32 am =0ASubject: [FlyRotary] Re: Bill Eslick's EC2 inspection =0A =0A=0AMy own experience is that when the cold start switch is inappropriate= ly selected=A0 and the engine is running at medium-hight rpm - is that=A0th= e engine does not stop=A0immediately, but starts to bog down, sloppy soundi= ng exhaust and then=0A eventually dies.=A0 But, then I am using 460 cc/min = injectors.=A0 I even found that I could fly (keep engine running) with the = cold start on provided I put the manual mixture control maximum lean and it= was still sloppy sounding - if I had 550 cc/min injectors=0A I doubt that = it would have kept running.=0A=A0=0AMy best SWAG given that Tracy found no = fault and the sudden termination of the engine - is either CAS problem or i= gnition (and it would have to be an ignition problem that would taken out b= oth sets of spark producing devices).=A0 If CAS=0A then that could account = for the sudden stoppage more so than a misplaced cold start switch in my op= inion, but then distant diagnostics is still an evolving "Art". {:>)=0A=A0= =0AEd=0A=A0=0A=A0=0A=0A =0A=0A=0AFrom: =0ADavid Leonard =0ASent: Saturday, October 15, 2011 3:32 AM= =0ATo: =0ARotary motors in aircraft =0ASubject: [FlyRotary] Re: Bill Eslick= 's EC2 inspection=0A=0A=0A =0A=0AMan,=A0 I hate that cold start switch=A0 ;-) =0A =0ADave Leonard =0A =0AOn Fri, Oct 14, 2011 at 1:02 PM, Tracy wrote: =0A=0AThought the group would like to hear what i found when I Finally had = a chance to closely examine Bill's EC2. =A0 I was hoping to find a definiti= ve reason behind his sudden and complete loss of power on takeoff on his la= st flight. =0A =0AOn powering it up on the bench I found both A and B controllers Working = normally. =A0 Bill noted in his report that in the 'Fly The Plane' situatio= n =A0called for in a power failure during takeoff he had not tried switchin= g to controller B. =A0It does not appear=0A that it would have done any goo= d this time. =0A =0ANone of the parameters were set outside the expected range so no sign of= data corruption. =A0In fact the only thing notable about the data download= ed from it was the unusually smooth programming of the MAP table. =A0Most o= f the time I find units returned for updates=0A with choppy looking data in= the table indicating a lack of care or proper methodology in setting it up= . =A0A and B controllers had identical data. =0A =0AThe PCM was also returned with the unit so just in case the control pane= l was the cause I substituted it for the bench test panel I normally use. = =A0 Thought I saw a problem because the injection pulse width was so large = that it could well have caused engine=0A flooding. =A0This was caused by th= e mixture control being set fairly high and the cold start switch being in = the on position. =A0This does not prove anything because that could easily = have happened during removal of the panel from the plane or while packing i= t=0A for shipping. =A0When the switch and mixture control was returned to n= ormal settings the injection pulse width returned to normal. =0A =0ARan the unit on the bench for several hours while heating and subjecting= it to vibration but nothing else turned up. =0A =0ATracy =0A-- =0AHomepage: =A0http://www.flyrotary.com/ =0AArchive and UnSub: =A0 =0Ahttp://mail.lancaironline.net:81/lists/flyrota= ry/List.html =0A=0A=0A =0A =0A =0A--=20 =0ADavid Leonard =0A =0ATurbo Rotary RV-6 N4VY =0Ahttp://N4VY.RotaryRoster.net =0Ahttp://RotaryRoster.net =0A=0A=0A=0A =0A=0A=0A=0A=0A=0A ---1204544801-38895568-1318813195=:43751 Content-Type: text/html; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
Fellas,

    Afte= r the last round of "cold start switch" debates, I found comfort in changin= g the switched to locking type. The lift and flip type. Now, I will not arg= ue that not everyone should undergo such delicate surgery on the controller= , and it is likely that I should not have as well. But in changing to that = type of switch, I allowed myself a bit comfort in not accidentally flipping= the "push here to crash" button.  I am also aware that Tracy is likel= y not crazy about people changing his controller, but I decided that for me= , the risk of flipping the switch accidentally out weighted the risk involv= ed in changing the switch. Your risk calculator may likely come to a differ= ent solution. :)

Ben

--- On Sun, 10/= 16/11, Chris Barber <cbarber@texasattorney.net> wrote:

From: Chris Barber <cbarber@texa= sattorney.net>
Subject: [FlyRotary] Re: Bill Eslick's EC2 inspection<= br>To: "Rotary motors in aircraft" <flyrotary@lancaironline.net>
D= ate: Sunday, October 16, 2011, 6:42 PM

=0A= =0A =0A