X-Virus-Scanned: clean according to Sophos on Logan.com Return-Path: Received: from [64.129.170.194] (HELO VIRCOM1.fcdata.private) by logan.com (CommuniGate Pro SMTP 5.4.1) with ESMTP id 5159258 for flyrotary@lancaironline.net; Sun, 16 Oct 2011 20:21:38 -0400 Received-SPF: none receiver=logan.com; client-ip=64.129.170.194; envelope-from=cbarber@texasattorney.net Received: from FCD-MAIL05.FCDATA.PRIVATE ([fe80::809d:a06e:5913:452e]) by FCD-MAIL06.FCDATA.PRIVATE ([fe80::697f:d6aa:b87:78d8%17]) with mapi id 14.01.0339.001; Sun, 16 Oct 2011 19:21:11 -0500 From: Chris Barber To: Rotary motors in aircraft Subject: Switch guards was [FlyRotary] Re: Bill Eslick's EC2 inspection Thread-Topic: Switch guards was [FlyRotary] Re: Bill Eslick's EC2 inspection Thread-Index: AQHMjGJSZmV3axloiEiM2dl7pU50kw== Date: Mon, 17 Oct 2011 00:20:54 +0000 Message-ID: <2D41F9BF3B5F9842B164AF93214F3D30B5D03C10@FCD-MAIL05.FCDATA.PRIVATE> Accept-Language: en-US Content-Language: en-US X-MS-Has-Attach: X-MS-TNEF-Correlator: x-originating-ip: [99.98.105.202] Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="_000_2D41F9BF3B5F9842B164AF93214F3D30B5D03C10FCDMAIL05FCDATA_" MIME-Version: 1.0 --_000_2D41F9BF3B5F9842B164AF93214F3D30B5D03C10FCDMAIL05FCDATA_ Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Sorry. Meant to change subject heading. Also, sorry for poorly worded pos= t. It is hard to type with one hand since my shoulder surgery last week. ________________________________ From: Rotary motors in aircraft [flyrotary@lancaironline.net] on behalf of = Chris Barber [cbarber@texasattorney.net] Sent: Sunday, October 16, 2011 7:15 PM To: Rotary motors in aircraft Subject: [FlyRotary] Re: Bill Eslick's EC2 inspection On the topic of switch guards, I was very surprised at the extremely scant = availability. I found the .5 inch one mentioned abundantly, however any ot= her types were just seemingly unavailable. i found one I did like but the = only manufacturer stated contact their venders, and then when i told them n= one of their venders had any, and they even verified this, they said they w= ould make me a deal if i ordered only 250 and pay tooling cost....thanks bu= t no. What I wanted was the ability to secure standard .5 inch toggle switches on= during flight since some of my toggles being on is mission critical, like = my primary batt and primary fuel pump. I currently have the previously men= tioned guard installed upside down on my primary batt so as to have the swi= tch activated when the guard is closed. while it works as desired in this = application, it is big and kinda ugly. seems I remember spring bars that w= ould hold a row of toggles in one position back in my days of youth, perhap= s in twins, but this point I have had no joy in finding a more elegant solu= tion for these pesky little toggles that if bumped make my engine quiet. I= do have the old NASA style half circle guards on each side of the toggles,= just not effective enough. Any ideas from the collective? Chris ________________________________ From: Rotary motors in aircraft [flyrotary@lancaironline.net] on behalf of = Kelly Troyer [keltro@att.net] Sent: Sunday, October 16, 2011 6:51 PM To: Rotary motors in aircraft Subject: [FlyRotary] Re: Bill Eslick's EC2 inspection DETAILS , DETAILS !!......................<:) Kelly Troyer "DYKE DELTA JD2" (Eventually) "13B ROTARY"_ Engine "RWS"_RD1C/EC2/EM2 "MISTRAL"_Backplate/Oil Manifold "TURBONETICS"_TO4E50 Turbo From: Ed Anderson To: Rotary motors in aircraft Sent: Sunday, October 16, 2011 6:43 PM Subject: [FlyRotary] Re: Bill Eslick's EC2 inspection Good idea, but afraid that source won't work - that particular guard is des= igned for 1/2" dia standard toggle switches - the one on the EC2/3 control = panel is smaller. Ed From: Ernest Christley Sent: Sunday, October 16, 2011 7:19 PM To: Rotary motors in aircraft Subject: [FlyRotary] Re: Bill Eslick's EC2 inspection On 10/15/2011 11:25 AM, bktrub@aol.com wrote: Maybe it would be a good idea to put a switch guard on the cold start switc= h. I put a guard on after my engine started bogging and I saw that I had in= advertantly brushed againt the cold start switch while adjusting the mixtur= e. My guard is just a piece of stainless sheet bent into a U shape that mak= es it hard it inadvertantly flip it. Brian Trubee Especially, considering that mpja.com is practically givi= ng them away!! http://www.mpja.com/SAFETY-COVER-FULL-TOGGLE-YELLOW/productinfo/16103+SW/ (they have several other colors, but yellow would be appropriate.) -----Original Message----- From: Ed Anderson To: Rotary motors in aircraft Sent: Sat, Oct 15, 2011 6:32 am Subject: [FlyRotary] Re: Bill Eslick's EC2 inspection My own experience is that when the cold start switch is inappropriately sel= ected and the engine is running at medium-hight rpm - is that the engine d= oes not stop immediately, but starts to bog down, sloppy sounding exhaust a= nd then eventually dies. But, then I am using 460 cc/min injectors. I eve= n found that I could fly (keep engine running) with the cold start on provi= ded I put the manual mixture control maximum lean and it was still sloppy s= ounding - if I had 550 cc/min injectors I doubt that it would have kept run= ning. My best SWAG given that Tracy found no fault and the sudden termination of = the engine - is either CAS problem or ignition (and it would have to be an = ignition problem that would taken out both sets of spark producing devices)= . If CAS then that could account for the sudden stoppage more so than a mi= splaced cold start switch in my opinion, but then distant diagnostics is st= ill an evolving "Art". {:>) Ed From: David Leonard Sent: Saturday, October 15, 2011 3:32 AM To: Rotary motors in aircraft Subject: [FlyRotary] Re: Bill Eslick's EC2 inspection Man, I hate that cold start switch ;-) Dave Leonard On Fri, Oct 14, 2011 at 1:02 PM, Tracy > wrote: Thought the group would like to hear what i found when I Finally had a chan= ce to closely examine Bill's EC2. I was hoping to find a definitive reaso= n behind his sudden and complete loss of power on takeoff on his last fligh= t. On powering it up on the bench I found both A and B controllers Working nor= mally. Bill noted in his report that in the 'Fly The Plane' situation ca= lled for in a power failure during takeoff he had not tried switching to co= ntroller B. It does not appear that it would have done any good this time. None of the parameters were set outside the expected range so no sign of da= ta corruption. In fact the only thing notable about the data downloaded fr= om it was the unusually smooth programming of the MAP table. Most of the t= ime I find units returned for updates with choppy looking data in the table= indicating a lack of care or proper methodology in setting it up. A and B= controllers had identical data. The PCM was also returned with the unit so just in case the control panel w= as the cause I substituted it for the bench test panel I normally use. Th= ought I saw a problem because the injection pulse width was so large that i= t could well have caused engine flooding. This was caused by the mixture c= ontrol being set fairly high and the cold start switch being in the on posi= tion. This does not prove anything because that could easily have happened= during removal of the panel from the plane or while packing it for shippin= g. When the switch and mixture control was returned to normal settings the= injection pulse width returned to normal. Ran the unit on the bench for several hours while heating and subjecting it= to vibration but nothing else turned up. Tracy -- Homepage: http://www.flyrotary.com/ Archive and UnSub: http://mail.lancaironline.net:81/lists/flyrotary/List.= html -- David Leonard Turbo Rotary RV-6 N4VY http://n4vy.rotaryroster.net/ http://rotaryroster.net/ --_000_2D41F9BF3B5F9842B164AF93214F3D30B5D03C10FCDMAIL05FCDATA_ Content-Type: text/html; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable

Sorry.  Meant to change subject heading.  Also, sorry for poor= ly worded post.  It is hard to type with one hand since my should= er surgery last week.

From: Rotary motors in aircraft [flyrotary= @lancaironline.net] on behalf of Chris Barber [cbarber@texasattorney.net] Sent: Sunday, October 16, 2011 7:15 PM
To: Rotary motors in aircraft
Subject: [FlyRotary] Re: Bill Eslick's EC2 inspection

On the topic of switch guards, I was very surprised a= t the extremely scant availability.  I found the .5= inch one mentioned abundantly, however any other types = were just seemingly unavailable.  i found one I did like but the only manufacturer stated contact their venders, and= then when i told them none of their venders had any, an= d they even verified this, they said they would make me a deal if i= ordered only 250 and pay tooling cost....thanks but no.

 

What I wanted was the ability to secure standard .5 inch toggle<= /a> switches on during flight since some of my toggles bei= ng on is mission critical, like my primary batt and primary fuel pump.  I currently have the previously<= a> mentioned guard installed upside down on my primary batt so as to have the switch activated when the guard is closed.  while = it works as desired in this application, it is big and kinda= ugly.  seems I remember spring bars that would hold a row of toggles in one position back in my days of youth, perhaps in= twins, but this point I have had no joy in finding a more elegant solution= for these pesky little toggles that if bumped make= my engine quiet.  I do have the old NASA style half circle guards on each side of the toggles, just not effect= ive enough.

 

Any ideas from the collective?

 

Chris

From: Rotary motors in aircraft [flyrotary= @lancaironline.net] on behalf of Kelly Troyer [keltro@att.net]
Sent: Sunday, October 16, 2011 6:51 PM
To: Rotary motors in aircraft
Subject: [FlyRotary] Re: Bill Eslick's EC2 inspection

DETAILS , DETAILS !!= ......................<:)
 
Kelly Troyer
"DYKE DELTA JD2" (Eve= ntually)
"13B ROTARY"_ Engine
"RWS"_RD1C/EC2/EM2
"MISTRAL"_Backplate/Oil Manifold
"TURBONETICS"_TO4E50 Turbo

From: Ed Anderson <eande= rson@carolina.rr.com>
To: Rotary motors in aircra= ft <flyrotary@lancaironline.net>
Sent: Sunday, October 16, 2= 011 6:43 PM
Subject: [FlyRotary] Re: Bi= ll Eslick's EC2 inspection

Good idea, but afraid that source won't work - th= at particular guard is designed for 1/2" dia standard toggle switches = - the one on the EC2/3 control panel is smaller.
 
Ed
 
 

Sent: Sunday, October 16, 2011 7:19 PM
Subject: [FlyRotary] Re: Bill Eslick's EC2 inspection

On 10/15/2011 11:25 AM, bktrub@aol.com wrote:
Maybe it would be a good idea to put a switch guard on the cold start = switch. I put a guard on after my engine started bogging and I saw that I h= ad inadvertantly brushed againt the cold start switch while adjusting the m= ixture. My guard is just a piece of stainless sheet bent into a U shape that makes it hard it inadvertantly= flip it.
 
Brian Trubee

Especially, considering that mpja.com is practically giving them away!!

http://www.mpja.com/SAFETY-COVER-FULL-TOGGLE-YELLOW/productinfo/16103+S= W/

(they have several other colors, but yellow would be appropriate.)


= -----Original Message-----
From: Ed Anderson <eanderson@carolina.rr.com>
To: Rotary motors in aircraft <flyrotary@lancaironline.net>
Sent: Sat, Oct 15, 2011 6:32 am
Subject: [FlyRotary] Re: Bill Eslick's EC2 inspection

My own experience is that when the cold start swi= tch is inappropriately selected  and the engine is running at medium-h= ight rpm - is that the engine does not stop immediately, but star= ts to bog down, sloppy sounding exhaust and then eventually dies.  But, then I am using 460 cc/min injectors.  I = even found that I could fly (keep engine running) with the cold start on pr= ovided I put the manual mixture control maximum lean and it was still slopp= y sounding - if I had 550 cc/min injectors I doubt that it would have kept running.
 
My best SWAG given that Tracy found no fault and = the sudden termination of the engine - is either CAS problem or ignition (a= nd it would have to be an ignition problem that would taken out both sets o= f spark producing devices).  If CAS then that could account for the sudden stoppage more so than a misplaced c= old start switch in my opinion, but then distant diagnostics is still an ev= olving "Art". {:>)
 
Ed
 
 

Sent: Saturday, October 15, 2011 3:32 AM
Subject: [FlyRotary] Re: Bill Eslick's EC2 inspection

Man,  I hate that cold start switch  ;-)

Dave Leonard

On Fri, Oct 14, 2011 at 1:02 PM, Tr= acy <rwstracy@gmail.com> wrote:
Thought the group would like to hear what i found when I Finally had a chan= ce to closely examine Bill's EC2.   I was hoping to find a definitive = reason behind his sudden and complete loss of power on takeoff on his last = flight.

On powering it up on the bench I found both A and B controllers Working nor= mally.   Bill noted in his report that in the 'Fly The Plane' situatio= n  called for in a power failure during takeoff he had not tried switc= hing to controller B.  It does not appear that it would have done any good this time.

None of the parameters were set outside the expected range so no sign of da= ta corruption.  In fact the only thing notable about the data download= ed from it was the unusually smooth programming of the MAP table.  Mos= t of the time I find units returned for updates with choppy looking data in the table indicating a lack of care or proper = methodology in setting it up.  A and B controllers had identical data.=

The PCM was also returned with the unit so just in case the control panel w= as the cause I substituted it for the bench test panel I normally use. &nbs= p; Thought I saw a problem because the injection pulse width was so large t= hat it could well have caused engine flooding.  This was caused by the mixture control being set fairly hi= gh and the cold start switch being in the on position.  This does not = prove anything because that could easily have happened during removal of th= e panel from the plane or while packing it for shipping.  When the switch and mixture control was returned to no= rmal settings the injection pulse width returned to normal.

Ran the unit on the bench for several hours while heating and subjecting it= to vibration but nothing else turned up.

Tracy
--
Homepage:  http://www.flyrotary.com/
Archive and UnSub:   http://mail.lancaironline.net:81/lists/flyrotary/= List.html



--
David Leonard

Turbo Rotary RV-6 N4VY
http://n4vy.rotaryroster.net/
http://rotaryroster.net/



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