X-Virus-Scanned: clean according to Sophos on Logan.com Return-Path: Received: from nm9-vm0.access.bullet.mail.sp2.yahoo.com ([98.139.44.120] verified) by logan.com (CommuniGate Pro SMTP 5.4.1) with SMTP id 5159253 for flyrotary@lancaironline.net; Sun, 16 Oct 2011 19:52:24 -0400 Received-SPF: none receiver=logan.com; client-ip=98.139.44.120; envelope-from=keltro@att.net Received: from [98.139.44.107] by nm9.access.bullet.mail.sp2.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 16 Oct 2011 23:51:48 -0000 Received: from [98.139.44.77] by tm12.access.bullet.mail.sp2.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 16 Oct 2011 23:51:48 -0000 Received: from [127.0.0.1] by omp1014.access.mail.sp2.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 16 Oct 2011 23:51:48 -0000 X-Yahoo-Newman-Property: ymail-3 X-Yahoo-Newman-Id: 213739.8254.bm@omp1014.access.mail.sp2.yahoo.com Received: (qmail 71544 invoked by uid 60001); 16 Oct 2011 23:51:47 -0000 DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=att.net; s=s1024; t=1318809107; bh=TMV5NujdOvp1GiDzHLOmNyLDLaY7Tkz5LCna8au1cus=; h=X-YMail-OSG:Received:X-Mailer:References:Message-ID:Date:From:Reply-To:Subject:To:In-Reply-To:MIME-Version:Content-Type; b=W9iOVJFRe24pBkgrzEz+RoQKYFKoLPAho8aawXc7IRpMPMIXrg9oxOZK9fUirEYCQP7BOCI1R4teenIWN51kbzv+V0Eweei3vbaPg18zIM9F+POV86RFPG0aUVjbx9kOTL3AqSqlvVYZg1IIX7TlGBYSCqmkTqpMi4Nrm5WIP1A= DomainKey-Signature:a=rsa-sha1; q=dns; c=nofws; s=s1024; d=att.net; h=X-YMail-OSG:Received:X-Mailer:References:Message-ID:Date:From:Reply-To:Subject:To:In-Reply-To:MIME-Version:Content-Type; b=yRNbrs1yTwB3Q2OWozn8pE69FMRPgEBpCDUrdrLKcScLFG8CgYMVr+wtDzcQ8mwG5fH5HvNY5jeKoPDEKYaQ7P4br+Fu+GJ9WhDMDtiGZxvxS6RZ/nJWel2wCHkImQn/kW6w5T7/ZZZcOJsv8/9K4RM7PZMMIeDugaFK9xTL+pc=; X-YMail-OSG: NjYtbpUVM1mKv05Uxf7AGscDSne2AaYYhA4TVZsi0A6yZfw FSybnUH.6sOGR2QsqLwnmJ_VycD7PhIGUgT3jwKqzt7_bQO4UibPD1YWpkeI 0zfc.viqRmUeeXckls784fGryHxFFBXHcoBEUwgrAcVwf2GdRc2zhqz4iIQj sIrVNjJ.ZLDgWasiqZVEdSeCWlllnJxaCBDX8pMilM33uM8voFrRUjbjZeGC H.zQjFAj05x.GtRhP68X4rQSje3qeagNCaRrcIwr4.r3Ry.lg8nTpunj5zQL yvzOvLBRXRRf_E8l9JE0_CuBjew5rf_MJ7Wo9x55N8QWs7u3vpl6ckj0snk2 VCtSKrcrTvPQRXDtrmWzFFnwJGErKNuwxnD_FlXTH3Xr16oWL.lpy7_tu5kB ajL8A4MXVJvDkqOOA9AqHTvKj2LVeB9E.6d.C4nfZKitS6HCPUxaBZMJubwX .gDp4aHgGkaVk9pcBgZCZ9TKIwhNoSaawvKcD9yetoS6.l2Xer2zQp.RQrxW adrw6vv7qNqMKN0jvjK0EllPin8x8Ulo6uEoet4eTdfw6 Received: from [208.114.40.139] by web83913.mail.sp1.yahoo.com via HTTP; Sun, 16 Oct 2011 16:51:47 PDT X-Mailer: YahooMailWebService/0.8.114.317681 References: Message-ID: <1318809107.14335.YahooMailNeo@web83913.mail.sp1.yahoo.com> Date: Sun, 16 Oct 2011 16:51:47 -0700 (PDT) From: Kelly Troyer Reply-To: Kelly Troyer Subject: Re: [FlyRotary] Re: Bill Eslick's EC2 inspection To: Rotary motors in aircraft In-Reply-To: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="0-1955201309-1318809107=:14335" --0-1955201309-1318809107=:14335 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable DETAILS , DETAILS !!......................<:)=0A=0A=0AKelly Troyer=0A"DYKE = DELTA JD2" (Eventually)=0A"13B ROTARY"_ Engine=0A"RWS"_RD1C/EC2/EM2=0A"MIST= RAL"_Backplate/Oil Manifold=0A"TURBONETICS"_TO4E50 Turbo=0A=0A=0A__________= ______________________=0AFrom: Ed Anderson =0ATo= : Rotary motors in aircraft =0ASent: Sunday, O= ctober 16, 2011 6:43 PM=0ASubject: [FlyRotary] Re: Bill Eslick's EC2 inspec= tion=0A=0A=0AGood idea, but afraid that source won't work - that particular= guard is designed for 1/2" dia standard toggle switches - the one on the E= C2/3 control panel is smaller.=0A=A0=0AEd=0A=A0=0A=0A=0A=0AFrom: Ernest Chr= istley =0ASent: Sunday, October 16, 2011 7:19 PM=0ATo: Rotary motors in air= craft =0ASubject: [FlyRotary] Re: Bill Eslick's EC2 inspection=0AOn 10/15/2= 011 11:25 AM, bktrub@aol.com wrote: =0AMaybe it would be a good idea to put= a switch guard on the cold start switch. I put a guard on after my engine = started bogging and I saw that I had inadvertantly brushed againt the cold = start switch while adjusting the mixture. My guard is just a piece of stain= less sheet bent into a U shape that makes it hard it inadvertantly flip it.= =0A>=0A>Brian Trubee=0A>=0A>Especially, considering that mpja.com is pract= ically giving them away!!=0A=0Ahttp://www.mpja.com/SAFETY-COVER-FULL-TOGGLE= -YELLOW/productinfo/16103+SW/=0A=0A(they have several other colors, but yel= low would be appropriate.)=0A=0A=0A=0A>=0A>-----Original Message-----=0A>Fr= om: Ed Anderson =0A>To: Rotary motors in aircraf= t =0A>Sent: Sat, Oct 15, 2011 6:32 am=0A>Subje= ct: [FlyRotary] Re: Bill Eslick's EC2 inspection=0A>=0A>=0A>My own experien= ce is that when the cold start switch is inappropriately selected=A0 and th= e engine is running at medium-hight rpm - is that=A0the engine does not sto= p=A0immediately, but starts to bog down, sloppy sounding exhaust and then e= ventually dies.=A0 But, then I am using 460 cc/min injectors.=A0 I even fou= nd that I could fly (keep engine running) with the cold start on provided I= put the manual mixture control maximum lean and it was still sloppy soundi= ng - if I had 550 cc/min injectors I doubt that it would have kept running.= =0A>=0A>My best SWAG given that Tracy found no fault and the sudden termina= tion of the engine - is either CAS problem or ignition (and it would have t= o be an ignition problem that would taken out both sets of spark producing = devices).=A0 If CAS then that could account for the sudden stoppage more so= than a misplaced cold start switch in my opinion, but then distant diagnos= tics is still an evolving "Art". {:>)=0A>=0A>Ed=0A>=0A>=0A>=0A>=0A>From: Da= vid Leonard =0A>Sent: Saturday, October 15, 2011 3:32 AM=0A>To: Rotary moto= rs in aircraft =0A>Subject: [FlyRotary] Re: Bill Eslick's EC2 inspection=0A= >=0A>Man,=A0 I hate that cold start switch=A0 ;-)=0A>=0A>Dave Leonard=0A>= =0A>=0A>On Fri, Oct 14, 2011 at 1:02 PM, Tracy wrote:= =0A>=0A>Thought the group would like to hear what i found when I Finally ha= d a chance to closely examine Bill's EC2. =A0 I was hoping to find a defini= tive reason behind his sudden and complete loss of power on takeoff on his = last flight.=0A>>=0A>>On powering it up on the bench I found both A and B c= ontrollers Working normally. =A0 Bill noted in his report that in the 'Fly = The Plane' situation =A0called for in a power failure during takeoff he had= not tried switching to controller B. =A0It does not appear that it would h= ave done any good this time.=0A>>=0A>>None of the parameters were set outsi= de the expected range so no sign of data corruption. =A0In fact the only th= ing notable about the data downloaded from it was the unusually smooth prog= ramming of the MAP table. =A0Most of the time I find units returned for upd= ates with choppy looking data in the table indicating a lack of care or pro= per methodology in setting it up. =A0A and B controllers had identical data= .=0A>>=0A>>The PCM was also returned with the unit so just in case the cont= rol panel was the cause I substituted it for the bench test panel I normall= y use. =A0 Thought I saw a problem because the injection pulse width was so= large that it could well have caused engine flooding. =A0This was caused b= y the mixture control being set fairly high and the cold start switch being= in the on position. =A0This does not prove anything because that could eas= ily have happened during removal of the panel from the plane or while packi= ng it for shipping. =A0When the switch and mixture control was returned to = normal settings the injection pulse width returned to normal.=0A>>=0A>>Ran = the unit on the bench for several hours while heating and subjecting it to = vibration but nothing else turned up.=0A>>=0A>>Tracy=0A>>--=0A>>Homepage: = =A0http://www.flyrotary.com/=0A>>Archive and UnSub: =A0 http://mail.lancair= online.net:81/lists/flyrotary/List.html=0A>>=0A>=0A>=0A>-- =0A>David Leonar= d=0A>=0A>Turbo Rotary RV-6 N4VY=0A>http://n4vy.rotaryroster.net/=0A>http://= rotaryroster.net/=0A> --0-1955201309-1318809107=:14335 Content-Type: text/html; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
DETAILS , DETAILS !!......................<:)
 
Kelly Troyer
"DYKE DELTA JD2" (Eventually)
"13B ROTARY"_ Engine
"RWS"_RD1C/EC2/EM2
"MISTRAL"_Backplate/Oil = Manifold
"TURBONETICS"_TO4E50 Turbo

From:= Ed Anderson <eanderson@carolina.rr.com>
To: Rotary motors in aircraft <flyrota= ry@lancaironline.net>
Sent: Sunday, October 16, 2011 6:43 PM
Subject: [FlyRotary] Re: Bill Eslick's EC2 inspection

Good idea, but afraid that source won't work - that= particular guard is designed for 1/2" dia standard toggle switches - the o= ne on the EC2/3 control panel is smaller.
 
Ed
 
 

Sent: Sunday, October 16, 2011 7:19 PM
Subject: [FlyRotary] Re: Bill Eslick's EC2 inspection

On 10/15/2011 11:25 AM, bktrub@aol.com wrote:=20
Maybe it would be a good idea to put a switch guard on the cold start = switch. I put a guard on after my engine started bogging and I saw that I h= ad inadvertantly brushed againt the cold start switch while adjusting the m= ixture. My guard is just a piece of stainless sheet bent into a U shape tha= t makes it hard it inadvertantly flip it.
 
Brian Trubee

Especially, considering = that mpja.com is practical= ly giving them away!!

http://www.mpja.com/SAFETY-COVER-FULL-TOGGLE-Y= ELLOW/productinfo/16103+SW/

(they have several other colors, but yel= low would be appropriate.)


-----Original Message-----
From: Ed Anderson <eanderso= n@carolina.rr.com>
To: Rotary motors in aircraft <flyrotary@lancaironline.net>
Sent: Sat, Oct 15, 2011 6:32 a= m
Subject: [FlyRotary] Re: Bill Eslick's EC2 inspection

My own experience is that when the cold start switc= h is inappropriately selected  and the engine is running at medium-hig= ht rpm - is that the engine does not stop immediately, but starts= to bog down, sloppy sounding exhaust and then eventually dies.  But, = then I am using 460 cc/min injectors.  I even found that I could fly (= keep engine running) with the cold start on provided I put the manual mixtu= re control maximum lean and it was still sloppy sounding - if I had 550 cc/= min injectors I doubt that it would have kept running.
 
My best SWAG given that Tracy found no fault and th= e sudden termination of the engine - is either CAS problem or ignition (and= it would have to be an ignition problem that would taken out both sets of = spark producing devices).  If CAS then that could account for the sudd= en stoppage more so than a misplaced cold start switch in my opinion, but t= hen distant diagnostics is still an evolving "Art". {:>)
 
Ed
 
 

Sent: Saturday, October 15, 2011 3:32 AM
Subject: [FlyRotary] Re: Bill Eslick's EC2 inspection

Man,  I hate that cold start switch  ;-)

Da= ve Leonard

On Fri, Oct 14, 2011 at 1:02 PM, Trac= y <rwstracy@gmail.com> wrote:
Thought t= he group would like to hear what i found when I Finally had a chance to clo= sely examine Bill's EC2.   I was hoping to find a definitive reason be= hind his sudden and complete loss of power on takeoff on his last flight.
On powering it up on the bench I found both A and B controllers Worki= ng normally.   Bill noted in his report that in the 'Fly The Plane' si= tuation  called for in a power failure during takeoff he had not tried= switching to controller B.  It does not appear that it would have don= e any good this time.

None of the parameters were set outside the ex= pected range so no sign of data corruption.  In fact the only thing no= table about the data downloaded from it was the unusually smooth programmin= g of the MAP table.  Most of the time I find units returned for updates with choppy looking data in the table indicating a lack of care or= proper methodology in setting it up.  A and B controllers had identic= al data.

The PCM was also returned with the unit so just in case the= control panel was the cause I substituted it for the bench test panel I no= rmally use.   Thought I saw a problem because the injection pulse widt= h was so large that it could well have caused engine flooding.  This w= as caused by the mixture control being set fairly high and the cold start s= witch being in the on position.  This does not prove anything because = that could easily have happened during removal of the panel from the plane = or while packing it for shipping.  When the switch and mixture control= was returned to normal settings the injection pulse width returned to norm= al.

Ran the unit on the bench for several hours while heating and su= bjecting it to vibration but nothing else turned up.

Tracy
--
Homepage:  http://www= .flyrotary.com/
Archive and UnSub:   http://mail.lancaironline.net:= 81/lists/flyrotary/List.html



--
David Leonard

Turbo Rotary RV-6 N4VY
http://n4vy.ro= taryroster.net/
http://rotaryroster.net/



--0-1955201309-1318809107=:14335--