X-Virus-Scanned: clean according to Sophos on Logan.com Return-Path: Received: from cdptpa-omtalb.mail.rr.com ([75.180.132.120] verified) by logan.com (CommuniGate Pro SMTP 5.4.1) with ESMTP id 5159245 for flyrotary@lancaironline.net; Sun, 16 Oct 2011 19:44:05 -0400 Received-SPF: pass receiver=logan.com; client-ip=75.180.132.120; envelope-from=eanderson@carolina.rr.com Return-Path: X-Authority-Analysis: v=1.1 cv=gqMFsD3PqRa+9IMRRYznR/JjFzasGotwKYCDC6iWcAk= c=1 sm=0 a=IEd7TEgWBiUA:10 a=SC71y0a/4S6V9vjVxUojGA==:17 a=3oc9M9_CAAAA:8 a=iUR4pCalAAAA:8 a=ayC55rCoAAAA:8 a=Ia-xEzejAAAA:8 a=pGLkceISAAAA:8 a=7g1VtSJxAAAA:8 a=N8B9JuSIAAAA:8 a=PswTItHec2H3FrF5rrEA:9 a=Sk4c2JIpNAYgk9PqGssA:7 a=wPNLvfGTeEIA:10 a=Qa1je4BO31QA:10 a=-DL9Ux06FLwA:10 a=U8Ie8EnqySEA:10 a=EzXvWhQp4_cA:10 a=MSl-tDqOz04A:10 a=4PR2P7QzAAAA:8 a=0-bupkCghGaoK25BrHgA:9 a=teASiv3HMCpJ5A2NfjcA:7 a=tXsnliwV7b4A:10 a=AstygDuN1WsA:10 a=djSSOgbfo6cA:10 a=SC71y0a/4S6V9vjVxUojGA==:117 X-Cloudmark-Score: 0 X-Originating-IP: 174.110.175.135 Received: from [174.110.175.135] ([174.110.175.135:53408] helo=EdPC) by cdptpa-oedge03.mail.rr.com (envelope-from ) (ecelerity 2.2.3.46 r()) with ESMTP id 33/96-02308-02C6B9E4; Sun, 16 Oct 2011 23:43:28 +0000 Message-ID: <0A559E257E124C36B94462E72FA30C9B@EdPC> From: "Ed Anderson" To: "Rotary motors in aircraft" References: In-Reply-To: Subject: Re: [FlyRotary] Re: Bill Eslick's EC2 inspection Date: Sun, 16 Oct 2011 19:43:00 -0400 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="----=_NextPart_000_0015_01CC8C3B.D00B6AB0" X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal Importance: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Windows Live Mail 14.0.8117.416 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V14.0.8117.416 This is a multi-part message in MIME format. ------=_NextPart_000_0015_01CC8C3B.D00B6AB0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Good idea, but afraid that source won't work - that particular guard is = designed for 1/2" dia standard toggle switches - the one on the EC2/3 = control panel is smaller. Ed From: Ernest Christley=20 Sent: Sunday, October 16, 2011 7:19 PM To: Rotary motors in aircraft=20 Subject: [FlyRotary] Re: Bill Eslick's EC2 inspection On 10/15/2011 11:25 AM, bktrub@aol.com wrote:=20 Maybe it would be a good idea to put a switch guard on the cold start = switch. I put a guard on after my engine started bogging and I saw that = I had inadvertantly brushed againt the cold start switch while adjusting = the mixture. My guard is just a piece of stainless sheet bent into a U = shape that makes it hard it inadvertantly flip it.=20 Brian Trubee Especially, considering that mpja.com is practically giving them away!! http://www.mpja.com/SAFETY-COVER-FULL-TOGGLE-YELLOW/productinfo/16103+SW/= (they have several other colors, but yellow would be appropriate.) -----Original Message----- From: Ed Anderson To: Rotary motors in aircraft Sent: Sat, Oct 15, 2011 6:32 am Subject: [FlyRotary] Re: Bill Eslick's EC2 inspection My own experience is that when the cold start switch is = inappropriately selected and the engine is running at medium-hight rpm = - is that the engine does not stop immediately, but starts to bog down, = sloppy sounding exhaust and then eventually dies. But, then I am using = 460 cc/min injectors. I even found that I could fly (keep engine = running) with the cold start on provided I put the manual mixture = control maximum lean and it was still sloppy sounding - if I had 550 = cc/min injectors I doubt that it would have kept running. My best SWAG given that Tracy found no fault and the sudden = termination of the engine - is either CAS problem or ignition (and it = would have to be an ignition problem that would taken out both sets of = spark producing devices). If CAS then that could account for the sudden = stoppage more so than a misplaced cold start switch in my opinion, but = then distant diagnostics is still an evolving "Art". {:>) Ed From: David Leonard=20 Sent: Saturday, October 15, 2011 3:32 AM To: Rotary motors in aircraft=20 Subject: [FlyRotary] Re: Bill Eslick's EC2 inspection Man, I hate that cold start switch ;-) Dave Leonard On Fri, Oct 14, 2011 at 1:02 PM, Tracy wrote: Thought the group would like to hear what i found when I Finally had = a chance to closely examine Bill's EC2. I was hoping to find a = definitive reason behind his sudden and complete loss of power on = takeoff on his last flight. On powering it up on the bench I found both A and B controllers = Working normally. Bill noted in his report that in the 'Fly The Plane' = situation called for in a power failure during takeoff he had not tried = switching to controller B. It does not appear that it would have done = any good this time. None of the parameters were set outside the expected range so no = sign of data corruption. In fact the only thing notable about the data = downloaded from it was the unusually smooth programming of the MAP = table. Most of the time I find units returned for updates with choppy = looking data in the table indicating a lack of care or proper = methodology in setting it up. A and B controllers had identical data. The PCM was also returned with the unit so just in case the control = panel was the cause I substituted it for the bench test panel I normally = use. Thought I saw a problem because the injection pulse width was so = large that it could well have caused engine flooding. This was caused = by the mixture control being set fairly high and the cold start switch = being in the on position. This does not prove anything because that = could easily have happened during removal of the panel from the plane or = while packing it for shipping. When the switch and mixture control was = returned to normal settings the injection pulse width returned to = normal. Ran the unit on the bench for several hours while heating and = subjecting it to vibration but nothing else turned up. Tracy -- Homepage: http://www.flyrotary.com/ Archive and UnSub: = http://mail.lancaironline.net:81/lists/flyrotary/List.html --=20 David Leonard Turbo Rotary RV-6 N4VY http://N4VY.RotaryRoster.net http://RotaryRoster.net ------=_NextPart_000_0015_01CC8C3B.D00B6AB0 Content-Type: text/html; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
Good idea, but afraid that source won't work - = that=20 particular guard is designed for 1/2" dia standard toggle switches - the = one on=20 the EC2/3 control panel is smaller.
 
Ed
 
 

Sent: Sunday, October 16, 2011 7:19 PM
Subject: [FlyRotary] Re: Bill Eslick's EC2=20 inspection

On 10/15/2011 11:25 AM, bktrub@aol.com wrote:=20
Maybe it would be a good idea to put a switch guard on the cold = start=20 switch. I put a guard on after my engine started bogging and I saw = that I had=20 inadvertantly brushed againt the cold start switch while adjusting the = mixture. My guard is just a piece of stainless sheet bent into a U = shape that=20 makes it hard it inadvertantly flip it.
 
Brian Trubee

Especially, = considering that=20 mpja.com is practically giving them away!!

http://www.mpja.com/SAFETY-COVER-FULL-TOGGLE-YELLOW/productinfo= /16103+SW/

(they=20 have several other colors, but yellow would be appropriate.)


-----Original=20 Message-----
From: Ed Anderson <eanderson@carolina.rr.com&g= t;
To:=20 Rotary motors in aircraft <flyrotary@lancaironline.n= et>
Sent:=20 Sat, Oct 15, 2011 6:32 am
Subject: [FlyRotary] Re: Bill Eslick's = EC2=20 inspection

My own experience is that when the cold start = switch is=20 inappropriately selected  and the engine is running at = medium-hight rpm -=20 is that the engine does not stop immediately, but starts to = bog=20 down, sloppy sounding exhaust and then eventually dies.  But, = then I am=20 using 460 cc/min injectors.  I even found that I could fly (keep = engine=20 running) with the cold start on provided I put the manual mixture = control=20 maximum lean and it was still sloppy sounding - if I had 550 cc/min = injectors=20 I doubt that it would have kept running.
 
My best SWAG given that Tracy found no fault = and the=20 sudden termination of the engine - is either CAS problem or ignition = (and it=20 would have to be an ignition problem that would taken out both sets of = spark=20 producing devices).  If CAS then that could account for the = sudden=20 stoppage more so than a misplaced cold start switch in my opinion, but = then=20 distant diagnostics is still an evolving "Art". {:>)
 
Ed
 
 

From: David = Leonard=20
Sent: Saturday, October 15, 2011 3:32 AM
Subject: [FlyRotary] Re: Bill Eslick's EC2=20 inspection

Man,  I hate that cold start switch  = ;-)

Dave=20 Leonard

On Fri, Oct 14, 2011 at 1:02 PM, Tracy <rwstracy@gmail.com> wrote:
Thought the group would like to hear what i found = when I=20 Finally had a chance to closely examine Bill's EC2.   I was = hoping to=20 find a definitive reason behind his sudden and complete loss of = power on=20 takeoff on his last flight.

On powering it up on the bench I = found=20 both A and B controllers Working normally.   Bill noted in his = report=20 that in the 'Fly The Plane' situation  called for in a power = failure=20 during takeoff he had not tried switching to controller B.  It = does not=20 appear that it would have done any good this time.

None of = the=20 parameters were set outside the expected range so no sign of data=20 corruption.  In fact the only thing notable about the data = downloaded=20 from it was the unusually smooth programming of the MAP table. =  Most of=20 the time I find units returned for updates with choppy looking data = in the=20 table indicating a lack of care or proper methodology in setting it = up.=20  A and B controllers had identical data.

The PCM was = also=20 returned with the unit so just in case the control panel was the = cause I=20 substituted it for the bench test panel I normally use.   = Thought I saw=20 a problem because the injection pulse width was so large that it = could well=20 have caused engine flooding.  This was caused by the mixture = control=20 being set fairly high and the cold start switch being in the on = position.=20  This does not prove anything because that could easily have = happened=20 during removal of the panel from the plane or while packing it for = shipping.=20  When the switch and mixture control was returned to normal = settings=20 the injection pulse width returned to normal.

Ran the unit on = the=20 bench for several hours while heating and subjecting it to vibration = but=20 nothing else turned up.

Tracy
--
Homepage:=20  http://www.flyrotary.com/
Archive = and UnSub:=20   http://mail.lancaironline.net:81/lists/flyrotary= /List.html


--
David Leonard

Turbo Rotary RV-6 = N4VY
http://N4VY.RotaryRoster.net
http://RotaryRoster.net

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