X-Virus-Scanned: clean according to Sophos on Logan.com Return-Path: Received: from nm26-vm0.access.bullet.mail.mud.yahoo.com ([66.94.236.225] verified) by logan.com (CommuniGate Pro SMTP 5.4.1) with SMTP id 5159240 for flyrotary@lancaironline.net; Sun, 16 Oct 2011 19:20:07 -0400 Received-SPF: softfail receiver=logan.com; client-ip=66.94.236.225; envelope-from=echristley@nc.rr.com Received: from [66.94.237.198] by nm26.access.bullet.mail.mud.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 16 Oct 2011 23:19:32 -0000 Received: from [66.94.237.104] by tm9.access.bullet.mail.mud.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 16 Oct 2011 23:19:31 -0000 Received: from [127.0.0.1] by omp1009.access.mail.mud.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 16 Oct 2011 23:19:31 -0000 X-Yahoo-Newman-Id: 980593.85630.bm@omp1009.access.mail.mud.yahoo.com Received: (qmail 38024 invoked from network); 16 Oct 2011 23:19:31 -0000 DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=yahoo.com; s=s1024; t=1318807171; bh=2cP9Q4JcS1DkI230Qre8todPVxIDFau/gB0WqcOViUA=; h=X-Yahoo-Newman-Property:X-YMail-OSG:X-Yahoo-SMTP:Received:Message-ID:Date:From:Reply-To:User-Agent:MIME-Version:To:Subject:References:In-Reply-To:Content-Type; b=2DfMEPs9lVnz/BcD6j9mL0JPkLf7NXhmjqLpNtRzgSAzkfkU207ShO2lyHQ2OYwyK1HYoXjihwYIJJZ1PjfaNQrQ/wYanqpQOk331twOzW+zeOjg5mVJzf5d/J+kFJUe+Hr6WOKR+/YyyV0Et5W+nyGSf+ru1GnGblvErkDh8Pk= X-Yahoo-Newman-Property: ymail-3 X-YMail-OSG: WmadkjsVM1nFImjyI7slwKb0GhDgqj0BZWPmqWW.eKHCkSc GBQz7RHzcLA9alCO8XF2FD2wollfvLjqtOFcGAM1eI_v..PfBfWsGPEJbYdq U53t.l46MARBaAIn3DvuRvneTOG_qAksO7qZzJXRyIjNHQiMbe.krGvkyMjy jGMB12bUhESerRexcAjBuKyYKStoMxdfC6_rPfeAQ156JMChTu1mnoFhlD3t 3noaxaEtcCEiEskXb7a_GBUfxcfqusuI1XWsX5q8p0PKmPbtJ.DOaC4cm8r9 UicL0Calwg8XrfM7OG.SxL7zo7QafqtpVVQ1xc5cygX9rQ4qp36n6njm0IX7 .3ltP5RExKKWWdEu0cVjhCrd1kFhgMYzRcZ_J5HWZlw1n0Sx659tfkA_LUsK wcVp3LWGptfnor1HOpoEfzLSf7GyUK4vnZt3AwZaFKyCPhkicu5dBviy6eEU wbZVABvHolM7PaS3XjvNK0e9ErTVzRuUuH39F0lkk0MKvf1PP9HAt3fiMtlJ em1fE9pW11V0zRv.JTEuebsc- X-Yahoo-SMTP: 40RP3pGswBDvPav1a.I8eMv.KS8bdgWBnCloVoKaow-- Received: from [192.168.1.2] (echristley@71.70.227.94 with plain) by smtp102.sbc.mail.ne1.yahoo.com with SMTP; 16 Oct 2011 16:19:31 -0700 PDT Message-ID: <4E9B6668.6030402@nc.rr.com> Date: Sun, 16 Oct 2011 19:19:04 -0400 From: Ernest Christley Reply-To: echristley@att.net User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (X11; U; Linux x86_64; en-US; rv:1.9.2.23) Gecko/20110921 Lightning/1.0b2 Thunderbird/3.1.15 MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Rotary motors in aircraft Subject: Re: [FlyRotary] Re: Bill Eslick's EC2 inspection References: In-Reply-To: Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="------------090900020502090905080600" This is a multi-part message in MIME format. --------------090900020502090905080600 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit On 10/15/2011 11:25 AM, bktrub@aol.com wrote: > Maybe it would be a good idea to put a switch guard on the cold start > switch. I put a guard on after my engine started bogging and I saw > that I had inadvertantly brushed againt the cold start switch while > adjusting the mixture. My guard is just a piece of stainless sheet > bent into a U shape that makes it hard it inadvertantly flip it. > Brian Trubee > Especially, considering that mpja.com is practically giving them away!! http://www.mpja.com/SAFETY-COVER-FULL-TOGGLE-YELLOW/productinfo/16103+SW/ (they have several other colors, but yellow would be appropriate.) > > -----Original Message----- > From: Ed Anderson > To: Rotary motors in aircraft > Sent: Sat, Oct 15, 2011 6:32 am > Subject: [FlyRotary] Re: Bill Eslick's EC2 inspection > > My own experience is that when the cold start switch is > inappropriately selected and the engine is running at medium-hight > rpm - is that the engine does not stop immediately, but starts to bog > down, sloppy sounding exhaust and then eventually dies. But, then I > am using 460 cc/min injectors. I even found that I could fly (keep > engine running) with the cold start on provided I put the manual > mixture control maximum lean and it was still sloppy sounding - if I > had 550 cc/min injectors I doubt that it would have kept running. > My best SWAG given that Tracy found no fault and the sudden > termination of the engine - is either CAS problem or ignition (and it > would have to be an ignition problem that would taken out both sets of > spark producing devices). If CAS then that could account for the > sudden stoppage more so than a misplaced cold start switch in my > opinion, but then distant diagnostics is still an evolving "Art". {:>) > Ed > > *From:* David Leonard > *Sent:* Saturday, October 15, 2011 3:32 AM > *To:* Rotary motors in aircraft > *Subject:* [FlyRotary] Re: Bill Eslick's EC2 inspection > > Man, I hate that cold start switch ;-) > > Dave Leonard > > On Fri, Oct 14, 2011 at 1:02 PM, Tracy > wrote: > > Thought the group would like to hear what i found when I Finally > had a chance to closely examine Bill's EC2. I was hoping to find > a definitive reason behind his sudden and complete loss of power > on takeoff on his last flight. > > On powering it up on the bench I found both A and B controllers > Working normally. Bill noted in his report that in the 'Fly The > Plane' situation called for in a power failure during takeoff he > had not tried switching to controller B. It does not appear that > it would have done any good this time. > > None of the parameters were set outside the expected range so no > sign of data corruption. In fact the only thing notable about the > data downloaded from it was the unusually smooth programming of > the MAP table. Most of the time I find units returned for updates > with choppy looking data in the table indicating a lack of care or > proper methodology in setting it up. A and B controllers had > identical data. > > The PCM was also returned with the unit so just in case the > control panel was the cause I substituted it for the bench test > panel I normally use. Thought I saw a problem because the > injection pulse width was so large that it could well have caused > engine flooding. This was caused by the mixture control being set > fairly high and the cold start switch being in the on position. > This does not prove anything because that could easily have > happened during removal of the panel from the plane or while > packing it for shipping. When the switch and mixture control was > returned to normal settings the injection pulse width returned to > normal. > > Ran the unit on the bench for several hours while heating and > subjecting it to vibration but nothing else turned up. > > Tracy > -- > Homepage: http://www.flyrotary.com/ > Archive and UnSub: > http://mail.lancaironline.net:81/lists/flyrotary/List.html > > > > > -- > David Leonard > > Turbo Rotary RV-6 N4VY > http://N4VY.RotaryRoster.net > http://RotaryRoster.net --------------090900020502090905080600 Content-Type: text/html; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit On 10/15/2011 11:25 AM, bktrub@aol.com wrote:
Maybe it would be a good idea to put a switch guard on the cold start switch. I put a guard on after my engine started bogging and I saw that I had inadvertantly brushed againt the cold start switch while adjusting the mixture. My guard is just a piece of stainless sheet bent into a U shape that makes it hard it inadvertantly flip it.
 
Brian Trubee

Especially, considering that mpja.com is practically giving them away!!

http://www.mpja.com/SAFETY-COVER-FULL-TOGGLE-YELLOW/productinfo/16103+SW/

(they have several other colors, but yellow would be appropriate.)


-----Original Message-----
From: Ed Anderson <eanderson@carolina.rr.com>
To: Rotary motors in aircraft <flyrotary@lancaironline.net>
Sent: Sat, Oct 15, 2011 6:32 am
Subject: [FlyRotary] Re: Bill Eslick's EC2 inspection

My own experience is that when the cold start switch is inappropriately selected  and the engine is running at medium-hight rpm - is that the engine does not stop immediately, but starts to bog down, sloppy sounding exhaust and then eventually dies.  But, then I am using 460 cc/min injectors.  I even found that I could fly (keep engine running) with the cold start on provided I put the manual mixture control maximum lean and it was still sloppy sounding - if I had 550 cc/min injectors I doubt that it would have kept running.
 
My best SWAG given that Tracy found no fault and the sudden termination of the engine - is either CAS problem or ignition (and it would have to be an ignition problem that would taken out both sets of spark producing devices).  If CAS then that could account for the sudden stoppage more so than a misplaced cold start switch in my opinion, but then distant diagnostics is still an evolving "Art". {:>)
 
Ed
 
 

Sent: Saturday, October 15, 2011 3:32 AM
Subject: [FlyRotary] Re: Bill Eslick's EC2 inspection

Man,  I hate that cold start switch  ;-)

Dave Leonard

On Fri, Oct 14, 2011 at 1:02 PM, Tracy <rwstracy@gmail.com> wrote:
Thought the group would like to hear what i found when I Finally had a chance to closely examine Bill's EC2.   I was hoping to find a definitive reason behind his sudden and complete loss of power on takeoff on his last flight.

On powering it up on the bench I found both A and B controllers Working normally.   Bill noted in his report that in the 'Fly The Plane' situation  called for in a power failure during takeoff he had not tried switching to controller B.  It does not appear that it would have done any good this time.

None of the parameters were set outside the expected range so no sign of data corruption.  In fact the only thing notable about the data downloaded from it was the unusually smooth programming of the MAP table.  Most of the time I find units returned for updates with choppy looking data in the table indicating a lack of care or proper methodology in setting it up.  A and B controllers had identical data.

The PCM was also returned with the unit so just in case the control panel was the cause I substituted it for the bench test panel I normally use.   Thought I saw a problem because the injection pulse width was so large that it could well have caused engine flooding.  This was caused by the mixture control being set fairly high and the cold start switch being in the on position.  This does not prove anything because that could easily have happened during removal of the panel from the plane or while packing it for shipping.  When the switch and mixture control was returned to normal settings the injection pulse width returned to normal.

Ran the unit on the bench for several hours while heating and subjecting it to vibration but nothing else turned up.

Tracy
--
Homepage:  http://www.flyrotary.com/
Archive and UnSub:   http://mail.lancaironline.net:81/lists/flyrotary/List.html



--
David Leonard

Turbo Rotary RV-6 N4VY
http://N4VY.RotaryRoster.net
http://RotaryRoster.net

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