X-Virus-Scanned: clean according to Sophos on Logan.com Return-Path: Received: from imr-ma05.mx.aol.com ([64.12.100.31] verified) by logan.com (CommuniGate Pro SMTP 5.4.1) with ESMTP id 5158306 for flyrotary@lancaironline.net; Sat, 15 Oct 2011 11:25:46 -0400 Received-SPF: pass receiver=logan.com; client-ip=64.12.100.31; envelope-from=bktrub@aol.com Received: from mtaomg-mb01.r1000.mx.aol.com (mtaomg-mb01.r1000.mx.aol.com [172.29.41.72]) by imr-ma05.mx.aol.com (8.14.1/8.14.1) with ESMTP id p9FFP4a2027766 for ; Sat, 15 Oct 2011 11:25:04 -0400 Received: from core-dud002c.r1000.mail.aol.com (core-dud002.r1000.mail.aol.com [172.29.66.197]) by mtaomg-mb01.r1000.mx.aol.com (OMAG/Core Interface) with ESMTP id 46DB4E00008B for ; Sat, 15 Oct 2011 11:25:04 -0400 (EDT) References: To: flyrotary@lancaironline.net Subject: Re: [FlyRotary] Re: Bill Eslick's EC2 inspection In-Reply-To: X-MB-Message-Source: WebUI MIME-Version: 1.0 From: bktrub@aol.com X-MB-Message-Type: User Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="--------MB_8CE5965BF288A25_1354_A4C18_webmail-d101.sysops.aol.com" X-Mailer: AOL Webmail 34188-STANDARD Received: from 69.84.254.253 by webmail-d101.sysops.aol.com (205.188.92.224) with HTTP (WebMailUI); Sat, 15 Oct 2011 11:25:03 -0400 Message-Id: <8CE5965BF1A41DF-1354-44C73@webmail-d101.sysops.aol.com> X-Originating-IP: [69.84.254.253] Date: Sat, 15 Oct 2011 11:25:04 -0400 (EDT) x-aol-global-disposition: G X-AOL-SCOLL-SCORE: 0:2:445965696:93952408 X-AOL-SCOLL-URL_COUNT: 0 x-aol-sid: 3039ac1d29484e99a5d06fc6 This is a multi-part message in MIME format. ----------MB_8CE5965BF288A25_1354_A4C18_webmail-d101.sysops.aol.com Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Maybe it would be a good idea to put a switch guard on the cold start switc= h. I put a guard on after my engine started bogging and I saw that I had in= advertantly brushed againt the cold start switch while adjusting the mixtur= e. My guard is just a piece of stainless sheet bent into a U shape that mak= es it hard it inadvertantly flip it.=20 Brian Trubee -----Original Message----- From: Ed Anderson To: Rotary motors in aircraft Sent: Sat, Oct 15, 2011 6:32 am Subject: [FlyRotary] Re: Bill Eslick's EC2 inspection My own experience is that when the cold start switch is inappropriately sel= ected and the engine is running at medium-hight rpm - is that the engine d= oes not stop immediately, but starts to bog down, sloppy sounding exhaust a= nd then eventually dies. But, then I am using 460 cc/min injectors. I eve= n found that I could fly (keep engine running) with the cold start on provi= ded I put the manual mixture control maximum lean and it was still sloppy s= ounding - if I had 550 cc/min injectors I doubt that it would have kept run= ning. =20 My best SWAG given that Tracy found no fault and the sudden termination of = the engine - is either CAS problem or ignition (and it would have to be an = ignition problem that would taken out both sets of spark producing devices)= . If CAS then that could account for the sudden stoppage more so than a mi= splaced cold start switch in my opinion, but then distant diagnostics is st= ill an evolving "Art". {:>) =20 Ed =20 =20 From: David Leonard=20 Sent: Saturday, October 15, 2011 3:32 AM To: Rotary motors in aircraft=20 Subject: [FlyRotary] Re: Bill Eslick's EC2 inspection Man, I hate that cold start switch ;-) Dave Leonard On Fri, Oct 14, 2011 at 1:02 PM, Tracy wrote: Thought the group would like to hear what i found when I Finally had a chan= ce to closely examine Bill's EC2. I was hoping to find a definitive reaso= n behind his sudden and complete loss of power on takeoff on his last fligh= t. On powering it up on the bench I found both A and B controllers Working nor= mally. Bill noted in his report that in the 'Fly The Plane' situation ca= lled for in a power failure during takeoff he had not tried switching to co= ntroller B. It does not appear that it would have done any good this time. None of the parameters were set outside the expected range so no sign of da= ta corruption. In fact the only thing notable about the data downloaded fr= om it was the unusually smooth programming of the MAP table. Most of the t= ime I find units returned for updates with choppy looking data in the table= indicating a lack of care or proper methodology in setting it up. A and B= controllers had identical data. The PCM was also returned with the unit so just in case the control panel w= as the cause I substituted it for the bench test panel I normally use. Th= ought I saw a problem because the injection pulse width was so large that i= t could well have caused engine flooding. This was caused by the mixture c= ontrol being set fairly high and the cold start switch being in the on posi= tion. This does not prove anything because that could easily have happened= during removal of the panel from the plane or while packing it for shippin= g. When the switch and mixture control was returned to normal settings the= injection pulse width returned to normal. Ran the unit on the bench for several hours while heating and subjecting it= to vibration but nothing else turned up. Tracy -- Homepage: http://www.flyrotary.com/ Archive and UnSub: http://mail.lancaironline.net:81/lists/flyrotary/List.= html --=20 David Leonard Turbo Rotary RV-6 N4VY http://N4VY.RotaryRoster.net http://RotaryRoster.net ----------MB_8CE5965BF288A25_1354_A4C18_webmail-d101.sysops.aol.com Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Content-Type: text/html; charset="us-ascii"
Maybe it would be a good idea to put a switch guard on the cold start = switch. I put a guard on after my engine started bogging and I saw that I h= ad inadvertantly brushed againt the cold start switch while adjusting the m= ixture. My guard is just a piece of stainless sheet bent into a U shape tha= t makes it hard it inadvertantly flip it.
 
Brian Trubee


= -----Original Message-----
From: Ed Anderson <eanderson@carolina.rr.com>
To: Rotary motors in aircraft <flyrotary@lancaironline.net>
Sent: Sat, Oct 15, 2011 6:32 am
Subject: [FlyRotary] Re: Bill Eslick's EC2 inspection

My own experience is that when the cold start switc= h is inappropriately selected  and the engine is running at medium-hig= ht rpm - is that the engine does not stop immediately, but starts= to bog down, sloppy sounding exhaust and then eventually dies.  But, = then I am using 460 cc/min injectors.  I even found that I could fly (= keep engine running) with the cold start on provided I put the manual mixtu= re control maximum lean and it was still sloppy sounding - if I had 550 cc/= min injectors I doubt that it would have kept running.
 
My best SWAG given that Tracy found no fault and th= e sudden termination of the engine - is either CAS problem or ignition (and= it would have to be an ignition problem that would taken out both sets of = spark producing devices).  If CAS then that could account for the sudd= en stoppage more so than a misplaced cold start switch in my opinion, but t= hen distant diagnostics is still an evolving "Art". {:>)
 
Ed
 
 

Sent: Saturday, October 15, 2011 3:32 AM
Subject: [FlyRotary] Re: Bill Eslick's EC2 inspection

Man,  I hate that cold start switch  ;-)

Dave Leonard

On Fri, Oct 14, 2011 at 1:02 PM, Tracy <rwstracy@gmail.com>= wrote:
Thought the group woul= d like to hear what i found when I Finally had a chance to closely examine = Bill's EC2.   I was hoping to find a definitive reason behind his sudd= en and complete loss of power on takeoff on his last flight.

On powering it up on the bench I found both A and B controllers Working nor= mally.   Bill noted in his report that in the 'Fly The Plane' situatio= n  called for in a power failure during takeoff he had not tried switc= hing to controller B.  It does not appear that it would have done any = good this time.

None of the parameters were set outside the expected range so no sign of da= ta corruption.  In fact the only thing notable about the data download= ed from it was the unusually smooth programming of the MAP table.  Mos= t of the time I find units returned for updates with choppy looking data in= the table indicating a lack of care or proper methodology in setting it up= .  A and B controllers had identical data.

The PCM was also returned with the unit so just in case the control panel w= as the cause I substituted it for the bench test panel I normally use. &nbs= p; Thought I saw a problem because the injection pulse width was so large t= hat it could well have caused engine flooding.  This was caused by the= mixture control being set fairly high and the cold start switch being in t= he on position.  This does not prove anything because that could easil= y have happened during removal of the panel from the plane or while packing= it for shipping.  When the switch and mixture control was returned to= normal settings the injection pulse width returned to normal.

Ran the unit on the bench for several hours while heating and subjecting it= to vibration but nothing else turned up.

Tracy
--
Homepage:  http:= //www.flyrotary.com/
Archive and UnSub:   http://mail.lancaironline.net:81/list= s/flyrotary/List.html



--
David Leonard

Turbo Rotary RV-6 N4VY
http://N4VY.Rotar= yRoster.net
http://RotaryRoster.ne= t
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