X-Virus-Scanned: clean according to Sophos on Logan.com Return-Path: Received: from cdptpa-omtalb.mail.rr.com ([75.180.132.123] verified) by logan.com (CommuniGate Pro SMTP 5.4.1) with ESMTP id 5158193 for flyrotary@lancaironline.net; Sat, 15 Oct 2011 09:32:39 -0400 Received-SPF: pass receiver=logan.com; client-ip=75.180.132.123; envelope-from=eanderson@carolina.rr.com Return-Path: X-Authority-Analysis: v=1.1 cv=xpiJhaXcY9g2L5+PPpDCkNh+KVu4STcfCxbrT9KJo/A= c=1 sm=0 a=IEd7TEgWBiUA:10 a=SC71y0a/4S6V9vjVxUojGA==:17 a=pGLkceISAAAA:8 a=7g1VtSJxAAAA:8 a=Ia-xEzejAAAA:8 a=N8B9JuSIAAAA:8 a=fGsmfxH9EwU7y1mc5uUA:9 a=_bBMkWDyWWORwkIUSpQA:7 a=wPNLvfGTeEIA:10 a=Qa1je4BO31QA:10 a=MSl-tDqOz04A:10 a=frNYrhfTKifBJe9s3zIA:9 a=iH3w3kbLE8GeFp99iyEA:7 a=tXsnliwV7b4A:10 a=EzXvWhQp4_cA:10 a=SC71y0a/4S6V9vjVxUojGA==:117 X-Cloudmark-Score: 0 X-Originating-IP: 174.110.175.135 Received: from [174.110.175.135] ([174.110.175.135:50120] helo=EdPC) by cdptpa-oedge02.mail.rr.com (envelope-from ) (ecelerity 2.2.3.46 r()) with ESMTP id ED/9E-02292-35B899E4; Sat, 15 Oct 2011 13:32:03 +0000 Message-ID: <1349B25786B244D389158F9422714418@EdPC> From: "Ed Anderson" To: "Rotary motors in aircraft" References: In-Reply-To: Subject: Re: [FlyRotary] Re: Bill Eslick's EC2 inspection Date: Sat, 15 Oct 2011 09:31:37 -0400 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="----=_NextPart_000_0005_01CC8B1D.3CC11120" X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal Importance: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Windows Live Mail 14.0.8117.416 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V14.0.8117.416 This is a multi-part message in MIME format. ------=_NextPart_000_0005_01CC8B1D.3CC11120 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable My own experience is that when the cold start switch is inappropriately = selected and the engine is running at medium-hight rpm - is that the = engine does not stop immediately, but starts to bog down, sloppy = sounding exhaust and then eventually dies. But, then I am using 460 = cc/min injectors. I even found that I could fly (keep engine running) = with the cold start on provided I put the manual mixture control maximum = lean and it was still sloppy sounding - if I had 550 cc/min injectors I = doubt that it would have kept running. My best SWAG given that Tracy found no fault and the sudden termination = of the engine - is either CAS problem or ignition (and it would have to = be an ignition problem that would taken out both sets of spark producing = devices). If CAS then that could account for the sudden stoppage more = so than a misplaced cold start switch in my opinion, but then distant = diagnostics is still an evolving "Art". {:>) Ed From: David Leonard=20 Sent: Saturday, October 15, 2011 3:32 AM To: Rotary motors in aircraft=20 Subject: [FlyRotary] Re: Bill Eslick's EC2 inspection Man, I hate that cold start switch ;-) Dave Leonard On Fri, Oct 14, 2011 at 1:02 PM, Tracy wrote: Thought the group would like to hear what i found when I Finally had a = chance to closely examine Bill's EC2. I was hoping to find a = definitive reason behind his sudden and complete loss of power on = takeoff on his last flight. On powering it up on the bench I found both A and B controllers = Working normally. Bill noted in his report that in the 'Fly The Plane' = situation called for in a power failure during takeoff he had not tried = switching to controller B. It does not appear that it would have done = any good this time. None of the parameters were set outside the expected range so no sign = of data corruption. In fact the only thing notable about the data = downloaded from it was the unusually smooth programming of the MAP = table. Most of the time I find units returned for updates with choppy = looking data in the table indicating a lack of care or proper = methodology in setting it up. A and B controllers had identical data. The PCM was also returned with the unit so just in case the control = panel was the cause I substituted it for the bench test panel I normally = use. Thought I saw a problem because the injection pulse width was so = large that it could well have caused engine flooding. This was caused = by the mixture control being set fairly high and the cold start switch = being in the on position. This does not prove anything because that = could easily have happened during removal of the panel from the plane or = while packing it for shipping. When the switch and mixture control was = returned to normal settings the injection pulse width returned to = normal. Ran the unit on the bench for several hours while heating and = subjecting it to vibration but nothing else turned up. Tracy -- Homepage: http://www.flyrotary.com/ Archive and UnSub: = http://mail.lancaironline.net:81/lists/flyrotary/List.html --=20 David Leonard Turbo Rotary RV-6 N4VY http://N4VY.RotaryRoster.net http://RotaryRoster.net ------=_NextPart_000_0005_01CC8B1D.3CC11120 Content-Type: text/html; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
My own experience is that when the cold start = switch is=20 inappropriately selected  and the engine is running at medium-hight = rpm -=20 is that the engine does not stop immediately, but starts to = bog down,=20 sloppy sounding exhaust and then eventually dies.  But, then I am = using 460=20 cc/min injectors.  I even found that I could fly (keep engine = running) with=20 the cold start on provided I put the manual mixture control maximum lean = and it=20 was still sloppy sounding - if I had 550 cc/min injectors I doubt that = it would=20 have kept running.
 
My best SWAG given that Tracy found no fault and = the=20 sudden termination of the engine - is either CAS problem or ignition = (and it=20 would have to be an ignition problem that would taken out both sets of = spark=20 producing devices).  If CAS then that could account for the sudden = stoppage=20 more so than a misplaced cold start switch in my opinion, but then = distant=20 diagnostics is still an evolving "Art". {:>)
 
Ed
 
 

Sent: Saturday, October 15, 2011 3:32 AM
Subject: [FlyRotary] Re: Bill Eslick's EC2=20 inspection

Man,  I hate that cold start switch  = ;-)

Dave=20 Leonard

On Fri, Oct 14, 2011 at 1:02 PM, Tracy <rwstracy@gmail.com> = wrote:
Thought the group would like to hear what i found = when I=20 Finally had a chance to closely examine Bill's EC2.   I was = hoping to=20 find a definitive reason behind his sudden and complete loss of power = on=20 takeoff on his last flight.

On powering it up on the bench I = found both=20 A and B controllers Working normally.   Bill noted in his report = that in=20 the 'Fly The Plane' situation  called for in a power failure = during=20 takeoff he had not tried switching to controller B.  It does not = appear=20 that it would have done any good this time.

None of the = parameters were=20 set outside the expected range so no sign of data corruption.  In = fact=20 the only thing notable about the data downloaded from it was the = unusually=20 smooth programming of the MAP table.  Most of the time I find = units=20 returned for updates with choppy looking data in the table indicating = a lack=20 of care or proper methodology in setting it up.  A and B = controllers had=20 identical data.

The PCM was also returned with the unit so just = in case=20 the control panel was the cause I substituted it for the bench test = panel I=20 normally use.   Thought I saw a problem because the injection = pulse width=20 was so large that it could well have caused engine flooding. =  This was=20 caused by the mixture control being set fairly high and the cold start = switch=20 being in the on position.  This does not prove anything because = that=20 could easily have happened during removal of the panel from the plane = or while=20 packing it for shipping.  When the switch and mixture control was = returned to normal settings the injection pulse width returned to=20 normal.

Ran the unit on the bench for several hours while = heating and=20 subjecting it to vibration but nothing else turned = up.

Tracy
--
Homepage:  http://www.flyrotary.com/
Archive and UnSub: =   http://mail.lancaironline.net:81/lists/flyrotary/List.htm= l


--
David Leonard

Turbo Rotary RV-6 N4VY
http://N4VY.RotaryRoster.nethttp://RotaryRoster.net
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