X-Virus-Scanned: clean according to Sophos on Logan.com Return-Path: Received: from cdptpa-omtalb.mail.rr.com ([75.180.132.123] verified) by logan.com (CommuniGate Pro SMTP 5.4.1) with ESMTP id 5154887 for flyrotary@lancaironline.net; Wed, 12 Oct 2011 14:25:18 -0400 Received-SPF: pass receiver=logan.com; client-ip=75.180.132.123; envelope-from=eanderson@carolina.rr.com Return-Path: X-Authority-Analysis: v=1.1 cv=fBQ/umHr/NntWb97nPvjJqL5/J9L8K0X95NnniynOrI= c=1 sm=0 a=HmM-mEA80xkA:10 a=SC71y0a/4S6V9vjVxUojGA==:17 a=Ia-xEzejAAAA:8 a=ayC55rCoAAAA:8 a=arxwEM4EAAAA:8 a=r1ClD_H3AAAA:8 a=HR2sUkUExNgVXoOEHEMA:9 a=IsUeL-Ypz4IpbPeFGXEA:7 a=pILNOxqGKmIA:10 a=EzXvWhQp4_cA:10 a=LrH_vo9RacwRtzRQ:21 a=kfVxxF1p346Meg9U:21 a=glYVDZ00AAAA:8 a=on22okXAAAAA:8 a=E93lBu2AAAAA:8 a=GXhuT-k-nyaU1J-Dv9IA:9 a=b4kfXgxfJ4i41Ct_VWQA:7 a=tXsnliwV7b4A:10 a=XCwpvLtFMdsA:10 a=at0Q5_2dr5wA:10 a=MpuOTR30KwMA:10 a=x6VBWS02HY8A:10 a=d1n8sfsg-lQA:10 a=NWVoK91CQyQA:10 a=O7unptMrPETGAptI:21 a=jNc93h51OUXjXdMC:21 a=ZHUsY8zHUz0Vp2Os_2YA:9 a=1Vq_FK4TplAA:10 a=51nItO4Ekp-e_3z1jNwA:9 a=9SQSOrgtHGne4zT3sTkA:9 a=SC71y0a/4S6V9vjVxUojGA==:117 X-Cloudmark-Score: 0 X-Originating-IP: 174.110.175.135 Received: from [174.110.175.135] ([174.110.175.135:56183] helo=EdPC) by cdptpa-oedge04.mail.rr.com (envelope-from ) (ecelerity 2.2.3.46 r()) with ESMTP id 57/11-05030-A6BD59E4; Wed, 12 Oct 2011 18:24:42 +0000 Message-ID: <8DC50DE6F3C841408A4BDB14B34325FE@EdPC> From: "Ed Anderson" To: "Rotary motors in aircraft" References: In-Reply-To: Subject: Re: [FlyRotary] Re: The rotary may live. Date: Wed, 12 Oct 2011 14:24:26 -0400 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/related; type="multipart/alternative"; boundary="----=_NextPart_000_0012_01CC88EA.A516EE50" X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal Importance: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Windows Live Mail 14.0.8117.416 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V14.0.8117.416 This is a multi-part message in MIME format. ------=_NextPart_000_0012_01CC88EA.A516EE50 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="----=_NextPart_001_0013_01CC88EA.A516EE50" ------=_NextPart_001_0013_01CC88EA.A516EE50 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="Windows-1252" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Yes, temperature sensor in particular can give misleading information at = times. I remember in my much younger days heading across the desert outside = of Bakersfield, Ca in and old, worn-out 1952 flat-head 8 Mercury with = over 100K miles ( a lot in those days). It had always ran hot and used = water due to cracks in the cylinder head and block - well, I was head = home after being in Calif for overly long. As the sun rose so did the = coolant temperature - I said to hell, with it - I'm going to run her = until the engine blows.=20 Well, after a few minutes I was surprised to discover the coolant temps = headed back down. It got down into a acceptable range and I continued = on arriving safely home in Oklahoma. =20 It was not until much later telling the story to a knowledgeable = mechanic that he informed me the reason that the coolant temp went down = was I had boiled out the coolant and there was none to bath the = temperature sensor and air being a poorer conductor of heat than water - = the temp sensor was not getting a true heat load. The reason the engine = did not blow he claimed was that it was so worn out that all the = tolerances was large enough to accommodate the expansion caused by the = heat. So, yes, I like sensors, but I trust nothing!!!.=20 Anytime you hear an shut down rotary engine "ping" after a run up - you = know it probably was hotter than it should have been. Hope things get better for you - talk about a run of sour luck. Ed From: Chris Barber=20 Sent: Wednesday, October 12, 2011 2:04 PM To: Rotary motors in aircraft=20 Subject: [FlyRotary] Re: The rotary may live. Thanks for the offer Ed ,but....uh, no. I had been having quite a lot = of fun in my very expensive winged go-cart. However, I am once again = delayed. I had rotator cuff surgery on Friday and believe it or not, it = is difficult to work on my plane with one arm (really hard to type too). = On that note, the engine seems to be running swell. I am having some = sensor problems that i will address in a separate post. I trashed my = first engine due to bad sensors. FWIW. Chris -------------------------------------------------------------------------= ------- From: Rotary motors in aircraft [flyrotary@lancaironline.net] on behalf = of Ed Anderson [eanderson@carolina.rr.com] Sent: Wednesday, October 12, 2011 12:44 PM To: Rotary motors in aircraft Subject: [FlyRotary] Re: The rotary may live. Well, Chris, Some of us get notoriety because of time in unpowered flight - others = for their teething problems - want to swap? {:>) Ed From: Chris Barber=20 Sent: Wednesday, October 12, 2011 1:10 PM To: Rotary motors in aircraft=20 Subject: [FlyRotary] Re: The rotary may live. Teething problems.....I resemble that remark.... Chris Barber Houston 91 turbo 13b Velocity SE -------------------------------------------------------------------------= ------- From: Rotary motors in aircraft [flyrotary@lancaironline.net] on behalf = of Ed Anderson [eanderson@carolina.rr.com] Sent: Wednesday, October 12, 2011 11:59 AM To: Rotary motors in aircraft Subject: [FlyRotary] Re: The rotary may live. Hi Jeff, 590 hours in 12 years. However, I have only flow a few hours in the = last 3 years, mainly to Sun & Fun and other Flyins. Just got too busy = with other things (my small business in electronics is growing) I have a 1987 Turbo 13B sitting in my shop as well as various parts such = as an extra e shaft, ignition modules, CAS, etc. The only information I have ever seen on TBO of a rotary in aircraft use = was done by a German University for the Wankle institution - and they = estimate 4000 hour TBO. Since I would have been happy with 1000 hours - = I have not worried about it. Tracy did some measurements at around the = 800 hour point on his original junk yard 13B and found hardly any wear = on the parts designed to wear (like apex seals). So it appears once you = have your engine set up and past the teething problems you can expect a = long run time. Ed From: Jeff Whaley=20 Sent: Wednesday, October 12, 2011 12:48 PM To: Rotary motors in aircraft=20 Subject: [FlyRotary] Re: The rotary may live. Hey Ed, how many hours do you have now, in how many years - 500 hrs in = 10 years, something like that? What is the likely TBO in your configuration and flight profile - 1000, = 1500? How many useable spare core parts do you have sitting on the shelf? We had all better keep our existing engines alive and stop dreaming = about 16X=92s =85 frankly I=92m surprised Mazda has toughed it out with = the rotary this long. Happily flying mine these days, approaching 60 hours =85 Jeff From: "Ed Anderson" =20 Subject: Re: [FlyRotary] The rotary may live. =20 Date: Tue, 11 Oct 2011 23:55:51 -0400 =20 To: "Rotary motors in aircraft" = =20 =20 =20 =20 =20 Thanks, Sam One can only hope it will be in the not so distant future. Ed Edward L. Anderson Anderson Electronic Enterprises LLC 305 Reefton Road Weddington, NC 28104 http://www.andersonee.com http://www.eicommander.com =20 This message, and the documents attached hereto, is intended only for = the addressee and may contain privileged or confidential information. = Any unauthorized disclosure is strictly prohibited. If you have received = this message in error, please notify us immediately so that we may = correct our internal records. Please then delete the original message. = Thank you. ------=_NextPart_001_0013_01CC88EA.A516EE50 Content-Type: text/html; charset="Windows-1252" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
Yes, temperature sensor in particular can give = misleading=20 information at times.
 
  I remember in my much younger days = heading across=20 the desert outside of Bakersfield, Ca in and old, worn-out 1952 = flat-head 8=20 Mercury with over 100K miles ( a lot in those days).  It had always = ran hot=20 and used water due to cracks in the cylinder head and block - well, I = was head=20 home after being in Calif for overly long.  As the sun rose so did = the=20 coolant temperature - I said to hell, with it - I'm going to run her = until the=20 engine blows.
 
Well, after a few minutes I was surprised to = discover the=20 coolant temps headed back down.  It  got down into a = acceptable=20 range and I continued on arriving safely home in Oklahoma.  =
 
It was not until much later telling the story to = a=20 knowledgeable mechanic that he informed me the reason that the coolant = temp went=20 down was I had boiled out the coolant and there was none to bath the = temperature=20 sensor and air being a poorer conductor of heat than water - the temp = sensor was=20 not getting a true heat load.  The reason the engine did not blow = he=20 claimed was that it was so worn out that all the tolerances was = large=20 enough to accommodate the expansion caused by the heat.
 
So, yes, I like sensors, but I trust=20 nothing!!!. 
 
 Anytime you hear an shut down = rotary engine=20 "ping" after a run up - you know it probably was hotter than it should = have=20 been.
 
Hope things get better for you - talk about a = run of sour=20 luck.
 
Ed

Sent: Wednesday, October 12, 2011 2:04 PM
Subject: [FlyRotary] Re: The rotary may = live.

Thanks for the offer Ed ,but....uh, no.  I had been = having=20 quite a lot of fun in my very expensive winged go-cart.  However, I = am once=20 again delayed.  I had rotator cuff surgery on Friday and believe it = or not,=20 it is difficult to work on my plane with one arm (really hard to type=20 too).  On that note, the engine seems to be running = swell.  I am=20 having some sensor problems that i = will address=20 in a separate post. I trashed my first engine due to bad sensors. =20 FWIW.

 

Chris

From: Rotary motors in aircraft = [flyrotary@lancaironline.net]=20 on behalf of Ed Anderson [eanderson@carolina.rr.com]
Sent: = Wednesday,=20 October 12, 2011 12:44 PM
To: Rotary motors in=20 aircraft
Subject: [FlyRotary] Re: The rotary may=20 live.

Well, Chris,
 
Some of us get notoriety because of time in = unpowered=20 flight - others for their teething problems - want to swap? = {:>)
 
Ed

Sent: Wednesday, October 12, 2011 1:10 PM
Subject: [FlyRotary] Re: The rotary may = live.

Teething problems.....I resemble that remark....

 

Chris Barber

Houston

91 turbo 13b

Velocity SE

From: Rotary motors in aircraft = [flyrotary@lancaironline.net]=20 on behalf of Ed Anderson [eanderson@carolina.rr.com]
Sent: = Wednesday,=20 October 12, 2011 11:59 AM
To: Rotary motors in=20 aircraft
Subject: [FlyRotary] Re: The rotary may=20 live.

Hi Jeff,
 
590 hours  in 12 years.  However, I = have only=20 flow a few hours in the last 3 years, mainly to  Sun & Fun and = other=20 Flyins.  Just got too busy with other things (my small business in=20 electronics is growing)
 
I have a = 1987 Turbo 13B=20 sitting in my shop as well as various parts such as an extra e shaft, = ignition=20 modules, CAS, etc.
 
The only = information I=20 have ever seen on TBO of a rotary in aircraft use was done by a German=20 University for the Wankle institution - and they estimate 4000 hour = TBO. =20 Since I would have been happy with 1000 hours - I have not worried about = it.  Tracy did some measurements at around the 800 hour point on = his=20 original junk yard 13B and found hardly any wear on the parts designed = to wear=20 (like apex seals).  So it appears once you have your engine set up = and past=20 the teething problems you can expect a long run time.
 
Ed

From: Jeff Whaley =
Sent: Wednesday, October 12, 2011 12:48 PM
Subject: [FlyRotary] Re: The rotary may live.

Hey Ed, how many hours do you have now, in how many = years -=20  500 hrs in 10 years, something like that?

What is the likely TBO in your configuration and = flight=20 profile -  1000, 1500?

How many useable spare core parts do you have = sitting on the=20 shelf?

We had all better keep our existing engines alive = and stop=20 dreaming about 16X=92s =85 frankly I=92m surprised Mazda has toughed it = out with the=20 rotary this long.

Happily flying mine these days, approaching 60 = hours =85

Jeff

 

 

From:

"Ed=20 Anderson" = <eanderson@carolina.rr.com>

Subject:

Re:=20 [FlyRotary] The rotary may live.

Date:

Tue,=20 11 Oct 2011 23:55:51 -0400

To:

"Rotary=20 motors in aircraft"=20 = <flyrotary@lancaironline.net>

<= /TD>

 

 

Thanks,=20 Sam

 

One = can only=20 hope it will be in the not so distant future.

 

Ed

 

Edward = L.=20 Anderson
Anderson Electronic Enterprises LLC
305 Reefton=20 Road
Weddington, NC 28104
http://www.andersonee.com
http://www.eicommander.com

 

This message, and the documents = attached=20 hereto, is intended only for the addressee and may contain privileged or = confidential information. Any unauthorized disclosure is strictly = prohibited. If=20 you have received this message in error, please notify us immediately so = that we=20 may correct our internal records. Please then delete the original = message. Thank=20 you.
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