X-Virus-Scanned: clean according to Sophos on Logan.com Return-Path: Received: from imr-ma05.mx.aol.com ([64.12.100.31] verified) by logan.com (CommuniGate Pro SMTP 5.4.1) with ESMTP id 5112895 for flyrotary@lancaironline.net; Sat, 03 Sep 2011 13:36:17 -0400 Received-SPF: pass receiver=logan.com; client-ip=64.12.100.31; envelope-from=Bktrub@aol.com Received: from imo-da01.mx.aol.com (imo-da01.mx.aol.com [205.188.169.199]) by imr-ma05.mx.aol.com (8.14.1/8.14.1) with ESMTP id p83HZZJU026731 for ; Sat, 3 Sep 2011 13:35:35 -0400 Received: from Bktrub@aol.com by imo-da01.mx.aol.com (mail_out_v42.9.) id q.ea9.1793c8ea (55765) for ; Sat, 3 Sep 2011 13:35:30 -0400 (EDT) Received: from smtprly-de03.mx.aol.com (smtprly-de03.mx.aol.com [205.188.249.170]) by cia-md05.mx.aol.com (v129.10) with ESMTP id MAILCIAMD056-b2524e62655d26d; Sat, 03 Sep 2011 13:35:30 -0400 Received: from webmail-d169 (webmail-d169.sim.aol.com [205.188.252.84]) by smtprly-de03.mx.aol.com (v129.10) with ESMTP id MAILSMTPRLYDE036-b2524e62655d26d; Sat, 03 Sep 2011 13:35:25 -0400 References: To: flyrotary@lancaironline.net Subject: Re: [FlyRotary] Re: The good news and the bad news...... Date: Sat, 03 Sep 2011 13:35:25 -0400 X-AOL-IP: 50.46.146.205 In-Reply-To: X-MB-Message-Source: WebUI MIME-Version: 1.0 From: bktrub@aol.com X-MB-Message-Type: User Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="--------MB_8CE3876FFD5C178_1034_4EB8B_webmail-d169.sysops.aol.com" X-Mailer: AOL Webmail 34078-STANDARD Received: from 50.46.146.205 by webmail-d169.sysops.aol.com (205.188.252.84) with HTTP (WebMailUI); Sat, 03 Sep 2011 13:35:25 -0400 Message-Id: <8CE3876FFCC3BF4-1034-21329@webmail-d169.sysops.aol.com> X-Spam-Flag:NO X-AOL-SENDER: Bktrub@aol.com ----------MB_8CE3876FFD5C178_1034_4EB8B_webmail-d169.sysops.aol.com Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" How did you remove the muffler innards? I've got a Hushpower and at this= point, it's the only thing in the plane that makes me nervous, other than= the guy in the cockpit. Brian Trubee -----Original Message----- From: Dennis Havarlah To: Rotary motors in aircraft Sent: Sat, Sep 3, 2011 8:26 am Subject: [FlyRotary] Re: The good news and the bad news...... Bill,=20 =20 Great flying and decision making to get it back on the ground with "minor"= damage!!! =20 I sure hope we can find the cause to prevent it in the future. =20 =20 One idea: Rotor #1 - still great comp. Rotor #2 - None. First flight aft= er plugs changed. Any possibility one plug in Rotor #2 protruded beyond= the housing and did damage? Why does Rotor # 2 have no compression? =20 The muffler crap should not have damaged anything because it would only ge= t into the engine after the nose went down and the prop stopped. =20 But on the other hand - you would have had some power from Rotor # 1 "No= stumble, no hiccup, just instant silence" That indicates to me total fail= ure of fuel or ignition. =20 Concerning HushPower II mufflers - After Bobby H's. loss of power I remove= d my muffler and found the internals failing at about 225 hrs. I removed= all the internals and now fly with just the muffler shell. =20 Dennis H. ----- Original Message -----=20 From: Bryan Winberry=20 To: Rotary motors in aircraft=20 Sent: Saturday, September 03, 2011 9:53 AM Subject: [FlyRotary] Re: The good news and the bad news...... Bill, Helluva nice job on the emergency. Glad you=E2=80=99re unhurt. Bryan =20 From: Rotary motors in aircraft [mailto:flyrotary@lancaironline.net] On Be= half Of Bill Eslick Sent: Friday, September 02, 2011 11:52 PM To: Rotary motors in aircraft Subject: [FlyRotary] The good news and the bad news...... =20 I have been holding up reporting this until all the facts are in, but that= might never happen, so here we go. Good news: No injuries. =20 Bad news: I have some work to do. Photos at: http://www.tiny9.com/u/2101 On August 16th at 10 AM, I lined up for takeoff at my home airport (3600'= paved) into a 5 knot headwind. I had just finished changing the oil and= filter and plugs. Run-up was fine, so off I went. Approximately mid-fie= ld, and a couple of hundred feet in the air, it suddenly and without any= warning became very silent. Hit the big switch which puts direct battery power to everything engine,= but no noise. No more time. At this point flying the machine becomes TH= E priority. Dropped the nose and was amazed to see a little bit of runway= under the nose! I had fully expected to land in trees, houses or the riv= er, so I dove what seemed like straight down to capture as much runway as= possible while (somehow) holding the electric flap switch long enough to= get full flaps (noticed this later). Pulled probably my best round-out= ever - no bounce. Brakes to max and tail up for weight. I think my sub-= concious put it all the way on the nose to try to prevent going through th= e fence and down the hill. Wheel skid starts about 200 feet from the stop= ping point. Skid marks from the wheel pants, cowling and prop run about= the last 50 feet. It stopped nose down just off the end. The tail was= still over pavement. Pushed the slider canopy UPHILL, stepped out and do= wn. Noticed that I was not even scared by the whole event. Interesting.= Never even considered trying to turn around. Pre-thinking that non-opti= on apparently paid off. =20 More good news. No FAA or NTSB as it was a non-reportable incident. Didn= 't even bend the gear legs. Also, my neighbor crashed in a Challenger abo= ut 10 minutes earlier at the city airport about 10 miles away. The police= and rescue types were headed that way (they had injuries) and were not in= terested in my minor mishap. As for the engine. When we got it back to the hangar, the prop would turn= only haltingly. You could feel grinding going on inside. First try at= turning had it come up hard and stop. More fooling with it and it gradua= lly came looser and would turn. Really looked like something came loose= in there. Pulled a plug from each rotor and did a compression test. Rot= or 1 was 80-80-80. Rotor 2 was 2-2-2. More proof that something had come= loose. With that evidence, the insurance company allowed me to remove th= e engine for inspection. What I found was a pile of ground up ceramic jun= k. All the seals were still fine. Lots of time went in to finding where= that stuff came from. Went through every inch of the induction system.= Finally Jason Hutchison (my other on-airport rotary guy) broke the code.= While the RV was standing on it's nose, this crap from my burned-out Hus= hpower II ran back up the manifold and in the exhaust port. That is what= was grinding. Crap. Now the entire thing is off the firewall including= the engine mount. All the wiring is disconnected (did not find anything= loose or missing). I spent the morning looking under the panel for any= loose or broken wiring, but found none. When I get the EC-2 out, Jason= wants to plug it into his plane and we'll do the plugs and injectors test= . If that checks out, Tracy, it is coming to you for a good look. I don'= t know what else to check. The engine quit just like somebody reached ove= r and turned off the ignition. No stumble, no hiccup, just instant silenc= e. I honestly do not know if the prop was turning or not. I suspect not,= due to the silence and the fact that one blade is untouched. As you can see from the photos, there was something going on with Rotor 1.= Wear is apparent down stream from the plug holes and all 3 apex seals ar= e starting to chip in the center. There is quite a lot of carbon also on= the rotors after 170 hours. Going forward, I have decided to look at resale value for if/when my RV-12= days arrive. This means putting a (gasp) IO-360 on it. The rotary has= given me a safe 10-year run (til now, of course), so I have no regrets,= but this is an opportunity to make some changes, and parts are already on= the way. I will still be hanging out at the engine tent at S-n-F and whe= rever else gatherings happen. Hope to be flying by the first of next year= .... I'm sure some of you will have suggestions about what might have gone wron= g, and I welcome any kind of speculation, but bear in mind I am just looki= ng at a pile of parts and wires at this point. Both fuel pumps were on,= tanks were over half full, crank angle sensor worked fine. Guess it's obvious that I now have a RD-1A, EC-2, EFI Monitor (Ed's), Fel= ix 68/72 and Props Inc 68/72 wood props and LOTS of engine parts (my whole= 14-year stash) available! And priced to sell! Bill Eslick RV-6 13B/NA EC-2 RD-1A 750 Hours =20 ----------MB_8CE3876FFD5C178_1034_4EB8B_webmail-d169.sysops.aol.com Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Content-Type: text/html; charset="utf-8"
How did you remove the mu= ffler innards? I've got a Hushpower and at this point, it's the only thing= in the plane that makes me nervous, other than the guy in the cockpit.
 
Brian Trubee



-----Original Message-----
From: Dennis Havarlah <clouduster@austin.rr.com>
To: Rotary motors in aircraft <flyrotary@lancaironline.net>
Sent: Sat, Sep 3, 2011 8:26 am
Subject: [FlyRotary] Re: The good news and the bad news......

Bill,
 
Great flying and decision making to get= it back on the ground with "minor" damage!!!
 
I sure hope we can find the cause to prev= ent it in the future.  
 
One idea: Rotor #1  - still great co= mp.  Rotor #2 - None. First flight after plugs changed. &nb= sp;Any possibility one plug in Rotor #2 protruded beyond the hou= sing and did damage?  Why does Rotor # 2 have no compressio= n?
 
The muffler crap should not have damaged= anything because it would only get into the engine after the nose we= nt down and the prop stopped.
 
But on the other hand - you would have ha= d some power from Rotor # 1  "No stumble, no hiccup, just instant sil= ence" That indicates to me total failure of fuel or ignition.
 
Concerning HushPower II mufflers - After= Bobby H's. loss of power I removed my muffler and found the internals fai= ling at about 225 hrs.  I removed all the internals and now fly with= just the muffler shell.
 
Dennis H.
----- Original Message -----
Sent: Saturday, September 03, 2011= 9:53 AM
Subject: [FlyRotary] Re: The good= news and the bad news......

Bill,=
Helluva nice job on= the emergency.  Glad you=E2=80=99re unhurt.
Bryan=
 
From: Rotary motors in aircraft [mailto:flyrotary@lancaironline.net] On Behalf Of Bill Eslick
Sent: Friday, September 02= , 2011 11:52 PM
To: Rotary motors in aircr= aft
Subject: [FlyRotary] The= good news and the bad news......
 
I have been holding up re= porting this until all the facts are in, but that might never happen, so= here we go.

Good news:  No injuries. 

Bad news:  I have some work to do.

Photos at:  <= A href=3D"http://www.tiny9.com/u/2101" target=3D_blank>http://www.tiny9.co= m/u/2101

On August 16th at 10 AM, I lined up for takeoff at my home airport (3600'= paved) into a 5 knot headwind.  I had just finished changing the oil= and filter and plugs.  Run-up was fine, so off I went.  Approxi= mately mid-field, and a couple of hundred feet in the air, it suddenly and= without any warning became very silent.

Hit the big switch which puts direct battery power to everything engine,= but no noise.  No more time.  At this point flying the machine= becomes THE priority.  Dropped the nose and was amazed to see a litt= le bit of runway under the nose!  I had fully expected to land in tre= es, houses or the river, so I dove what seemed like straight down to captu= re as much runway as possible while (somehow) holding the electric flap sw= itch long enough to get full flaps (noticed this later).  Pulled prob= ably my best round-out ever - no bounce.  Brakes to max and tail up= for weight.  I think my sub-concious put it all the way on the nose= to try to prevent going through the fence and down the hill.  Wheel= skid starts about 200 feet from the stopping point.  Skid marks from= the wheel pants, cowling and prop run about the last 50 feet.  It st= opped nose down just off the end.  The tail was still over pavement.&= nbsp; Pushed the slider canopy UPHILL, stepped out and down.  Noticed= that I was not even scared by the whole event.  Interesting. = Never even considered trying to turn around.  Pre-thinking that non-= option apparently paid off. 

More good news.  No FAA or NTSB as it was a non-reportable incident.&= nbsp; Didn't even bend the gear legs.  Also, my neighbor crashed in= a Challenger about 10 minutes earlier at the city airport about 10 miles= away.  The police and rescue types were headed that way (they had in= juries) and were not interested in my minor mishap.

As for the engine.  When we got it back to the hangar, the prop would= turn only haltingly.  You could feel grinding going on inside. = First try at turning had it come up hard and stop.  More fooling wit= h it and it gradually came looser and would turn.  Really looked like= something came loose in there.  Pulled a plug from each rotor and di= d a compression test.  Rotor 1 was 80-80-80.  Rotor 2 was 2-2-2.=   More proof that something had come loose.  With that evidence,= the insurance company allowed me to remove the engine for inspection.&nbs= p; What I found was a pile of ground up ceramic junk.  All the seals= were still fine.  Lots of time went in to finding where that stuff= came from.  Went through every inch of the induction system. = Finally Jason Hutchison (my other on-airport rotary guy) broke the code.&= nbsp; While the RV was standing on it's nose, this crap from my burned-out= Hushpower II ran back up the manifold and in the exhaust port.  That= is what was grinding.  Crap.  Now the entire thing is off the= firewall including the engine mount.  All the wiring is disconnected= (did not find anything loose or missing).  I spent the morning looki= ng under the panel for any loose or broken wiring, but found none. = When I get the EC-2 out, Jason wants to plug it into his plane and we'll= do the plugs and injectors test.  If that checks out, Tracy, it is= coming to you for a good look.  I don't know what else to check.&nbs= p; The engine quit just like somebody reached over and turned off the igni= tion.  No stumble, no hiccup, just instant silence.  I honestly= do not know if the prop was turning or not.  I suspect not, due to= the silence and the fact that one blade is untouched.

As you can see from the photos, there was something going on with Rotor 1.=   Wear is apparent down stream from the plug holes and all 3 apex sea= ls are starting to chip in the center.  There is quite a lot of carbo= n also on the rotors after 170 hours.

Going forward, I have decided to look at resale value for if/when my RV-12= days arrive.  This means putting a (gasp) IO-360 on it.  The ro= tary has given me a safe 10-year run (til now, of course), so I have no re= grets, but this is an opportunity to make some changes, and parts are alre= ady on the way.  I will still be hanging out at the engine tent at S-= n-F and wherever else gatherings happen.  Hope to be flying by the fi= rst of next year....

I'm sure some of you will have suggestions about what might have gone wron= g, and I welcome any kind of speculation, but bear in mind I am just looki= ng at a pile of parts and wires at this point.  Both fuel pumps were= on, tanks were over half full, crank angle sensor worked fine.

Guess it's obvious that I now have a RD-1A, EC-2, EFI Monitor (Ed's), = ; Felix 68/72 and Props Inc 68/72 wood props and LOTS of engine parts (my= whole 14-year stash) available!  And priced to sell!

Bill Eslick
RV-6 13B/NA EC-2 RD-1A
750 Hours

 
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