X-Virus-Scanned: clean according to Sophos on Logan.com Return-Path: Received: from hrndva-omtalb.mail.rr.com ([71.74.56.125] verified) by logan.com (CommuniGate Pro SMTP 5.4.1) with ESMTP id 5112822 for flyrotary@lancaironline.net; Sat, 03 Sep 2011 11:27:42 -0400 Received-SPF: pass receiver=logan.com; client-ip=71.74.56.125; envelope-from=clouduster@austin.rr.com Return-Path: X-Authority-Analysis: v=1.1 cv=8/tC3RumM5rsUT5KRAstW8ZpQtAyVpHweSUJct9LT6E= c=1 sm=0 a=ToFzvHwIqmwA:10 a=e9Fp7UO/B8F9COq9AYcbcw==:17 a=Ia-xEzejAAAA:8 a=W_ZKl9HzAAAA:20 a=67zb6g2u0VjuARrt_T0A:9 a=q5bxiko_Id0yIj-T3q4A:7 a=wPNLvfGTeEIA:10 a=EzXvWhQp4_cA:10 a=x2kHiFxkmU-jce0p:21 a=wR1jEWiR2DJEYi8s:21 a=SSmOFEACAAAA:8 a=pedpZTtsAAAA:8 a=WgP81xWMtwKlKt1f5WoA:9 a=k99GCPTIbsh_FHMalkIA:7 a=eJojReuL3h0A:10 a=3vcT5UNcf4oA:10 a=e9Fp7UO/B8F9COq9AYcbcw==:117 X-Cloudmark-Score: 0 X-Originating-IP: 66.68.41.170 Received: from [66.68.41.170] ([66.68.41.170:56055] helo=DWHPC) by hrndva-oedge02.mail.rr.com (envelope-from ) (ecelerity 2.2.3.46 r()) with ESMTP id 91/91-05516-A47426E4; Sat, 03 Sep 2011 15:27:06 +0000 Message-ID: From: "Dennis Havarlah" To: "Rotary motors in aircraft" References: In-Reply-To: Subject: Re: [FlyRotary] Re: The good news and the bad news...... Date: Sat, 3 Sep 2011 10:26:58 -0500 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="----=_NextPart_000_06B4_01CC6A24.02CF2AC0" X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Windows Mail 6.0.6002.18197 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.0.6002.18463 This is a multi-part message in MIME format. ------=_NextPart_000_06B4_01CC6A24.02CF2AC0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Bill,=20 Great flying and decision making to get it back on the ground with = "minor" damage!!! I sure hope we can find the cause to prevent it in the future. =20 One idea: Rotor #1 - still great comp. Rotor #2 - None. First flight = after plugs changed. Any possibility one plug in Rotor #2 protruded = beyond the housing and did damage? Why does Rotor # 2 have no = compression? =20 The muffler crap should not have damaged anything because it would only = get into the engine after the nose went down and the prop stopped. But on the other hand - you would have had some power from Rotor # 1 = "No stumble, no hiccup, just instant silence" That indicates to me total = failure of fuel or ignition. Concerning HushPower II mufflers - After Bobby H's. loss of power I = removed my muffler and found the internals failing at about 225 hrs. I = removed all the internals and now fly with just the muffler shell. Dennis H. ----- Original Message -----=20 From: Bryan Winberry=20 To: Rotary motors in aircraft=20 Sent: Saturday, September 03, 2011 9:53 AM Subject: [FlyRotary] Re: The good news and the bad news...... Bill, Helluva nice job on the emergency. Glad you're unhurt. Bryan =20 -------------------------------------------------------------------------= ----- From: Rotary motors in aircraft [mailto:flyrotary@lancaironline.net] = On Behalf Of Bill Eslick Sent: Friday, September 02, 2011 11:52 PM To: Rotary motors in aircraft Subject: [FlyRotary] The good news and the bad news...... =20 I have been holding up reporting this until all the facts are in, but = that might never happen, so here we go. Good news: No injuries. =20 Bad news: I have some work to do. Photos at: http://www.tiny9.com/u/2101 On August 16th at 10 AM, I lined up for takeoff at my home airport = (3600' paved) into a 5 knot headwind. I had just finished changing the = oil and filter and plugs. Run-up was fine, so off I went. = Approximately mid-field, and a couple of hundred feet in the air, it = suddenly and without any warning became very silent. Hit the big switch which puts direct battery power to everything = engine, but no noise. No more time. At this point flying the machine = becomes THE priority. Dropped the nose and was amazed to see a little = bit of runway under the nose! I had fully expected to land in trees, = houses or the river, so I dove what seemed like straight down to capture = as much runway as possible while (somehow) holding the electric flap = switch long enough to get full flaps (noticed this later). Pulled = probably my best round-out ever - no bounce. Brakes to max and tail up = for weight. I think my sub-concious put it all the way on the nose to = try to prevent going through the fence and down the hill. Wheel skid = starts about 200 feet from the stopping point. Skid marks from the = wheel pants, cowling and prop run about the last 50 feet. It stopped = nose down just off the end. The tail was still over pavement. Pushed = the slider canopy UPHILL, stepped out and down. Noticed that I was not = even scared by the whole event. Interesting. Never even considered = trying to turn around. Pre-thinking that non-option apparently paid = off. =20 More good news. No FAA or NTSB as it was a non-reportable incident. = Didn't even bend the gear legs. Also, my neighbor crashed in a = Challenger about 10 minutes earlier at the city airport about 10 miles = away. The police and rescue types were headed that way (they had = injuries) and were not interested in my minor mishap. As for the engine. When we got it back to the hangar, the prop would = turn only haltingly. You could feel grinding going on inside. First = try at turning had it come up hard and stop. More fooling with it and = it gradually came looser and would turn. Really looked like something = came loose in there. Pulled a plug from each rotor and did a = compression test. Rotor 1 was 80-80-80. Rotor 2 was 2-2-2. More proof = that something had come loose. With that evidence, the insurance = company allowed me to remove the engine for inspection. What I found = was a pile of ground up ceramic junk. All the seals were still fine. = Lots of time went in to finding where that stuff came from. Went = through every inch of the induction system. Finally Jason Hutchison (my = other on-airport rotary guy) broke the code. While the RV was standing = on it's nose, this crap from my burned-out Hushpower II ran back up the = manifold and in the exhaust port. That is what was grinding. Crap. = Now the entire thing is off the firewall including the engine mount. = All the wiring is disconnected (did not find anything loose or missing). = I spent the morning looking under the panel for any loose or broken = wiring, but found none. When I get the EC-2 out, Jason wants to plug it = into his plane and we'll do the plugs and injectors test. If that = checks out, Tracy, it is coming to you for a good look. I don't know = what else to check. The engine quit just like somebody reached over and = turned off the ignition. No stumble, no hiccup, just instant silence. = I honestly do not know if the prop was turning or not. I suspect not, = due to the silence and the fact that one blade is untouched. As you can see from the photos, there was something going on with = Rotor 1. Wear is apparent down stream from the plug holes and all 3 = apex seals are starting to chip in the center. There is quite a lot of = carbon also on the rotors after 170 hours. Going forward, I have decided to look at resale value for if/when my = RV-12 days arrive. This means putting a (gasp) IO-360 on it. The = rotary has given me a safe 10-year run (til now, of course), so I have = no regrets, but this is an opportunity to make some changes, and parts = are already on the way. I will still be hanging out at the engine tent = at S-n-F and wherever else gatherings happen. Hope to be flying by the = first of next year.... I'm sure some of you will have suggestions about what might have gone = wrong, and I welcome any kind of speculation, but bear in mind I am just = looking at a pile of parts and wires at this point. Both fuel pumps = were on, tanks were over half full, crank angle sensor worked fine. Guess it's obvious that I now have a RD-1A, EC-2, EFI Monitor (Ed's), = Felix 68/72 and Props Inc 68/72 wood props and LOTS of engine parts (my = whole 14-year stash) available! And priced to sell! Bill Eslick RV-6 13B/NA EC-2 RD-1A 750 Hours =20 ------=_NextPart_000_06B4_01CC6A24.02CF2AC0 Content-Type: text/html; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
Bill,
 
Great flying and decision making to get = it back on=20 the ground with "minor" damage!!!
 
I sure hope we can find the cause to = prevent it in=20 the future.  
 
One idea: Rotor #1  - still great = comp. =20 Rotor #2 - None. First flight after plugs changed.  Any=20 possibility one plug in Rotor #2 protruded beyond the = housing and=20 did damage?  Why does Rotor # 2 have no = compression?
 
The muffler crap should not have = damaged anything=20 because it would only get into the engine after the nose went down=20 and the prop stopped.
 
But on the other hand - you would have = had some=20 power from Rotor # 1  "No stumble, no hiccup, just instant silence" = That=20 indicates to me total failure of fuel or = ignition.
 
Concerning HushPower II mufflers - = After Bobby H's.=20 loss of power I removed my muffler and found the internals failing at = about 225=20 hrs.  I removed all the internals and now fly with just the muffler = shell.
 
Dennis H.
----- Original Message -----
From:=20 Bryan Winberry
Sent: Saturday, September 03, = 2011 9:53=20 AM
Subject: [FlyRotary] Re: The = good news=20 and the bad news......

Bill,

Helluva = nice job on=20 the emergency.  Glad you=92re = unhurt.

Bryan

 

From:=20 Rotary motors in aircraft = [mailto:flyrotary@lancaironline.net] On=20 Behalf Of Bill Eslick
Sent: Friday, September 02, = 2011 11:52=20 PM
To: = Rotary motors in aircraft
Subject: [FlyRotary] The good = news and=20 the bad news......

 

I have been = holding up=20 reporting this until all the facts are in, but that might never = happen, so=20 here we go.


Good = news:  No=20 injuries. 

Bad news:  I have some work to = do.

Photos=20 at:  http://www.tiny9.com/u/2101

On August = 16th at=20 10 AM, I lined up for takeoff at my home airport (3600' paved) into a = 5 knot=20 headwind.  I had just finished changing the oil and filter and=20 plugs.  Run-up was fine, so off I went.  Approximately = mid-field,=20 and a couple of hundred feet in the air, it suddenly and without any = warning=20 became very silent.

Hit the big switch which puts direct = battery power=20 to everything engine, but no noise.  No more time.  At this = point=20 flying the machine becomes THE priority.  Dropped the nose and = was amazed=20 to see a little bit of runway under the nose!  I had fully = expected to=20 land in trees, houses or the river, so I dove what seemed like = straight down=20 to capture as much runway as possible while (somehow) holding the = electric=20 flap switch long enough to get full flaps (noticed this later).  = Pulled=20 probably my best round-out ever - no bounce.  Brakes to max and = tail up=20 for weight.  I think my sub-concious put it all the way on the = nose to=20 try to prevent going through the fence and down the hill.  Wheel = skid=20 starts about 200 feet from the stopping point.  Skid marks from = the wheel=20 pants, cowling and prop run about the last 50 feet.  It stopped = nose down=20 just off the end.  The tail was still over pavement.  Pushed = the=20 slider canopy UPHILL, stepped out and down.  Noticed that I was = not even=20 scared by the whole event.  Interesting.  Never even = considered=20 trying to turn around.  Pre-thinking that non-option apparently = paid=20 off. 

More good news.  No FAA or NTSB as it was a=20 non-reportable incident.  Didn't even bend the gear legs.  = Also, my=20 neighbor crashed in a Challenger about 10 minutes earlier at the city = airport=20 about 10 miles away.  The police and rescue types were headed = that way=20 (they had injuries) and were not interested in my minor = mishap.

As for=20 the engine.  When we got it back to the hangar, the prop would = turn only=20 haltingly.  You could feel grinding going on inside.  First = try at=20 turning had it come up hard and stop.  More fooling with it and = it=20 gradually came looser and would turn.  Really looked like = something came=20 loose in there.  Pulled a plug from each rotor and did a = compression=20 test.  Rotor 1 was 80-80-80.  Rotor 2 was 2-2-2.  More = proof=20 that something had come loose.  With that evidence, the insurance = company=20 allowed me to remove the engine for inspection.  What I found was = a pile=20 of ground up ceramic junk.  All the seals were still fine.  = Lots of=20 time went in to finding where that stuff came from.  Went through = every=20 inch of the induction system.  Finally Jason Hutchison (my other=20 on-airport rotary guy) broke the code.  While the RV was standing = on it's=20 nose, this crap from my burned-out Hushpower II ran back up the = manifold and=20 in the exhaust port.  That is what was grinding.  = Crap.  Now=20 the entire thing is off the firewall including the engine mount.  = All the=20 wiring is disconnected (did not find anything loose or missing).  = I spent=20 the morning looking under the panel for any loose or broken wiring, = but found=20 none.  When I get the EC-2 out, Jason wants to plug it into his = plane and=20 we'll do the plugs and injectors test.  If that checks out, = Tracy, it is = coming to=20 you for a good look.  I don't know what else to check.  The = engine=20 quit just like somebody reached over and turned off the = ignition.  No=20 stumble, no hiccup, just instant silence.  I honestly do not know = if the=20 prop was turning or not.  I suspect not, due to the silence and = the fact=20 that one blade is untouched.

As you can see from the photos, = there was=20 something going on with Rotor 1.  Wear is apparent down stream = from the=20 plug holes and all 3 apex seals are starting to chip in the = center. =20 There is quite a lot of carbon also on the rotors after 170=20 hours.

Going forward, I have decided to look at resale value = for=20 if/when my RV-12 days arrive.  This means putting a (gasp) IO-360 = on=20 it.  The rotary has given me a safe 10-year run (til now, of = course), so=20 I have no regrets, but this is an opportunity to make some changes, = and parts=20 are already on the way.  I will still be hanging out at the = engine tent=20 at S-n-F and wherever else gatherings happen.  Hope to be flying = by the=20 first of next year....

I'm sure some of you will have = suggestions about=20 what might have gone wrong, and I welcome any kind of speculation, but = bear in=20 mind I am just looking at a pile of parts and wires at this = point.  Both=20 fuel pumps were on, tanks were over half full, crank angle sensor = worked=20 fine.

Guess it's obvious that I now have a RD-1A, EC-2, EFI = Monitor=20 (Ed's),  Felix 68/72 and Props Inc 68/72 wood props and LOTS of = engine=20 parts (my whole 14-year stash) available!  And priced to = sell!

Bill Eslick
RV-6 = 13B/NA EC-2=20 RD-1A
750 = Hours

 

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