X-Virus-Scanned: clean according to Sophos on Logan.com Return-Path: Received: from mail-pz0-f48.google.com ([209.85.210.48] verified) by logan.com (CommuniGate Pro SMTP 5.4.1) with ESMTPS id 5108861 for flyrotary@lancaironline.net; Tue, 30 Aug 2011 22:03:29 -0400 Received-SPF: none receiver=logan.com; client-ip=209.85.210.48; envelope-from=crobinson@medialantern.com Received: by pzk34 with SMTP id 34so591381pzk.7 for ; Tue, 30 Aug 2011 19:02:54 -0700 (PDT) Received: by 10.68.24.228 with SMTP id x4mr123788pbf.261.1314756174804; Tue, 30 Aug 2011 19:02:54 -0700 (PDT) Return-Path: Received: from [10.10.50.68] (L3-NM-254.wwe.com. [63.208.148.254]) by mx.google.com with ESMTPS id i1sm26925899pbe.1.2011.08.30.19.02.52 (version=SSLv3 cipher=OTHER); Tue, 30 Aug 2011 19:02:53 -0700 (PDT) Message-ID: <4E5D964A.8000201@medialantern.com> Date: Tue, 30 Aug 2011 22:02:50 -0400 From: Chad Robinson User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Windows NT 5.2; WOW64; rv:6.0) Gecko/20110812 Thunderbird/6.0 MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Rotary motors in aircraft Subject: Re: [FlyRotary] Re: CG Products Intake Manifold References: In-Reply-To: Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="------------070002000605040205020707" This is a multi-part message in MIME format. --------------070002000605040205020707 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit On 8/30/2011 9:36 PM, CozyGirrrl@aol.com wrote: > ============= > Thanks for the kudos Ed =) > Yes the secondary injectors have retainers and floating caps on top > into which Swagelock T's are installed so that hard stainless lines > are daisy chained through. Once I figure out how to attach a picture I > will take one and do so. This portion of the manifold is now complete > to the silicone couplers and now needs joining to the rest of the fuel > system via the primary fuel rail block. > This is where we ask a few questions: > 1. are pulse dampers still used on the input to the primary fuel rail? EVERY source I consulted in my build insisted on removing the PD. Vehemently. It's not required, it's failure-prone, and its failure mode is to leak fuel in just about the worst place possible. Mazdatrix and Pineapple both recommend removing it from cars, to say nothing of planes. > 2. what is the best pressure regulator available? I can't say this is the BEST regulator, but after much research I chose the Aeromotive A1000-6 from Summitt. It has dual inlets which is nice if you want to run your rails in parallel, and if you don't you can use the second port for a pressure sensor or something. It has -6 fittings already, no adapters required, and a mounting bracket suitable for our firewalls. And it's referenced. The only drawback I've found other than cost is that it's fairly heavy. I'd bet somebody willing to chop off the bottom corners could save a quarter pound, but I'm not that brave. > 3. we have seen diagrams where the fuel goes to a T then separately to > the primaries and secondaries then back together at another T to enter > the regulator. We are not leaning this way due to concerns about vapor > lock; T'ing the lines reduces flow through each branch by 50%. True enough, although in fairness the AN-6 line is larger than stock and the stock ran the rails in serial through a bunch of small banjo bolt fittings and right-angle tube adapters - not exactly ideal flow. I believe the (Ed's?) idea about filing a bit of a groove in the ball seat in the regulator to let off pressure from the rail post-shutdown increases flow a bit more, too... More important, if the regulator is on the firewall you have a foot or two of hose to push bubbles into (my regulator is higher than my rails) when the pumps kick in. That last bit is a big safety advantage IMHO. Aside from heat shielding, making sure the fuel rail is not the highest point in the system (same as for the coolant) is the best answer to keeping bubbles out of it. In my case, I felt that the added weight (and another 2-3ft of hose to age and crack) of the extra hose from the filter to the second rail wasn't justified - although I can certainly see how some might disagree. Just my 2c, Chad --------------070002000605040205020707 Content-Type: text/html; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit On 8/30/2011 9:36 PM, CozyGirrrl@aol.com wrote:
=============
Thanks for the kudos Ed =)
Yes the secondary injectors have retainers and floating caps on top into which Swagelock T's are installed so that hard stainless lines are daisy chained through. Once I figure out how to attach a picture I will take one and do so. This portion of the manifold is now complete to the silicone couplers and now needs joining to the rest of the fuel system via the primary fuel rail block.
 
This is where we ask a few questions:
1. are pulse dampers still used on the input to the primary fuel rail?
EVERY source I consulted in my build insisted on removing the PD. Vehemently. It's not required, it's failure-prone, and its failure mode is to leak fuel in just about the worst place possible. Mazdatrix and Pineapple both recommend removing it from cars, to say nothing of planes.
2. what is the best pressure regulator available?
I can't say this is the BEST regulator, but after much research I chose the Aeromotive A1000-6 from Summitt. It has dual inlets which is nice if you want to run your rails in parallel, and if you don't you can use the second port for a pressure sensor or something. It has -6 fittings already, no adapters required, and a mounting bracket suitable for our firewalls. And it's referenced. The only drawback I've found other than cost is that it's fairly heavy. I'd bet somebody willing to chop off the bottom corners could save a quarter pound, but I'm not that brave.
3. we have seen diagrams where the fuel goes to a T then separately to the primaries and secondaries then back together at another T to enter the regulator. We are not leaning this way due to concerns about vapor lock; T'ing the lines reduces flow through each branch by 50%.
True enough, although in fairness the AN-6 line is larger than stock and the stock ran the rails in serial through a bunch of small banjo bolt fittings and right-angle tube adapters - not exactly ideal flow. I believe the (Ed's?) idea about filing a bit of a groove in the ball seat in the regulator to let off pressure from the rail post-shutdown increases flow a bit more, too...

More important, if the regulator is on the firewall you have a foot or two of hose to push bubbles into (my regulator is higher than my rails) when the pumps kick in. That last bit is a big safety advantage IMHO. Aside from heat shielding, making sure the fuel rail is not the highest point in the system (same as for the coolant) is the best answer to keeping bubbles out of it.

In my case, I felt that the added weight (and another 2-3ft of hose to age and crack) of the extra hose from the filter to the second rail wasn't justified - although I can certainly see how some might disagree.

Just my 2c,
Chad

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