X-Virus-Scanned: clean according to Sophos on Logan.com Return-Path: Received: from mail-fx0-f52.google.com ([209.85.161.52] verified) by logan.com (CommuniGate Pro SMTP 5.4.1) with ESMTPS id 5107547 for flyrotary@lancaironline.net; Mon, 29 Aug 2011 16:55:49 -0400 Received-SPF: pass receiver=logan.com; client-ip=209.85.161.52; envelope-from=wdleonard@gmail.com Received: by fxd18 with SMTP id 18so4564831fxd.25 for ; Mon, 29 Aug 2011 13:55:13 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=gamma; h=mime-version:in-reply-to:references:date:message-id:subject:from:to :content-type; bh=oG13FfWpwxwnO8+5VIkv2oEv2XIDjP1ul6L0JAHm90A=; b=MDT5BLpNP7FbCFhva9DTlg4HqXwXjGQqiUKRE0z0Shkyn7umvQ+vjZYjBdrty9wLXP UrWnE++szLwNHG4hREKdznfqXNT8qSac6v+rFp+XpUtqDNmRyiXBeVHIk9F4jxP6Ooh8 uvAGupZRFqT8ZsuMsBsrI4jTY1Q0pkgxkcj98= MIME-Version: 1.0 Received: by 10.223.62.73 with SMTP id w9mr896092fah.138.1314651312915; Mon, 29 Aug 2011 13:55:12 -0700 (PDT) Received: by 10.223.74.202 with HTTP; Mon, 29 Aug 2011 13:55:12 -0700 (PDT) In-Reply-To: References: Date: Mon, 29 Aug 2011 13:55:12 -0700 Message-ID: Subject: Re: [FlyRotary] Re: How to tune with ADI? From: David Leonard To: Rotary motors in aircraft Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary=00151748de4682854004abab1cc9 --00151748de4682854004abab1cc9 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=windows-1252 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Thanks Mark, There is another nail in that coffin. I usually use 91 MOGAS when at home, but there is no where to get MOGAS at airports here in the west. Dave Leonard On Mon, Aug 29, 2011 at 1:29 PM, Mark Steitle wrote: > David, > > My wideband O2 sensor started acting up soon after I switched to 100LL. = I > called the company rep to talk about a warranty replacement and he said t= hat > leaded gas will kill the sensor (and offered to sell me another sensor). = I > mentioned that there was nothing on their web site that said not to use w= ith > leaded fuel and he (basically) said, "so what". So, save your money if > you're running 100LL. > > Mark S. > > > On Mon, Aug 29, 2011 at 3:19 PM, David Leonard wrote= : > >> Thanks Bobby, >> >> What number are you looking for for mixture? >> >> On Mon, Aug 29, 2011 at 7:24 AM, Bobby J. Hughes wrote= : >> >>> ** ** ** >>> >>> David,**** >>> >>> ** ** >>> >>> Where are you injecting the water? >>> >> >> I am injecting into the plenum just before the throttle body and after t= he >> intercooler. >> >> >>> Here are the few facts *I think* I know about water injections.**** >>> >>> 1. Water is better for detonation prevention than an alcohol mix.***= * >>> 2. Alcohol mixture allows timing advance and more HP. >>> >>> Those are contradictory points. For, what is it that allows more timin= g >> advance other than prevention of detonation. I think you mean that wate= r is >> better at cooling, but alcohols make up for it by providing an apparent >> increase in fuel octane as well as cooling. >> >> >>> 1. Injection in the intake some distance before the engine block =3D >>> more cooling.**** >>> 2. Injection at the block =3D better detonation margin. >>> >>> what is the purpose of cooling other than improving detonation Margin? >> >> >> 1. Windshield wiper fluid is a good alternative to dealing with >> methanol. Usually about 40% alcohol. >> >> Not in Southern California. They sell blue stuff but I cant find any >> rated below 20deg F (7%methanol). I even found one, a deep blue color, >> going for $4/gal no less, that proudly proclaimed in big letters: "Prote= cts >> from freezing down to 32 degrees!" >> >> >> >> >> >> Also a good wideband is very useful. >> http://www.jdmpartswholesale.com/product/plx-dm-5-wideband-o2-52mm-displ= ay-sm-afr-combo-blackIt=92s my most used instrument. >> >> >> I Guess I should break down and get a WBO2 like the one you linked. But >> that is an expensive sensor that I will probably burn out with 100LL. H= ave >> you had any problems with 100LL? >> >> >> -- >> David Leonard >> >> Turbo Rotary RV-6 N4VY >> http://N4VY.RotaryRoster.net >> http://RotaryRoster.net >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> ------------------------------ >> >> *From:* Rotary motors in aircraft [mailto:flyrotary@lancaironline.net] *= On >> Behalf Of *David Leonard >> *Sent:* Sunday, August 28, 2011 10:24 PM >> >> *To:* Rotary motors in aircraft >> *Subject:* [FlyRotary] How to tune with ADI? >> >> >> >> Ok, So I have the new ADI system installed and working.... I think? >> >> >> >> Some of you smart racing guys probably have experience with ADI. >> >> >> >> Most of the instructions that come with tuning it are directed toward ca= r >> guys that have computers and knock sensors. All they do is turn the sys= tem >> on and the computer allows more advance because I is not sensing any kno= ck. >> The only real advise I have so for for me is that I should be running ju= st >> less than the amount of ADI that it takes to bog down the engine. My sy= stem >> is a fixed flow so I don't have much choice but it seems to be about rig= ht. >> If I use straight water (which I did for initial testing), the engine bo= gs >> after about 10-15 seconds of ruining the ADI system. But when I uses a >> 50/50 mix of water and denatured alcohol (too hard to find methanol arou= nd >> here, but close enough) the engine does not bog. >> >> >> >> So assuming my amount of ADI injected is about right, now I am supposed = to >> be able to lean to better power and advance the timing a little. But ho= w >> much? For the last testing flight I was using EGT for lack of a better >> guide. When the ADI comes on, my EGT drops by about 30 deg C, and there= is >> a hint of roughness to the engine. I can then lean a little and the >> roughness clears up. For my test flight I leaned until my EFT came back= up >> to where I normally limit it (890 deg C). But if I then add 5 more inch= es >> of MAP, there is still a hint of roughness even at 890 deg and I get the >> sense that it wants to be leaned a little more. But I am afraid to do >> that... We are talking 45" MAP and 7300 RPM here (185 KTS indicated >> (Vne) and climbing at 500 fpm). >> >> >> >> So here are my questions: >> >> Is EGT a useful tool here, and does leaning to get the EGT back to 890 >> make any sense? >> >> Since Methanol will do such a good job at preventing detonation, is it >> safe to lean further toward best power (peak EGT)? (note, that will be h= ard >> on the turbo... I need to remember to bring the spare one to Reno) >> >> How much advance do you think i can add? I was previously ruining 5 deg >> ahead of Tracy's recommended initial set up. Can't give a number becaus= e >> the EC2 retards the timing with higher MAP's. How much, I have not hear= d. >> I can easily add one deg at a time using Ed's EFI monitor. But without = a >> knock sensor am really in the blind. >> >> >> >> Thoughts? >> >> -- >> David Leonard >> >> Turbo Rotary RV-6 N4VY >> http://N4VY.RotaryRoster.net >> http://RotaryRoster.net >> >>> >> >> >> -- >> David Leonard >> >> Turbo Rotary RV-6 N4VY >> http://N4VY.RotaryRoster.net >> http://RotaryRoster.net >> > > --=20 David Leonard Turbo Rotary RV-6 N4VY http://N4VY.RotaryRoster.net http://RotaryRoster.net --00151748de4682854004abab1cc9 Content-Type: text/html; charset=windows-1252 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Thanks Mark,=A0

There is another nail in that coffin.=A0 I usually = use 91 MOGAS when at home, but there is no where to get MOGAS at airports h= ere in the west.

Dave Leonard

On M= on, Aug 29, 2011 at 1:29 PM, Mark Steitle <msteitle@gmail.com> wrote:
David,=A0

My wideband O2= sensor started acting up soon after I switched to 100LL. =A0I called the c= ompany rep to talk about a warranty replacement and he said that leaded gas= will kill the sensor (and offered to sell me another sensor). =A0I mention= ed that there was nothing on their web site that said not to use with leade= d fuel and he (basically) said, "so what". =A0So, save your money= if you're running 100LL.=A0

Mark S.=A0


On Mon, Aug 29, 2011 at 3:19 PM, David Leonard <= wdleonard@gmail.com> wrote:
Thanks Bobby,

What number are you looking for for mixture?

On Mon, Aug 29, 2011 at 7:24 AM, Bobby J. Hughes <= span dir=3D"ltr"><= bhughes@qnsi.net> wrote:

David,

=A0<= /span>

Where are you inje= cting the water?


I am i= njecting into the plenum just before the throttle body and after the interc= ooler.
=A0

Here are the few facts I think I = know about water injections.

  1. Water is better for detonation prevention than an alcohol mix.=
  2. Alcoho= l mixture allows timing advance and more HP.
Those are contradictory points.=A0 For, what is i= t that allows more timing advance other than prevention of detonation.=A0 I= think you mean that water is better at cooling, but alcohols make up for i= t by providing an apparent increase in fuel octane as well as cooling.

  1. Injecti= on in the intake some distance before the engine block =3D more cooling.<= u>
  2. Inject= ion at the block =3D better detonation margin.
what is the purpose of cooling other than improvi= ng detonation Margin?

  1. Windshiel= d wiper fluid is a good alternative to dealing with methanol. Usually ab= out 40% alcohol.
Not in Southern California.=A0 The= y sell blue stuff but I cant find any rated below 20deg F (7%methanol).=A0 = I even found one, a deep blue color, going for $4/gal no less, that proudly= proclaimed in big letters: "Protects from freezing down to 32 degrees= !"

=A0<= /p>

=A0<= /p>

Also a good wideband= is very useful. http://ww= w.jdmpartswholesale.com/product/plx-dm-5-wideband-o2-52mm-display-sm-afr-co= mbo-black It=92s my most used instrument.


I Guess I should br= eak down and get a WBO2 like the one you linked.=A0 But that is an expensiv= e sensor that I will probably burn out with 100LL.=A0 Have you had any prob= lems with 100LL?


<= span style=3D"font-size:10pt;font-family:Arial;color:navy">

--
David Leonard

Turbo Rotary RV-6 N4VY=
http://N4VY.Rota= ryRoster.net
h= ttp://RotaryRoster.net

=A0

=A0<= /p>

=A0<= /p>

=A0<= /p>

=A0

From: Rotary motors in aircraft [mailto:fl= yrotary@lancaironline.net] On Behalf Of David Leonard
Sent: Sunday, August 28, 201= 1 10:24 PM


To: Rotary motors in aircraft
Subject: [FlyRotary] How to tune with ADI?

=A0

Ok,=A0 So I have the new ADI system installed and wo= rking....=A0 I think?

=A0

Some of you smart racing guys probably have experien= ce with ADI.

=A0

Most of the instructions that come with tuning it ar= e directed toward car guys that have computers and knock sensors.=A0 All they do is turn the system on and the computer allows more advance because I is not sensing any knock.=A0 The only real advise I have so for for me is that I should be running just less than the amount of ADI that it takes to bog down the engine.=A0 My system is a fixed flow so I don't have much choice but it seems to be about right.=A0 If I use straight water (which I did for initia= l testing), the engine bogs after about 10-15 seconds of ruining the ADI system.=A0 But when I uses a 50/50 mix of water and denatured alcohol (too hard to find methanol around here, but close enough) the engine does not bo= g.

=A0

So assuming my amount of ADI injected is about right= , now I am supposed to be able to lean to better power and advance the timing a little.=A0 But how much?=A0 For the last testing flight I was using EGT for lack of a better guide.=A0 When the ADI comes on, my EGT drops by about 30 deg C, and there is a hint of roughness to the engine.=A0 I can then lean a little and the roughness clears up.=A0 For my test flight I leaned until my EFT came back up to where I normally limit it (890 deg C).=A0 But if I then add 5 more inches of MAP, there is still a hint of roughness even at 890 deg and = I get the sense that it wants to be leaned a little more. But I am afraid to = do that...=A0 We are talking 45" MAP and 7300 RPM here (185 KTS indicated (Vne)=A0and climbing at 500 fpm).=A0

=A0

So here are my questions:

Is EGT a useful tool here, and does leaning to get t= he EGT back to 890 make any sense?

Since Methanol will do such a good job at preventing= detonation, is it safe to lean further toward best power (peak EGT)? (note, that will be hard= on the turbo...=A0 I need to remember to=A0bring the spare one to Reno)=

How much advance do you think i can add?=A0 I=A0was previously=A0ruining 5 deg ahead of Tracy's recommended initial set up.=A0 Can't give a number=A0because the EC2 retards the timing with higher MAP's.=A0 How much, I have not heard.=A0= I can easily add one deg at a time using Ed's EFI monitor.=A0 But without= a knock sensor am really in the blind.

=A0

Thoughts?=A0

--
David Leonard

Turbo Rotary RV-6 N4VY
http://N4VY.Rota= ryRoster.net
http://RotaryRoster.n= et




-- David Leonard

Turbo Rotary RV-6 N4VY
http://N4VY.RotaryRoster.net
http://RotaryRoster.net<= br>




--
David Leonard

Tu= rbo Rotary RV-6 N4VY
http://N4V= Y.RotaryRoster.net
http://Rotary= Roster.net
--00151748de4682854004abab1cc9--