X-Virus-Scanned: clean according to Sophos on Logan.com Return-Path: Received: from [66.219.56.245] (HELO mail.qnsi.net) by logan.com (CommuniGate Pro SMTP 5.4.1) with ESMTP id 5107038 for flyrotary@lancaironline.net; Mon, 29 Aug 2011 09:24:05 -0400 Received-SPF: none receiver=logan.com; client-ip=66.219.56.245; envelope-from=bhughes@qnsi.net Return-Receipt-To: "Bobby J. Hughes" Subject: RE: [FlyRotary] How to tune with ADI? MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="----_=_NextPart_001_01CC6657.6535F688" Date: Mon, 29 Aug 2011 08:24:42 -0600 Disposition-Notification-To: "Bobby J. Hughes" Content-class: urn:content-classes:message Message-ID: <74120FDE88CAFE4DBDA8814BCE20A3F333DF08@qnsi-mail.qnsi.net> X-MS-Has-Attach: X-MS-TNEF-Correlator: X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft Exchange V6.5 Thread-Topic: [FlyRotary] How to tune with ADI? thread-index: AcxmDDTvQuFkGDUfRBObxJTWWcyxqQAR15kg References: From: "Bobby J. Hughes" To: "Rotary motors in aircraft" This is a multi-part message in MIME format. ------_=_NextPart_001_01CC6657.6535F688 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable David, =20 Where are you injecting the water? Here are the few facts I think I know about water injections. 1. Water is better for detonation prevention than an alcohol mix. 2. Alcohol mixture allows timing advance and more HP. 3. Injection in the intake some distance before the engine block =3D more cooling. 4. Injection at the block =3D better detonation margin. 5. Windshield wiper fluid is a good alternative to dealing with methanol. Usually about 40% alcohol. 6. With a 100cc / 200 psi injector placed about 20" before the engine block my temp drop to between 15-20F above OAT. No intercooler at 40"MP. =20 =20 Also a good wideband is very useful. http://www.jdmpartswholesale.com/product/plx-dm-5-wideband-o2-52mm-displ ay-sm-afr-combo-black It's my most used instrument. Any unusual sound and my eyes immediately look at the gauge. I have also experienced a slight roughness using water and leaning (using the wideband) clears it up. I'm also running Tracy's timing curve. Playing with the timing curve under boost is way out of my comfort zone. I don't won't to be dependent on the water injection system to keep the engine together under high boost.=20 =20 Bobby =20 =20 =20 =20 =20 ________________________________ From: Rotary motors in aircraft [mailto:flyrotary@lancaironline.net] On Behalf Of David Leonard Sent: Sunday, August 28, 2011 10:24 PM To: Rotary motors in aircraft Subject: [FlyRotary] How to tune with ADI? =20 Ok, So I have the new ADI system installed and working.... I think? =20 Some of you smart racing guys probably have experience with ADI. =20 Most of the instructions that come with tuning it are directed toward car guys that have computers and knock sensors. All they do is turn the system on and the computer allows more advance because I is not sensing any knock. The only real advise I have so for for me is that I should be running just less than the amount of ADI that it takes to bog down the engine. My system is a fixed flow so I don't have much choice but it seems to be about right. If I use straight water (which I did for initial testing), the engine bogs after about 10-15 seconds of ruining the ADI system. But when I uses a 50/50 mix of water and denatured alcohol (too hard to find methanol around here, but close enough) the engine does not bog. =20 So assuming my amount of ADI injected is about right, now I am supposed to be able to lean to better power and advance the timing a little. But how much? For the last testing flight I was using EGT for lack of a better guide. When the ADI comes on, my EGT drops by about 30 deg C, and there is a hint of roughness to the engine. I can then lean a little and the roughness clears up. For my test flight I leaned until my EFT came back up to where I normally limit it (890 deg C). But if I then add 5 more inches of MAP, there is still a hint of roughness even at 890 deg and I get the sense that it wants to be leaned a little more. But I am afraid to do that... We are talking 45" MAP and 7300 RPM here (185 KTS indicated (Vne) and climbing at 500 fpm). =20 =20 So here are my questions: Is EGT a useful tool here, and does leaning to get the EGT back to 890 make any sense? Since Methanol will do such a good job at preventing detonation, is it safe to lean further toward best power (peak EGT)? (note, that will be hard on the turbo... I need to remember to bring the spare one to Reno) How much advance do you think i can add? I was previously ruining 5 deg ahead of Tracy's recommended initial set up. Can't give a number because the EC2 retards the timing with higher MAP's. How much, I have not heard. I can easily add one deg at a time using Ed's EFI monitor. But without a knock sensor am really in the blind. =20 Thoughts? =20 --=20 David Leonard Turbo Rotary RV-6 N4VY http://N4VY.RotaryRoster.net http://RotaryRoster.net ------_=_NextPart_001_01CC6657.6535F688 Content-Type: text/html; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable

David,

 

Where are you injecting the water? = Here are the few facts I think = I know about water injections.

  1. Water is better for detonation prevention than an alcohol = mix.
  2. Alcohol mixture allows timing advance and more = HP.
  3. Injection in the intake some distance before the engine block =3D more = cooling.
  4. Injection at the block =3D better detonation = margin.
  5. Windshield wiper fluid is a good alternative to dealing with methanol. Usually = about 40% alcohol.
  6. With a 100cc / 200 psi injector placed about 20” before the engine = block my temp drop to between 15-20F above OAT. No intercooler at = 40”MP.

 

 

Also a good wideband is very = useful. http://www.jdmpartswholesale.com/product/pl= x-dm-5-wideband-o2-52mm-display-sm-afr-combo-black It’s my most used instrument. Any unusual sound and my eyes = immediately look at the gauge. I have also experienced a slight roughness using water and leaning  (using the wideband) clears it up. I’m also running = Tracy’s = timing curve. Playing with the timing curve under boost is way out of my = comfort zone. I don’t won’t to be dependent on the water injection system = to keep the engine together under high boost.

 

Bobby

 

 

 

 

 

=

From: = Rotary motors in aircraft [mailto:flyrotary@lancaironline.net] On Behalf Of David Leonard
Sent: Sunday, August 28, = 2011 10:24 PM
To: Rotary motors in aircraft
Subject: [FlyRotary] How = to tune with ADI?

 

Ok,  So I have the new ADI system installed and = working....  I think?

 

Some of you smart racing guys probably have experience with = ADI.

 

Most of the instructions that come with tuning it are directed = toward car guys that have computers and knock sensors.  All they do is = turn the system on and the computer allows more advance because I is not sensing = any knock.  The only real advise I have so for for me is that I should = be running just less than the amount of ADI that it takes to bog down the engine.  My system is a fixed flow so I don't have much choice but = it seems to be about right.  If I use straight water (which I did for = initial testing), the engine bogs after about 10-15 seconds of ruining the ADI system.  But when I uses a 50/50 mix of water and denatured alcohol = (too hard to find methanol around here, but close enough) the engine does not = bog.

 

So assuming my amount of ADI injected is about right, now I am = supposed to be able to lean to better power and advance the timing a = little.  But how much?  For the last testing flight I was using EGT for lack of = a better guide.  When the ADI comes on, my EGT drops by about 30 deg = C, and there is a hint of roughness to the engine.  I can then lean a = little and the roughness clears up.  For my test flight I leaned until my EFT = came back up to where I normally limit it (890 deg C).  But if I then = add 5 more inches of MAP, there is still a hint of roughness even at 890 deg = and I get the sense that it wants to be leaned a little more. But I am afraid = to do that...  We are talking 45" MAP and 7300 RPM here (185 KTS = indicated (Vne) and climbing at 500 fpm). 

 

So here are my questions:

Is EGT a useful tool here, and does leaning to get the EGT back = to 890 make any sense?

Since Methanol will do such a good job at preventing detonation, = is it safe to lean further toward best power (peak EGT)? (note, that will be = hard on the turbo...  I need to remember to bring the spare one to = Reno)

How much advance do you think i can add?  I was previously ruining 5 deg ahead of Tracy's recommended initial set up.  Can't give a number because the = EC2 retards the timing with higher MAP's.  How much, I have not = heard.  I can easily add one deg at a time using Ed's EFI monitor.  But = without a knock sensor am really in the blind.

 

Thoughts? 

--
David Leonard

Turbo Rotary RV-6 N4VY
http://N4VY.RotaryRoster.net http://RotaryRoster.net

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