X-Virus-Scanned: clean according to Sophos on Logan.com Return-Path: Received: from mail-fx0-f42.google.com ([209.85.161.42] verified) by logan.com (CommuniGate Pro SMTP 5.4.0) with ESMTPS id 5061394 for flyrotary@lancaironline.net; Sat, 23 Jul 2011 17:40:17 -0400 Received-SPF: pass receiver=logan.com; client-ip=209.85.161.42; envelope-from=wdleonard@gmail.com Received: by fxe23 with SMTP id 23so5647129fxe.1 for ; Sat, 23 Jul 2011 14:39:41 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=gamma; h=mime-version:in-reply-to:references:date:message-id:subject:from:to :content-type; bh=JRXtECb6hWVTfuNPhvGnlgdayO33F9pfSk/C8SgUquc=; b=wNn3KJkNgNLM0zUENc4sBGSfO43OUYiuBgenKPORdaT/RVXYQufg3xYarGgeouDVS5 HwnyzudTpanw/U32xh5y09mwpsMBxxLJxQnJgUcHdwl+oe8NI8JMPyzKNfvCd/8LhwyQ cW+yCcCwGztjWsWimFIxRKbo0GefGADtprqt0= MIME-Version: 1.0 Received: by 10.223.9.217 with SMTP id m25mr4156153fam.122.1311457181203; Sat, 23 Jul 2011 14:39:41 -0700 (PDT) Received: by 10.223.96.197 with HTTP; Sat, 23 Jul 2011 14:39:41 -0700 (PDT) In-Reply-To: References: Date: Sat, 23 Jul 2011 14:39:41 -0700 Message-ID: Subject: Re: [FlyRotary] Re: Ok Here are the important flywheel measurements From: David Leonard To: Rotary motors in aircraft Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary=000e0ce0db5e6c7d1e04a8c36b43 --000e0ce0db5e6c7d1e04a8c36b43 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 I had already discounted the wide area washers (that went between the damper plate and flex plate) as no being needed. In this post I was referring to the standard size washers that would go just under the nut... (so perhaps I wouldn't need to machine a space on the back of the flywheel to accept the washer) But now I remember that the bolt goes in the other way, and it is the bolt head that will be behind the flywheel anyway. David On Sat, Jul 23, 2011 at 1:23 PM, Kelly Troyer wrote: > Dave, > Forgot to say you are correct that the wide area washers used on > backside of the flexplate > will not be necessary with the flywheel.............. > > Kelly Troyer > *"DYKE DELTA JD2" (Eventually)* > "13B ROTARY"_ Engine > "RWS"_RD1C/EC2/EM2 > "MISTRAL"_Backplate/Oil Manifold > "TURBONETICS"_TO4E50 Turbo > > *From:* Kelly Troyer > *To:* Rotary motors in aircraft > *Sent:* Saturday, July 23, 2011 3:16 PM > > *Subject:* [FlyRotary] Re: Ok Here are the important flywheel measurements > > Dave, > Sounds like you have it under control............Easy for me to say since > it is your dollar > but you might give some thought while the flywheel is in the mill to having > several holes > (looks like maybe 1 inch or better after you measure) milled equidistant(to maintain > balance) around the pressure plate slip surface............If you ever > plan on doing this it > will never be any less expensive since you will have already paid for setup > time...... I > think you could eliminate close to another 2 lbs off the > flywheel............FWIW > > Kelly Troyer > *"DYKE DELTA JD2" (Eventually)* > "13B ROTARY"_ Engine > "RWS"_RD1C/EC2/EM2 > "MISTRAL"_Backplate/Oil Manifold > "TURBONETICS"_TO4E50 Turbo > > *From:* David Leonard > *To:* Rotary motors in aircraft > *Sent:* Saturday, July 23, 2011 1:56 PM > *Subject:* [FlyRotary] Re: Ok Here are the important flywheel measurements > > Hi Kelly, Yes, I have it and I took it out to the hangar yesterday. All my > preliminary measurements seem to be more or less accurate. Meaning that I > will have to shave a little off the face of the flywheel and/or the spline > of the damper plate. I also need to extend the starter about .37 inches to > reach the ring gear. > > On the back of the flywheel, the surface is flat in the locations of the > holes and there is enough room to fit the nuts without any machine work, but > if I want to use washers, I will need to do some machine work there to fit > the washers. with such a thick steel plate, washers probably would not be > necessary. > > So my plans are to machine down face of the flywheel like you suggest, so > that the slip surface is flush with the main part of the plate. I will have > the mill drill the holes (Tracy suggests that, and it makes sense). I will > also mill 0.17 in off both the flange of the starter and into the adapter > plate to make up the 0.37 inches to the flywheel ring gear. Final > measurements still pending on that starter distance, but it is pretty close. > > -- > David Leonard > > Turbo Rotary RV-6 N4VY > http://N4VY.RotaryRoster.net > http://RotaryRoster.net > > On Sat, Jul 23, 2011 at 10:12 AM, Kelly Troyer wrote: > > Dave do you have your flywheel yet and have you come to any preliminary > conclusions on mods > necessary to make it and the starter mate up ??.............. > > Kelly Troyer > *"DYKE DELTA JD2" (Eventually)* > "13B ROTARY"_ Engine > "RWS"_RD1C/EC2/EM2 > "MISTRAL"_Backplate/Oil Manifold > "TURBONETICS"_TO4E50 Turbo > > *From:* Kelly Troyer > *To:* Rotary motors in aircraft > *Sent:* Thursday, July 21, 2011 6:50 PM > *Subject:* [FlyRotary] Re: Ok Here are the important flywheel measurements > > Dave, > Clarification.............. > > *One more thing the 86-91 auto trans starter is the same as the Turbo > starter.......Only difference * > *I can see is the front Bendix hsg has a little more material machined of > presumably to clear the * > *curved trans converter..............The mounting bolt spacing is also > different and new holes would * > *need to be drilled in the RD1X front plate...............* > ** > * *What I meant to say was "The 86-91 Auto trans and Turbo starter mount > spacing is different than the 86-91 > manual trans starter that Tracy calls out for the RD1X re-drive and > requires new mounting holes drilled"......... > > Kelly Troyer > *"DYKE DELTA JD2" (Eventually)* > "13B ROTARY"_ Engine > "RWS"_RD1C/EC2/EM2 > "MISTRAL"_Backplate/Oil Manifold > "TURBONETICS"_TO4E50 Turbo > > *From:* Kelly Troyer > *To:* Rotary motors in aircraft > *Sent:* Thursday, July 21, 2011 4:34 PM > *Subject:* [FlyRotary] Re: Ok Here are the important flywheel measurements > > Dave, > > Tracy said in previous post about the spacer that front of the drive > spline hub can be machined > off to provide clearance with front mount plate........... I realize > several measurements would have to > be made to verify hub positioning , input shaft spline engagement , etc + > starter engagement to > utilize a counterweight/flywheel spacer..............Also I know you are > under a time constraint in order > .......... > Have all the parts available and do a bolt up to verify all > dimensions...........Measure at least twice > before cutting metal !!........................<:) > > Kelly Troyer > *"DYKE DELTA JD2" (Eventually)* > "13B ROTARY"_ Engine > "RWS"_RD1C/EC2/EM2 > "MISTRAL"_Backplate/Oil Manifold > "TURBONETICS"_TO4E50 Turbo > > *From:* David Leonard > *To:* Rotary motors in aircraft > *Sent:* Thursday, July 21, 2011 3:52 PM > *Subject:* [FlyRotary] Re: Ok Here are the important flywheel measurements > > Thanks Kelly, > I am not sure that I am interested in using a spacer, because my > measurements say the flywheel will put the damper plate a little too far aft > (in the car) as it is. No good to fix one problem and create another. > There is not really any room to move the damper plate closer to the gear > box. > > My flex plate has not arrived yet, so no trial fits so far. > > Thanks for taking all those measurements. Looks like if I switched to the > turbo starter I could account for almost half of the material that I would > have to machine off. OTOH, you never know if switching the solenoid to the > other side is going to cause some sort of interference problem with > something else under my cowl... So I will probably just take off the > material and call it a day. > -- > David Leonard > > Turbo Rotary RV-6 N4VY > http://N4VY.RotaryRoster.net > http://RotaryRoster.net > > > On Thu, Jul 21, 2011 at 11:34 AM, Kelly Troyer wrote: > > Dave, > > Spent about 3 hours Wednesday in my 110F hangar measuring starters , > Tracy's RD1X mounting > plates , and both manual & auto transmission bell hsg starter mount > area................Tracy's RD1X mtg > plates from 13B rear hsg to starter mt surface is 3.550 (same as 86-91 > manual bell hsg)..............The > 86-91 auto trans measures 3.700 (essentially the > same)....................Measured my 86 manual starter > (what Tracy calls out for the RD1X re-drive) , My 88 auto trans starter (I > am using auto bell hsg with a > extended RD1C input shaft......Like Bulent did)(Do not ask Tracy to make > one.....Bulent and I cured > him of one off's) and a 93-95 turbo starter.............Results below > > 86-91 manual > starter 86-91 auto > starter 93-95 turbo starter > > mount diameter > 2.635 > 2.635 2.635 > > mt flange to bendix gear > 1.720 > 1.875 1.875 > (unactivated) > > mt flange to bendix gear > 2.220 > 2.375 2.375 > (solenoid activated) > > Have you done a test mount of the 'ACT" flywheel yet to measure > exactly how much the starter needs to be > repositioned??..................Also have you given any thought to using a > spacer suggested by Tracy between the > flywheel and counterweight.............I did not find my 0.500 spacer that > I offered while searching yesterday but I > will find it (thats what happens when your day job (caretaker) keeps you > 55 miles and 5 years from your project) > and you forget where you put things for safekeeping > !!.......................<:) > > > Kelly Troyer > *"DYKE DELTA JD2" (Eventually)* > "13B ROTARY"_ Engine > "RWS"_RD1C/EC2/EM2 > "MISTRAL"_Backplate/Oil Manifold > "TURBONETICS"_TO4E50 Turbo > > *From:* Kelly Troyer > > *To:* Rotary motors in aircraft > *Sent:* Tuesday, July 19, 2011 6:42 PM > ** > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > -- David Leonard Turbo Rotary RV-6 N4VY http://N4VY.RotaryRoster.net http://RotaryRoster.net --000e0ce0db5e6c7d1e04a8c36b43 Content-Type: text/html; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable I had already discounted the wide area washers (that went between the dampe= r plate and flex plate) as no being needed. =A0In this post I was referring= to the standard size washers that would go just under the nut... (so perha= ps I wouldn't need to machine a space on the back of the flywheel to ac= cept the washer) =A0But now I remember that the bolt goes in the other way,= and it is the bolt head that will be behind the flywheel anyway.

David

On Sat, Jul 23, 2011= at 1:23 PM, Kelly Troyer <keltro@att.net> wrote:
Dave,
=A0=A0 Forgot to say you are correct that the wide area washers = used on backside of the flexplate
will not=A0be necessary with the flywheel..............
=A0
Kelly Troyer
"DYKE DELTA JD2" = (Eventually)
"13B ROTARY"_ Engine
"RWS"_RD1C/EC2/EM2
&quo= t;MISTRAL"_Backplate/Oil Manifold
"TURBONETICS"_TO4E50 Turbo

From: Kelly Troyer <= ;keltro@att.net>=
To: Rotary motors in air= craft <= flyrotary@lancaironline.net>
Sent: Saturday, July 2= 3, 2011 3:16 PM

Subject: [FlyRotary] Re: Ok Here are the important= flywheel measurements

Dave,
=A0 Sounds like you have it under control......= ......Easy for me to say since it is your dollar
but you might give some thought while the flywh= eel is in the mill to having several holes
(looks like maybe 1 inch or better after you me= asure) milled equidistant (to maintain=
balance)=A0around the pressure plate slip surface............If you ever plan on doin= g this it=A0
will never be any less expensive since you will= have already paid for setup time...... I
think you could eliminate close to another 2 lb= s off the flywheel............FWIW=A0
=A0
Kelly Troyer
"DYKE DELTA JD2&= quot; (Eventually)
"13B ROTARY"_ Engine
"RWS"_RD1C/EC= 2/EM2
"MISTRAL"_Backplate/Oil Manifold
"TURBONETICS"_TO4E50 Turbo

From: David Leonard &l= t;wdleonard@gmail.= com>
To: Rotary mo= tors in aircraft <flyrotary@lancaironline.net>
Sent: Saturday, July 23, 201= 1 1:56 PM
Subject: [FlyRo= tary] Re: Ok Here are the important flywheel measurements
<= /font>
Hi Kelly, Yes, I have it and I took it out to the hangar yesterday.=A0= All my preliminary measurements seem to be more or less accurate.=A0 Meani= ng that I will have to shave a little off the face of the flywheel and/or t= he spline of the damper plate.=A0 I also need to extend the starter about .= 37 inches to reach the ring gear.=A0

On the back of the flywheel, the surface is flat in the locations of th= e holes and there is enough room to fit the nuts without any machine work, = but if I want to use washers, I will need to do some machine work there to = fit the washers.=A0 with such a thick steel plate, washers probably would n= ot be necessary.=A0

So my plans are to machine down face of the flywheel like you suggest, = so that the slip surface is flush with the main part of the plate.=A0 I wil= l have the mill drill the holes (Tracy suggests that, and it makes sense).= =A0 I will also mill 0.17 in off both the flange of the starter and into the adapter plate to make up the 0.37 i= nches to the flywheel ring gear.=A0 Final measurements still pending on tha= t starter distance, but it is pretty close.

--
David Leonard

Turbo Rotary RV-6 N4VY
http://N4VY.RotaryRoster.net
http://RotaryRoster.net

On Sat, Jul 23, 2011 at 10:12 AM, Kelly Troyer <<= a href=3D"mailto:keltro@att.net" rel=3D"nofollow" target=3D"_blank">keltro@= att.net> wrote:
Dave do you have your flywheel yet and have you come to any prel= iminary conclusions on mods
necessary to make it and the starter mate up ??..............
=A0
Kelly Troyer
"DYKE DELTA JD2" (Eventually)
"13B ROTARY"_ Engine
"RWS&= quot;_RD1C/EC2/EM2
"MISTRAL"_Backplate/Oil Manifold
"TURBONETICS"_TO4E50 Turbo

From: Kelly Troyer <= ;keltr= o@att.net>
To: Rot= ary motors in aircraft <flyrotary@lancaironline.net>
Sent: Thursday, July 21, 201= 1 6:50 PM
Subject: [FlyRo= tary] Re: Ok Here are the important flywheel measurements

Dave,
=A0=A0=A0 Clarification..............<= /span>
=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0
One more thing the 86-91 auto trans starter is t= he same as the=A0 Turbo starter.......Only difference
I can see is the front Bendix hsg has a little more material machined of presumably to clear t= he
curved trans converter..............The mounting bolt spacing is also different and new holes would
need to be drilled in the RD1X front plate...............=
=A0
=A0=A0 What I meant to say was "The 86-91 Auto trans=A0and Turbo starter mount spacing i= s different than the 86-91
manual trans starter that Tracy calls out for=A0the= RD1X re-drive and requires new mounting holes drilled".........=A0=
=A0
Kelly Troyer
"DYKE DELTA JD2" (Eventually)
"13B ROTARY"_ Engine
"= RWS"_RD1C/EC2/EM2
&= quot;MISTRAL"_Backplate/Oil Manifold
"TURBONETICS"_TO4E50 Turbo

From: Kelly Troyer <= ;keltr= o@att.net>
To: Rot= ary motors in aircraft <flyrotary@lancaironline.net>
Sent: Thursday, July 21, 201= 1 4:34 PM
Subject: [FlyRo= tary] Re: Ok Here are the important flywheel measurements

Dave,
=A0
=A0=A0=A0 Tracy said in previous post about the spacer that fron= t of the drive spline hub can be machined
off to provide clearance with front mount plate........... I rea= lize several measurements would have to
be made to verify hub positioning , input shaft spline engagemen= t=A0, etc + starter engagement to
utilize a counterweight/flywheel spacer..............Also I know= you are under a time constraint in = order
..........=A0
=A0 Have all the parts available and do a bolt up to verify all = dimensions...........Measure at least twice
before cutting metal !!........................<:)=
=A0
Kelly Troyer
"DYKE DELTA JD2" (Eventually)
"13B ROTARY"_ Engine
"= RWS"_RD1C/EC2/EM2
&= quot;MISTRAL"_Backplate/Oil Manifold
"TURBONETICS"_TO4E50 Turbo

From: David Leonard &l= t;wdleonard@gmail.com>
To: Rotary motors in aircraft <flyrotary@lancaironline.net>
Sent: Thursday, July 21, 201= 1 3:52 PM
Subject: [FlyRo= tary] Re: Ok Here are the important flywheel measurements

Thanks Kelly,
I am not sure that I am interested in using a spacer, because my measu= rements say=A0the flywheel will put the damper plate a little too far=A0aft= (in the car)=A0as it is.=A0 No good to fix one problem=A0and create=A0anot= her.=A0 There is not really any room to move the damper plate closer to the= gear box.
=A0
My flex plate has not arrived yet, so no trial fits so far.
=A0
Thanks for taking all those measurements.=A0 Looks like if I switched = to the turbo starter I could account for almost half of the material that I= would have to machine off.=A0 OTOH, you never know if switching the soleno= id to the other side is going to cause some sort of interference problem wi= th something else under my cowl... So I will probably just take off the mat= erial and call it a day.
On Thu, Jul 21, 2011 at 11:34 AM, Kelly Troyer <<= a href=3D"mailto:keltro@att.net" rel=3D"nofollow" target=3D"_blank">keltro@= att.net> wrote:
Dave,
=A0
=A0=A0 Spent about 3 hours Wednesday in my 110F hangar measuring starters , Tracy's RD1X mountin= g
plates , and both manual & auto transmission bell hsg sta= rter mount area................Tracy's RD1X mtg
plates from 13B rear hsg to starter mt surface is 3.550 (same= as 86-91 manual bell hsg= )..............The
86-91 auto trans measures 3.700 (essentially the same)..........= ..........Measured my 86 manual starter
(what Tracy calls out for the RD1X re-drive) , My 88 auto trans starter (I am using auto bell = hsg= with a
extended RD1C input shaft......Like Bulent did)(Do not ask Tr= acy to make one.....Bulent and I cured
him of one off's<= /span>) and a 93-95 turbo starter.............R= esults below
=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0= =A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0
=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0= =A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0 86-91 manual s= tarter=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0= =A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0 86-91 auto starter=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0= =A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0= 93-95 turbo starter
=A0
mount diameter=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0= =A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0 =A02.635=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0= =A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0= =A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0 2.635=A0= =A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0= =A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0= 2.635
=A0
mt flange to bendix gear=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0= =A0 1.720=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0= =A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0= =A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0 1.875=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0= =A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0= =A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0 1.875
=A0=A0=A0=A0 (unactivated)
=A0
mt flange to bendix gear=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0= =A0 2.220=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0= =A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0= =A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0 2.375=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0= =A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0= =A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0 2.375
=A0=A0=A0 (solenoid activated)
=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0
=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0 Have you done a test mount of the 'ACT&qu= ot; flywheel yet to measure exactly how much the starter needs to be
repositioned??..................Also have you given any thought = to using<= /span> a spacer suggested by Tracy between the =
flywheel and counterweight.............I did not find=A0my =A00.= 500 spacer that I offered while searching yesterday but I
will find it (thats what happens when your day job (caretaker= ) keeps you 55 miles and 5 years from your project)
and you forget where you put things for safekeeping !!..........= .............<:)
=A0
=A0
Kelly Troyer
"DYKE DELTA JD2" (Eventually)
"13B ROTARY"_ Engine
"= RWS"_RD1C/EC2/EM2
&= quot;MISTRAL"_Backplate/Oil Manifold
"TURBONETICS"_TO4E50 Turbo

From: Kelly Troyer <= ;keltr= o@att.net>=20

To: Rotary motors i= n aircraft <flyrotary@lancaironline.net>
Sent: Tuesday, July 19, 2011 6:42 PM= =20

=A0













<= /div>



-= -
David Leonard

Turbo Rotary RV-6 N4VY
http://N4VY.RotaryRoster.net
http://RotaryRoster.net
--000e0ce0db5e6c7d1e04a8c36b43--