X-Virus-Scanned: clean according to Sophos on Logan.com Return-Path: Received: from nm7.access.bullet.mail.sp2.yahoo.com ([98.139.44.134] verified) by logan.com (CommuniGate Pro SMTP 5.4.0) with SMTP id 5059367 for flyrotary@lancaironline.net; Thu, 21 Jul 2011 14:35:33 -0400 Received-SPF: none receiver=logan.com; client-ip=98.139.44.134; envelope-from=keltro@att.net Received: from [98.139.44.107] by nm7.access.bullet.mail.sp2.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 21 Jul 2011 18:34:58 -0000 Received: from [98.139.44.78] by tm12.access.bullet.mail.sp2.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 21 Jul 2011 18:34:58 -0000 Received: from [127.0.0.1] by omp1015.access.mail.sp2.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 21 Jul 2011 18:34:58 -0000 X-Yahoo-Newman-Property: ymail-3 X-Yahoo-Newman-Id: 322668.60823.bm@omp1015.access.mail.sp2.yahoo.com Received: (qmail 25479 invoked by uid 60001); 21 Jul 2011 18:34:58 -0000 DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=att.net; s=s1024; t=1311273297; bh=pp3XV+vjHd31zm6U3LCVnE2rXtO11PyvLoHwv8IV93I=; h=X-YMail-OSG:Received:X-Mailer:References:Message-ID:Date:From:Reply-To:Subject:To:MIME-Version:Content-Type; b=CTYVV3stX1g3tQe74k/m6km0DTp3ewf330GJNJDZlwHBLiOf3pIb7lTmZpGB7XyMh6ir/L2xmqFAsgxB1kk8oKmhGFBir7dGQ8cZQfnRvszbHFSlHR+NnCh5E6uQtoyMdbYW+gJR6cPOGNjANSApD+UzeZkJJnqUyy4TfnLr2N0= DomainKey-Signature:a=rsa-sha1; q=dns; c=nofws; s=s1024; d=att.net; h=X-YMail-OSG:Received:X-Mailer:References:Message-ID:Date:From:Reply-To:Subject:To:MIME-Version:Content-Type; b=tmCT2mdsti40vz3xX5dftFruYFOZE0JdAXknRTofKz8CNvNH3g/zN7CGCBZfLf5kyBOI7I1PWr94aQ2mWcAKcfmvXiHv1TwI2tyzczcDG7I+D4WlO2PT666URk+tAqhQYAzFQ/EPZJNmipoOAesjMEWM4OGjIkhhlGIC+in5Q6Y=; X-YMail-OSG: G3L5RqwVM1l7u3YU34Z3Cho10EGf7CT.KftUJd3D2p3E2p6 dSdsIIjVYCvyxVChhzTIRzfrMlR5.rrkk4BijdQwlKkTVqgz11Uyt7t2F.k7 DqJdSXeG244GeAGkSz9mQS1v9Dly37wHAinziE_V0kP6zzL6PGPHRKwzP2qo Bd79p2XXsJjUXd1WsoZz4LUnYDjnQXuBieZiydTvmV9fpZnvrRczC.Hpn5R. AYjPvL8nQHGfkmI7iqw7stPafZ9apzKn.k0VibNORpgnRgVCdCDRiCBZuq2J b3950os6t.D0NzbmyWEmQTyTxYBbtqtl02RrNXj3JN9vtweXmssZXbucJioc wDfXOsrDo2Fsq51Pl8.NNVHG8JFeWtN60szvPfDg0w8piHEMU81OFCeS_WH3 VIZBOn1WDBKuDY5R6CCFimTIUah4w_z7LEnGsccP6ssU4OQf9AMiSLbAXtGV iHPQKiUHd.3nNAs.4Z1OxKyTuwggSMXwE_uMhSlAnu8c4YkSym4yz5WU7nbT eo.a4RB1u6S9fkeGuNSF8eLp4Ob_XDRaWYhtNS58Yzh2Hh0m3BcWqfh_J65R uZI0XTzsQbPwP2Meal2E9J6BcuaZfrV6N2sYfSPtmzxmwoClHEfaZYNJO2Y5 W8i1TjlY8UPYOB13jaOlWgir5E0l7BkDzBa4t1_QDwNgJdnJlEDeGR7XJbSJ N Received: from [208.114.39.18] by web83910.mail.sp1.yahoo.com via HTTP; Thu, 21 Jul 2011 11:34:57 PDT X-Mailer: YahooMailWebService/0.8.112.307740 References: Message-ID: <1311273297.16142.YahooMailNeo@web83910.mail.sp1.yahoo.com> Date: Thu, 21 Jul 2011 11:34:57 -0700 (PDT) From: Kelly Troyer Reply-To: Kelly Troyer Subject: Re: Ok Here are the important flywheel measurements To: Rotary motors in aircraft MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="0-669242241-1311273297=:16142" --0-669242241-1311273297=:16142 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Dave,=0A=A0=0A=A0=A0 Spent about 3 hours Wednesday in my 110F hangar measur= eing starters , Tracy's RD1X mounting=0Aplates , and both manual & auto tra= nsmission bell hsg starter mount area................Tracy's RD1X mtg=0Apla= tes from 13B rear hsg to starter mt surface is 3.550 (same as 86-91 manual = bell hsg)..............The=0A86-91 auto trans measures 3.700 (essentially t= he same)....................Measured my 86 manual starter=0A(what Tracy cal= ls out for the RD1X redrive) , My 88 auto trans starter (I am using auto be= ll hsg with a=0Aextended RD1C input shaft......Like Bulent did)(Do not ask = Tracy to make one.....Bulent and I cured=0Ahim of one off's) and a 93-95 tu= rbo starter.............Results below=0A=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0= =A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0= =A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=0A=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0= =A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0 86-91 ma= nual starter=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0= =A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0 86-91 auto starter=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0= =A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0= =A0=A0 93-95 turbo starter=0A=A0=0Amount diameter=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0= =A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0 =A02.635=A0=A0=A0=A0= =A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0= =A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0= =A0=A0=A0=A0=A0 2.635=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0= =A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0= =A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0 2.635=0A=A0=0Amt flange to bendix gear=A0=A0=A0=A0= =A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0 1.720=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0= =A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0= =A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0 1.875=A0=A0=A0= =A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0= =A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0 1.875= =0A=A0=A0=A0=A0 (unactivated)=0A=A0=0Amt flange to bendix gear=A0=A0=A0=A0= =A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0 2.220=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0= =A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0= =A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0 2.375=A0=A0= =A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0= =A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0 2.= 375=0A=A0=A0=A0 (solenoid activated)=0A=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0 =0A=A0=A0=A0=A0= =A0=A0 Have you done a test mount of the 'ACT" flywheel yet to measure exac= tly how much the starter needs to be =0Arepositioned??..................Als= o have you given any thought to using a spacer suggested by Tracy between t= he =0Aflywheel and counterweight.............I did not find=A0my =A00.500 s= pacer that I offered while searching yesterday but I=0Awill find it (thats = what happens when your day job (caretaker) keeps you 55 miles and 5 years f= rom your project)=0Aand you forget where you put things for safekeeping !!.= ......................<:)=0A=A0=0A=0AKelly Troyer=0A"DYKE DELTA JD2" (Event= ually)=0A"13B ROTARY"_ Engine=0A"RWS"_RD1C/EC2/EM2=0A"MISTRAL"_Backplate/Oi= l Manifold=0A"TURBONETICS"_TO4E50 Turbo=0A=0AFrom: Kelly Troyer =0ATo: Rotary motors in aircraft =0ASent:= Tuesday, July 19, 2011 6:42 PM=0ASubject: [FlyRotary] Re: Ok Here are the = important flywheel measurements=0A=0A=0ADave and Tracy,=0A=A0=0A=A0=A0=A0= =A0=A0=A0 That reminds me ...........I had a 0.500 spacer machined to go be= tween the counterweight and the flex-plate for my first=0Aversion of an eng= ine mount which used a 0.500 plate between the engine and redrive..........= ....Since I obtained the "Mistral"=0Aback-plate using a Lycoming=A0Dynafoca= l mount ring I no longer need that spacer.............With very little extr= a machine work=0Ait could be thinned down to the approx 0.375 Dave needs to= match his flywheel ring gear to the starter.............Dave I would=0Abe = happy to donate this spacer to your project (since I kind of got you into t= he flywheel decision)............Let me know and I=0Awill hunt it up and ge= t it to you quick as I can !!..............Thanks Tracy !!.............=0A= =0AKelly Troyer=0A"DYKE DELTA JD2" (Eventually)=0A"13B ROTARY"_ Engine=0A"R= WS"_RD1C/EC2/EM2=0A"MISTRAL"_Backplate/Oil Manifold=0A"TURBONETICS"_TO4E50 = Turbo=0A=0AFrom: Tracy =0ATo: Rotary motors in aircraft= =0ASent: Tuesday, July 19, 2011 6:09 PM=0ASub= ject: [FlyRotary] Re: Ok Here are the important flywheel measurements=0A=0A= =0AAre you guys sure you can't put a spacer between counterweight and flywh= eel? =A0Remember you can delete the large washer on the flywheel side of th= e RD-1x damper to help move it back. =A0 Also be aware that the nose of the= damper spline can be machined off to decrease the needed room between flyw= heel and adapter plate.=0A=0ADon't overcomplicate this thing!=0A=0ATracy=0A= =0ASent from my iPad=0A=0AOn Jul 19, 2011, at 5:52 PM, David Leonard wrote:=0A=0A=0AYea, that is a bummer, but I was not very ho= peful. =A0So we can weld an additional ring gear onto the face of the other= , or machine our=A0existing=A0starters and/or flex plates. =A0I will probab= ly do the latter. =A0Won't be that big of a deal I hope. =A0Thanks for bein= g the parts consultant. =A0At least now you have a spare start to use shoul= d you ever need one. =0A>=0A>=0A>David=0A>=0A>=0A>On Tue, Jul 19, 2011 at 2= :06 PM, Kelly Troyer wrote:=0A>=0A>Dave,=0A>>=A0=0A>>=A0= =A0 Turbo starter is here..........Priliminary quick and dirty measurements= are 1.875 starter flange =0A>>to far end of unactivated starter (bendix) g= ear) which is 0.121 more than your 1.754 number=0A>>and the same for all pr= actical purposes=A0considering probable slight errors.............I do not = have=0A>>1988 manual trans starter at the moment but will be at my hangar t= omorrow and will pick it up=0A>>to bring back with me for an in depth exam = for any differences between them............If there is=0A>>a difference I = would think it would be in the starter gear as 1986-91 NA manual trans star= ter=A0=A0=0A>>was used on a slightly smaller flywheel although it has worke= d well on the larger auto trans=0A>>flexplate..........."Sigh".........Such= is experimental aviation and so much for "AS"umptions....<:)=0A>>=0A>>=0A>= >Kelly Troyer=0A>>"DYKE DELTA JD2" (Eventually)=0A>>"13B ROTARY"_ Engine=0A= >>"RWS"_RD1C/EC2/EM2=0A>>"MISTRAL"_Backplate/Oil Manifold=0A>>"TURBONETICS"= _TO4E50 Turbo=0A>>=0A>>=0A>>From: David Leonard =0A>>T= o: Rotary motors in aircraft =0A>>Sent: Monday= , July 18, 2011 11:28 PM =0A>>=0A>>Subject: [FlyRotary] Re: Ok Here are the= important flywheel measurements=0A>>=0A>>=0A>>=0A>>Hi Kelly, =0A>>I alread= y took Tracys plate into account. (I measured it at .520 in). =A0So it was = 1.234 plus the .520 for the plate. =A0For ease, I measured when the solenoi= d was NOT activated. =A0Crossing fingers, but ready to mill the plate and s= tarter.... eh, I mean, hire someone to do it :-)=0A>>=0A>>=0A>>David=0A>>= =0A>>=0A>>On Mon, Jul 18, 2011 at 9:14 PM, Kelly Troyer wr= ote:=0A>>=0A>>Dave,=0A>>>=A0=0A>>>=A0=A0 So adding the RD1X mount plate thi= ckness 0.500 (1/2 inch)=A0we have a measurement of approx 2.254 inch.......= ....Tracy=0A>>>calls for a 1986 NA=A0(86 to 91 are the same) manual transmi= ssion starter.............I do=A0not know exactly what=A0difference=A0the = =0A>>>turbo starter has except the turbo flywheel and automatic flex-plate = are slightly larger in diameter and have more ring gear =0A>>>teeth=A0than = the 86-91 NA manual flywheel................There was no turbo engine offer= ed until 1987.............I should have the=0A>>>turbo starter in a few day= s so we can decide if it will be about 0.375 in longer=A0from mounting=A0fl= ange to end of the starter =0A>>>gear teeth when activated by the solenoid.= .............Cross your fingers !!............<:)=A0=0A>>>=A0=0A>>>=0A>>>Ke= lly Troyer=0A>>>"DYKE DELTA JD2" (Eventually)=0A>>>"13B ROTARY"_ Engine=0A>= >>"RWS"_RD1C/EC2/EM2=0A>>>"MISTRAL"_Backplate/Oil Manifold=0A>>>"TURBONETIC= S"_TO4E50 Turbo=0A>>>=0A>>>=0A>>>From: David Leonard = =0A>>>To: Rotary motors in aircraft =0A>>>Sent= : Monday, July 18, 2011 9:34 PM=0A>>>Subject: [FlyRotary] Re: Ok Here are t= he important flywheel measurements=0A>>>=0A>>>=0A>>>Kelly, here is the star= ter measurement. This is the starter that Tracy recommends, I forget which = one that is. =A0From the engine side of the mounting flange, to the far end= of the tear tooth, I measure 1.754 - give or take. =0A>>>=0A>>>=0A>>>--=A0= =0A>>>David Leonard=0A>>>=0A>>>Turbo Rotary RV-6 N4VY=0A>>>http://N4VY.Rota= ryRoster.net=0A>>>http://RotaryRoster.net=0A>>>=0A>>>=0A>>>On Mon, Jul 18, = 2011 at 6:16 PM, Kelly Troyer wrote:=0A>>>=0A>>>Dave,=0A>>= >>=A0=A0 While they are at it have them turn the pressure plate surface dow= n to the pressure plate mounting=0A>>>>level so all of the rubber osolator = is on a flat surface without a 0.018 step at the outer edge.......Or=0A>>>>= you could put a washer under the drive plate (like the top washer).........= ...But this would put the drive=0A>>>>plate further forward on the input sh= aft splines the thickness of the washer..........I do not khow if this=0A>>= >>would pose a problem or not...........=0A>>>>=0A>>>>Kelly Troyer=0A>>>>"D= YKE DELTA JD2" (Eventually)=0A>>>>"13B ROTARY"_ Engine=0A>>>>"RWS"_RD1C/EC2= /EM2=0A>>>>"MISTRAL"_Backplate/Oil Manifold=0A>>>>"TURBONETICS"_TO4E50 Turb= o=0A>>>>=0A>>>>=0A>>>>From: David Leonard =0A>>>>To: R= otary motors in aircraft =0A>>>>Sent: Monday, = July 18, 2011 7:55 PM=0A>>>>Subject: [FlyRotary] Re: Ok Here are the import= ant flywheel measurements=0A>>>>=0A>>>>=0A>>>>Well,=A0 NOW you tell me...= =A0 :-)=A0=A0 Yea, that was going to be an issues reguardless of which solu= tion we chose.=A0 I think I will bring mine to a machine shop and let them = figure it out=A0 :-)=0A>>>>=0A>>>>-- =0A>>>>David Leonard=0A>>>>=0A>>>>Turb= o Rotary RV-6 N4VY=0A>>>>http://N4VY.RotaryRoster.net=0A>>>>http://RotaryRo= ster.net=0A>>>>=0A>>>>=0A>>>>=0A>>>>On Mon, Jul 18, 2011 at 4:49 PM, Kelly = Troyer wrote:=0A>>>>=0A>>>>Dave,=0A>>>>>=A0=0A>>>>>=A0=A0 = Forgot to add that there are 3 clutch pressure plate locating dowels in the= flywheel.........You=0A>>>>>will have to knock these out with a punch as t= heir position will not let you properly center the =0A>>>>>RD1X drive plate= and will not let the drive plate "Float" properly..............I have not = come up =0A>>>>>with a method yet to center the drive plate with the absolu= te accuracy needed=A0for drilling the=0A>>>>>flywheel for the drive plate a= ttach bolts...........Maybe some of the group with more=A0machinists=0A>>>>= >skills than I can make a recommendation=A0!!..................Also the rea= r of the attach bolt holes=0A>>>>>will need to be spotfaced to provide a fl= at surface for the bolt head or nut and washer=A0 from=0A>>>>>what I have o= bserved on the backside of my flywheel........................<:)=A0=A0=0A>= >>>>=0A>>>>>Kelly Troyer=0A>>>>>"DYKE DELTA JD2" (Eventually)=0A>>>>>"13B R= OTARY"_ Engine=0A>>>>>"RWS"_RD1C/EC2/EM2=0A>>>>>"MISTRAL"_Backplate/Oil Man= ifold=0A>>>>>"TURBONETICS"_TO4E50 Turbo=0A>>>>>=0A>>>>>=0A>>>>>From: Kelly = Troyer =0A>>>>>To: Rotary motors in aircraft =0A>>>>>Sent: Monday, July 18, 2011 6:29 PM=0A>>>>>Subject: = [FlyRotary] Ok Here are the important flywheel measurements=0A>>>>>=0A>>>>>= =0A>>>>>Dave,=0A>>>>>=A0=A0 The link attached shows the prolite version (9.= 8 lbs) on the left in the photo.............Do you have=A0your starter flan= ge=0A>>>>>to gear measurement=A0handy as my RD1X starter=A0(not the turbo m= odel)=A0is 55 miles away at the moment...........=A0=0A>>>>>=A0http://www2.= advancedclutch.com/products/xact_flywheels.aspx=0A>>>>>=0A>>>>>Kelly Troyer= =0A>>>>>"DYKE DELTA JD2" (Eventually)=0A>>>>>"13B ROTARY"_ Engine=0A>>>>>"R= WS"_RD1C/EC2/EM2=0A>>>>>"MISTRAL"_Backplate/Oil Manifold=0A>>>>>"TURBONETIC= S"_TO4E50 Turbo=0A>>>>>=0A>>>>>=0A>>>>>From: David Leonard =0A>>>>>To: Rotary motors in aircraft =0A= >>>>>Sent: Monday, July 18, 2011 6:18 PM=0A>>>>>Subject: [FlyRotary] Re: Ok= Here are the important flywheel measurements=0A>>>>>=0A>>>>>=0A>>>>>OK Kel= ly,=0A>>>>>=0A>>>>>Thanks to all your hard work and research, I have ordere= d up the Prolite 9.8 lb version of this.=A0 Decided that I was done with th= e flex plates.=A0 Thanks for locating a great price.=A0 I am a little nervo= us that the picture does not look right, but I guess I can always return it= .=0A>>>>>Like you, I figure we will solve the starter issue one way or anot= her.=0A>>>>>=0A>>>>>-- =0A>>>>>David Leonard=0A>>>>>=0A>>>>>Turbo Rotary RV= -6 N4VY=0A>>>>>http://N4VY.RotaryRoster.net=0A>>>>>http://RotaryRoster.net= =0A>>>>>=0A>>>>>=0A>>>>>=0A>>>>>On Sat, Jul 16, 2011 at 2:21 PM, Kelly Troy= er wrote:=0A>>>>>=0A>>>>>Dave and All,=0A>>>>>>=A0=0A>>>>>= >=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0 Ok Dave the "ACT" "Streetlite" 13.8 lb flywhee= l was just delivered and I am in process of taking=0A>>>>>>your measurement= s to see where we stand................This flywheel is a thing of beauty (= to a RotorHead)=0A>>>>>>and my RD1C drive plate will bolt to it with no pro= blem (through drill and spotface the rear of the flywheel=0A>>>>>>because i= t has a slight taper in that area).............I just have to verify just w= here the RD1C drive splines =0A>>>>>>will be positioned (fore and aft) on t= he input shaft compared to the RX7 flexplate.............The clutch plate= =0A>>>>>>friction area is slightly raised (about 0.065) above the clutch mo= unt area and I would probably take it=0A>>>>>>down tto the clutch level (pr= obably not necessary but would reduce weight slightly.............I have a = 93-95=0A>>>>>>Turbo starter on the way (should take care of starter mesh pr= oblem)..............If you are interested I can=0A>>>>>>guide you to anothe= r 93-95 starter (used $49.00 with/shipping) if it is still for sale........= .....=0A>>>>>>=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0 One other thing at this time...........= ...The lighter 9.8 lb version may be usable but it is listed as 116=0A>>>>>= >ring gear teeth and I have not found out what its diameter is and what sta= rter would be used with it......=0A>>>>>>=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0 I suspect it= may be the diameter of the NA 13B flywheels and may use the 86-91=A0NA man= ual trans=0A>>>>>>starter............You need to talk to the manufacturer..= ........They are in Lancaster, Calif............The 9.8 lb=0A>>>>>>version = is a little more expensive due to more extensive machine work to reduce wei= ght.............See the=0A>>>>>>link below............The link to THMotorsp= orts has the best price I have found on the 9.8 lb flywheel......The=0A>>>>= >>photo on their page is not the Rotary 9.8 lb version...........=A0=0A>>>>= >>=A0=0A>>>>>>http://www2.advancedclutch.com/products/xact_flywheels.aspx= =0A>>>>>>=A0=0A>>>>>>=A0=0A>>>>>>http://thmotorsports.com/act/act_flywheel_= prolite/600140/i-47718.aspx=0A>>>>>>=0A>>>>>>Kelly Troyer=0A>>>>>>"DYKE DEL= TA JD2" (Eventually)=0A>>>>>>"13B ROTARY"_ Engine=0A>>>>>>"RWS"_RD1C/EC2/EM= 2=0A>>>>>>"MISTRAL"_Backplate/Oil Manifold=0A>>>>>>"TURBONETICS"_TO4E50 Tur= bo=0A>>>>>>=0A>>>>>>=0A>>>>>>From: Kelly Troyer =0A>>>>>>To= : Rotary motors in aircraft =0A>>>>>>Sent: Fri= day, July 15, 2011 12:34 PM=0A>>>>>>Subject: [FlyRotary] Re: Ok Here are th= e important flywheel measurements=0A>>>>>>=0A>>>>>>=0A>>>>>>Dave and All,= =0A>>>>>>=A0=0A>>>>>>=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0 Sounds encourageing..........= .....Replacing the starter with turbo model would seem to be=0A>>>>>>least = expensive and safer than adding additional ring gear + welding.............= .I also echo what=0A>>>>>>Bill and Bobby have said concerning the Al Wick f= ix and getting Tracy's thoughts about cause=0A>>>>>>of problem and perhaps = need for periodic inspection and/or rubber=A0isolator replacement........= =A0=0A>>>>>>=0A>>>>>>Kelly Troyer=0A>>>>>>"DYKE DELTA JD2" (Eventually)=0A>= >>>>>"13B ROTARY"_ Engine=0A>>>>>>"RWS"_RD1C/EC2/EM2=0A>>>>>>"MISTRAL"_Back= plate/Oil Manifold=0A>>>>>>"TURBONETICS"_TO4E50 Turbo=0A>>>>>>=0A>>>>>>=0A>= >>>>>From: David Leonard =0A>>>>>>To: Rotary motors in= aircraft =0A>>>>>>Sent: Thursday, July 14, 20= 11 11:41 PM=0A>>>>>>Subject: [FlyRotary] Ok Here are the important flywheel= measurements=0A>>>>>>=0A>>>>>>=0A>>>>>>I finally got to the hangar and mea= sured out my S5 turbo flywheel and the remains of my S5 flexplate.=A0 The r= esults are very encouraging, even as good as the possibly could be to make = the swap, but I only had ten min at the hangar before I had to leave to pic= k up my daughter from daycare, so they are one try and slightly sloppy... I= make no guarantees.=A0 The height measurements of the flex plate were part= icularly suspect because, well, mine is all warped and broken.=0A>>>>>>=0A>= >>>>>Ring Gear Diameter - Perfect fit.=A0 As we suspected, same size, same = tooth spacing.=0A>>>>>>=0A>>>>>>Ring Gear Fore-Aft Placement - As measured = from the underside of the big nut. (for all further reference, aft means af= t in the CAR).=A0 The flex plate puts the aft side of the ring gear 1.290 i= nches from the front of the big nut. The flywheel puts it 0.913.=A0 So the = flex plate puts the ring gear (appx) 0.377 in. further aft.=A0 This is actu= ally fortuitous because it just so happens that the ring gear thickness is = .365 ...=A0=A0=A0 So all we have to do to fix the discrepancy is weld and e= xtra ring gears onto to the flywheel ring gear and there will be teeth that= the starter can reach:(bottom of the page.. the cost $80)=0A>>>>>>http://m= azdatrix.com/flywheel.htm=0A>>>>>>It may also be possible to fix the discre= pancy by changing the starter... will look into that.=0A>>>>>>=0A>>>>>>Damp= er Plate Placement - On the flywheel, the mounting surface is proud (or aft= ) of the ring gear.=A0 On the flex plate, the mounting surface is recessed = (or forward) from the ring gear. A=0A>>>>>>nd it all pretty much works out.= =A0 That position on the flywheel will vary somewhat depending on which fly= wheel you have and how much wear you have on the clutch slip surface. But o= n my (I assume well-worn) flywheel the placement was 0.965 while the flex p= late was 0.950.=A0 Pretty damn close and given measurement error it might m= e meant to be right on.=A0 Or, any difference could be made up by trimming = down the spline on the damper plate or removing or adding spacers between t= he two.=0A>>>>>>=0A>>>>>>So in my mind, a flywheel is the way to go.=A0 Sto= ut, easy to get, pick your weight, only mods seem to be drilling the mounti= ng holes and welding on a second gear ring.=0A>>>>>>=0A>>>>>>-- =0A>>>>>>Da= vid Leonard=0A>>>>>>=0A>>>>>>=0A>>=0A>>=0A>=0A>=0A>-- =0A>David Leonard=0A>= =0A>Turbo Rotary RV-6 N4VY=0A>http://N4VY.RotaryRoster.net=0A>http://Rotary= Roster.net=0A> --0-669242241-1311273297=:16142 Content-Type: text/html; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
Da= ve,
 
   Spen= t about 3 hours Wednesday in my 110F hangar measureing starters , Tracy's R= D1X mounting
plates , and both= manual & auto transmission bell hsg starter mount area................= Tracy's RD1X mtg
plates from 13B rear hsg to starter mt surfa= ce is 3.550 (same as 86-91 manual bell hsg)..............The
86-91 auto trans measures 3.700 (essentially th= e same)....................Measured my 86 manual starter
(what Tracy calls ou= t for the RD1X redrive) , My 88 auto trans starter (I am using auto bell hs= g with a
extended RD1C input = shaft......Like Bulent did)(Do not ask Tracy to make one.....Bulent and I c= ured
him of one off's) an= d a 93-95 turbo starter.............Results below
   &n= bsp;            = ;            &n= bsp;            = ;
   &n= bsp;            = ;            &n= bsp;            = ; 86-91 manual starter         = ;            &n= bsp;            = ; 86-91 auto starter         &= nbsp;           &nbs= p;           93-95 turbo = starter
 
mount diameter =             &nb= sp;            =  2.635          &nb= sp;            =             &nb= sp;            =             2.635&nb= sp;            =             &nb= sp;            =             &nb= sp; 2.635
 
mt flange to bendix = gear            = ;  1.720          &n= bsp;            = ;            &n= bsp;            = ;            1.875&n= bsp;            = ;            &n= bsp;            = ;            &n= bsp; 1.875
   &n= bsp; (unactivated)
 
mt flange to bendix = gear            = ;  2.220          &n= bsp;            = ;            &n= bsp;            = ;             2= .375            = ;            &n= bsp;            = ;            &n= bsp;  2.375
    (= solenoid activated)
   &n= bsp;  
   &n= bsp;   Have you done a test mount of the 'ACT" flywheel yet to me= asure exactly how much the starter needs to be
repositioned??......= ............Also have you given any thought to using a spacer suggested by Tracy between the
flywheel and counter= weight.............I did not find my  0.500 spacer that I offered= while searching yesterday but I
will find it (thats = what happens when your day job (caretaker) keeps you 55 miles and 5 years f= rom your project)
and you forget where= you put things for safekeeping !!.......................<:)
 
 
Kelly Troyer
"DYKE DELTA JD2" (Eventually)
"13B ROTARY"_ Engine
= "RWS"_RD1C/EC2/EM2
"MISTRAL"_Backplate/Oil Manifold
"TURBONETICS"_TO4E50 Tur= bo

From: Kelly Troyer <keltro@att.net>
To: Rotary motors in aircraft <fly= rotary@lancaironline.net>
Sent:<= /SPAN> Tuesday, July 19, 2011 6:42 PM
Subject: [FlyRotary] Re: Ok Here are the important flywhe= el measurements

Dave and Tracy,
 
       That reminds me ...........= I had a 0.500 spacer machined to go between the counterweight and the flex-= plate for my first
version of an engine mount which used a 0.500 plate between the = engine and redrive..............Since I obtained the "Mistral"
back-plate using a Lycoming Dynafocal mount ring I no longe= r need that spacer.............With very little extra machine work
it could be thinned down to the approx 0.375 Dave needs to match= his flywheel ring gear to the starter.............Dave I would
be happy to donate this spacer to your project (since I kind of = got you into the flywheel decision)............Let me know and I
will hunt it up and get it to you quick as I can !!.............= .Thanks Tracy !!.............
 
Kelly Troyer
"DYKE DELTA JD2" (Eventually)
"13B ROTARY"_ Engine
"RWS"_RD1C/EC2/EM2
"MISTRAL"_Backplate/Oil = Manifold
"TURBONETICS"_TO4E50 Turbo

From: Tracy <rwstracy@= gmail.com>
To: Rotary= motors in aircraft <flyrotary@lancaironline.net>
Sent: Tuesday, July 19, 2011 6:09 PM
<= B>Subject: [FlyRotary] Re: Ok = Here are the important flywheel measurements

Are you guys sure you can't put a spacer between counterweight and fly= wheel?  Remember you can delete the large washer on the flywheel side = of the RD-1x damper to help move it back.   Also be aware that the nos= e of the damper spline can be machined off to decrease the needed room betw= een flywheel and adapter plate.

Don't overcomplicate this thing!

Tracy

Sent from my iPad

On Jul 19, 2011, at 5:52 PM, David Leonard <wdleonard@gmail.com> wrote:

Yea, that is a bummer, but I was not very hopeful.  So we can wel= d an additional ring gear onto the face of the other, or machine our e= xisting starters and/or flex plates.  I will probably do the latt= er.  Won't be that big of a deal I hope.  Thanks for being the pa= rts consultant.  At least now you have a spare start to use should you= ever need one.=20

David

On Tue, Jul 19, 2011 at 2:06 PM, Kell= y Troyer <keltro@att.net> wrote:
Dave,
 
   Turbo starter is here..........Priliminary quick an= d dirty measurements are 1.875 starter flange
to far end of unactivated starter (bendix) gear) which is 0.121 = more than your 1.754 number
and the same for all practical purposes considering probabl= e slight errors.............I do not have
1988 manual trans starter at the moment but will be at my hangar= tomorrow and will pick it up
to bring back with me for an in depth exam for any differences b= etween them............If there is
a difference I would think it would be in the starter gear as 19= 86-91 NA manual trans starter  
was used on a slightly smaller flywhee= l although it has worked well on the larger auto trans
flexplate..........."Sigh".........Such is experime= ntal aviation and so much for "AS"umptions....<:)
 
Kelly Troyer
"DYKE DELTA JD2" (Eventually)
"13B ROTARY"_ Engine
"RWS"_RD1C/EC2/EM2
"MISTRAL"_Backplate/Oil = Manifold
"TURBONETICS"_TO4E50 Turbo

From: David Leonard <wdleonard@gmail.com>
To: Rotary motors = in aircraft <flyrotary@lancaironline.net<= /A>>
Sent: Monday, July 18, 2011 11:28 P= M=20

Subje= ct: [FlyRotary] Re: Ok Here are the important flywheel measureme= nts

Hi Kelly,=20
I already took Tracys plate into account. (I measured it at .520 in). =  So it was 1.234 plus the .520 for the plate.  For ease, I measur= ed when the solenoid was NOT activated.  Crossing fingers, but ready t= o mill the plate and starter.... eh, I mean, hire someone to do it :-)

David

On Mon, Jul 18, 2011 at 9:14 PM, Kelly Troyer <keltro@att.net> wrote:
Dave,
 
   So adding the RD1X mount plate thickness 0.500 (1/2= inch) we have a measurement of approx 2.254 inch...........Tracy
calls for a 1986 NA (86 to 91 are the same) manual transmis= sion starter.............I do not know exactly what difference&nb= sp;the
turbo starter has except the turbo flywheel and automatic = flex-plate are slightly larger in diameter a= nd have more ring gear
teeth than the 86-91 NA manual flywheel................Ther= e was no turbo engine offered until 1987.........= ....I should have the
turbo starter in a few days so we can decide if it will be about= 0.375 in longer from mounting flange to end of the starter
gear teeth when activated by the solenoid..........= ....Cross your fingers !!............<:) 
 
 
Kelly Troyer
"DYKE DELTA JD2"= (Eventually)
"13B ROTARY"_ Engine
"RWS"_RD1C/EC2/EM2
"MISTRAL"_<= SPAN>Backplate/Oil Manifold
"TURBONETICS"_TO4E50 Turbo

From: David Leonard <wdleonard@gmail.com>
To: Rotary motors = in aircraft <flyrotary@lancaironline.net<= /A>>
Sent: Monday, July 18, 2011 9:34 PM=
Subject: [FlyRotary] Re= : Ok Here are the important flywheel measurements
Kelly, here is the starter measurement. This is the starter that Tracy= recommends, I forget which one that is.  From the engine side of the = mounting flange, to the far end of the tear tooth, I measure 1.754 - give o= r take.=20

-- 
David Leonard

Turbo Rotary RV-6 N4VY= ht= tp://N4VY.RotaryRoster.net
http://RotaryRoster.net

On Mon, Jul 18, 2011 at 6:16 PM, Kelly Troyer <keltro@att.net> wrote:
Dave,
   While they are at it have them turn the pressure pl= ate surface down to the pressure plate mounting
level so all of the rubber osolator is on a flat su= rface without a 0.018 step at the outer edge.......Or
you could put a washer under the drive plate (like the top washe= r)............But this would put the drive
plate further forward on the input shaft splines the thickness o= f the washer..........I do not khow if this
would pose a problem or not...........
 
Kelly Troyer
"DYKE DELTA JD2"= (Eventually)
"13B ROTARY"_ Engine
"RWS"_RD1C/EC2/EM2
"MISTRAL"_<= SPAN>Backplate/Oil Manifold
"TURBONETICS"_TO4E50 Turbo

From: David Leonard <wdleonard@gmail.com>
To: Rotary motors = in aircraft <flyrotary@lancaironline.net<= /A>>
Sent: Monday, July 18, 2011 7:55 PM=
Subject: [FlyRotary] Re= : Ok Here are the important flywheel measurements
Well,  NOW you tell me...  :-)   Yea, that was goi= ng to be an issues reguardless of which solution we chose.&nbs= p; I think I will bring mine to a machine shop and let them figure it out&n= bsp; :-)
 
--
David Leonard

Turbo Rotary RV-6 N4VY
http://= N4VY.RotaryRoster.net
http://RotaryRoster.net


On Mon, Jul 18, 2011 at 4:49 PM, Kelly Troyer <keltro@att.net> wrote:
Dave,
 
   Forgot to add that there are 3 clutch pressure plat= e locating dowels in the flywheel.........You
will have to knock these out with a punch as their position will= not let you properly center the
RD1X drive plate and will not let the drive plate "Float" proper= ly..............I have not come up
with a method yet to center the drive plate with the absolute ac= curacy needed for drilling the
flywheel for the drive plate attach bolts...........Maybe some o= f the group with more machinists
skills than I can make a recommendation !!.....= .............Also the rear of the attach bolt holes
will need to be spotfaced = to provide a flat surface for the bolt head or nut and washer  from
what I have observed on the backside of my flywheel.= .......................<:)  
 
Kelly Troyer
"DYKE DELTA JD2" (Eventually)
"13B ROTARY"_ Engine
"RWS"_R= D1C/EC2/EM2
"MISTRAL"_Backplate/O= il Manifold
"TURBONETICS"_TO4E50 Turbo

From: Kelly Troyer <keltro@att.net>
To: Rotary motors in aircraft <flyrotary@lancaironline.net>
Sent: Monday, July 18, 2011 6:29 PM
Subject: [FlyRotary] Ok Here are the important flywheel measurements
Dave,
   The link attached shows the proli= te version (9.8 lbs) on the left in the photo.........= ....Do you have your starter flange
to gear measurement handy as my RD1X starter (not the = turbo model) is 55 miles away at the moment........... = ;
 
 
Kelly Troyer
"DYKE DELTA JD2" (Eventually)
"13B ROTARY"_ Engine
"RWS"_R= D1C/EC2/EM2
"MISTRAL"_Backplate/O= il Manifold
"TURBONETICS"_TO4E50 Turbo

From: David Leonard <wdleonard@gmail.com>
To: Rotary motors = in aircraft <flyrotary@lancaironline.net<= /A>>
Sent: Monday, July 18, 2011 6:18 PM=
Subject: [FlyRotary] Re= : Ok Here are the important flywheel= measurements

OK Kelly,
 
Thanks to all your hard work and research, I have ordered up the Prolite 9.8 lb version of this.  Dec= ided that I was done with the flex plates.  Thanks for locating a grea= t price.  I am a little nervous that the picture does not look right, = but I guess I can always return it.
Like you, I figure we will solve the starter issue one way or another.=
 
--
David Leonard

Turbo Rotary RV-6 N4VY
http://N4VY.RotaryRoster.net
http://RotaryRoster.net


On Sat, Jul 16, 2011 at 2:21 PM, Kelly Troyer <keltro@att.net> wrote:
Dave and All,
 
          Ok Dave the "ACT" "Streetli= te" 13.8 lb flywheel was just delivered and I am in pr= ocess of taking
your measurements to see where we stand................This flyw= heel is a thing of beauty (to a RotorHead)
and my RD1C drive plate will bolt to it with no problem (through= drill and spotface the rear of the = flywheel
because it has a slight taper in that area).............I just h= ave to verify just where the RD1C drive splines
will be positioned (fore and aft) on the input shaft compared to= the RX7 flexplate.............The c= lutch plate
friction area is slightly raised (about 0.065) above the clutch = mount area and I would probably take it
down tto the clutch level= (probably not necessary but would reduce weight slightly.............I hav= e a 93-95
Turbo starter on the way (should take care of starter mesh probl= em)..............If you are interested I can
guide you to another 93-95 starter (used $49.00 with/shipping) i= f it is still for sale.............
        One other thing at th= is time..............The lighter 9.8 lb version may be usable but it is lis= ted as 116
ring gear teeth and I have not found out what its diameter is an= d what starter would be used with it......
        I suspect it may be t= he diameter of the NA 13B flywheels and may use the 86-91 NA manual tr= ans
starter............You need to talk to the manufacturer.........= .They are in Lancaster, Calif............The 9.8 lb
version is a little more expensive due to more extensive machine= work to reduce weight.............See the
link below............The link to THMotorsport= s has the best price I have found on the 9.8 lb flywhe= el......The
photo on their page is not the Rotary 9.8 lb version...........&= nbsp;
 
 
 
 
Kelly Troyer
"DYKE DELTA JD2" (Eventually)
"13B ROTARY"_ Engine
"RWS"_R= D1C/EC2/EM2
"MISTRAL"_Backplate/O= il Manifold
"TURBONETICS"_TO4E50 Turbo

From: Kelly Troyer <keltro@att.net>
To: Rotary motors in aircraft <flyrotary@lancaironline.net>
Sent: Friday, July 15, 2011 12:34 PM
Subject: [FlyRotary] Re: O= k Here are the important flywheel measurements

Dave and All,
 
         Sounds encourageing...............Replacing the sta= rter with turbo model would seem to be
least expensive and safer than adding additional ring gear + wel= ding..............I also echo what
Bill and Bobby have said concerning the Al Wick fix and getting = Tracy's thoughts about cause
of problem and perhaps need for periodic inspection and/or rubbe= r isolator replacement........ 
 
Kelly Troyer
"DYKE DELTA JD2" (Eventually)
"13B ROTARY"_ Engine
"RWS"_R= D1C/EC2/EM2
"MISTRAL"_Backplate/O= il Manifold
"TURBONETICS"_TO4E50 Turbo

From: David Leonard <wdleonard@gmail.com>
To: Rotary motors = in aircraft <flyrotary@lancaironline.net<= /A>>
Sent: Thursday, July 14, 2011 11:41= PM
Subject: [FlyRotary]= Ok Here are the important flywheel = measurements

I finally got to the hangar and measured out my S5 turbo flywheel and = the remains of my S5 flexplate. = ; The results are very encouraging, even as good as the possibly could be t= o make the swap, but I only had ten min at the hangar before I had to leave= to pick up my daughter from daycare, so they are one try and slightly slop= py... I make no guarantees.  The height measurements of the flex plate= were particularly suspect because, well, mine is all warped and broken.
Ring Gear Diameter - Perfect fit.  As we suspected, same s= ize, same tooth spacing.

Ring Gear Fore-Aft Placement - As me= asured from the underside of the big nut. (for all further reference, aft m= eans aft in the CAR).  The flex plate puts the aft side of the ring ge= ar 1.290 inches from the front of the big nut. The flywheel puts it 0.913.&= nbsp; So the flex plate puts the ring gear (appx) 0.377 in. further aft. = This is actually fortuitous because it just so happens that the ring gear = thickness is .365 ...    So all we have to do to fix the dis= crepancy is weld and extra ring gears onto to the flywheel ring gear and th= ere will be teeth that the starter can reach:(bottom of the page.. the cost= $80)
http://mazdatrix.com/flywheel.htm
It may also be po= ssible to fix the discrepancy by changing the starter... will look into tha= t.

Damper Plate Placement - On the flywheel, the mounting sur= face is proud (or aft) of the ring gear.  On the flex plate, the mount= ing surface is recessed (or forward) from the ring gear. A
nd it all pretty much works out.  That position on t= he flywheel will vary somewhat depending on which flywheel you have and how= much wear you have on the clutch slip surface. But on my (I assume well-wo= rn) flywheel the placement was 0.965 while the flex plate was 0.950.  = Pretty damn close and given measurement error it might me meant to be right= on.  Or, any difference could be made up by trimming down the spline = on the damper plate or removing or adding spacers between the two.

S= o in my mind, a flywheel is the way to go.  Stout, easy to get, pick y= our weight, only mods seem to be drilling the mounting holes and welding on= a second gear ring.

--
David Leonard

<= /DIV>





--
David Leonard

Turbo Rot= ary RV-6 N4VY
http://N4VY.RotaryRoster.net
http://RotaryRoster.net
<= /DIV>




--0-669242241-1311273297=:16142--