X-Virus-Scanned: clean according to Sophos on Logan.com Return-Path: Received: from nm16-vm0.access.bullet.mail.sp2.yahoo.com ([98.139.44.166] verified) by logan.com (CommuniGate Pro SMTP 5.4.0) with SMTP id 5057290 for flyrotary@lancaironline.net; Tue, 19 Jul 2011 19:43:08 -0400 Received-SPF: none receiver=logan.com; client-ip=98.139.44.166; envelope-from=keltro@att.net Received: from [98.139.44.105] by nm16.access.bullet.mail.sp2.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 19 Jul 2011 23:42:33 -0000 Received: from [98.139.44.82] by tm10.access.bullet.mail.sp2.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 19 Jul 2011 23:42:33 -0000 Received: from [127.0.0.1] by omp1019.access.mail.sp2.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 19 Jul 2011 23:42:33 -0000 X-Yahoo-Newman-Property: ymail-3 X-Yahoo-Newman-Id: 9819.30239.bm@omp1019.access.mail.sp2.yahoo.com Received: (qmail 28316 invoked by uid 60001); 19 Jul 2011 23:42:32 -0000 DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=att.net; s=s1024; t=1311118952; bh=8Ic0WA4/bETzSUcBEIt8fvpv70oB3PZ+ew9ihpdDE7M=; h=X-YMail-OSG:Received:X-Mailer:References:Message-ID:Date:From:Reply-To:Subject:To:In-Reply-To:MIME-Version:Content-Type; b=YNXokm7KBKArbYopSNDYhCDUJ8H6QiQCeyhWtEOqvLPix2CcSQroE3pTDXwqrUuVNOCzBFoB3yK9WtFE8zpJOXiWraXHhUh+ZCNk4DqhDEEiXVaDdi9IPD4q0qTUNOfsU678xszCxU1qCHvefIgYeIHQpXKxxLc0ICxd4g3LT6U= DomainKey-Signature:a=rsa-sha1; q=dns; c=nofws; s=s1024; d=att.net; h=X-YMail-OSG:Received:X-Mailer:References:Message-ID:Date:From:Reply-To:Subject:To:In-Reply-To:MIME-Version:Content-Type; b=0yZLHr7zmSpCBVfZ/7GQj6+GRZuorhdlWVSNcKicBYE13puYl5qi3AYjx6Hmrg2V9T2/z0woGMWmi74VRPiTHk+4QE0BtG6cuGKr+FAcjw6MZl97RGpmdqhpM8x2I9fr/gCYNYqi0AxwOJG359K4dBqDtveaso3Hzo6LeLHF2KA=; X-YMail-OSG: e7ifyI0VM1mU5nYPNoeZzJLwGfc1J.4uOF75S7RL_yC5mEC nJZeEfRWEfDzG.lPMLJu3m3zb3Y6VcqeNxgbN9YGHXRuw3g6n0IDTQ96JZ0I OOzjL0Tx39HkSiR_EuBDw2yR92jzbzni9VRbTvDKNzKE2qt8l8o0ah9mgI.J .SbLuEXh96_h3mHga7CPN0mutAWmq60oVY7rbCOzWUrISxPwVvvZwKZ_Klcf ov.Vjh_AODe5_XN6x4s2wbrEFWv6eOgisvKVjyXWqk4RYwhCGhgTxg6r1.Z4 mDuLeBSZwVLc.zMGji.7mJdxW1zqWMQzKeRjAtNawWdyg7m4vKpbF7_PdIQb zNIlCki3o7a1jhTSnfSJPNS_.dCMrQUzJgPcwRHcsRbDMPOnRHoiQjEGCUKK LG8hB4tW4eSY_5Ro4pJhTBrLbeAhyPwfDxjjE.7G6XntOxTBH0vYPu0W5pJB CYn2.KeD8NYLORP.bqpfCWWOzsRWSX0ZPBDU2hnVnIPLZXYbSg00o13Cs0Au IfQtEVzN3abOt4zcglAUqhhFtJSx_k7oNTF1eTv.Is0cNDSrmNxIXtGnTGVF 5f61HKIvPB12jc.tZoBFdpK.ML3Nce05f2t51qgqNGD2igaKQKiN1T1VMAZM f_LynKroNTsc6N6.LEC9ol3yMD6mNgcXTTczajnHoS6YZwI7SAY8ha5YQgv5 EHjJDw0eyYrY- Received: from [208.114.39.18] by web83913.mail.sp1.yahoo.com via HTTP; Tue, 19 Jul 2011 16:42:32 PDT X-Mailer: YahooMailWebService/0.8.112.307740 References: Message-ID: <1311118952.12451.YahooMailNeo@web83913.mail.sp1.yahoo.com> Date: Tue, 19 Jul 2011 16:42:32 -0700 (PDT) From: Kelly Troyer Reply-To: Kelly Troyer Subject: Re: Ok Here are the important flywheel measurements To: Rotary motors in aircraft In-Reply-To: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="0-1697951034-1311118952=:12451" --0-1697951034-1311118952=:12451 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Dave and Tracy,=0A=A0=0A=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0 That reminds me ...........I had= a 0.500 spacer machined to go between the counterweight and the flex-plate= for my first=0Aversion of an engine mount which used a 0.500 plate between= the engine and redrive..............Since I obtained the "Mistral"=0Aback-= plate using a Lycoming=A0Dynafocal mount ring I no longer need that spacer.= ............With very little extra machine work=0Ait could be thinned down = to the approx 0.375 Dave needs to match his flywheel ring gear to the start= er.............Dave I would=0Abe happy to donate this spacer to your projec= t (since I kind of got you into the flywheel decision)............Let me kn= ow and I=0Awill hunt it up and get it to you quick as I can !!.............= .Thanks Tracy !!.............=0A=0AKelly Troyer=0A"DYKE DELTA JD2" (Eventua= lly)=0A"13B ROTARY"_ Engine=0A"RWS"_RD1C/EC2/EM2=0A"MISTRAL"_Backplate/Oil = Manifold=0A"TURBONETICS"_TO4E50 Turbo=0A=0AFrom: Tracy = =0ATo: Rotary motors in aircraft =0ASent: Tues= day, July 19, 2011 6:09 PM=0ASubject: [FlyRotary] Re: Ok Here are the impor= tant flywheel measurements=0A=0A=0AAre you guys sure you can't put a spacer= between counterweight and flywheel? =A0Remember you can delete the large w= asher on the flywheel side of the RD-1x damper to help move it back. =A0 Al= so be aware that the nose of the damper spline can be machined off to decre= ase the needed room between flywheel and adapter plate.=0A=0ADon't overcomp= licate this thing!=0A=0ATracy=0A=0ASent from my iPad=0A=0AOn Jul 19, 2011, = at 5:52 PM, David Leonard wrote:=0A=0A=0AYea, that is= a bummer, but I was not very hopeful. =A0So we can weld an additional ring= gear onto the face of the other, or machine our=A0existing=A0starters and/= or flex plates. =A0I will probably do the latter. =A0Won't be that big of a= deal I hope. =A0Thanks for being the parts consultant. =A0At least now you= have a spare start to use should you ever need one. =0A>=0A>=0A>David=0A>= =0A>=0A>On Tue, Jul 19, 2011 at 2:06 PM, Kelly Troyer wrot= e:=0A>=0A>Dave,=0A>>=A0=0A>>=A0=A0 Turbo starter is here..........Prilimina= ry quick and dirty measurements are 1.875 starter flange =0A>>to far end of= unactivated starter (bendix) gear) which is 0.121 more than your 1.754 num= ber=0A>>and the same for all practical purposes=A0considering probable slig= ht errors.............I do not have=0A>>1988 manual trans starter at the mo= ment but will be at my hangar tomorrow and will pick it up=0A>>to bring bac= k with me for an in depth exam for any differences between them............= If there is=0A>>a difference I would think it would be in the starter gear = as 1986-91 NA manual trans starter=A0=A0=0A>>was used on a slightly smaller= flywheel although it has worked well on the larger auto trans=0A>>flexplat= e..........."Sigh".........Such is experimental aviation and so much for "A= S"umptions....<:)=0A>>=0A>>=0A>>Kelly Troyer=0A>>"DYKE DELTA JD2" (Eventual= ly)=0A>>"13B ROTARY"_ Engine=0A>>"RWS"_RD1C/EC2/EM2=0A>>"MISTRAL"_Backplate= /Oil Manifold=0A>>"TURBONETICS"_TO4E50 Turbo=0A>>=0A>>=0A>>From: David Leon= ard =0A>>To: Rotary motors in aircraft =0A>>Sent: Monday, July 18, 2011 11:28 PM =0A>>=0A>>Subject: = [FlyRotary] Re: Ok Here are the important flywheel measurements=0A>>=0A>>= =0A>>=0A>>Hi Kelly, =0A>>I already took Tracys plate into account. (I measu= red it at .520 in). =A0So it was 1.234 plus the .520 for the plate. =A0For = ease, I measured when the solenoid was NOT activated. =A0Crossing fingers, = but ready to mill the plate and starter.... eh, I mean, hire someone to do = it :-)=0A>>=0A>>=0A>>David=0A>>=0A>>=0A>>On Mon, Jul 18, 2011 at 9:14 PM, K= elly Troyer wrote:=0A>>=0A>>Dave,=0A>>>=A0=0A>>>=A0=A0 So = adding the RD1X mount plate thickness 0.500 (1/2 inch)=A0we have a measurem= ent of approx 2.254 inch...........Tracy=0A>>>calls for a 1986 NA=A0(86 to = 91 are the same) manual transmission starter.............I do=A0not know ex= actly what=A0difference=A0the =0A>>>turbo starter has except the turbo flyw= heel and automatic flex-plate are slightly larger in diameter and have more= ring gear =0A>>>teeth=A0than the 86-91 NA manual flywheel................T= here was no turbo engine offered until 1987.............I should have the= =0A>>>turbo starter in a few days so we can decide if it will be about 0.37= 5 in longer=A0from mounting=A0flange to end of the starter =0A>>>gear teeth= when activated by the solenoid..............Cross your fingers !!.........= ...<:)=A0=0A>>>=A0=0A>>>=0A>>>Kelly Troyer=0A>>>"DYKE DELTA JD2" (Eventuall= y)=0A>>>"13B ROTARY"_ Engine=0A>>>"RWS"_RD1C/EC2/EM2=0A>>>"MISTRAL"_Backpla= te/Oil Manifold=0A>>>"TURBONETICS"_TO4E50 Turbo=0A>>>=0A>>>=0A>>>From: Davi= d Leonard =0A>>>To: Rotary motors in aircraft =0A>>>Sent: Monday, July 18, 2011 9:34 PM=0A>>>Subject= : [FlyRotary] Re: Ok Here are the important flywheel measurements=0A>>>=0A>= >>=0A>>>Kelly, here is the starter measurement. This is the starter that Tr= acy recommends, I forget which one that is. =A0From the engine side of the = mounting flange, to the far end of the tear tooth, I measure 1.754 - give o= r take. =0A>>>=0A>>>=0A>>>--=A0=0A>>>David Leonard=0A>>>=0A>>>Turbo Rotary = RV-6 N4VY=0A>>>http://N4VY.RotaryRoster.net=0A>>>http://RotaryRoster.net=0A= >>>=0A>>>=0A>>>On Mon, Jul 18, 2011 at 6:16 PM, Kelly Troyer wrote:=0A>>>=0A>>>Dave,=0A>>>>=A0=A0 While they are at it have them turn= the pressure plate surface down to the pressure plate mounting=0A>>>>level= so all of the rubber osolator is on a flat surface without a 0.018 step at= the outer edge.......Or=0A>>>>you could put a washer under the drive plate= (like the top washer)............But this would put the drive=0A>>>>plate = further forward on the input shaft splines the thickness of the washer.....= .....I do not khow if this=0A>>>>would pose a problem or not...........=0A>= >>>=0A>>>>Kelly Troyer=0A>>>>"DYKE DELTA JD2" (Eventually)=0A>>>>"13B ROTAR= Y"_ Engine=0A>>>>"RWS"_RD1C/EC2/EM2=0A>>>>"MISTRAL"_Backplate/Oil Manifold= =0A>>>>"TURBONETICS"_TO4E50 Turbo=0A>>>>=0A>>>>=0A>>>>From: David Leonard <= wdleonard@gmail.com>=0A>>>>To: Rotary motors in aircraft =0A>>>>Sent: Monday, July 18, 2011 7:55 PM=0A>>>>Subject: [FlyRo= tary] Re: Ok Here are the important flywheel measurements=0A>>>>=0A>>>>=0A>= >>>Well,=A0 NOW you tell me...=A0 :-)=A0=A0 Yea, that was going to be an is= sues reguardless of which solution we chose.=A0 I think I will bring mine t= o a machine shop and let them figure it out=A0 :-)=0A>>>>=0A>>>>-- =0A>>>>D= avid Leonard=0A>>>>=0A>>>>Turbo Rotary RV-6 N4VY=0A>>>>http://N4VY.RotaryRo= ster.net=0A>>>>http://RotaryRoster.net=0A>>>>=0A>>>>=0A>>>>=0A>>>>On Mon, J= ul 18, 2011 at 4:49 PM, Kelly Troyer wrote:=0A>>>>=0A>>>>D= ave,=0A>>>>>=A0=0A>>>>>=A0=A0 Forgot to add that there are 3 clutch pressur= e plate locating dowels in the flywheel.........You=0A>>>>>will have to kno= ck these out with a punch as their position will not let you properly cente= r the =0A>>>>>RD1X drive plate and will not let the drive plate "Float" pro= perly..............I have not come up =0A>>>>>with a method yet to center t= he drive plate with the absolute accuracy needed=A0for drilling the=0A>>>>>= flywheel for the drive plate attach bolts...........Maybe some of the group= with more=A0machinists=0A>>>>>skills than I can make a recommendation=A0!!= ..................Also the rear of the attach bolt holes=0A>>>>>will need t= o be spotfaced to provide a flat surface for the bolt head or nut and washe= r=A0 from=0A>>>>>what I have observed on the backside of my flywheel.......= .................<:)=A0=A0=0A>>>>>=0A>>>>>Kelly Troyer=0A>>>>>"DYKE DELTA J= D2" (Eventually)=0A>>>>>"13B ROTARY"_ Engine=0A>>>>>"RWS"_RD1C/EC2/EM2=0A>>= >>>"MISTRAL"_Backplate/Oil Manifold=0A>>>>>"TURBONETICS"_TO4E50 Turbo=0A>>>= >>=0A>>>>>=0A>>>>>From: Kelly Troyer =0A>>>>>To: Rotary mot= ors in aircraft =0A>>>>>Sent: Monday, July 18,= 2011 6:29 PM=0A>>>>>Subject: [FlyRotary] Ok Here are the important flywhee= l measurements=0A>>>>>=0A>>>>>=0A>>>>>Dave,=0A>>>>>=A0=A0 The link attached= shows the prolite version (9.8 lbs) on the left in the photo.............D= o you have=A0your starter flange=0A>>>>>to gear measurement=A0handy as my R= D1X starter=A0(not the turbo model)=A0is 55 miles away at the moment.......= ....=A0=0A>>>>>=A0http://www2.advancedclutch.com/products/xact_flywheels.as= px=0A>>>>>=0A>>>>>Kelly Troyer=0A>>>>>"DYKE DELTA JD2" (Eventually)=0A>>>>>= "13B ROTARY"_ Engine=0A>>>>>"RWS"_RD1C/EC2/EM2=0A>>>>>"MISTRAL"_Backplate/O= il Manifold=0A>>>>>"TURBONETICS"_TO4E50 Turbo=0A>>>>>=0A>>>>>=0A>>>>>From: = David Leonard =0A>>>>>To: Rotary motors in aircraft =0A>>>>>Sent: Monday, July 18, 2011 6:18 PM=0A>>= >>>Subject: [FlyRotary] Re: Ok Here are the important flywheel measurements= =0A>>>>>=0A>>>>>=0A>>>>>OK Kelly,=0A>>>>>=0A>>>>>Thanks to all your hard wo= rk and research, I have ordered up the Prolite 9.8 lb version of this.=A0 D= ecided that I was done with the flex plates.=A0 Thanks for locating a great= price.=A0 I am a little nervous that the picture does not look right, but = I guess I can always return it.=0A>>>>>Like you, I figure we will solve the= starter issue one way or another.=0A>>>>>=0A>>>>>-- =0A>>>>>David Leonard= =0A>>>>>=0A>>>>>Turbo Rotary RV-6 N4VY=0A>>>>>http://N4VY.RotaryRoster.net= =0A>>>>>http://RotaryRoster.net=0A>>>>>=0A>>>>>=0A>>>>>=0A>>>>>On Sat, Jul = 16, 2011 at 2:21 PM, Kelly Troyer wrote:=0A>>>>>=0A>>>>>Da= ve and All,=0A>>>>>>=A0=0A>>>>>>=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0 Ok Dave the "AC= T" "Streetlite" 13.8 lb flywheel was just delivered and I am in process of = taking=0A>>>>>>your measurements to see where we stand................This = flywheel is a thing of beauty (to a RotorHead)=0A>>>>>>and my RD1C drive pl= ate will bolt to it with no problem (through drill and spotface the rear of= the flywheel=0A>>>>>>because it has a slight taper in that area)..........= ...I just have to verify just where the RD1C drive splines =0A>>>>>>will be= positioned (fore and aft) on the input shaft compared to the RX7 flexplate= .............The clutch plate=0A>>>>>>friction area is slightly raised (abo= ut 0.065) above the clutch mount area and I would probably take it=0A>>>>>>= down tto the clutch level (probably not necessary but would reduce weight s= lightly.............I have a 93-95=0A>>>>>>Turbo starter on the way (should= take care of starter mesh problem)..............If you are interested I ca= n=0A>>>>>>guide you to another 93-95 starter (used $49.00 with/shipping) if= it is still for sale.............=0A>>>>>>=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0 One other = thing at this time..............The lighter 9.8 lb version may be usable bu= t it is listed as 116=0A>>>>>>ring gear teeth and I have not found out what= its diameter is and what starter would be used with it......=0A>>>>>>=A0= =A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0 I suspect it may be the diameter of the NA 13B flywheels= and may use the 86-91=A0NA manual trans=0A>>>>>>starter............You nee= d to talk to the manufacturer..........They are in Lancaster, Calif........= ....The 9.8 lb=0A>>>>>>version is a little more expensive due to more exten= sive machine work to reduce weight.............See the=0A>>>>>>link below..= ..........The link to THMotorsports has the best price I have found on the = 9.8 lb flywheel......The=0A>>>>>>photo on their page is not the Rotary 9.8 = lb version...........=A0=0A>>>>>>=A0=0A>>>>>>http://www2.advancedclutch.com= /products/xact_flywheels.aspx=0A>>>>>>=A0=0A>>>>>>=A0=0A>>>>>>http://thmoto= rsports.com/act/act_flywheel_prolite/600140/i-47718.aspx=0A>>>>>>=0A>>>>>>K= elly Troyer=0A>>>>>>"DYKE DELTA JD2" (Eventually)=0A>>>>>>"13B ROTARY"_ Eng= ine=0A>>>>>>"RWS"_RD1C/EC2/EM2=0A>>>>>>"MISTRAL"_Backplate/Oil Manifold=0A>= >>>>>"TURBONETICS"_TO4E50 Turbo=0A>>>>>>=0A>>>>>>=0A>>>>>>From: Kelly Troye= r =0A>>>>>>To: Rotary motors in aircraft =0A>>>>>>Sent: Friday, July 15, 2011 12:34 PM=0A>>>>>>Subject: [= FlyRotary] Re: Ok Here are the important flywheel measurements=0A>>>>>>=0A>= >>>>>=0A>>>>>>Dave and All,=0A>>>>>>=A0=0A>>>>>>=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0 So= unds encourageing...............Replacing the starter with turbo model woul= d seem to be=0A>>>>>>least expensive and safer than adding additional ring = gear + welding..............I also echo what=0A>>>>>>Bill and Bobby have sa= id concerning the Al Wick fix and getting Tracy's thoughts about cause=0A>>= >>>>of problem and perhaps need for periodic inspection and/or rubber=A0iso= lator replacement........=A0=0A>>>>>>=0A>>>>>>Kelly Troyer=0A>>>>>>"DYKE DE= LTA JD2" (Eventually)=0A>>>>>>"13B ROTARY"_ Engine=0A>>>>>>"RWS"_RD1C/EC2/E= M2=0A>>>>>>"MISTRAL"_Backplate/Oil Manifold=0A>>>>>>"TURBONETICS"_TO4E50 Tu= rbo=0A>>>>>>=0A>>>>>>=0A>>>>>>From: David Leonard =0A>= >>>>>To: Rotary motors in aircraft =0A>>>>>>Se= nt: Thursday, July 14, 2011 11:41 PM=0A>>>>>>Subject: [FlyRotary] Ok Here a= re the important flywheel measurements=0A>>>>>>=0A>>>>>>=0A>>>>>>I finally = got to the hangar and measured out my S5 turbo flywheel and the remains of = my S5 flexplate.=A0 The results are very encouraging, even as good as the p= ossibly could be to make the swap, but I only had ten min at the hangar bef= ore I had to leave to pick up my daughter from daycare, so they are one try= and slightly sloppy... I make no guarantees.=A0 The height measurements of= the flex plate were particularly suspect because, well, mine is all warped= and broken.=0A>>>>>>=0A>>>>>>Ring Gear Diameter - Perfect fit.=A0 As we su= spected, same size, same tooth spacing.=0A>>>>>>=0A>>>>>>Ring Gear Fore-Aft= Placement - As measured from the underside of the big nut. (for all furthe= r reference, aft means aft in the CAR).=A0 The flex plate puts the aft side= of the ring gear 1.290 inches from the front of the big nut. The flywheel = puts it 0.913.=A0 So the flex plate puts the ring gear (appx) 0.377 in. fur= ther aft.=A0 This is actually fortuitous because it just so happens that th= e ring gear thickness is .365 ...=A0=A0=A0 So all we have to do to fix the = discrepancy is weld and extra ring gears onto to the flywheel ring gear and= there will be teeth that the starter can reach:(bottom of the page.. the c= ost $80)=0A>>>>>>http://mazdatrix.com/flywheel.htm=0A>>>>>>It may also be p= ossible to fix the discrepancy by changing the starter... will look into th= at.=0A>>>>>>=0A>>>>>>Damper Plate Placement - On the flywheel, the mounting= surface is proud (or aft) of the ring gear.=A0 On the flex plate, the moun= ting surface is recessed (or forward) from the ring gear. A=0A>>>>>>nd it a= ll pretty much works out.=A0 That position on the flywheel will vary somewh= at depending on which flywheel you have and how much wear you have on the c= lutch slip surface. But on my (I assume well-worn) flywheel the placement w= as 0.965 while the flex plate was 0.950.=A0 Pretty damn close and given mea= surement error it might me meant to be right on.=A0 Or, any difference coul= d be made up by trimming down the spline on the damper plate or removing or= adding spacers between the two.=0A>>>>>>=0A>>>>>>So in my mind, a flywheel= is the way to go.=A0 Stout, easy to get, pick your weight, only mods seem = to be drilling the mounting holes and welding on a second gear ring.=0A>>>>= >>=0A>>>>>>-- =0A>>>>>>David Leonard=0A>>>>>>=0A>>>>>>=0A>>=0A>>=0A>=0A>=0A= >-- =0A>David Leonard=0A>=0A>Turbo Rotary RV-6 N4VY=0A>http://N4VY.RotaryRo= ster.net=0A>http://RotaryRoster.net=0A> --0-1697951034-1311118952=:12451 Content-Type: text/html; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
Dave and Tracy,
 
   &n= bsp;   That reminds me ...........I had a 0.500 spacer machined t= o go between the counterweight and the flex-plate for my first
version of an engine= mount which used a 0.500 plate between the engine and redrive.............= .Since I obtained the "Mistral"
back-plate using a L= ycoming Dynafocal mount ring I no longer need that spacer.............= With very little extra machine work
it could be thinned = down to the approx 0.375 Dave needs to match his flywheel ring gear to the = starter.............Dave I would
be happy to donate t= his spacer to your project (since I kind of got you into the flywheel decis= ion)............Let me know and I
will hunt it up and = get it to you quick as I can !!..............Thanks Tracy !!.............
 
Kelly Troyer
"DYKE DELTA JD2" (Eventually)
"13B ROTARY"_ Engine
"RWS"_RD1C/EC2/EM2
"MISTRAL"_Backplate/Oil = Manifold
"TURBONETICS"_TO4E50 Turbo

From:= Tracy <rwstracy@gmail.com>
To: Rotary motors in aircraft <flyrotary@lancaironl= ine.net>
Sent: Tuesda= y, July 19, 2011 6:09 PM
Subject: [FlyRotary] Re: Ok Here are the important flywheel measurements
Are you guys sure you can't put a spacer between counterweight and fly= wheel?  Remember you can delete the large washer on the flywheel side = of the RD-1x damper to help move it back.   Also be aware that the nos= e of the damper spline can be machined off to decrease the needed room betw= een flywheel and adapter plate.

Don't overcomplicate this thing!

Tracy

Sent from my iPad

On Jul 19, 2011, at 5:52 PM, David Leonard <wdleonard@gmail.com> wrote:

Yea, that is a bummer, but I was not very hopeful.  So we can wel= d an additional ring gear onto the face of the other, or machine our e= xisting starters and/or flex plates.  I will probably do the latt= er.  Won't be that big of a deal I hope.  Thanks for being the pa= rts consultant.  At least now you have a spare start to use should you= ever need one.

David

On Tue, Jul 19, 2011 at 2:06 PM, Kell= y Troyer <keltro@att.net> wrote:
Dave,
 
   Turbo starter is here..........Priliminary quick an= d dirty measurements are 1.875 starter flange
to far end of unactivated starter (bendix) gear) which is 0.121 = more than your 1.754 number
and the same for all practical purposes considering probabl= e slight errors.............I do not have
1988 manual trans starter at the moment but will be at my hangar= tomorrow and will pick it up
to bring back with me for an in depth exam for any differences b= etween them............If there is
a difference I would think it would be in the starter gear as 19= 86-91 NA manual trans starter  
was used on a slightly smaller flywhee= l although it has worked well on the larger auto trans
flexplate..........."Sigh".........Such is experime= ntal aviation and so much for "AS"umptions....<:)
 
Kelly Troyer
"DYKE DELTA JD2" (Eventually)
"13B ROTARY"_ Engine
"RWS"_RD1C/EC2/EM2
"MISTRAL"_Backplate/Oil = Manifold
"TURBONETICS"_TO4E50 Turbo

From: David Leonard <wdleonard@gmail.com>
To: Rotary motors = in aircraft <flyrotary@lancaironline.net<= /A>>
Sent: Monday, July 18, 2011 11:28 P= M

Subje= ct: [FlyRotary] Re: Ok Here are the important flywheel measureme= nts

Hi Kelly,=20
I already took Tracys plate into account. (I measured it at .520 in). =  So it was 1.234 plus the .520 for the plate.  For ease, I measur= ed when the solenoid was NOT activated.  Crossing fingers, but ready t= o mill the plate and starter.... eh, I mean, hire someone to do it :-)

David

On Mon, Jul 18, 2011 at 9:14 PM, Kelly Troyer <keltro@att.net> wrote:
Dave,
 
   So adding the RD1X mount plate thickness 0.500 (1/2= inch) we have a measurement of approx 2.254 inch...........Tracy
calls for a 1986 NA (86 to 91 are the same) manual transmis= sion starter.............I do not know exactly what difference&nb= sp;the
turbo starter has except the turbo flywheel and automatic = flex-plate are slightly larger in diameter a= nd have more ring gear
teeth than the 86-91 NA manual flywheel................Ther= e was no turbo engine offered until 1987.........= ....I should have the
turbo starter in a few days so we can decide if it will be about= 0.375 in longer from mounting flange to end of the starter
gear teeth when activated by the solenoid..........= ....Cross your fingers !!............<:) 
 
 
Kelly Troyer
"DYKE DELTA JD2"= (Eventually)
"13B ROTARY"_ Engine
"RWS"_RD1C/EC2/EM2
"MISTRAL"_<= SPAN>Backplate/Oil Manifold
"TURBONETICS"_TO4E50 Turbo

From: David Leonard <wdleonard@gmail.com>
To: Rotary motors = in aircraft <flyrotary@lancaironline.net<= /A>>
Sent: Monday, July 18, 2011 9:34 PM=
Subject: [FlyRotary] Re= : Ok Here are the important flywheel measurements
Kelly, here is the starter measurement. This is the starter that Tracy= recommends, I forget which one that is.  From the engine side of the = mounting flange, to the far end of the tear tooth, I measure 1.754 - give o= r take.=20

-- 
David Leonard

Turbo Rotary RV-6 N4VY= ht= tp://N4VY.RotaryRoster.net
http://RotaryRoster.net

On Mon, Jul 18, 2011 at 6:16 PM, Kelly Troyer <keltro@att.net> wrote:
Dave,
   While they are at it have them turn the pressure pl= ate surface down to the pressure plate mounting
level so all of the rubber osolator is on a flat su= rface without a 0.018 step at the outer edge.......Or
you could put a washer under the drive plate (like the top washe= r)............But this would put the drive
plate further forward on the input shaft splines the thickness o= f the washer..........I do not khow if this
would pose a problem or not...........
 
Kelly Troyer
"DYKE DELTA JD2"= (Eventually)
"13B ROTARY"_ Engine
"RWS"_RD1C/EC2/EM2
"MISTRAL"_<= SPAN>Backplate/Oil Manifold
"TURBONETICS"_TO4E50 Turbo

From: David Leonard <wdleonard@gmail.com>
To: Rotary motors = in aircraft <flyrotary@lancaironline.net<= /A>>
Sent: Monday, July 18, 2011 7:55 PM=
Subject: [FlyRotary] Re= : Ok Here are the important flywheel measurements
Well,  NOW you tell me...  :-)   Yea, that was goi= ng to be an issues reguardless of which solution we chose.&nbs= p; I think I will bring mine to a machine shop and let them figure it out&n= bsp; :-)
 
--
David Leonard

Turbo Rotary RV-6 N4VY
http://= N4VY.RotaryRoster.net
http://RotaryRoster.net


On Mon, Jul 18, 2011 at 4:49 PM, Kelly Troyer <keltro@att.net> wrote:
Dave,
 
   Forgot to add that there are 3 clutch pressure plat= e locating dowels in the flywheel.........You
will have to knock these out with a punch as their position will= not let you properly center the
RD1X drive plate and will not let the drive plate "Float" proper= ly..............I have not come up
with a method yet to center the drive plate with the absolute ac= curacy needed for drilling the
flywheel for the drive plate attach bolts...........Maybe some o= f the group with more machinists
skills than I can make a recommendation !!.....= .............Also the rear of the attach bolt holes
will need to be spotfaced = to provide a flat surface for the bolt head or nut and washer  from
what I have observed on the backside of my flywheel.= .......................<:)  
 
Kelly Troyer
"DYKE DELTA JD2" (Eventually)
"13B ROTARY"_ Engine
"RWS"_R= D1C/EC2/EM2
"MISTRAL"_Backplate/O= il Manifold
"TURBONETICS"_TO4E50 Turbo

From: Kelly Troyer <keltro@att.net>
To: Rotary motors in aircraft <flyrotary@lancaironline.net>
Sent: Monday, July 18, 2011 6:29 PM
Subject: [FlyRotary] Ok Here are the important flywheel measurements
Dave,
   The link attached shows the proli= te version (9.8 lbs) on the left in the photo.........= ....Do you have your starter flange
to gear measurement handy as my RD1X starter (not the = turbo model) is 55 miles away at the moment........... = ;
 
 
Kelly Troyer
"DYKE DELTA JD2" (Eventually)
"13B ROTARY"_ Engine
"RWS"_R= D1C/EC2/EM2
"MISTRAL"_Backplate/O= il Manifold
"TURBONETICS"_TO4E50 Turbo

From: David Leonard <wdleonard@gmail.com>
To: Rotary motors = in aircraft <flyrotary@lancaironline.net<= /A>>
Sent: Monday, July 18, 2011 6:18 PM=
Subject: [FlyRotary] Re= : Ok Here are the important flywheel= measurements

OK Kelly,
 
Thanks to all your hard work and research, I have ordered up the Prolite 9.8 lb version of this.  Dec= ided that I was done with the flex plates.  Thanks for locating a grea= t price.  I am a little nervous that the picture does not look right, = but I guess I can always return it.
Like you, I figure we will solve the starter issue one way or another.=
 
--
David Leonard

Turbo Rotary RV-6 N4VY
http://N4VY.RotaryRoster.net
http://RotaryRoster.net


On Sat, Jul 16, 2011 at 2:21 PM, Kelly Troyer <keltro@att.net> wrote:
Dave and All,
 
          Ok Dave the "ACT" "Streetli= te" 13.8 lb flywheel was just delivered and I am in pr= ocess of taking
your measurements to see where we stand................This flyw= heel is a thing of beauty (to a RotorHead)
and my RD1C drive plate will bolt to it with no problem (through= drill and spotface the rear of the = flywheel
because it has a slight taper in that area).............I just h= ave to verify just where the RD1C drive splines
will be positioned (fore and aft) on the input shaft compared to= the RX7 flexplate.............The c= lutch plate
friction area is slightly raised (about 0.065) above the clutch = mount area and I would probably take it
down tto the clutch level= (probably not necessary but would reduce weight slightly.............I hav= e a 93-95
Turbo starter on the way (should take care of starter mesh probl= em)..............If you are interested I can
guide you to another 93-95 starter (used $49.00 with/shipping) i= f it is still for sale.............
        One other thing at th= is time..............The lighter 9.8 lb version may be usable but it is lis= ted as 116
ring gear teeth and I have not found out what its diameter is an= d what starter would be used with it......
        I suspect it may be t= he diameter of the NA 13B flywheels and may use the 86-91 NA manual tr= ans
starter............You need to talk to the manufacturer.........= .They are in Lancaster, Calif............The 9.8 lb
version is a little more expensive due to more extensive machine= work to reduce weight.............See the
link below............The link to THMotorsport= s has the best price I have found on the 9.8 lb flywhe= el......The
photo on their page is not the Rotary 9.8 lb version...........&= nbsp;
 
 
 
 
Kelly Troyer
"DYKE DELTA JD2" (Eventually)
"13B ROTARY"_ Engine
"RWS"_R= D1C/EC2/EM2
"MISTRAL"_Backplate/O= il Manifold
"TURBONETICS"_TO4E50 Turbo

From: Kelly Troyer <keltro@att.net>
To: Rotary motors in aircraft <flyrotary@lancaironline.net>
Sent: Friday, July 15, 2011 12:34 PM
Subject: [FlyRotary] Re: O= k Here are the important flywheel measurements

Dave and All,
 
         Sounds encourageing...............Replacing the sta= rter with turbo model would seem to be
least expensive and safer than adding additional ring gear + wel= ding..............I also echo what
Bill and Bobby have said concerning the Al Wick fix and getting = Tracy's thoughts about cause
of problem and perhaps need for periodic inspection and/or rubbe= r isolator replacement........ 
 
Kelly Troyer
"DYKE DELTA JD2" (Eventually)
"13B ROTARY"_ Engine
"RWS"_R= D1C/EC2/EM2
"MISTRAL"_Backplate/O= il Manifold
"TURBONETICS"_TO4E50 Turbo

From: David Leonard <wdleonard@gmail.com>
To: Rotary motors = in aircraft <flyrotary@lancaironline.net<= /A>>
Sent: Thursday, July 14, 2011 11:41= PM
Subject: [FlyRotary]= Ok Here are the important flywheel = measurements

I finally got to the hangar and measured out my S5 turbo flywheel and = the remains of my S5 flexplate. = ; The results are very encouraging, even as good as the possibly could be t= o make the swap, but I only had ten min at the hangar before I had to leave= to pick up my daughter from daycare, so they are one try and slightly slop= py... I make no guarantees.  The height measurements of the flex plate= were particularly suspect because, well, mine is all warped and broken.
Ring Gear Diameter - Perfect fit.  As we suspected, same s= ize, same tooth spacing.

Ring Gear Fore-Aft Placement - As me= asured from the underside of the big nut. (for all further reference, aft m= eans aft in the CAR).  The flex plate puts the aft side of the ring ge= ar 1.290 inches from the front of the big nut. The flywheel puts it 0.913.&= nbsp; So the flex plate puts the ring gear (appx) 0.377 in. further aft. = This is actually fortuitous because it just so happens that the ring gear = thickness is .365 ...    So all we have to do to fix the dis= crepancy is weld and extra ring gears onto to the flywheel ring gear and th= ere will be teeth that the starter can reach:(bottom of the page.. the cost= $80)
http://mazdatrix.com/flywheel.htm
It may also be po= ssible to fix the discrepancy by changing the starter... will look into tha= t.

Damper Plate Placement - On the flywheel, the mounting sur= face is proud (or aft) of the ring gear.  On the flex plate, the mount= ing surface is recessed (or forward) from the ring gear. A
nd it all pretty much works out.  That position on t= he flywheel will vary somewhat depending on which flywheel you have and how= much wear you have on the clutch slip surface. But on my (I assume well-wo= rn) flywheel the placement was 0.965 while the flex plate was 0.950.  = Pretty damn close and given measurement error it might me meant to be right= on.  Or, any difference could be made up by trimming down the spline = on the damper plate or removing or adding spacers between the two.

S= o in my mind, a flywheel is the way to go.  Stout, easy to get, pick y= our weight, only mods seem to be drilling the mounting holes and welding on= a second gear ring.

--
David Leonard

<= /DIV>





--
David Leonard

Turbo Rot= ary RV-6 N4VY
http://N4VY.RotaryRoster.net
http://RotaryRoster.net
<= /DIV>


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