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Tue, 19 Jul 2011 16:26:11 PDT X-Mailer: YahooMailWebService/0.8.112.307740 References: Message-ID: <1311117971.82959.YahooMailNeo@web83901.mail.sp1.yahoo.com> Date: Tue, 19 Jul 2011 16:26:11 -0700 (PDT) From: Kelly Troyer Reply-To: Kelly Troyer Subject: Re: Ok Here are the important flywheel measurements To: Rotary motors in aircraft In-Reply-To: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="0-1649670476-1311117971=:82959" --0-1649670476-1311117971=:82959 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Dave,=0A=A0=0A=A0=A0=A0 I figure now=A0that Mazda decided to vary the depth= s needed for the various flywheels by changing=0Athe dimensions (depth) of = the bell housing starter=A0mount point..........=A0(unfortunately).........= .........=0A=0AKelly Troyer=0A"DYKE DELTA JD2" (Eventually)=0A"13B ROTARY"_= Engine=0A"RWS"_RD1C/EC2/EM2=0A"MISTRAL"_Backplate/Oil Manifold=0A"TURBONET= ICS"_TO4E50 Turbo=0A=0AFrom: David Leonard =0ATo: Rota= ry motors in aircraft =0ASent: Tuesday, July 1= 9, 2011 4:52 PM=0ASubject: [FlyRotary] Re: Ok Here are the important flywhe= el measurements=0A=0A=0AYea, that is a bummer, but I was not very hopeful. = =A0So we can weld an additional ring gear onto the face of the other, or ma= chine our=A0existing=A0starters and/or flex plates. =A0I will probably do t= he latter. =A0Won't be that big of a deal I hope. =A0Thanks for being the p= arts consultant. =A0At least now you have a spare start to use should you e= ver need one. =0A=0ADavid=0A=0A=0AOn Tue, Jul 19, 2011 at 2:06 PM, Kelly Tr= oyer wrote:=0A=0ADave,=0A>=A0=0A>=A0=A0 Turbo starter is h= ere..........Priliminary quick and dirty measurements are 1.875 starter fla= nge =0A>to far end of unactivated starter (bendix) gear) which is 0.121 mor= e than your 1.754 number=0A>and the same for all practical purposes=A0consi= dering probable slight errors.............I do not have=0A>1988 manual tran= s starter at the moment but will be at my hangar tomorrow and will pick it = up=0A>to bring back with me for an in depth exam for any differences betwee= n them............If there is=0A>a difference I would think it would be in = the starter gear as 1986-91 NA manual trans starter=A0=A0=0A>was used on a = slightly smaller flywheel although it has worked well on the larger auto tr= ans=0A>flexplate..........."Sigh".........Such is experimental aviation and= so much for "AS"umptions....<:)=0A>=0A>=0A>Kelly Troyer=0A>"DYKE DELTA JD2= " (Eventually)=0A>"13B ROTARY"_ Engine=0A>"RWS"_RD1C/EC2/EM2=0A>"MISTRAL"_B= ackplate/Oil Manifold=0A>"TURBONETICS"_TO4E50 Turbo=0A>=0A>=0A>From: David = Leonard =0A>To: Rotary motors in aircraft =0A>Sent: Monday, July 18, 2011 11:28 PM =0A>=0A>Subject: = [FlyRotary] Re: Ok Here are the important flywheel measurements=0A>=0A>=0A>= =0A>Hi Kelly, =0A>I already took Tracys plate into account. (I measured it = at .520 in). =A0So it was 1.234 plus the .520 for the plate. =A0For ease, I= measured when the solenoid was NOT activated. =A0Crossing fingers, but rea= dy to mill the plate and starter.... eh, I mean, hire someone to do it :-)= =0A>=0A>=0A>David=0A>=0A>=0A>On Mon, Jul 18, 2011 at 9:14 PM, Kelly Troyer = wrote:=0A>=0A>Dave,=0A>>=A0=0A>>=A0=A0 So adding the RD1X = mount plate thickness 0.500 (1/2 inch)=A0we have a measurement of approx 2.= 254 inch...........Tracy=0A>>calls for a 1986 NA=A0(86 to 91 are the same) = manual transmission starter.............I do=A0not know exactly what=A0diff= erence=A0the =0A>>turbo starter has except the turbo flywheel and automatic= flex-plate are slightly larger in diameter and have more ring gear =0A>>te= eth=A0than the 86-91 NA manual flywheel................There was no turbo e= ngine offered until 1987.............I should have the=0A>>turbo starter in= a few days so we can decide if it will be about 0.375 in longer=A0from mou= nting=A0flange to end of the starter =0A>>gear teeth when activated by the = solenoid..............Cross your fingers !!............<:)=A0=0A>>=A0=0A>>= =0A>>Kelly Troyer=0A>>"DYKE DELTA JD2" (Eventually)=0A>>"13B ROTARY"_ Engin= e=0A>>"RWS"_RD1C/EC2/EM2=0A>>"MISTRAL"_Backplate/Oil Manifold=0A>>"TURBONET= ICS"_TO4E50 Turbo=0A>>=0A>>=0A>>From: David Leonard = =0A>>To: Rotary motors in aircraft =0A>>Sent: = Monday, July 18, 2011 9:34 PM=0A>>Subject: [FlyRotary] Re: Ok Here are the = important flywheel measurements=0A>>=0A>>=0A>>Kelly, here is the starter me= asurement. This is the starter that Tracy recommends, I forget which one th= at is. =A0From the engine side of the mounting flange, to the far end of th= e tear tooth, I measure 1.754 - give or take. =0A>>=0A>>=0A>>--=A0=0A>>Davi= d Leonard=0A>>=0A>>Turbo Rotary RV-6 N4VY=0A>>http://N4VY.RotaryRoster.net= =0A>>http://RotaryRoster.net=0A>>=0A>>=0A>>On Mon, Jul 18, 2011 at 6:16 PM,= Kelly Troyer wrote:=0A>>=0A>>Dave,=0A>>>=A0=A0 While they= are at it have them turn the pressure plate surface down to the pressure p= late mounting=0A>>>level so all of the rubber osolator is on a flat surface= without a 0.018 step at the outer edge.......Or=0A>>>you could put a washe= r under the drive plate (like the top washer)............But this would put= the drive=0A>>>plate further forward on the input shaft splines the thickn= ess of the washer..........I do not khow if this=0A>>>would pose a problem = or not...........=0A>>>=0A>>>Kelly Troyer=0A>>>"DYKE DELTA JD2" (Eventually= )=0A>>>"13B ROTARY"_ Engine=0A>>>"RWS"_RD1C/EC2/EM2=0A>>>"MISTRAL"_Backplat= e/Oil Manifold=0A>>>"TURBONETICS"_TO4E50 Turbo=0A>>>=0A>>>=0A>>>From: David= Leonard =0A>>>To: Rotary motors in aircraft =0A>>>Sent: Monday, July 18, 2011 7:55 PM=0A>>>Subject:= [FlyRotary] Re: Ok Here are the important flywheel measurements=0A>>>=0A>>= >=0A>>>Well,=A0 NOW you tell me...=A0 :-)=A0=A0 Yea, that was going to be a= n issues reguardless of which solution we chose.=A0 I think I will bring mi= ne to a machine shop and let them figure it out=A0 :-)=0A>>>=0A>>>-- =0A>>>= David Leonard=0A>>>=0A>>>Turbo Rotary RV-6 N4VY=0A>>>http://N4VY.RotaryRost= er.net=0A>>>http://RotaryRoster.net=0A>>>=0A>>>=0A>>>=0A>>>On Mon, Jul 18, = 2011 at 4:49 PM, Kelly Troyer wrote:=0A>>>=0A>>>Dave,=0A>>= >>=A0=0A>>>>=A0=A0 Forgot to add that there are 3 clutch pressure plate loc= ating dowels in the flywheel.........You=0A>>>>will have to knock these out= with a punch as their position will not let you properly center the =0A>>>= >RD1X drive plate and will not let the drive plate "Float" properly........= ......I have not come up =0A>>>>with a method yet to center the drive plate= with the absolute accuracy needed=A0for drilling the=0A>>>>flywheel for th= e drive plate attach bolts...........Maybe some of the group with more=A0ma= chinists=0A>>>>skills than I can make a recommendation=A0!!................= ..Also the rear of the attach bolt holes=0A>>>>will need to be spotfaced to= provide a flat surface for the bolt head or nut and washer=A0 from=0A>>>>w= hat I have observed on the backside of my flywheel........................<= :)=A0=A0=0A>>>>=0A>>>>Kelly Troyer=0A>>>>"DYKE DELTA JD2" (Eventually)=0A>>= >>"13B ROTARY"_ Engine=0A>>>>"RWS"_RD1C/EC2/EM2=0A>>>>"MISTRAL"_Backplate/O= il Manifold=0A>>>>"TURBONETICS"_TO4E50 Turbo=0A>>>>=0A>>>>=0A>>>>From: Kell= y Troyer =0A>>>>To: Rotary motors in aircraft =0A>>>>Sent: Monday, July 18, 2011 6:29 PM=0A>>>>Subject: [= FlyRotary] Ok Here are the important flywheel measurements=0A>>>>=0A>>>>=0A= >>>>Dave,=0A>>>>=A0=A0 The link attached shows the prolite version (9.8 lbs= ) on the left in the photo.............Do you have=A0your starter flange=0A= >>>>to gear measurement=A0handy as my RD1X starter=A0(not the turbo model)= =A0is 55 miles away at the moment...........=A0=0A>>>>=A0http://www2.advanc= edclutch.com/products/xact_flywheels.aspx=0A>>>>=0A>>>>Kelly Troyer=0A>>>>"= DYKE DELTA JD2" (Eventually)=0A>>>>"13B ROTARY"_ Engine=0A>>>>"RWS"_RD1C/EC= 2/EM2=0A>>>>"MISTRAL"_Backplate/Oil Manifold=0A>>>>"TURBONETICS"_TO4E50 Tur= bo=0A>>>>=0A>>>>=0A>>>>From: David Leonard =0A>>>>To: = Rotary motors in aircraft =0A>>>>Sent: Monday,= July 18, 2011 6:18 PM=0A>>>>Subject: [FlyRotary] Re: Ok Here are the impor= tant flywheel measurements=0A>>>>=0A>>>>=0A>>>>OK Kelly,=0A>>>>=0A>>>>Thank= s to all your hard work and research, I have ordered up the Prolite 9.8 lb = version of this.=A0 Decided that I was done with the flex plates.=A0 Thanks= for locating a great price.=A0 I am a little nervous that the picture does= not look right, but I guess I can always return it.=0A>>>>Like you, I figu= re we will solve the starter issue one way or another.=0A>>>>=0A>>>>-- =0A>= >>>David Leonard=0A>>>>=0A>>>>Turbo Rotary RV-6 N4VY=0A>>>>http://N4VY.Rota= ryRoster.net=0A>>>>http://RotaryRoster.net=0A>>>>=0A>>>>=0A>>>>=0A>>>>On Sa= t, Jul 16, 2011 at 2:21 PM, Kelly Troyer wrote:=0A>>>>=0A>= >>>Dave and All,=0A>>>>>=A0=0A>>>>>=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0 Ok Dave the = "ACT" "Streetlite" 13.8 lb flywheel was just delivered and I am in process = of taking=0A>>>>>your measurements to see where we stand................Thi= s flywheel is a thing of beauty (to a RotorHead)=0A>>>>>and my RD1C drive p= late will bolt to it with no problem (through drill and spotface the rear o= f the flywheel=0A>>>>>because it has a slight taper in that area)..........= ...I just have to verify just where the RD1C drive splines =0A>>>>>will be = positioned (fore and aft) on the input shaft compared to the RX7 flexplate.= ............The clutch plate=0A>>>>>friction area is slightly raised (about= 0.065) above the clutch mount area and I would probably take it=0A>>>>>dow= n tto the clutch level (probably not necessary but would reduce weight slig= htly.............I have a 93-95=0A>>>>>Turbo starter on the way (should tak= e care of starter mesh problem)..............If you are interested I can=0A= >>>>>guide you to another 93-95 starter (used $49.00 with/shipping) if it i= s still for sale.............=0A>>>>>=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0 One other thing = at this time..............The lighter 9.8 lb version may be usable but it i= s listed as 116=0A>>>>>ring gear teeth and I have not found out what its di= ameter is and what starter would be used with it......=0A>>>>>=A0=A0=A0=A0= =A0=A0=A0 I suspect it may be the diameter of the NA 13B flywheels and may = use the 86-91=A0NA manual trans=0A>>>>>starter............You need to talk = to the manufacturer..........They are in Lancaster, Calif............The 9.= 8 lb=0A>>>>>version is a little more expensive due to more extensive machin= e work to reduce weight.............See the=0A>>>>>link below............Th= e link to THMotorsports has the best price I have found on the 9.8 lb flywh= eel......The=0A>>>>>photo on their page is not the Rotary 9.8 lb version...= ........=A0=0A>>>>>=A0=0A>>>>>http://www2.advancedclutch.com/products/xact_= flywheels.aspx=0A>>>>>=A0=0A>>>>>=A0=0A>>>>>http://thmotorsports.com/act/ac= t_flywheel_prolite/600140/i-47718.aspx=0A>>>>>=0A>>>>>Kelly Troyer=0A>>>>>"= DYKE DELTA JD2" (Eventually)=0A>>>>>"13B ROTARY"_ Engine=0A>>>>>"RWS"_RD1C/= EC2/EM2=0A>>>>>"MISTRAL"_Backplate/Oil Manifold=0A>>>>>"TURBONETICS"_TO4E50= Turbo=0A>>>>>=0A>>>>>=0A>>>>>From: Kelly Troyer =0A>>>>>To= : Rotary motors in aircraft =0A>>>>>Sent: Frid= ay, July 15, 2011 12:34 PM=0A>>>>>Subject: [FlyRotary] Re: Ok Here are the = important flywheel measurements=0A>>>>>=0A>>>>>=0A>>>>>Dave and All,=0A>>>>= >=A0=0A>>>>>=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0 Sounds encourageing...............Repl= acing the starter with turbo model would seem to be=0A>>>>>least expensive = and safer than adding additional ring gear + welding..............I also ec= ho what=0A>>>>>Bill and Bobby have said concerning the Al Wick fix and gett= ing Tracy's thoughts about cause=0A>>>>>of problem and perhaps need for per= iodic inspection and/or rubber=A0isolator replacement........=A0=0A>>>>>=0A= >>>>>Kelly Troyer=0A>>>>>"DYKE DELTA JD2" (Eventually)=0A>>>>>"13B ROTARY"_= Engine=0A>>>>>"RWS"_RD1C/EC2/EM2=0A>>>>>"MISTRAL"_Backplate/Oil Manifold= =0A>>>>>"TURBONETICS"_TO4E50 Turbo=0A>>>>>=0A>>>>>=0A>>>>>From: David Leona= rd =0A>>>>>To: Rotary motors in aircraft =0A>>>>>Sent: Thursday, July 14, 2011 11:41 PM=0A>>>>>Subje= ct: [FlyRotary] Ok Here are the important flywheel measurements=0A>>>>>=0A>= >>>>=0A>>>>>I finally got to the hangar and measured out my S5 turbo flywhe= el and the remains of my S5 flexplate.=A0 The results are very encouraging,= even as good as the possibly could be to make the swap, but I only had ten= min at the hangar before I had to leave to pick up my daughter from daycar= e, so they are one try and slightly sloppy... I make no guarantees.=A0 The = height measurements of the flex plate were particularly suspect because, we= ll, mine is all warped and broken.=0A>>>>>=0A>>>>>Ring Gear Diameter - Perf= ect fit.=A0 As we suspected, same size, same tooth spacing.=0A>>>>>=0A>>>>>= Ring Gear Fore-Aft Placement - As measured from the underside of the big nu= t. (for all further reference, aft means aft in the CAR).=A0 The flex plate= puts the aft side of the ring gear 1.290 inches from the front of the big = nut. The flywheel puts it 0.913.=A0 So the flex plate puts the ring gear (a= ppx) 0.377 in. further aft.=A0 This is actually fortuitous because it just = so happens that the ring gear thickness is .365 ...=A0=A0=A0 So all we have= to do to fix the discrepancy is weld and extra ring gears onto to the flyw= heel ring gear and there will be teeth that the starter can reach:(bottom o= f the page.. the cost $80)=0A>>>>>http://mazdatrix.com/flywheel.htm=0A>>>>>= It may also be possible to fix the discrepancy by changing the starter... w= ill look into that.=0A>>>>>=0A>>>>>Damper Plate Placement - On the flywheel= , the mounting surface is proud (or aft) of the ring gear.=A0 On the flex p= late, the mounting surface is recessed (or forward) from the ring gear. A= =0A>>>>>nd it all pretty much works out.=A0 That position on the flywheel w= ill vary somewhat depending on which flywheel you have and how much wear yo= u have on the clutch slip surface. But on my (I assume well-worn) flywheel = the placement was 0.965 while the flex plate was 0.950.=A0 Pretty damn clos= e and given measurement error it might me meant to be right on.=A0 Or, any = difference could be made up by trimming down the spline on the damper plate= or removing or adding spacers between the two.=0A>>>>>=0A>>>>>So in my min= d, a flywheel is the way to go.=A0 Stout, easy to get, pick your weight, on= ly mods seem to be drilling the mounting holes and welding on a second gear= ring.=0A>>>>>=0A>>>>>-- =0A>>>>>David Leonard=0A>>>>>=0A>>>>>=0A>=0A>=0A= =0A=0A-- =0ADavid Leonard=0A=0ATurbo Rotary RV-6 N4VY=0Ahttp://N4VY.RotaryR= oster.net=0Ahttp://RotaryRoster.net --0-1649670476-1311117971=:82959 Content-Type: text/html; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
Dave,
 
    I= figure now that Mazda decided to vary the depths needed for the vario= us flywheels by changing<= /SPAN>
the dimensions (dept= h) of the bell housing starter mount point.......... ( 
Kelly Troyer
"DYKE D= ELTA JD2" (Eventually)
"13B ROTARY"_ Engine
"RWS"_RD1C/EC2/EM= 2
"MISTRAL"_Backplate/Oil Manifold
"TURBONETICS"_TO4E50 Turbo

From:= David Leonard <wdleonard@gmail.com>
To: Rotary motors in aircraft <flyrotary@l= ancaironline.net>
Sent: Tuesday, July 19, 2011 4:52 PM
S= ubject: [FlyRotary] Re: Ok Here are= the important flywheel measurements

Yea, that is a bummer, but I was not very hopeful. =  So we can weld an additional ring gear onto the face of the other, or= machine our existing starters and/or flex plates.  I will p= robably do the latter.  Won't be that big of a deal I hope.  Than= ks for being the parts consultant.  At least now you have a spare star= t to use should you ever need one.=20

David

On Tue, Jul 19, 2011 at 2:06 PM, Kell= y Troyer <keltro@att.net>= wrote:
Dave,
 
   Turbo starter is here..........Priliminary quick and dirty measurements are 1.875 starter flange=
to far end of unactivated starter (bendix= ) gear) which is 0.121 more than your 1.754 number
and the same for all practical purposes considering probabl= e slight errors.............I do not have
1988 manual trans starter at the moment but will be at my hangar= tomorrow and will pick it up
to bring back with me for an in depth exam for any differences b= etween them............If there is
a difference I would think it would be in the starter gear as 19= 86-91 NA manual trans starter  
was used on a slightly smaller flywhee= l although it has worked well on the larger auto trans
flexplate..........."= Sigh".........Such is experimental aviation and so much for "AS"umptions....<:)
 
Kelly Troyer
"DYKE = DELTA JD2" (Eventually)
"13B ROTARY"_ Engine
"RWS"_RD1C/EC2/E= M2
"MISTRAL"_Backplate/Oil Manifold
"TURBONETICS"_TO4E50 Turbo

From: David Leonard <wdleonard@gmail.com>
To: Rotary motors in aircraft <flyrotary@lancaironline.net>
<= SPAN style=3D"FONT-WEIGHT: bold">Sent: Monday, July 18, 2011 11:= 28 PM=20

Subje= ct: [FlyRotary] Re: Ok Here are th= e important flywheel measurements

Hi Kelly,=20
I already took Tracys plate into account= . (I measured it at .520 in).  So it was 1.234 plus the .520 for the p= late.  For ease, I measured when the solenoid was NOT activated.  = ;Crossing fingers, but ready to mill the plate and starter.... eh, I mean, = hire someone to do it :-)

David

On Mon, Jul 18, 2011 at 9:14 PM, Kelly Troyer <keltro@att.net> wrote:
Dave,
 
   So adding the RD1X mount plate thickness 0.500 (1/2= inch) we have a measurement of approx 2.254 inch...........Tracy
calls for a 1986 NA (86 to 91 are the same) manual transmis= sion starter.............I do not know exactly what difference&nb= sp;the
turbo starter has except the turbo flywheel and automatic = flex-plate are slightly larger in diameter a= nd have more ring gear
teeth than the 86-91 NA manual flywheel................Ther= e was no turbo engine offered until 1987.........= ....I should have the
turbo starter in a few days so we can decide if it will be about= 0.375 in longer from mounting flange to end of the starter
gear teeth when activated by the solenoid..........= ....Cross your fingers !!............<:) 
 
 
Kelly Troyer
"DYKE DELTA JD2" (Eventually)
"13B ROTARY"_ Engine
"RWS"_RD1C/EC2/EM2
"MISTRAL"_Backplate<= /SPAN>/Oil Manifold
"TURBONETICS"_TO4E50 Turbo<= /DIV>

From: David Leonard <wdleonard@gmail.com>
To: Rotary motors in aircraft <flyrotary@lancaironline.net>
Sent: Monday, July 18, 2011 9:34 PMSubject: [FlyRotary] Re: = Ok Here are the important flywhe= el measurements

Kelly, here is the starter measurement. This is the starter that Tracy= recommends, I forget which one that is.  From the engine side of the = mounting flange, to the far end of the tear tooth, I measure 1.754 - give o= r take.=20

-- 
David Leonard

Turbo Rotary RV-6 N4VY
http://N4VY.RotaryRoster.net
http://RotaryR= oster.net

On Mon, Jul 18, 2011 at 6:16 PM, Kelly Troyer <keltro@att.net> wrote:
Dave,
   While they are at it have them turn the pressure pl= ate surface down to the pressure plate mounting
level so all of the rubber osolator= is on a flat surface without a 0.018 step at the outer edge.= ......Or
you could put a washer under the drive plate (like the top washe= r)............But this would put the drive
plate further forward on the input shaft splines the thickness o= f the washer..........I do not khow if this
would pose= a problem or not...........
 
Kelly Troyer
"DYKE DELTA JD2" (Eventually)
"13B ROTARY"_ Engine
"RWS"_RD1C/EC2/EM2
"MISTRAL"_Backplate<= /SPAN>/Oil Manifold
"TURBONETICS"_TO4E50 Turbo<= /DIV>

From: David Leonard <wdleonard@gmail.com>
To: Rotary motors in aircraft <flyrotary@lancaironline.net>
Sent: Monday, July 18, 2011 7:55 PMSubject: [FlyRotary] Re: = Ok Here are the important flywhe= el measurements

Well,  NOW you tell me...  :-)   Yea, that was goi= ng to be an issues reguardless o= f which solution we chose.  I think I will bring mine to a machine sho= p and let them figure it out  :-)
 
--
David Leonard

Turbo Rotary RV-6 N4VY
http://N4VY.RotaryRoster.net
http://RotaryRoster.n= et


On Mon, Jul 18, 2011 at 4:49 PM, Kelly Troyer <keltro@att.net> wrote:
Dave,
 
   Forgot to add that there are 3 clutch pressure plat= e locating dowels in the flywheel.........You
will have to knock these out with a punch as their position will= not let you properly center the
RD1X drive plate and will not let the drive plate "Float" proper= ly..............I have not come up
with a method yet to center the drive plate with the absolute ac= curacy needed for drilling the
flywheel for the drive plate attach bolts...........Maybe some o= f the group with more machinists
skills than I can make a recommendation !!.....= .............Also the rear of the attach bolt holes
will need to be s= potfaced to provide a flat surface for the bolt head o= r nut and washer  from
what I have observed on the backside of my flywheel.= .......................<:)  
 
Kelly Troyer
"DYKE DELTA JD2" (Ev= entually)
"13B ROTARY"_ Engine
"RWS<= /SPAN>"_RD1C/EC2/EM2
"MISTRAL"_Backplate/Oil Manifold
"TURBONETICS"_TO4E50 Turbo

From: Kelly Troyer <keltro@att.net>
To:= Rotary motors in aircraft <flyrotary@lancaironline.net>
Sent: Monday, July 18, 2011 6:29 PM
Subject: [FlyRotary] Ok Here are the important = flywheel measurements

Dave,
   The link attached shows the prolite version (9.8 lbs) on = the left in the photo.............Do you have your starter flange
to gear measurement handy as my RD1X starter (not the = turbo model) is 55 miles away at the moment........... = ;
 
 
Kelly Troyer
"DYKE DELTA JD2" (Ev= entually)
"13B ROTARY"_ Engine
"RWS<= /SPAN>"_RD1C/EC2/EM2
"MISTRAL"_Backplate/Oil Manifold
"TURBONETICS"_TO4E50 Turbo

From: David Leonard <wdleonard@gmail.com>
To: Rotary motors in aircraft <flyrotary@lancaironline.net>
Sent: Monday, July 18, 2011 6:18 PMSubject: [FlyRotary] Re: = Ok Her= e are the important flywheel measurements

OK Kelly,
 
Thanks to all your hard work and research, I have ordered up the Prolite 9.8= lb version of this.  Decided that I was done with the flex plates.&nb= sp; Thanks for locating a great price.  I am a little nervous that the= picture does not look right, but I guess I can always return it.
Like you, I figure we will solve the starter issue one way or another.=
 
--
David Leonard

Turbo Rotary RV-6 N4VY
http://N4VY.RotaryRoster= .net
http://RotaryRoster.net


On Sat, Jul 16, 2011 at 2:21 PM, Kelly Troyer <keltro@att.net> wrote:
Dave and All,
 
          Ok Dave the "AC= T" "Streetlite" 13.8 lb flywheel was just delivered and I am in process of taking=
your measurements to see where we stand................This flyw= heel is a thing of beauty (to a Ro= torHead)
and my RD1C drive plate will bolt to it with no problem (through= drill and spotface<= /SPAN> the rear of the flywheel
because it has a slight taper in that area).............I just h= ave to verify just where the RD1C drive splines
will be positioned (fore and aft) on the input shaft compared to= the RX7 flexplate.............The clutch plate
friction area is slightly raised (about 0.065) above the clutch = mount area and I would probably take it
down tto<= /SPAN> the clutch level (probably not necessary but would reduce wei= ght slightly.............I have a 93-95
Turbo starter on the way (should take care of starter mesh probl= em)..............If you are interested I can
guide you to another 93-95 starter (used $49.00 with/shipping) i= f it is still for sale.............
        One other thing at th= is time..............The lighter 9.8 lb version may be usable but it is lis= ted as 116
ring gear teeth and I have not found out what its diameter is an= d what starter would be used with it......
        I suspect it may be t= he diameter of the NA 13B flywheels and may use the 86-91 NA manual tr= ans
starter............You need to talk to the manufacturer.........= .They are in Lancaster, Calif............The 9.8 lb
version is a little more expensive due to more extensive machine= work to reduce weight.............See the
link below............The link to THMotorsports has the best price I h= ave found on the 9.8 lb flywheel......The
photo on their page is not the Rotary 9.8 lb version...........&= nbsp;
 
 
 
 
Kelly Troyer
"DYKE DELTA JD2" (Ev= entually)
"13B ROTARY"_ Engine
"RWS<= /SPAN>"_RD1C/EC2/EM2
"MISTRAL"_Backplate/Oil Manifold
"TURBONETICS"_TO4E50 Turbo

From: Kelly Troyer <keltro@att.net>
To:= Rotary motors in aircraft <flyrotary@lancaironline.net>
Sent: Friday, July 15, 2011 12:34 PM
Subject: [FlyRotary] Re: Ok Here are the impor= tant flywheel measurements

Dave and All,
 
         Sounds encourageing..= .............Replacing the starter with turbo model would seem to be=
least expensive and safer than adding additional ring gear + wel= ding..............I also echo what
Bill and Bobby have said concerning the Al Wick fix and getting = Tracy's thoughts about cause
of problem and perhaps need for periodic inspection and/or rubbe= r isolator replacement........ 
 
Kelly Troyer
"DYKE DELTA JD2" (Ev= entually)
"13B ROTARY"_ Engine
"RWS<= /SPAN>"_RD1C/EC2/EM2
"MISTRAL"_Backplate/Oil Manifold
"TURBONETICS"_TO4E50 Turbo

From: David Leonard <wdleonard@gmail.com>
To: Rotary motors in aircraft <flyrotary@lancaironline.net>
Sent: Thursday, July 14, 2011 11:41 P= M
Subject: [FlyRotary] <= SPAN>Ok Here= are the important flywheel measurements

I finally got to the hangar and measured out my S5 turbo flywheel and = the remains of my S5 flexplate.  The results are very encouraging, even as g= ood as the possibly could be to make the swap, but I only had ten min at th= e hangar before I had to leave to pick up my daughter from daycare, so they= are one try and slightly sloppy... I make no guarantees.  The height = measurements of the flex plate were particularly suspect because, well, min= e is all warped and broken.

Ring Gear Diameter - Perfect fit.=   As we suspected, same size, same tooth spacing.

Ring Gear = Fore-Aft Placement - As measured from the underside of the big nut. (fo= r all further reference, aft means aft in the CAR).  The flex plate pu= ts the aft side of the ring gear 1.290 inches from the front of the big nut= . The flywheel puts it 0.913.  So the flex plate puts the ring gear (appx) 0.377 in. further aft.  This is actually fortuitous because it = just so happens that the ring gear thickness is .365 ...    = So all we have to do to fix the discrepancy is weld and extra ring gears on= to to the flywheel ring gear and there will be teeth that the starter can r= each:(bottom of the page.. the cost $80)
http://mazdatrix.com/flywheel= .htm
It may also be possible to fix the discrepancy by changing the = starter... will look into that.

Damper Plate Placement - On t= he flywheel, the mounting surface is proud (or aft) of the ring gear. = On the flex plate, the mounting surface is recessed (or forward) from the = ring gear. A
nd it all pretty much works= out.  That position on the flywheel will vary somewhat depending on w= hich flywheel you have and how much wear you have on the clutch slip surfac= e. But on my (I assume well-worn) flywheel the placement was 0.965 while th= e flex plate was 0.950.  Pretty damn close and given measurement error= it might me meant to be right on.  Or, any difference could be made u= p by trimming down the spline on the damper plate or removing or adding spa= cers between the two.

So in my mind, a flywheel is the way to go.&nb= sp; Stout, easy to get, pick your weight, only mods seem to be drilling the= mounting holes and welding on a second gear ring.

--
David Leonard

<= /DIV>





--
David Leonard

Turbo Rot= ary RV-6 N4VY
http://N4VY.RotaryRoster.net
h= ttp://RotaryRoster.net


= --0-1649670476-1311117971=:82959--