X-Virus-Scanned: clean according to Sophos on Logan.com Return-Path: Received: from mail-ew0-f52.google.com ([209.85.215.52] verified) by logan.com (CommuniGate Pro SMTP 5.4.0) with ESMTPS id 5056190 for flyrotary@lancaironline.net; Mon, 18 Jul 2011 22:35:26 -0400 Received-SPF: pass receiver=logan.com; client-ip=209.85.215.52; envelope-from=wdleonard@gmail.com Received: by ewy28 with SMTP id 28so1725882ewy.25 for ; Mon, 18 Jul 2011 19:34:48 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=gamma; h=mime-version:in-reply-to:references:date:message-id:subject:from:to :content-type; bh=bd1ArSgNoo/ib25oYpXOzjJJvcRP4H3sMCGOIAiLyK0=; b=ouzCEJ7Pj0HR6lRskYo8cBfPRPY2B9OmdOYuyH1OCcSGcyiPWqlKTLWVV5CD0HLwH9 ds+wG45UUNYExQQOrQvGrtSJl8PVLtUEZCjYx+JuiiJpeqZJfGMQtV1QE/c3ApKag+MK r3DP7+2lyNIA2fNjCPc5phi0adSvU2dx58u2Q= MIME-Version: 1.0 Received: by 10.14.97.68 with SMTP id s44mr2549945eef.169.1311042888119; Mon, 18 Jul 2011 19:34:48 -0700 (PDT) Received: by 10.14.37.4 with HTTP; Mon, 18 Jul 2011 19:34:48 -0700 (PDT) In-Reply-To: References: Date: Mon, 18 Jul 2011 19:34:48 -0700 Message-ID: Subject: Re: [FlyRotary] Ok Here are the important flywheel measurements From: David Leonard To: Rotary motors in aircraft Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary=bcaec52be6afa1b6e704a862f568 --bcaec52be6afa1b6e704a862f568 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Kelly, here is the starter measurement. This is the starter that Tracy recommends, I forget which one that is. From the engine side of the mounting flange, to the far end of the tear tooth, I measure 1.754 - give or take. -- David Leonard Turbo Rotary RV-6 N4VY http://N4VY.RotaryRoster.net http://RotaryRoster.net On Mon, Jul 18, 2011 at 6:16 PM, Kelly Troyer wrote: > Dave, > While they are at it have them turn the pressure plate surface down to > the pressure plate mounting > level so all of the rubber osolator is on a flat surface without a 0.018 > step at the outer edge.......Or > you could put a washer under the drive plate (like the top > washer)............But this would put the drive > plate further forward on the input shaft splines the thickness of the > washer..........I do not khow if this > would pose a problem or not........... > > Kelly Troyer > *"DYKE DELTA JD2" (Eventually)* > "13B ROTARY"_ Engine > "RWS"_RD1C/EC2/EM2 > "MISTRAL"_Backplate/Oil Manifold > "TURBONETICS"_TO4E50 Turbo > > *From:* David Leonard > *To:* Rotary motors in aircraft > *Sent:* Monday, July 18, 2011 7:55 PM > *Subject:* [FlyRotary] Re: Ok Here are the important flywheel measurements > > Well, NOW you tell me... :-) Yea, that was going to be an issues > reguardless of which solution we chose. I think I will bring mine to a > machine shop and let them figure it out :-) > > -- > David Leonard > > Turbo Rotary RV-6 N4VY > http://N4VY.RotaryRoster.net > http://RotaryRoster.net > > > On Mon, Jul 18, 2011 at 4:49 PM, Kelly Troyer wrote: > > Dave, > > Forgot to add that there are 3 clutch pressure plate locating dowels in > the flywheel.........You > will have to knock these out with a punch as their position will not let > you properly center the > RD1X drive plate and will not let the drive plate "Float" > properly..............I have not come up > with a method yet to center the drive plate with the absolute accuracy > needed for drilling the > flywheel for the drive plate attach bolts...........Maybe some of the group > with more machinists > skills than I can make a recommendation !!..................Also the rear > of the attach bolt holes > will need to be spotfaced to provide a flat surface for the bolt head or > nut and washer from > what I have observed on the backside of my > flywheel........................<:) > > Kelly Troyer > *"DYKE DELTA JD2" (Eventually)* > "13B ROTARY"_ Engine > "RWS"_RD1C/EC2/EM2 > "MISTRAL"_Backplate/Oil Manifold > "TURBONETICS"_TO4E50 Turbo > > *From:* Kelly Troyer > *To:* Rotary motors in aircraft > *Sent:* Monday, July 18, 2011 6:29 PM > *Subject:* [FlyRotary] Ok Here are the important flywheel measurements > > Dave, > The link attached shows the prolite version (9.8 lbs) on the left in > the photo.............Do you have your starter flange > to gear measurement handy as my RD1X starter (not the turbo model) is 55 > miles away at the moment........... > > http://www2.advancedclutch.com/products/xact_flywheels.aspx > > Kelly Troyer > *"DYKE DELTA JD2" (Eventually)* > "13B ROTARY"_ Engine > "RWS"_RD1C/EC2/EM2 > "MISTRAL"_Backplate/Oil Manifold > "TURBONETICS"_TO4E50 Turbo > > *From:* David Leonard > *To:* Rotary motors in aircraft > *Sent:* Monday, July 18, 2011 6:18 PM > *Subject:* [FlyRotary] Re: Ok Here are the important flywheel measurements > > OK Kelly, > > Thanks to all your hard work and research, I have ordered up the Prolite9.8 lb version of this. Decided that I was done with the flex plates. > Thanks for locating a great price. I am a little nervous that the picture > does not look right, but I guess I can always return it. > Like you, I figure we will solve the starter issue one way or another. > > -- > David Leonard > > Turbo Rotary RV-6 N4VY > http://N4VY.RotaryRoster.net > http://RotaryRoster.net > > > On Sat, Jul 16, 2011 at 2:21 PM, Kelly Troyer wrote: > > Dave and All, > > Ok Dave the "ACT" "Streetlite" 13.8 lb flywheel was just > delivered and I am in process of taking > your measurements to see where we stand................This flywheel is a > thing of beauty (to a RotorHead) > and my RD1C drive plate will bolt to it with no problem (through drill and > spotface the rear of the flywheel > because it has a slight taper in that area).............I just have to > verify just where the RD1C drive splines > will be positioned (fore and aft) on the input shaft compared to the RX7 > flexplate.............The clutch plate > friction area is slightly raised (about 0.065) above the clutch mount area > and I would probably take it > down tto the clutch level (probably not necessary but would reduce weight > slightly.............I have a 93-95 > Turbo starter on the way (should take care of starter mesh > problem)..............If you are interested I can > guide you to another 93-95 starter (used $49.00 with/shipping) if it is > still for sale............. > One other thing at this time..............The lighter 9.8 lb > version may be usable but it is listed as 116 > ring gear teeth and I have not found out what its diameter is and what > starter would be used with it...... > I suspect it may be the diameter of the NA 13B flywheels and may > use the 86-91 NA manual trans > starter............You need to talk to the manufacturer..........They are > in Lancaster, Calif............The 9.8 lb > version is a little more expensive due to more extensive machine work to > reduce weight.............See the > link below............The link to THMotorsports has the best price I have > found on the 9.8 lb flywheel......The > photo on their page is not the Rotary 9.8 lb version........... > > http://www2.advancedclutch.com/products/xact_flywheels.aspx > > > http://thmotorsports.com/act/act_flywheel_prolite/600140/i-47718.aspx > > Kelly Troyer > *"DYKE DELTA JD2" (Eventually)* > "13B ROTARY"_ Engine > "RWS"_RD1C/EC2/EM2 > "MISTRAL"_Backplate/Oil Manifold > "TURBONETICS"_TO4E50 Turbo > > *From:* Kelly Troyer > *To:* Rotary motors in aircraft > *Sent:* Friday, July 15, 2011 12:34 PM > *Subject:* [FlyRotary] Re: Ok Here are the important flywheel measurements > > Dave and All, > > Sounds encourageing...............Replacing the starter with > turbo model would seem to be > least expensive and safer than adding additional ring gear + > welding..............I also echo what > Bill and Bobby have said concerning the Al Wick fix and getting Tracy's > thoughts about cause > of problem and perhaps need for periodic inspection and/or rubber isolator > replacement........ > > Kelly Troyer > *"DYKE DELTA JD2" (Eventually)* > "13B ROTARY"_ Engine > "RWS"_RD1C/EC2/EM2 > "MISTRAL"_Backplate/Oil Manifold > "TURBONETICS"_TO4E50 Turbo > > *From:* David Leonard > *To:* Rotary motors in aircraft > *Sent:* Thursday, July 14, 2011 11:41 PM > *Subject:* [FlyRotary] Ok Here are the important flywheel measurements > > I finally got to the hangar and measured out my S5 turbo flywheel and the > remains of my S5 flexplate. The results are very encouraging, even as > good as the possibly could be to make the swap, but I only had ten min at > the hangar before I had to leave to pick up my daughter from daycare, so > they are one try and slightly sloppy... I make no guarantees. The height > measurements of the flex plate were particularly suspect because, well, mine > is all warped and broken. > > *Ring Gear Diameter* - Perfect fit. As we suspected, same size, same > tooth spacing. > > *Ring Gear Fore-Aft Placement* - As measured from the underside of the big > nut. (for all further reference, aft means aft in the CAR). The flex plate > puts the aft side of the ring gear 1.290 inches from the front of the big > nut. The flywheel puts it 0.913. So the flex plate puts the ring gear ( > appx) 0.377 in. further aft. This is actually fortuitous because it just > so happens that the ring gear thickness is .365 ... So all we have to do > to fix the discrepancy is weld and extra ring gears onto to the flywheel > ring gear and there will be teeth that the starter can reach:(bottom of the > page.. the cost $80) > http://mazdatrix.com/flywheel.htm > It may also be possible to fix the discrepancy by changing the starter... > will look into that. > > *Damper Plate Placement* - On the flywheel, the mounting surface is proud > (or aft) of the ring gear. On the flex plate, the mounting surface is > recessed (or forward) from the ring gear. A > nd it all pretty much works out. That position on the flywheel will vary > somewhat depending on which flywheel you have and how much wear you have on > the clutch slip surface. But on my (I assume well-worn) flywheel the > placement was 0.965 while the flex plate was 0.950. Pretty damn close and > given measurement error it might me meant to be right on. Or, any > difference could be made up by trimming down the spline on the damper plate > or removing or adding spacers between the two. > > So in my mind, a flywheel is the way to go. Stout, easy to get, pick your > weight, only mods seem to be drilling the mounting holes and welding on a > second gear ring. > > -- > David Leonard > > Turbo Rotary RV-6 N4VY > http://N4VY.RotaryRoster.net > http://RotaryRoster.net > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > --bcaec52be6afa1b6e704a862f568 Content-Type: text/html; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Kelly, here is the starter measurement. This is the starter that Tracy reco= mmends, I forget which one that is. =A0From the engine side of the mounting= flange, to the far end of the tear tooth, I measure 1.754 - give or take.<= div>
--=A0
David Leonard

Turbo Rotary RV-6 N4VY
http://N4VY.RotaryRoster.net
http://RotaryRoster.net

On Mon, Jul 18, 2011 at 6:16 PM, Kelly Troyer <keltro@att.net> wrote:
Dave,
=A0=A0 While they are at it have them turn the pressure plate su= rface down to the pressure plate mounting
level so all of the rubber osolator is on a flat surface without= a 0.018 step at the outer edge.......Or
you could put a washer under the drive plate (like the top washe= r)............But this would put the drive
plate further forward on the input shaft splines the thickness o= f the washer..........I do not khow if this
would pose a problem or not...........
=A0
Kelly Troyer
"DYKE DELTA JD2" = (Eventually)
"13B ROTARY"_ Engine
"RWS"_RD1C/EC2/EM2
&quo= t;MISTRAL"_Backplate/Oil Manifold
"TURBONETICS"_TO4E50 Turbo

From: David Leonard &l= t;wdleonard@gmail.= com>
To: Rotary mo= tors in aircraft <flyrotary@lancaironline.net>
Sent: Monday, July 18, 2011 = 7:55 PM
Subject: [FlyRota= ry] Re: Ok Here are the important flywheel measurements

Well,=A0 NOW you tell me...=A0 :-)=A0=A0 Yea, that was going to be an = issues reguardless of which solution we chose.=A0 I think I will bring mine= to a machine shop and let them figure it out=A0 :-)
=A0
--
David Leonard

Turbo Rotary RV-6 N4VY
http://N4VY.Ro= taryRoster.net
http://RotaryRoster.net


On Mon, Jul 18, 2011 at 4:49 PM, Kelly Troyer <keltro@a= tt.net> wrote:
Dave,
=A0
=A0=A0 Forgot to add that there are 3 clutch pressure plate loca= ting dowels in the flywheel.........You
will have to knock these out with a punch as their position will= not let you properly center the
RD1X drive plate and will not let the drive plate "Float&qu= ot; properly..............I have not come up
with a method yet to center the drive plate with the absolute ac= curacy needed=A0for drilling the
flywheel for the drive plate attach bolts...........Maybe some o= f the group with more=A0machinists
skills than I can make a recommendation=A0!!........= ..........Also the rear of the attach bolt holes
will need to be spotfaced to provide a = flat surface for the bolt head or nut and washer=A0 from
what I have observed on the backside of my flywheel.= .......................<:)=A0=A0
=A0
Kelly Troyer
"DYKE DELTA JD2" (Eventually)
"13B ROTARY"_ Engine
"RWS&= quot;_RD1C/EC2/EM2
"MISTRAL"_Backplate/Oil Manifold
"TURBONETICS"_TO4E50 Turbo

From: Kelly Troyer <= ;keltr= o@att.net>
To: Rot= ary motors in aircraft <flyrotary@lancaironline.net>
Sent: Monday, July 18, 2011 = 6:29 PM
Subject: [FlyRota= ry] Ok Here are the important flywheel measuremen= ts

Dave,
=A0=A0 The link attached shows the prolite version (9.8 lbs) on the left in the photo.............Do you have=A0y= our starter flange
to gear measurement=A0handy as my RD1X starter=A0(not the turbo = model)=A0is 55 miles away at the moment...........=A0
=A0
=A0
Kelly Troyer
"DYKE DELTA JD2" (Eventually)
"13B ROTARY"_ Engine
"RWS&= quot;_RD1C/EC2/EM2
"MISTRAL"_Backplate/Oil Manifold
"TURBONETICS"_TO4E50 Turbo

From: David Leonard &l= t;wdleonard@gmail.com>
To: Rotary motors in aircraft <flyrotary@lancaironline.net>
Sent: Monday, July 18, 2011 = 6:18 PM
Subject: [FlyRota= ry] Re: Ok Here are the important flywheel measur= ements

OK Kelly,
=A0
Thanks to all your hard work and research, I have ordered up the Prolite 9.8 lb version of this.=A0 Decided that I was = done with the flex plates.=A0 Thanks for locating a great price.=A0 I am a = little nervous that the picture does not look right, but I guess I can alwa= ys return it.
Like you, I figure we will solve the starter issue one way or another.=
=A0
On Sat, Jul 16, 2011 at 2:21 PM, Kelly Troyer <keltro@a= tt.net> wrote:
Dave and All,
=A0
=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0 Ok Dave th= e "ACT" "Streetlite" 13.8 lb = flywheel was just delivered and I am in process of taking
your measurements to see where we stand................This flyw= heel is a thing of beauty (to a RotorHead)=
and my RD1C drive plate will bolt to it with no problem (through= drill and spotface the rear of the flywheel
because it has a slight taper in that area).............I just h= ave to verify just where the RD1C drive splines
will be positioned (fore and aft) on the input shaft compared to= the RX7 flexplate.............The clutch plate
friction area is slightly raised (about 0.065) above the clutch = mount area and I would probably take it
down tto the clutch level (probably no= t necessary but would reduce weight slightly.............I have a 93-95
Turbo starter on the way (should take care of starter mesh probl= em)..............If you are interested I can
guide you to another 93-95 starter (used $49.00 with/shipping) i= f it is still for sale.............
=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0 One other thing at this time..............= The lighter 9.8 lb version may be usable but it is listed as 116
ring gear teeth and I have not found out what its diameter is an= d what starter would be used with it......
=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0 I suspect it may be the diameter of the NA= 13B flywheels and may use the 86-91=A0NA manual trans
starter............You need to talk to the manufacturer.........= .They are in Lancaster, Calif............The 9.8 lb
version is a little more expensive due to more extensive machine= work to reduce weight.............See the
link below............The link to THMotorsports has the best price I have found on the 9.8 lb flywheel......= The
photo on their page is not the Rotary 9.8 lb version...........= =A0
=A0
=A0
=A0
=A0
Kelly Troyer
"DYKE DELTA JD2" (Eventually)
"13B ROTARY"_ Engine
"RWS&= quot;_RD1C/EC2/EM2
"MISTRAL"_Backplate/Oil Manifold
"TURBONETICS"_TO4E50 Turbo

From: Kelly Troyer <= ;keltr= o@att.net>
To: Rot= ary motors in aircraft <flyrotary@lancaironline.net>
Sent: Friday, July 15, 2011 = 12:34 PM
Subject: [FlyRot= ary] Re: Ok Here are the important flywheel measu= rements

Dave and All,
=A0
=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0 Sounds encourageing<= /span>...............Replacing the starter with turbo model would seem to b= e
least expensive and safer than adding additional ring gear + wel= ding..............I also echo what
Bill and Bobby have said concerning the Al Wick fix and getting = Tracy's thoughts about cause
of problem and perhaps need for periodic inspection and/or rubbe= r=A0isolator replacement........=A0
=A0
Kelly Troyer
"DYKE DELTA JD2" (Eventually)
"13B ROTARY"_ Engine
"RWS&= quot;_RD1C/EC2/EM2
"MISTRAL"_Backplate/Oil Manifold
"TURBONETICS"_TO4E50 Turbo

From: David Leonard &l= t;wdleonard@gmail.com>
To: Rotary motors in aircraft <flyrotary@lancaironline.net>
Sent: Thursday, July 14, 201= 1 11:41 PM
Subject: [FlyR= otary] Ok Here are the important flywheel measure= ments

I finally got to the hangar and measured out my S5 turbo flywheel and = the remains of my S5 flexplate.=A0 The results ar= e very encouraging, even as good as the possibly could be to make the swap,= but I only had ten min at the hangar before I had to leave to pick up my d= aughter from daycare, so they are one try and slightly sloppy... I make no = guarantees.=A0 The height measurements of the flex plate were particularly = suspect because, well, mine is all warped and broken.

Ring Gear Diameter - Perfect fit.=A0 As we suspected, same size,= same tooth spacing.

Ring Gear Fore-Aft Placement - As measur= ed from the underside of the big nut. (for all further reference, aft means= aft in the CAR).=A0 The flex plate puts the aft side of the ring gear 1.29= 0 inches from the front of the big nut. The flywheel puts it 0.913.=A0 So t= he flex plate puts the ring gear (appx) 0.377 in. further aft.=A0 This is actually fortuitous because it just so happens= that the ring gear thickness is .365 ...=A0=A0=A0 So all we have to do to = fix the discrepancy is weld and extra ring gears onto to the flywheel ring = gear and there will be teeth that the starter can reach:(bottom of the page= .. the cost $80)
http://mazdatrix.com/flywheel.htm
It may also be possible to f= ix the discrepancy by changing the starter... will look into that.

<= b>Damper Plate Placement - On the flywheel, the mounting surface is pro= ud (or aft) of the ring gear.=A0 On the flex plate, the mounting surface is= recessed (or forward) from the ring gear. A
nd it all pretty much works out.=A0 That position on the flywheel will= vary somewhat depending on which flywheel you have and how much wear you h= ave on the clutch slip surface. But on my (I assume well-worn) flywheel the= placement was 0.965 while the flex plate was 0.950.=A0 Pretty damn close a= nd given measurement error it might me meant to be right on.=A0 Or, any dif= ference could be made up by trimming down the spline on the damper plate or= removing or adding spacers between the two.

So in my mind, a flywheel is the way to go.=A0 Stout, easy to get, pick= your weight, only mods seem to be drilling the mounting holes and welding = on a second gear ring.

--
David Leonard

Turbo Rotary RV-6= N4VY
http://N4VY.RotaryRoster.net
http://RotaryRoster.net



<= /div>



<= br>











--bcaec52be6afa1b6e704a862f568--