X-Virus-Scanned: clean according to Sophos on Logan.com Return-Path: Received: from nm2.access.bullet.mail.sp2.yahoo.com ([98.139.44.129] verified) by logan.com (CommuniGate Pro SMTP 5.4.0) with SMTP id 5056009 for flyrotary@lancaironline.net; Mon, 18 Jul 2011 19:50:05 -0400 Received-SPF: none receiver=logan.com; client-ip=98.139.44.129; envelope-from=keltro@att.net Received: from [98.139.44.105] by nm2.access.bullet.mail.sp2.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 18 Jul 2011 23:49:28 -0000 Received: from [98.139.44.88] by tm10.access.bullet.mail.sp2.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 18 Jul 2011 23:49:28 -0000 Received: from [127.0.0.1] by omp1025.access.mail.sp2.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 18 Jul 2011 23:49:28 -0000 X-Yahoo-Newman-Property: ymail-3 X-Yahoo-Newman-Id: 750325.1255.bm@omp1025.access.mail.sp2.yahoo.com Received: (qmail 77234 invoked by uid 60001); 18 Jul 2011 23:49:28 -0000 DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=att.net; s=s1024; t=1311032968; bh=SwqRnhB0x4k71k7N2sbCq2Elu3coqQtHsBqzfi5Eac8=; h=X-YMail-OSG:Received:X-Mailer:References:Message-ID:Date:From:Reply-To:Subject:To:In-Reply-To:MIME-Version:Content-Type; b=mxcOOHww0eUbJnDtInehaCF1B+neE7ClXl0UWFC06JgYWO74QROknt/CPCQnveG8b27qNVxeS0E6+s8lLvkXpVqgF09tIWkIzQQGlt1rAQBj2OR539Wff6j+QYWKZHwwUCLPAX49Tp1UdbUXiuu/JvdeMB/M2UZqnmtoT+rmhtI= DomainKey-Signature:a=rsa-sha1; q=dns; c=nofws; s=s1024; d=att.net; h=X-YMail-OSG:Received:X-Mailer:References:Message-ID:Date:From:Reply-To:Subject:To:In-Reply-To:MIME-Version:Content-Type; b=cJBVeaxkE37YYB/1yNPgUf0wSTO6UDmJIxzx1dadjmD1RfYkpEInQhNz5AsuFd6zDoQwHm44n+Nj5nrE7nQmr0cNBoj5XtgasEGAc9HwkticBtUAJcpnEmfifWoxEcia4vzl5IRvTzNiWPD8cNW2TLRLmdrzYLtplTHufXZXFrs=; X-YMail-OSG: 0N.UQUsVM1nAE8PYRxg1GDKI1mtPBSfSGfjknNaYl943xdH HHM2vbBZ861pr205xzqXJLt.pB2jfJXafwzPLxOkQlxvvKZxn2y6hrIXUC4h SFPIid0OdodmE.eUJNMsTe_Xa9WGqMI475Ezut.841Zi5QK_BklI9vvwE6bl qC7.QwKplfCh_T62HUgpM45ofrdEQD_WS.KnVQQGec9N5GGUbfAXfjCFkOUg u0jwMxVEjr3ifk53EZQiaDbOiB9tQ8nUaxVl6UQusMOelf2ljHfdTh3rICqC 2tbALUlcIF2T1wY1uTaKYD52JxQ0VMWYV2rehRQZaT7K2AeBKMW5U.uMGAVW hMCuH729LAoWuYv3b5iA2LYeIOgvqzlGfbX_1ZXRFRNDqDoOH.WzxduBLygE ooFND0bNsJZAp.CYjvvTy7LjP29D7sGkga59TpkC_QGomEWLcFHptryFGjcZ sLFhZrey7nk.Obso7Gl2kqqzTmL4t6.4X8xT5HEbmu4ZddZuftas11RmW9Jf _p6TuZy6VtoA5m4jOjjZZ_6G4qbx1MiMpQrXFZr9Sq__5dN5YRjWdv9nOLwi .NPjC5zjHWkudACgc3OV3lSgioMXqZFeBLuAskkr06j4xsw2YKUuJuIr1t74 fxNOHpsQyySl6a64ANT9eTHHv34pYm8LIhM5mxQpOTr9lFYtNVH6z0hyGzqi SIPO7jTd98gg- Received: from [208.114.39.18] by web83913.mail.sp1.yahoo.com via HTTP; Mon, 18 Jul 2011 16:49:28 PDT X-Mailer: YahooMailWebService/0.8.112.307740 References: Message-ID: <1311032968.59414.YahooMailNeo@web83913.mail.sp1.yahoo.com> Date: Mon, 18 Jul 2011 16:49:28 -0700 (PDT) From: Kelly Troyer Reply-To: Kelly Troyer Subject: Ok Here are the important flywheel measurements To: Rotary motors in aircraft In-Reply-To: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="0-7843066-1311032968=:59414" --0-7843066-1311032968=:59414 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Dave,=0A=A0=0A=A0=A0 Forgot to add that there are 3 clutch pressure plate l= ocating dowels in the flywheel.........You=0Awill have to knock these out w= ith a punch as their position will not let you properly center the =0ARD1X = drive plate and will not let the drive plate "Float" properly..............= I have not come up =0Awith a method yet to center the drive plate with the = absolute accuracy needed=A0for drilling the=0Aflywheel for the drive plate = attach bolts...........Maybe some of the group with more=A0machinists=0Aski= lls than I can make a recommendation=A0!!..................Also the rear of= the attach bolt holes=0Awill need to be spotfaced to provide a flat surfac= e for the bolt head or nut and washer=A0 from=0Awhat I have observed on the= backside of my flywheel........................<:)=A0=A0=0A=0AKelly Troyer= =0A"DYKE DELTA JD2" (Eventually)=0A"13B ROTARY"_ Engine=0A"RWS"_RD1C/EC2/EM= 2=0A"MISTRAL"_Backplate/Oil Manifold=0A"TURBONETICS"_TO4E50 Turbo=0A=0AFrom= : Kelly Troyer =0ATo: Rotary motors in aircraft =0ASent: Monday, July 18, 2011 6:29 PM=0ASubject: [FlyRot= ary] Ok Here are the important flywheel measurements=0A=0A=0ADave,=0A=A0=A0= The link attached shows the prolite version (9.8 lbs) on the left in the p= hoto.............Do you have=A0your starter flange=0Ato gear measurement=A0= handy as my RD1X starter=A0(not the turbo model)=A0is 55 miles away at the = moment...........=A0=0A=A0http://www2.advancedclutch.com/products/xact_flyw= heels.aspx=0A=0AKelly Troyer=0A"DYKE DELTA JD2" (Eventually)=0A"13B ROTARY"= _ Engine=0A"RWS"_RD1C/EC2/EM2=0A"MISTRAL"_Backplate/Oil Manifold=0A"TURBONE= TICS"_TO4E50 Turbo=0A=0AFrom: David Leonard =0ATo: Rot= ary motors in aircraft =0ASent: Monday, July 1= 8, 2011 6:18 PM=0ASubject: [FlyRotary] Re: Ok Here are the important flywhe= el measurements=0A=0A=0AOK Kelly,=0A=0AThanks to all your hard work and res= earch, I have ordered up the Prolite 9.8 lb version of this.=A0 Decided tha= t I was done with the flex plates.=A0 Thanks for locating a great price.=A0= I am a little nervous that the picture does not look right, but I guess I = can always return it.=0ALike you, I figure we will solve the starter issue = one way or another.=0A=0A-- =0ADavid Leonard=0A=0ATurbo Rotary RV-6 N4VY=0A= http://N4VY.RotaryRoster.net=0Ahttp://RotaryRoster.net=0A=0A=0A=0AOn Sat, J= ul 16, 2011 at 2:21 PM, Kelly Troyer wrote:=0A=0ADave and = All,=0A>=A0=0A>=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0 Ok Dave the "ACT" "Streetlite" 1= 3.8 lb flywheel was just delivered and I am in process of taking=0A>your me= asurements to see where we stand................This flywheel is a thing of= beauty (to a RotorHead)=0A>and my RD1C drive plate will bolt to it with no= problem (through drill and spotface the rear of the flywheel=0A>because it= has a slight taper in that area).............I just have to verify just wh= ere the RD1C drive splines =0A>will be positioned (fore and aft) on the inp= ut shaft compared to the RX7 flexplate.............The clutch plate=0A>fric= tion area is slightly raised (about 0.065) above the clutch mount area and = I would probably take it=0A>down tto the clutch level (probably not necessa= ry but would reduce weight slightly.............I have a 93-95=0A>Turbo sta= rter on the way (should take care of starter mesh problem)..............If = you are interested I can=0A>guide you to another 93-95 starter (used $49.00= with/shipping) if it is still for sale.............=0A>=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0= =A0 One other thing at this time..............The lighter 9.8 lb version ma= y be usable but it is listed as 116=0A>ring gear teeth and I have not found= out what its diameter is and what starter would be used with it......=0A>= =A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0 I suspect it may be the diameter of the NA 13B flywhe= els and may use the 86-91=A0NA manual trans=0A>starter............You need = to talk to the manufacturer..........They are in Lancaster, Calif..........= ..The 9.8 lb=0A>version is a little more expensive due to more extensive ma= chine work to reduce weight.............See the=0A>link below............Th= e link to THMotorsports has the best price I have found on the 9.8 lb flywh= eel......The=0A>photo on their page is not the Rotary 9.8 lb version.......= ....=A0=0A>=A0=0A>http://www2.advancedclutch.com/products/xact_flywheels.as= px=0A>=A0=0A>=A0=0A>http://thmotorsports.com/act/act_flywheel_prolite/60014= 0/i-47718.aspx=0A>=0A>Kelly Troyer=0A>"DYKE DELTA JD2" (Eventually)=0A>"13B= ROTARY"_ Engine=0A>"RWS"_RD1C/EC2/EM2=0A>"MISTRAL"_Backplate/Oil Manifold= =0A>"TURBONETICS"_TO4E50 Turbo=0A>=0A>=0A>From: Kelly Troyer =0A>To: Rotary motors in aircraft =0A>Sent: = Friday, July 15, 2011 12:34 PM=0A>Subject: [FlyRotary] Re: Ok Here are the = important flywheel measurements=0A>=0A>=0A>Dave and All,=0A>=A0=0A>=A0=A0= =A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0 Sounds encourageing...............Replacing the starter = with turbo model would seem to be=0A>least expensive and safer than adding = additional ring gear + welding..............I also echo what=0A>Bill and Bo= bby have said concerning the Al Wick fix and getting Tracy's thoughts about= cause=0A>of problem and perhaps need for periodic inspection and/or rubber= =A0isolator replacement........=A0=0A>=0A>Kelly Troyer=0A>"DYKE DELTA JD2" = (Eventually)=0A>"13B ROTARY"_ Engine=0A>"RWS"_RD1C/EC2/EM2=0A>"MISTRAL"_Bac= kplate/Oil Manifold=0A>"TURBONETICS"_TO4E50 Turbo=0A>=0A>=0A>From: David Le= onard =0A>To: Rotary motors in aircraft =0A>Sent: Thursday, July 14, 2011 11:41 PM=0A>Subject: [FlyR= otary] Ok Here are the important flywheel measurements=0A>=0A>=0A>I finally= got to the hangar and measured out my S5 turbo flywheel and the remains of= my S5 flexplate.=A0 The results are very encouraging, even as good as the = possibly could be to make the swap, but I only had ten min at the hangar be= fore I had to leave to pick up my daughter from daycare, so they are one tr= y and slightly sloppy... I make no guarantees.=A0 The height measurements o= f the flex plate were particularly suspect because, well, mine is all warpe= d and broken.=0A>=0A>Ring Gear Diameter - Perfect fit.=A0 As we suspected, = same size, same tooth spacing.=0A>=0A>Ring Gear Fore-Aft Placement - As mea= sured from the underside of the big nut. (for all further reference, aft me= ans aft in the CAR).=A0 The flex plate puts the aft side of the ring gear 1= .290 inches from the front of the big nut. The flywheel puts it 0.913.=A0 S= o the flex plate puts the ring gear (appx) 0.377 in. further aft.=A0 This i= s actually fortuitous because it just so happens that the ring gear thickne= ss is .365 ...=A0=A0=A0 So all we have to do to fix the discrepancy is weld= and extra ring gears onto to the flywheel ring gear and there will be teet= h that the starter can reach:(bottom of the page.. the cost $80)=0A>http://= mazdatrix.com/flywheel.htm=0A>It may also be possible to fix the discrepanc= y by changing the starter... will look into that.=0A>=0A>Damper Plate Place= ment - On the flywheel, the mounting surface is proud (or aft) of the ring = gear.=A0 On the flex plate, the mounting surface is recessed (or forward) f= rom the ring gear. A=0A>nd it all pretty much works out.=A0 That position o= n the flywheel will vary somewhat depending on which flywheel you have and = how much wear you have on the clutch slip surface. But on my (I assume well= -worn) flywheel the placement was 0.965 while the flex plate was 0.950.=A0 = Pretty damn close and given measurement error it might me meant to be right= on.=A0 Or, any difference could be made up by trimming down the spline on = the damper plate or removing or adding spacers between the two.=0A>=0A>So i= n my mind, a flywheel is the way to go.=A0 Stout, easy to get, pick your we= ight, only mods seem to be drilling the mounting holes and welding on a sec= ond gear ring.=0A>=0A>-- =0A>David Leonard=0A>=0A>Turbo Rotary RV-6 N4VY=0A= >http://N4VY.RotaryRoster.net=0A>http://RotaryRoster.net=0A>=0A>=0A>=0A>=0A= > --0-7843066-1311032968=:59414 Content-Type: text/html; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
Dave,
 
   Forgot = to add that there are 3 clutch pressure plate locating dowels in the flywhe= el.........You
will have to knock t= hese out with a punch as their position will not let you properly center th= e
RD1X drive plate and= will not let the drive plate "Float" properly..............I have not come= up
with a method yet to= center the drive plate with the absolute accuracy needed for drilling= the
flywheel for the dri= ve plate attach bolts...........Maybe some of the group with more machinists
skills than I can ma= ke a will need to be s= potfaced to provide a flat surface for the bolt head or nut and wash= er  from
what I have observed on the backside of= my flywheel........................<:)  =
 
Kelly Troyer
"DYKE DELTA JD2" (Eventually)
"13B ROTARY"_ Engine
"R= WS"_RD1C/EC2/EM2
"MISTRAL"_Backplate/Oil Manifold
"TURBONETICS= "_TO4E50 Turbo

From:= Kelly Troyer <keltro@att.net>
To: Rotary motors in aircraft <flyrotary@lancair= online.net>
Sent: Mon= day, July 18, 2011 6:29 PM
Subject:= [FlyRotary] Ok Here are the important flywheel measurements

Dave,
   The link attached shows the = prolite version (9.8 lbs) on the left i= n the photo.............Do you have your starter flange
to gear measurement handy as my RD1X starter (not the = turbo model) is 55 miles aw= ay at the moment........... 
 
 
Kelly Troyer
"DYKE DELTA JD2" (Eventually)=
"13B ROTARY"_ Engine
"RWS"_RD1C/EC2/EM2
"MISTRAL"_Backplate/Oil Manifold
"TURBONETICS"_TO4E50 Turbo

From: David Leonard <w= dleonard@gmail.com>
To: Rotary motors in aircraft <flyrotary@lancaironline.net>
Sent: Monday, July 18, 2011 6:18 P= M
Subject: [FlyRotary] R= e: Ok Here are = the important flywheel measurements

OK Kelly,
 
Thanks to all your hard work and research, I have ordered up the Prolite 9.8 lb versi= on of this.  Decided that I was done with the flex plates.  Thank= s for locating a great price.  I am a little nervous that the picture = does not look right, but I guess I can always return it.
Like you, I figure we will solve the starter issue one way or another.=
 
--
David Leonard

Turbo Rotary RV-6 N4VY
http://N4VY.RotaryRoster.net<= BR>http= ://RotaryRoster.net


On Sat, Jul 16,= 2011 at 2:21 PM, Kelly Troyer <= keltro@att.net> wrote:
Dave and All,
 
          Ok Dave the "ACT" "Streetlite" 13.8 lb= flywheel was just delivered and I am in process of taking
your measurements to see where we stand................This flyw= heel is a thing of beauty (to a RotorHead)
and my RD1C drive plate will bolt to it with no problem (through= drill and spotface the rear of the flywheel
because it has a slight taper in that area).............I just h= ave to verify just where the RD1C drive splines
will be positioned (fore and aft) on the input shaft compared to= the RX7 flexplate.............The clutch plate
friction area is slightly raised (about 0.065) above the clutch = mount area and I would probably take it
down tto the clutch level (probably not necessary but would reduce weight sligh= tly.............I have a 93-95
Turbo starter on the way (should take care of starter mesh probl= em)..............If you are interested I can
guide you to another 93-95 starter (used $49.00 with/shipping) i= f it is still for sale.............
        One other thing at th= is time..............The lighter 9.8 lb version may be usable but it is lis= ted as 116
ring gear teeth and I have not found out what its diameter is an= d what starter would be used with it......
        I suspect it may be t= he diameter of the NA 13B flywheels and may use the 86-91 NA manual tr= ans
starter............You need to talk to the manufacturer.........= .They are in Lancaster, Calif............The 9.8 lb
version is a little more expensive due to more extensive machine= work to reduce weight.............See the
link below............The link to THMotorsports has the best price I have found= on the 9.8 lb flywheel......The
photo on their page is not the Rotary 9.8 lb version...........&= nbsp;
 
 
 
 
Kelly Troyer
"DYKE DELTA JD2" (Eventually)=
"13B ROTARY"_ Engine
"RWS"_RD1C/EC2/EM2
"MISTRAL"_Backplate/Oil Manifold
"TURBONETICS"_TO4E50 Turbo

From: Kelly Troyer <keltro@att.net>
To:= Rotary motors in aircraft <flyrotary@lancaironline.net>
Sent: Friday, July 15, 2011 12:34 PM
Subject: [FlyRotary] Re: Ok Here are the important flyw= heel measurements

Dave and All,
 
         Sounds encourageing...........= ....Replacing the starter with turbo model would seem to be
least expensive and safer than adding additional ring gear + wel= ding..............I also echo what
Bill and Bobby have said concerning the Al Wick fix and getting = Tracy's thoughts about cause
of problem and perhaps need for periodic inspection and/or rubbe= r isolator replacement........ 
 
Kelly Troyer
"DYKE DELTA JD2" (Eventually)=
"13B ROTARY"_ Engine
"RWS"_RD1C/EC2/EM2
"MISTRAL"_Backplate/Oil Manifold
"TURBONETICS"_TO4E50 Turbo

From: David Leonard <wdleonard@gmail.com>
To: Rotary motors in aircraft <flyrotary@lancaironline.net>
Sent: Thursday, July 14, 2011 11:41 P= M
Subject: [FlyRotary] <= SPAN id=3Dmisspell-43>Ok Here are the = important flywheel measurements

I finally got to the hangar and measured out my = S5 turbo flywheel and the remains of my S5 flexplate.  The results are very encourag= ing, even as good as the possibly could be to make the swap, but I only had= ten min at the hangar before I had to leave to pick up my daughter from da= ycare, so they are one try and slightly sloppy... I make no guarantees.&nbs= p; The height measurements of the flex plate were particularly suspect beca= use, well, mine is all warped and broken.

Ring Gear Diameter = - Perfect fit.  As we suspected, same size, same tooth spacing.
Ring Gear Fore-Aft Placement - As measured from the underside of th= e big nut. (for all further reference, aft means aft in the CAR).  The= flex plate puts the aft side of the ring gear 1.290 inches from the front = of the big nut. The flywheel puts it 0.913.  So the flex plate puts the ring gear (appx) 0.377 in. further aft.  This is actually fortuitous because it = just so happens that the ring gear thickness is .365 ...    = So all we have to do to fix the discrepancy is weld and extra ring gears on= to to the flywheel ring gear and there will be teeth that the starter can r= each:(bottom of the page.. the cost $80)
http://mazdatrix.com/flywheel= .htm
It may also be possible to fix the discrepancy by changing the = starter... will look into that.

Damper Plate Placement - On t= he flywheel, the mounting surface is proud (or aft) of the ring gear. = On the flex plate, the mounting surface is recessed (or forward) from the = ring gear. A
nd it all pretty much works out.  That posi= tion on the flywheel will vary somewhat depending on which flywheel you hav= e and how much wear you have on the clutch slip surface. But on my (I assum= e well-worn) flywheel the placement was 0.965 while the flex plate was 0.95= 0.  Pretty damn close and given measurement error it might me meant to= be right on.  Or, any difference could be made up by trimming down th= e spline on the damper plate or removing or adding spacers between the two.=

So in my mind, a flywheel is the way to go.  Stout, easy to ge= t, pick your weight, only mods seem to be drilling the mounting holes and w= elding on a second gear ring.

--
David Leonard

Turbo Rota= ry RV-6 N4VYh= ttp://N4VY.RotaryRoster.net
http://RotaryRoster.net






<= /DIV>



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