X-Virus-Scanned: clean according to Sophos on Logan.com Return-Path: Received: from nm24-vm0.access.bullet.mail.sp2.yahoo.com ([98.139.44.182] verified) by logan.com (CommuniGate Pro SMTP 5.4.0) with SMTP id 5055990 for flyrotary@lancaironline.net; Mon, 18 Jul 2011 19:29:39 -0400 Received-SPF: none receiver=logan.com; client-ip=98.139.44.182; envelope-from=keltro@att.net Received: from [98.139.44.98] by nm24.access.bullet.mail.sp2.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 18 Jul 2011 23:29:02 -0000 Received: from [98.139.44.76] by tm3.access.bullet.mail.sp2.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 18 Jul 2011 23:29:02 -0000 Received: from [127.0.0.1] by omp1013.access.mail.sp2.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 18 Jul 2011 23:29:02 -0000 X-Yahoo-Newman-Property: ymail-3 X-Yahoo-Newman-Id: 465511.49629.bm@omp1013.access.mail.sp2.yahoo.com Received: (qmail 71801 invoked by uid 60001); 18 Jul 2011 23:29:02 -0000 DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=att.net; s=s1024; t=1311031742; bh=RtROdhkG52o0Af0JUcxUxM3Bj03yHKAW2Bo25ZpKkzw=; h=X-YMail-OSG:Received:X-Mailer:References:Message-ID:Date:From:Reply-To:Subject:To:In-Reply-To:MIME-Version:Content-Type; b=tX28ltes54YgK0VrOaaL6AZzVm9La88xZrwOlIXAFV4NRcDaFUJNiNaBI4m9DOQ62hSWCFVkAKYApFRAcNNC0cnEoSi5NSYkDd8ugzypcb3DWQQM9kbacs0wJBLgYEY+vn0yuxtpe2odxnVBdbXGM1teWcnNM+xZKIAq2nPxEks= DomainKey-Signature:a=rsa-sha1; q=dns; c=nofws; s=s1024; d=att.net; h=X-YMail-OSG:Received:X-Mailer:References:Message-ID:Date:From:Reply-To:Subject:To:In-Reply-To:MIME-Version:Content-Type; b=n4mD2UqC6QlQY4LalbIt4SGLBtn9kuYa+g64HfTnS4rVWUneBq7Jv/2S0RnSy+/sMsTAzq/o9v+TNslYwWl5Tj1H4s8wE65fXwPRQqB0eOxQvauYuSkhKWcXTxWBlp9xOeBMROB0lmPBcaqNlURIURWOPIUdueb5bCERekOtUrc=; X-YMail-OSG: BKVrM5QVM1lzzAwa31zmeCliP1ZlQFkNkdxNdMw9_eOCulv 3mJp_EAW8Neau9HQsbksO_jUr.Pz9qRHfvMuQxA5BvC8LaH8iFuneOyE04T0 2mX7ruab2OyjutMahL9Pf_At8cCfp79wkSB24YeHmnZlTFA7__rqG.L5kPJn eFWs8xBqt7IIudIuZX_BH_UdqGv888ihk.84mHkk_E.xFpyhZL6_6tut4SyA 4LK4Hhxqr5puA58owfh8.W5l6J7XydMIIa5MkBbvpqCogU9SX2FnheE0PP4R X9HIUxkYDvNl47tuzpTitl67wZm5VyJ62JMmP.ri8vF6waMQkLgXz_Af.wHE vE30zHq6N9J7XcOXCEcwjkBPMCYEg4i2jA1IpNhRW1_l8gIdpMPq8HCyn5FO p_JW0sv3y7MfhfuX_kkCpO5KEg2zT34xSR7Hy1inVBVw8uGxSTX5nZjCBeUU .iojwVy2w4GA6zhRMuTEwfoAMC.OEkag1wxnsywiw3dA4KnFWEb7HSP6w_Qf sMUHsXqD_4CTQUAFQGLuYU0m9v.A0sI2cIWI_lLN2PONBRSsiVlDVAuVEV7R nxcjjG67gnsk6nQi5AA_7YnH.5IeLioVrofg1JXE5fCtIueTW.6MRHJAG.X8 uJmDy48fmKczjf6Bzd0sR5UnV4t_APQ5bkTkcPgbkjL6ehm_KLsHkYJFyU8l ozQ7n5vHYM10- Received: from [208.114.39.18] by web83916.mail.sp1.yahoo.com via HTTP; Mon, 18 Jul 2011 16:29:01 PDT X-Mailer: YahooMailWebService/0.8.112.307740 References: Message-ID: <1311031741.43979.YahooMailNeo@web83916.mail.sp1.yahoo.com> Date: Mon, 18 Jul 2011 16:29:01 -0700 (PDT) From: Kelly Troyer Reply-To: Kelly Troyer Subject: Ok Here are the important flywheel measurements To: Rotary motors in aircraft In-Reply-To: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="0-1579486211-1311031741=:43979" --0-1579486211-1311031741=:43979 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Dave,=0A=A0=A0 The link attached shows the prolite version (9.8 lbs) on the= left in the photo.............Do you have=A0your starter flange=0Ato gear = measurement=A0handy as my RD1X starter=A0(not the turbo model)=A0is 55 mile= s away at the moment...........=A0=0A=A0http://www2.advancedclutch.com/prod= ucts/xact_flywheels.aspx=0A=0AKelly Troyer=0A"DYKE DELTA JD2" (Eventually)= =0A"13B ROTARY"_ Engine=0A"RWS"_RD1C/EC2/EM2=0A"MISTRAL"_Backplate/Oil Mani= fold=0A"TURBONETICS"_TO4E50 Turbo=0A=0AFrom: David Leonard =0ATo: Rotary motors in aircraft =0ASent:= Monday, July 18, 2011 6:18 PM=0ASubject: [FlyRotary] Re: Ok Here are the i= mportant flywheel measurements=0A=0A=0AOK Kelly,=0A=0AThanks to all your ha= rd work and research, I have ordered up the Prolite 9.8 lb version of this.= =A0 Decided that I was done with the flex plates.=A0 Thanks for locating a = great price.=A0 I am a little nervous that the picture does not look right,= but I guess I can always return it.=0ALike you, I figure we will solve the= starter issue one way or another.=0A=0A-- =0ADavid Leonard=0A=0ATurbo Rota= ry RV-6 N4VY=0Ahttp://N4VY.RotaryRoster.net=0Ahttp://RotaryRoster.net=0A=0A= =0A=0AOn Sat, Jul 16, 2011 at 2:21 PM, Kelly Troyer wrote:= =0A=0ADave and All,=0A>=A0=0A>=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0 Ok Dave the "ACT"= "Streetlite" 13.8 lb flywheel was just delivered and I am in process of ta= king=0A>your measurements to see where we stand................This flywhee= l is a thing of beauty (to a RotorHead)=0A>and my RD1C drive plate will bol= t to it with no problem (through drill and spotface the rear of the flywhee= l=0A>because it has a slight taper in that area).............I just have to= verify just where the RD1C drive splines =0A>will be positioned (fore and = aft) on the input shaft compared to the RX7 flexplate.............The clutc= h plate=0A>friction area is slightly raised (about 0.065) above the clutch = mount area and I would probably take it=0A>down tto the clutch level (proba= bly not necessary but would reduce weight slightly.............I have a 93-= 95=0A>Turbo starter on the way (should take care of starter mesh problem)..= ............If you are interested I can=0A>guide you to another 93-95 start= er (used $49.00 with/shipping) if it is still for sale.............=0A>=A0= =A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0 One other thing at this time..............The lighter 9.= 8 lb version may be usable but it is listed as 116=0A>ring gear teeth and I= have not found out what its diameter is and what starter would be used wit= h it......=0A>=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0 I suspect it may be the diameter of the= NA 13B flywheels and may use the 86-91=A0NA manual trans=0A>starter.......= .....You need to talk to the manufacturer..........They are in Lancaster, C= alif............The 9.8 lb=0A>version is a little more expensive due to mor= e extensive machine work to reduce weight.............See the=0A>link below= ............The link to THMotorsports has the best price I have found on th= e 9.8 lb flywheel......The=0A>photo on their page is not the Rotary 9.8 lb = version...........=A0=0A>=A0=0A>http://www2.advancedclutch.com/products/xac= t_flywheels.aspx=0A>=A0=0A>=A0=0A>http://thmotorsports.com/act/act_flywheel= _prolite/600140/i-47718.aspx=0A>=0A>Kelly Troyer=0A>"DYKE DELTA JD2" (Event= ually)=0A>"13B ROTARY"_ Engine=0A>"RWS"_RD1C/EC2/EM2=0A>"MISTRAL"_Backplate= /Oil Manifold=0A>"TURBONETICS"_TO4E50 Turbo=0A>=0A>=0A>From: Kelly Troyer <= keltro@att.net>=0A>To: Rotary motors in aircraft =0A>Sent: Friday, July 15, 2011 12:34 PM=0A>Subject: [FlyRotary] Re: Ok = Here are the important flywheel measurements=0A>=0A>=0A>Dave and All,=0A>= =A0=0A>=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0 Sounds encourageing...............Replacing= the starter with turbo model would seem to be=0A>least expensive and safer= than adding additional ring gear + welding..............I also echo what= =0A>Bill and Bobby have said concerning the Al Wick fix and getting Tracy's= thoughts about cause=0A>of problem and perhaps need for periodic inspectio= n and/or rubber=A0isolator replacement........=A0=0A>=0A>Kelly Troyer=0A>"D= YKE DELTA JD2" (Eventually)=0A>"13B ROTARY"_ Engine=0A>"RWS"_RD1C/EC2/EM2= =0A>"MISTRAL"_Backplate/Oil Manifold=0A>"TURBONETICS"_TO4E50 Turbo=0A>=0A>= =0A>From: David Leonard =0A>To: Rotary motors in aircr= aft =0A>Sent: Thursday, July 14, 2011 11:41 PM= =0A>Subject: [FlyRotary] Ok Here are the important flywheel measurements=0A= >=0A>=0A>I finally got to the hangar and measured out my S5 turbo flywheel = and the remains of my S5 flexplate.=A0 The results are very encouraging, ev= en as good as the possibly could be to make the swap, but I only had ten mi= n at the hangar before I had to leave to pick up my daughter from daycare, = so they are one try and slightly sloppy... I make no guarantees.=A0 The hei= ght measurements of the flex plate were particularly suspect because, well,= mine is all warped and broken.=0A>=0A>Ring Gear Diameter - Perfect fit.=A0= As we suspected, same size, same tooth spacing.=0A>=0A>Ring Gear Fore-Aft = Placement - As measured from the underside of the big nut. (for all further= reference, aft means aft in the CAR).=A0 The flex plate puts the aft side = of the ring gear 1.290 inches from the front of the big nut. The flywheel p= uts it 0.913.=A0 So the flex plate puts the ring gear (appx) 0.377 in. furt= her aft.=A0 This is actually fortuitous because it just so happens that the= ring gear thickness is .365 ...=A0=A0=A0 So all we have to do to fix the d= iscrepancy is weld and extra ring gears onto to the flywheel ring gear and = there will be teeth that the starter can reach:(bottom of the page.. the co= st $80)=0A>http://mazdatrix.com/flywheel.htm=0A>It may also be possible to = fix the discrepancy by changing the starter... will look into that.=0A>=0A>= Damper Plate Placement - On the flywheel, the mounting surface is proud (or= aft) of the ring gear.=A0 On the flex plate, the mounting surface is reces= sed (or forward) from the ring gear. And it all pretty much works out.=A0 T= hat position on the flywheel will vary somewhat depending on which flywheel= you have and how much wear you have on the clutch slip surface. But on my = (I assume well-worn) flywheel the placement was 0.965 while the flex plate = was 0.950.=A0 Pretty damn close and given measurement error it might me mea= nt to be right on.=A0 Or, any difference could be made up by trimming down = the spline on the damper plate or removing or adding spacers between the tw= o.=0A>=0A>So in my mind, a flywheel is the way to go.=A0 Stout, easy to get= , pick your weight, only mods seem to be drilling the mounting holes and we= lding on a second gear ring.=0A>=0A>-- =0A>David Leonard=0A>=0A>Turbo Rotar= y RV-6 N4VY=0A>http://N4VY.RotaryRoster.net=0A>http://RotaryRoster.net=0A>= =0A>=0A>=0A>=0A> --0-1579486211-1311031741=:43979 Content-Type: text/html; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
Dave,
   The lin= k attached shows the prolite version (9.8 lbs) on the left in the photo....= .........Do you have your starter flange
to gear measurement&= nbsp;handy as my RD1X starter (not the turbo model) is 55 miles away at the moment........... 
 
<= SPAN style=3D"RIGHT: auto">
 
Kelly Troyer
"DYKE DELTA JD2" (Eventually)
"13B ROTARY"_ Engine
"RWS"_RD1C/EC2/EM2
"MISTRAL"_Backplate/Oil = Manifold
"TURBONETICS"_TO4E50 Turbo

From:= David Leonard <wdleonard@gmail.com>
To: Rotary motors in aircraft <flyrotary@l= ancaironline.net>
Sent: Monday, July 18, 2011 6:18 PM
Su= bject: [FlyRotary] Re: Ok Here are the important flywheel measur= ements

OK Kelly,
 
Thanks to all your hard work and research, I have ordered up the Proli= te 9.8 lb version of this.  Decided that I was done with the flex plat= es.  Thanks for locating a great price.  I am a little nervous th= at the picture does not look right, but I guess I can always return it.
Like you, I figure we will solve the starter issue one way or another.=
 
--
David Leonard

Turbo Rotary RV-6 N4VY
http://N4VY.Rotary= Roster.net
http://RotaryRoster.net


On Sat, Jul 16, = 2011 at 2:21 PM, Kelly Troyer <k= eltro@att.net> wrote:
Dave and All,
 
          Ok Dave t= he "ACT" "Streetlite" 13.8 lb flywheel was just delivered and I am in proce= ss of taking
your measurements to see where we stand................This flyw= heel is a thing of beauty (to a RotorHead)
and my RD1C drive plate will bolt to it with no problem (through= drill and spotface the rear of the flywheel
because it has a slight taper in that area).............I just h= ave to verify just where the RD1C drive splines
will be positioned (fore and aft) on the input shaft compared to= the RX7 flexplate.............The clutch plate
friction area is slightly raised (about 0.065) above the clutch = mount area and I would probably take it
down tto the clutch level (probably not necessary but would redu= ce weight slightly.............I have a 93-95
Turbo starter on the way (should take care of starter mesh probl= em)..............If you are interested I can
guide you to another 93-95 starter (used $49.00 with/shipping) i= f it is still for sale.............
        One other thing at th= is time..............The lighter 9.8 lb version may be usable but it is lis= ted as 116
ring gear teeth and I have not found out what its diameter is an= d what starter would be used with it......
        I suspect it may be t= he diameter of the NA 13B flywheels and may use the 86-91 NA manual tr= ans
starter............You need to talk to the manufacturer.........= .They are in Lancaster, Calif............The 9.8 lb
version is a little more expensive due to more extensive machine= work to reduce weight.............See the
link below............The link to THMotorsports has the best pri= ce I have found on the 9.8 lb flywheel......The
photo on their page is not the Rotary 9.8 lb version...........&= nbsp;
 
 
 
 
Kelly Troyer
"DYKE DELTA JD= 2" (Eventually)
"13B ROTARY"_ Engine
"RWS"_RD1C/EC2/EM2
"MISTRAL"_Backplate/Oil = Manifold
"TURBONETICS"_TO4E50 Turbo

From: Kelly Troyer <keltro@att.net>
To:= Rotary motors in aircraft <flyrotary@lancaironline.net>
Sent: Friday, July 15, 2011 12:34 PM
Subject: [FlyRotary] Re: Ok Here are the= important flywheel measurements

Dave and All,
 
         Sounds encourag= eing...............Replacing the starter with turbo model would seem to be<= /SPAN>
least expensive and safer than adding additional ring gear + wel= ding..............I also echo what
Bill and Bobby have said concerning the Al Wick fix and getting = Tracy's thoughts about cause
of problem and perhaps need for periodic inspection and/or rubbe= r isolator replacement........ 
 
Kelly Troyer
"DYKE DELTA JD2" (Eventually)
"13B ROTARY"_ Engine
"RWS"_RD1C/EC2/EM2
"MISTRAL"_Backplate/Oil = Manifold
"TURBONETICS"_TO4E50 Turbo

From: David Leonard <wdleonard@gmail.com>
To: Rotary motors in aircraft <flyrotary@lancaironline.net>
Sent: Thursday, July 14, 2011 11:41 P= M
Subject: [FlyRotary] O= k Here are the important flywheel measurements

I finally got to the hangar and measured out my S5 turbo flywheel and = the remains of my S5 flexplate.  The results are very encouraging, eve= n as good as the possibly could be to make the swap, but I only had ten min= at the hangar before I had to leave to pick up my daughter from daycare, s= o they are one try and slightly sloppy... I make no guarantees.  The h= eight measurements of the flex plate were particularly suspect because, wel= l, mine is all warped and broken.

Ring Gear Diameter - Perfec= t fit.  As we suspected, same size, same tooth spacing.

Ring= Gear Fore-Aft Placement - As measured from the underside of the big nu= t. (for all further reference, aft means aft in the CAR).  The flex pl= ate puts the aft side of the ring gear 1.290 inches from the front of the b= ig nut. The flywheel puts it 0.913.  So the flex plate puts the ring g= ear (appx) 0.377 in. further aft.  This is actually fortuitous because it just so happens that the ring gear thickness is .365 ... &= nbsp;  So all we have to do to fix the discrepancy is weld and extra r= ing gears onto to the flywheel ring gear and there will be teeth that the s= tarter can reach:(bottom of the page.. the cost $80)
http://mazdatrix.= com/flywheel.htm
It may also be possible to fix the discrepancy by c= hanging the starter... will look into that.

Damper Plate Placemen= t - On the flywheel, the mounting surface is proud (or aft) of the ring= gear.  On the flex plate, the mounting surface is recessed (or forwar= d) from the ring gear. And it all pretty much works out.  That positio= n on the flywheel will vary somewhat depending on which flywheel you have a= nd how much wear you have on the clutch slip surface. But on my (I assume w= ell-worn) flywheel the placement was 0.965 while the flex plate was 0.950.  Pretty damn close and given measurement error it might me mea= nt to be right on.  Or, any difference could be made up by trimming do= wn the spline on the damper plate or removing or adding spacers between the= two.

So in my mind, a flywheel is the way to go.  Stout, easy = to get, pick your weight, only mods seem to be drilling the mounting holes = and welding on a second gear ring.

--
David Leonard

Turbo= Rotary RV-6 N4VY
http://N4VY.RotaryRoster.net
http://RotaryRoster.net=




<= /DIV>





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