X-Virus-Scanned: clean according to Sophos on Logan.com Return-Path: Received: from mail-vx0-f180.google.com ([209.85.220.180] verified) by logan.com (CommuniGate Pro SMTP 5.4.0) with ESMTPS id 5054003 for flyrotary@lancaironline.net; Sat, 16 Jul 2011 16:31:11 -0400 Received-SPF: pass receiver=logan.com; client-ip=209.85.220.180; envelope-from=dmlobner@gmail.com Received: by vxj12 with SMTP id 12so1098431vxj.25 for ; Sat, 16 Jul 2011 13:30:34 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=gamma; h=mime-version:in-reply-to:references:date:message-id:subject:from:to :content-type; bh=1NcgV0rQTokL8ddVSo2DN/He5NL0fSPT7XSnPaXK1h4=; b=rU1ALxW01MF4iOWvXeGc3koYeW5Hp6wYBAjjfq5lvP/kHBGbWNnMKBVWlUW92htpZI GWWdah2TMEXnWyn2dqpGHcRSDiWrxH2pim8dRcJhcSBiCoz2Jm8ywiCzqMomgPPcgaNr HHS5TNPqNtMKTXh5FXZBNGjomnYXGgheQiV/U= MIME-Version: 1.0 Received: by 10.52.93.108 with SMTP id ct12mr4390432vdb.457.1310848232649; Sat, 16 Jul 2011 13:30:32 -0700 (PDT) Received: by 10.52.183.169 with HTTP; Sat, 16 Jul 2011 13:30:32 -0700 (PDT) In-Reply-To: References: Date: Sat, 16 Jul 2011 15:30:32 -0500 Message-ID: Subject: Re: [FlyRotary] Re: Modified 20B/RX-8 flexplate From: Dustin Lobner To: Rotary motors in aircraft Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary=bcaec5014de142f5a704a835a3a3 --bcaec5014de142f5a704a835a3a3 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=windows-1252 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Just my $.02 as a metallurgical engineer - do you know the alloys that the flexplates are made out of? Do you know if they are carburized, and if so where, or are they just induction hardened throughout? If you don't know, approach welding with extreme caution. You can create a lot of problems that crop up later down the road when you start using it. Or when you've used it for 200 hours. Dustin On Sat, Jul 16, 2011 at 3:27 PM, Mark Steitle wrote: > Kelly, > > I agree. It looks possible using tapered washers, available from McMaste= r. > I may order a dozen of those and see if I can make them work. > > Mark > > > On Sat, Jul 16, 2011 at 2:46 PM, Kelly Troyer wrote: > >> Mark, >> >> Using the two flexplates I would sure try to put the RD1X drive plat= e >> bolts through both if at >> all possible...........Would be much stronger and less likely to fail fr= om >> fatique IMHO.............. >> >> Kelly Troyer >> *"DYKE DELTA JD2" (Eventually)* >> "13B ROTARY"_ Engine >> "RWS"_RD1C/EC2/EM2 >> "MISTRAL"_Backplate/Oil Manifold >> "TURBONETICS"_TO4E50 Turbo >> >> *From:* Mark Steitle >> *To:* Rotary motors in aircraft >> *Sent:* Saturday, July 16, 2011 2:38 PM >> >> *Subject:* [FlyRotary] Re: Modified 20B/RX-8 flexplate >> >> Kelly, >> >> ...Or easier yet, we could use tapered washers, available from McMaster-= Carr >> (http://www.mcmaster.com/#tapered-washers/=3Dd7djrv). >> >> Mark >> >> On Sat, Jul 16, 2011 at 2:32 PM, Mark Steitle wrote= : >> >> Kelly, >> >> Following up on your previous question... With a little heat in the righ= t >> spots, I could flatten spots on the 20B flexplate for the four RD1X >> adapter bolts, allowing the heads to sit flat on the 20B flexplate. >> >> Mark >> >> On Sat, Jul 16, 2011 at 2:23 PM, Kelly Troyer wrote: >> >> Mark, >> >> OK I have got it in my mind now..............I have an >> update...........The "ACT" flywheel was just delivered and >> as soon as I get my mother fed I will see how the RD1X drive plate will >> fit the flywheel as I just happen to have >> it here with me...............Keeping my fingers crossed that all my "AS= " >> umptions work out !!.....................<:) >> >> Kelly Troyer >> *"DYKE DELTA JD2" (Eventually)* >> "13B ROTARY"_ Engine >> "RWS"_RD1C/EC2/EM2 >> "MISTRAL"_Backplate/Oil Manifold >> "TURBONETICS"_TO4E50 Turbo >> >> *From:* Mark Steitle >> *To:* Rotary motors in aircraft >> *Sent:* Saturday, July 16, 2011 1:58 PM >> >> *Subject:* [FlyRotary] Re: Modified 20B/RX-8 flexplate >> >> Kelly, >> >> No, unfortunately the backside of the 20B flexplate is not flat in that >> area. You would need tapered washers to make that work. >> >> Mark >> >> On Sat, Jul 16, 2011 at 1:50 PM, Kelly Troyer wrote: >> >> Mark, >> >> In my mind the four RD!X drive plate bolts would go through both >> flex-plates with a spacer between >> them...............Is this not the scenario ??................ >> >> Kelly Troyer >> *"DYKE DELTA JD2" (Eventually)* >> "13B ROTARY"_ Engine >> "RWS"_RD1C/EC2/EM2 >> "MISTRAL"_Backplate/Oil Manifold >> "TURBONETICS"_TO4E50 Turbo >> >> *From:* Mark Steitle >> *To:* Rotary motors in aircraft >> *Sent:* Saturday, July 16, 2011 1:42 PM >> *Subject:* [FlyRotary] Re: Modified 20B/RX-8 flexplate >> >> Bill, >> >> Not sure which bolts you're referring, there are eight (8) around the >> outside perimeter, and another six (6) that bolt the assy. to the >> e-shaft. If you're referring to the four bolts that attach the 13B plat= e to >> the 20B/RX-8 plate, then yes, definitely torqued. They would need space= rs >> so they would bolt solid and there wouldn't be any springiness. >> >> The trick will be with the four (4) bolts that attach the flexplate assy= to the aluminum adapter. Those bolts will have to be inserted through the >> 13b plate from the rear, then the two plates bolted together with the ot= her >> four bolts, then the assy bolted to the e-shaft, and finally, the alum >> adapter bolted to the flexplate assy. I am picturing a special wrench >> that has been heated and bent to fit in through the lightening holes on = the >> 20b flexplate. Its tight, but workable. >> >> Mark S. >> >> >> On Sat, Jul 16, 2011 at 1:08 PM, Bill Bradburry > > wrote: >> >> ** >> Mark,**** >> Don=92t you think the bolts need to be torqued? If you tighten them dow= n >> against two plates, there will be some springiness no matter how stiff t= he >> plates are.**** >> ** ** >> Bill B**** >> ** ** >> *From:* **Rotary motors in aircraft** [mailto: >> flyrotary@lancaironline.net] *On Behalf Of *Mark Steitle >> *Sent:* Saturday, July 16, 2011 1:58 PM >> >> *To:* **Rotary motors in aircraft** >> *Subject:* [FlyRotary] Re: Modified 20B/RX-8 flexplate >> **** >> ** ** >> Kelly, **** >> ** ** >> Yes, spacers will be required, approximately .250" thick, unless I >> decide to connect the two plates via welding, then it won't matter if th= ey >> touch or not. Originally, I thought they would nest together without th= e >> need for spacers. I like the idea of bolting them so it can be disassem= bled >> if necessary.**** >> ** ** >> Mark**** >> On Sat, Jul 16, 2011 at 12:32 PM, Kelly Troyer wrote:*= * >> ** >> Mark,**** >> **** >> Do the bolt points of both flexplates nest together without any spac= e >> between both **** >> flexplates or will spacers be needed when bolting together >> ??............Could not tell**** >> from the photo................. **** >> **** >> Kelly Troyer >> *"DYKE DELTA JD2"** **(Eventually)***** >> "13B ROTARY"_ Engine >> "RWS"_RD1C/EC2/EM2 >> "MISTRAL"_Backplate/Oil Manifold**** >> "TURBONETICS"_TO4E50 Turbo**** >> ** ** >> *From:* Mark Steitle >> *To:* **Rotary motors in aircraft** >> *Sent:* Saturday, July 16, 2011 11:46 AM >> *Subject:* [FlyRotary] Modified 20B/RX-8 flexplate**** >> ** ** >> All, **** >> ** ** >> Attached is a picture of my proposed solution to the cracking flexplate= s. >> I used my old 13B flexplate, removed the ring gear, and nested it insid= e >> the 20B/RX-8 flexplate. It could be held together by bolting or by >> welding around the outer perimeter, similar to how the ring gear is >> attached, although welding may cause warping. If bolted, there would be= ten >> bolts holding the two flexplates together. I favor the bolting method a= s >> the four bolts holding the aluminum adapter will be a bit tricky to inst= all >> and bolting would make it a bit easier to assemble. **** >> ** ** >> Mark **** >> ---------- Forwarded message ---------- >> From: *Mark* >> Date: Sat, Jul 16, 2011 at 11:47 AM >> Subject: >> To: msteitle@gmail.com >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> Sent from my iPhone**** >> ** ** >> ** ** >> -- >> Homepage: http://www.flyrotary.com/ >> Archive and UnSub: >> http://mail.lancaironline.net:81/lists/flyrotary/List.html >> >> **** >> ** ** >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> > --bcaec5014de142f5a704a835a3a3 Content-Type: text/html; charset=windows-1252 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Just my $.02 as a metallurgical engineer - do you know the alloys that the = flexplates are made out of?=A0 Do you know if they are carburized, and if s= o where, or are they just induction hardened throughout?=A0 If you don'= t know, approach welding with extreme caution.=A0 You can create a lot of p= roblems that crop up later down the road when you start using it.=A0 Or whe= n you've used it for 200 hours.

Dustin

On Sat, Jul 16, 2011 at 3:27 P= M, Mark Steitle <msteitle@gmail.com> wrote:
Kelly,=A0

I agree. =A0It looks possible using tapered wa= shers, available from McMaster. =A0I may order a dozen of those and see if = I can make them work. =A0

= Mark


On Sat, Jul 16, 2011 at 2:46 PM, Kelly Troyer <keltro@att.net> = wrote:
Ma= rk,
=A0
=A0=A0=A0 Using the two flexplates I would sure try= to put the RD1X drive plate bolts through both if at
all possible...........Would be much stronger and less likely to= fail from fatique IMHO..............
=A0
Kelly Troyer
"DYKE DELTA JD2&= quot; (Eventually)
"13B ROTARY"_ Engine
"RWS"_RD1C/EC= 2/EM2
"MISTRAL"_Backplate/Oil Manifold
"TURBONETICS"_TO4E50 Turbo

From: Mark Ste= itle <mst= eitle@gmail.com>
To:= Rotary motors in aircraft <flyrotary@lancaironline.net>
Sent: Saturday, July= 16, 2011 2:38 PM

Subject: [FlyRotary] Re: Modified 20B/RX-8 flexplate<= /span>

Kelly,=A0=20

...Or easier yet, we could use tapered washers, available from M= cMaster-Carr (http://www.mcmaster.com/#tape= red-washers/=3Dd7djrv). =A0=20

Mark

On Sat, Jul 16, 2011 at 2:32 PM, Mark Steitle <msteitle@gmail.com> wrote:
Kelly,=A0=20

Following up on your previous question... With a little heat in the ri= ght spots, I could flatten spots on the 20B flexplate for the = four RD1X adapter bolts, allowing the heads to sit flat on the 20B fl= explate. =A0

Mark

On Sat, Jul 16, 2011 at 2:23 PM, Kelly Troyer <keltro@a= tt.net> wrote:
Mark,
=A0
=A0 OK I=A0 have got it in my mind now..............I have an up= date...........The "ACT" flywheel was just delivered and <= /div>
as soon as I get my mother fed I will see how the RD1X drive pla= te will fit the flywheel as I just happen to have
it here with me...............Keeping my fingers cr= ossed that all my "AS"umptions work out !!..........= ...........<:)
=A0
Kelly Troyer
"DYKE DELTA JD2&= quot; (Eventually)
"13B ROTARY"_ Engine
"RWS"_RD1C/EC= 2/EM2
"MISTRAL"_Backplate/Oil Manifold
"TURBONETICS"_TO4E50 Turbo

From: Mark Ste= itle <msteitle@gmail.com>
To: Rotary motors in aircraft <flyrotary@lancai= ronline.net>
Sent: Saturday, July= 16, 2011 1:58 PM=20

Subject: [FlyRota= ry] Re: Modified 20B/RX-8 flexplate

Kelly,=A0=20

No, unfortunately the backside of the 20B flexplate is no= t flat in that area. =A0You would need tapered washers to make that work. = =A0=20

Mark

On Sat, Jul 16, 2011 at 1:50 PM, Kelly Troyer <keltro@a= tt.net> wrote:
Mark,
=A0
=A0=A0 In my mind the four RD!X drive plate bolts would go through both flex-plates wit= h a spacer between
them...............Is this not the scenario ??................
=A0
Kelly Troyer
"DYKE DELTA JD2" (Eventually)
"13B ROTARY"_ Engine
"RWS&= quot;_RD1C/EC2/EM2
"MISTRAL"_Backplate/Oil Manifold
"TURBONETICS"_TO4E50 Turbo

From: Mark Steitle <msteitle@gmail.com>
To: Rotary motors in aircraft <fly= rotary@lancaironline.net>
Sent: Saturday, July 16, 2= 011 1:42 PM
Subject: [F= lyRotary] Re: Modified 20B/RX-8 flexplate

Bill,=A0=20

Not sure which bolts you're referring, there are eight (8) around = the outside perimeter, and another six (6) that bolt the assy. to the e-shaft. =A0If you're referring to the four bolts = that attach the 13B plate to the 20B/RX-8 plate, then yes, definitely torqu= ed. =A0They would need spacers so they would bolt solid and there wouldn= 9;t be any springiness. =A0

The trick will be with the four (4) bolts that attach the = flexplate assy to the aluminum adap= ter. =A0Those bolts will have to be inserted through the 13b plate from the= rear, then the two plates bolted together with the other four bolts, then = the assy bolted to the e-shaft, and finally, the = alum adapter bolted to the flexplate = assy. =A0I am picturing a special wrench that has been heated= and bent to fit in through the lightening holes on the 20b fle= xplate. =A0Its tight, but workable. =A0

Mark S.


On Sat, Jul 16, 2011 at 1:08 PM, Bill Bradburry <bbradburry@bellsouth.net> wro= te:
Mark,
Don=92t you think the bolts need= to be torqued?=A0 If you tighten them down against two plates, there will = be some springiness no matter how stiff the plates are.
=A0<= /div>
Bill B
=A0<= /div>
From: = Rotary motors in aircraft [mailto:<= a href=3D"mailto:flyrotary@lancaironline.net" rel=3D"nofollow" target=3D"_b= lank">flyrotary@lancaironline.net] Sent: Saturday, July 16, 2= 011 1:58 PM

To: Rotary motors in aircraft
Subject: [FlyRotary] Re: Modified 20B/RX-8 flexplat= e
=A0
Kelly,=A0
=A0
Yes, spacers will be required, approximately .250" thick, unless = I decide to connect the two plates via welding, then it won't matter if= they touch or not. =A0Originally, I thought they would nest together witho= ut the need for spacers. =A0I like the idea of bolting them so it can be di= sassembled if necessary.
=A0
Mark
On Sat, Jul 16, 2011 at 12:32 PM, Kelly Troyer <keltro@att.net> wr= ote:
Mark,
=A0
=A0=A0=A0Do the bolt points of both fle= xplates nest together without any space between both <= u>
flexplates or will spacer= s be needed when bolting together ??............Could not tell
from the photo.................=A0
=A0
Kelly Troyer
"DYKE DELTA JD2" (Eventually)<= /div>
"13B ROTARY"_ Engine
"RWS"_RD1C/EC2/EM2
"MISTRAL"_Backplate/Oil Manifold=
"TURBONETICS"_T= O4E50 Turbo
=A0
From: Mark Steitle= <msteitle@gmail.com>
To: Rotary motors i= n aircraft <flyrotary@lancaironline.net>
Sent: Saturday, July 16, 2011 11:= 46 AM
Subject: [FlyRotary] Modif= ied 20B/RX-8 flexplate
=A0
All,
=A0
Attached is a picture of my proposed solution to the cracking= flexplates. =A0I used my old 13B fle= xplate, removed the ring gear, and nested it inside the 20B/R= X-8 flexplate. =A0It could be held together by bo= lting or by welding around the outer perimeter, similar to how the ring gea= r is attached, although welding may cause warping. =A0If bolted, there woul= d be ten bolts holding the two flexplates togethe= r. =A0I favor the bolting method as the four bolts holding the aluminum ada= pter will be a bit tricky to install and bolting would make it a bit easier= to assemble. =A0
=A0
Mark=A0
---------- Forwarded message ----------
From: Mark <msteitle@gmail.com>
Date: Sat, Jul 16, 2011 at 11:47 AM
Subject:
To: msteitle@gmail.com








Sent from my iPhone=
=A0
=A0
=A0












--bcaec5014de142f5a704a835a3a3--