X-Virus-Scanned: clean according to Sophos on Logan.com Return-Path: Received: from imr-ma06.mx.aol.com ([64.12.78.142] verified) by logan.com (CommuniGate Pro SMTP 5.4c3j) with ESMTP id 4958750 for flyrotary@lancaironline.net; Tue, 26 Apr 2011 23:49:00 -0400 Received-SPF: pass receiver=logan.com; client-ip=64.12.78.142; envelope-from=Bktrub@aol.com Received: from imo-ma01.mx.aol.com (imo-ma01.mx.aol.com [64.12.78.136]) by imr-ma06.mx.aol.com (8.14.1/8.14.1) with ESMTP id p3R3mKMM018677 for ; Tue, 26 Apr 2011 23:48:20 -0400 Received: from Bktrub@aol.com by imo-ma01.mx.aol.com (mail_out_v42.9.) id q.1056.5e5841e (45073) for ; Tue, 26 Apr 2011 23:48:17 -0400 (EDT) Received: from smtprly-de02.mx.aol.com (smtprly-de02.mx.aol.com [205.188.249.169]) by cia-mc02.mx.aol.com (v129.10) with ESMTP id MAILCIAMC025-b2354db791fc161; Tue, 26 Apr 2011 23:48:16 -0400 Received: from webmail-m058 (webmail-m058.sim.aol.com [64.12.158.158]) by smtprly-de02.mx.aol.com (v129.10) with ESMTP id MAILSMTPRLYDE022-b2354db791fc161; Tue, 26 Apr 2011 23:48:12 -0400 References: To: flyrotary@lancaironline.net Subject: Re: [FlyRotary] Re: Mcmaster-Carr Barry engine mount $6.50 Date: Tue, 26 Apr 2011 23:48:12 -0400 X-AOL-IP: 50.46.100.112 In-Reply-To: X-MB-Message-Source: WebUI MIME-Version: 1.0 From: bktrub@aol.com X-MB-Message-Type: User Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="--------MB_8CDD2A5111A019C_1EA0_6826D_webmail-m058.sysops.aol.com" X-Mailer: AOL Webmail 33636-STANDARD Received: from 50.46.100.112 by webmail-m058.sysops.aol.com (64.12.158.158) with HTTP (WebMailUI); Tue, 26 Apr 2011 23:48:12 -0400 Message-Id: <8CDD2A50DFA324C-1EA0-3A475@webmail-m058.sysops.aol.com> X-Spam-Flag:NO X-AOL-SENDER: Bktrub@aol.com ----------MB_8CDD2A5111A019C_1EA0_6826D_webmail-m058.sysops.aol.com Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Too bad at that price.=20 Brian -----Original Message----- From: Kelly Troyer To: Rotary motors in aircraft Sent: Tue, Apr 26, 2011 8:26 pm Subject: [FlyRotary] Re: Mcmaster-Carr Barry engine mount $6.50 Brian, Checked this part # out...............Will not work as a Dynafocal typ= e 1 mount unfortunately................ =20 Kelly Troyer "DYKE DELTA JD2" (Eventually) "13B ROTARY"_ Engine "RWS"_RD1C/EC2/EM2 "MISTRAL"_Backplate/Oil Manifold "TURBONETICS"_TO4E50 Turbo From: "bktrub@aol.com" To: Rotary motors in aircraft Sent: Tue, April 26, 2011 8:51:47 PM Subject: [FlyRotary] Mcmaster-Carr Barry engine mount $6.50 Here is what I have from Mcmaster- Carr- purchased in May, 2001: part #= 6309K35 Description: Neoprene center bolt-through mount, two piece, 0.53= 2" hole dia, 240 # max load. $6.50 each. =20 Brian Trubee -----Original Message----- From: Kelly Troyer To: Rotary motors in aircraft Sent: Tue, Apr 26, 2011 6:11 pm Subject: [FlyRotary] Re: Mistral 'Like' Intake Brian, =20 Really wish these would work for the Dynafocal mount !!......Is this pa= rt # representative of what you are using ?? =20 =20 64865K84 =20 http://www.mcmaster.com/#nonmetallic-vibration-damping-mounts/=3Dc1tn59 =20 Kelly Troyer "DYKE DELTA JD2" (Eventually) "13B ROTARY"_ Engine "RWS"_RD1C/EC2/EM2 "MISTRAL"_Backplate/Oil Manifold "TURBONETICS"_TO4E50 Turbo From: "bktrub@aol.com" To: Rotary motors in aircraft Sent: Tue, April 26, 2011 7:44:09 PM Subject: [FlyRotary] Re: Mistral 'Like' Intake Mcmaster-carr has Barry mounts for around $7 each. That's right, I'm not= leaving out a decimal place. That's what I am using. =20 Brian Trubee -----Original Message----- From: Kelly Troyer To: Rotary motors in aircraft Sent: Tue, Apr 26, 2011 4:48 pm Subject: [FlyRotary] Re: Mistral 'Like' Intake Jarrett, =20 Best price I have found thus far..............Aircraft Spruce part #08-= 3600 , $268.95 (US) for a complete=20 set of 4 and spacers.................. =20 =20 http://www.aircraftspruce.com/menus/ep/mounts.html =20 http://www.aircraftspruce.com/catalog/eppages/heavydutydynafocal.php =20 Kelly Troyer "DYKE DELTA JD2" (Eventually) "13B ROTARY"_ Engine "RWS"_RD1C/EC2/EM2 "MISTRAL"_Backplate/Oil Manifold "TURBONETICS"_TO4E50 Turbo From: H & J Johnson To: Rotary motors in aircraft Sent: Tue, April 26, 2011 6:01:37 PM Subject: [FlyRotary] Re: Mistral 'Like' Intake Haha... first though through my brain was it prob would be easier, but if= the majority of kits now ship w/ Dynafocal and the expectation is that I= want to produce a bolt on replacement option. Then the Dynafocal units is= where it all needs to start. The Conical ones very well could use cheaper= rubbers but the potential loss of interest due to the older mount style= probably out-weighs the benifit? Also didn't someone come up w/ a cheap= solution for the isolation rubbers on the Dynafocal units [possibly on Pa= uls List?]? I've never priced them but if they are that steep then I'll= just have to find a supplier and start selling my own :). It wouldn't be= the first rubber product I've created and had built specifically for me.= [well my employer, but 'my' project] Where does it end :) the short answer is probably never... :) I can't thank you guys enough for all the intel you've sent my way. Jarrett Johnson=20 www.innovention-tech.com=20 ----- Original Message -----=20 From: Kelly Troyer =20 Date: Tuesday, April 26, 2011 4:32 pm=20 Subject: [FlyRotary] Re: Mistral 'Like' Intake=20 > Jarrett,=20 > Charlie may be on to something here about the "Conical"=20 > parallel=20 > mount..........gives you=20 >=20 > more to mull over.................<:) (just what you need) =20 > =20 > Kelly Troyer=20 > "DYKE DELTA JD2" (Eventually)=20 > "13B ROTARY"_ Engine=20 > "RWS"_RD1C/EC2/EM2=20 > "MISTRAL"_Backplate/Oil Manifold=20 > "TURBONETICS"_TO4E50 Turbo=20 >=20 >=20 >=20 >=20 > ________________________________=20 > From: Charlie England =20 > To: Rotary motors in aircraft =20 > Sent: Tue, April 26, 2011 5:06:54 PM=20 > Subject: [FlyRotary] Re: Mistral 'Like' Intake=20 >=20 > 2nd Kelly's opinion. the info I have said type 2 was for engines=20 > with *extended=20 > hub* constant speed prop (~2 1/2" beyond a normal constant speed),=20 > which moves=20 > the cg forward a lot. Van's no longer even supplies type 2 mounts=20 > because they=20 > are so rare.=20 >=20 >=20 > IMO, the only reason to do dynafocal at all is because the mounts=20 > are so common.=20 > the old 'conical' style mount (4 parallel bolts) would be just=20 > fine for a rotary=20 > with its inherently smooth operation. The reason Lyc did the=20 > dynafocal was an=20 > attempt to damp their flat 4's horrendous vibration pattern (not=20 > that=20 > effective...). The conical mount Lyc motors can be converted to=20 > dynafocal by an=20 > engine shop, implying that the bolt circle is virtually identical.=20 > The downside=20 > to dynafocal is that the rubbers cost about a factor of 10-15 more=20 > money than=20 > conical mount rubbers. Less than $30 for a set of conical; $300-=20 > $500 for=20 > dynafocal.=20 >=20 >=20 > I still have available the dyna ring off my original RV motor=20 > mount, if there's=20 > a scanning shop in Jackson MS. If you can find a shop, let me know=20 > & I'll take=20 > it there for a scan.=20 >=20 > To address the concern about attachment strength: with a new=20 > housing, it should=20 > be relatively simple to add a piece to grab the top of the middle=20 > iron or even=20 > the bellhousing flange top bolts if you're really paranoid. I'm no=20 > engineer, but=20 > I'd think that there is plenty of bolt & aluminum area to take the=20 > shear loads;=20 > the only question in my mind would be the bolts at the top that=20 > will be in=20 > tension in the cast iron casting. I have a hard time believing=20 > that 6 gs could=20 > stretch the 4 or 5 bolts across the top of the 'stack' enough to=20 > affect the=20 > engine, at the relatively low power levels that will be used in=20 > a/c. (I'm=20 > strictly talking about 2 rotor engines, not the 3+ rotor versions.)=20 >=20 > Charlie=20 >=20 > On 4/26/2011 9:04 AM, Kelly Troyer wrote:=20 > Jarrett,=20 > >=20 > > The "Mistral" 13B engine (and their 20B) CG of 9.44 and=20 > 11.73 inches=20 > >respectively was complete with=20 > >=20 > >all accessories and redrive (which is heavier than Tracy's RD1X=20 > re-drives of 44=20 > >lbs)................The addition=20 > >of a constant speed (with normal extension) would still keep the=20 > Type 1, 30=20 > >degree focal point of 14.373"=20 > >in front of the 13B CG (IMHO)...........The 20B CG with normal=20 > constant speed=20 > >would have to be calculated=20 > >to see if it remained within the Type 1, 30 degree 14.373" focal=20 > >point..............The type 2,18 degree seems=20 > >to have been used only on a specific 0-320 model installed in the=20 > twin Comanche=20 > >(That does not keep your=20 > >Lancair from having this engine installed)..................=20 > >=20 > > =20 > >Kelly Troyer=20 > >"DYKE DELTA JD2" (Eventually)=20 > >"13B ROTARY"_ Engine=20 > >"RWS"_RD1C/EC2/EM2=20 > >"MISTRAL"_Backplate/Oil Manifold=20 > >"TURBONETICS"_TO4E50 Turbo=20 > >=20 > >=20 > >=20 > >=20 > >=20 > ________________________________=20 > From: H & J Johnson =20 > >To: Rotary motors in aircraft =20 > >Sent: Tue, April 26, 2011 2:36:54 AM=20 > >Subject: [FlyRotary] Re: Mistral 'Like' Intake=20 > >=20 > > Interesting. I may very well be wrong but for some reason I had=20 > it in my head=20 > >[once it was jared by Bills mention of Type 2] that the Type 2's=20 > were usually=20 > >used for engines w/ constant speed [due to weight] and the type=20 > 1's were used=20 > >mainly for fixed pitch. [old wives tale?] I would think that due=20 > to our extra=20 > >weight out front on the nose a Type 2 would be more in order.=20 > Having said that,=20 > >I have no idea where the CofG on a 13B is located and how that=20 > relates to the=20 > >various focal points. In addition, how adding a PSRU on the nose=20 > would impact=20 > >the CofG [and or a electricl pitch prop etc]. I'll have to do=20 > some reading and=20 > >see what I can dig up. Certainly a good place to start w/ as far=20 > as a ground up=20 > >design on the mounting housing.=20 > >=20 > >Lynn, re: Strength of the Connection.=20 > >I remember you stating some of those points a while back. I'm=20 > wondering if, in=20 > >our lower power state, these are as much a concern as they are in=20 > the racing=20 > >world? It would certainly be possible to add extra parts to the=20 > install [the=20 > >thickened bottom plate, or perhaps some form of a stiffener that=20 > locks the block=20 > >from torque related movement front to back { all just thoughts=20 > flashing through=20 > >my brain, RHRN}. I've not heard comment about how Mistral=20 > addressed this [or if=20 > >it was a concern of theirs?].=20 > >Kelly, do you know of any additional connection points [dowels or=20 > pins etc] that=20 > >were needed for the instal of a Mistral housing? =20 > >It certainly is not my first 'pick' to have a mounting housing=20 > which needs=20 > >modifications to a short block, to allow it to be installed.=20 > >=20 > >=20 > >Jarrett Johnson=20 > >www.innovention-tech.com=20 > > =20 > >Jarrett and Bill,=20 > > Here is the source of my "Dynafocal" mount info...............= =20 > > =20 > >Kelly Troyer=20 > >"DYKE DELTA JD2"(Eventually)=20 > >"13B ROTARY"_ Engine=20 > >"RWS"_RD1C/EC2/EM2=20 > >"MISTRAL"_Backplate/Oil Manifold=20 > >"TURBONETICS"_TO4E50 Turbo=20 > >=20 > >=20 > >=20 > >=20 > >=20 > ________________________________=20 > From: Kelly Troyer =20 > >To: Rotary motors in aircraft =20 > >Sent: Mon, April 25, 2011 10:37:25 PM=20 > >Subject: [FlyRotary] Re: Mistral 'Like' Intake=20 > >=20 > >=20 > >Bill,=20 > > My info says the Type 2 ,18 degree was introduced when O-=20 > 320's were put=20 > >in twin Comanches=20 > >with extra long constant speed prop extensions (for a more=20 > streamlined=20 > >cowl)............This then put=20 > >the engine CG further forward so to keep the Dynafocal mount=20 > "Focal" point=20 > >slightly ahead of the=20 > >engine CG the Dynafocal mount angle was reduced from 30 degrees=20 > to 18=20 > >degrees.........=20 > >=20 > > The Dynafocal type 1 focal point is 14.323 inches from the=20 > >mounts..................The "Mistral" 13B=20 > >engine CG is 9.44 inches from the mount so should work well with=20 > the type 1, 30=20 > >degree Dynafocal=20 > >mount..............IMHO =20 > > =20 > >Kelly Troyer=20 > >"DYKE DELTA JD2"(Eventually)=20 > >"13B ROTARY"_ Engine=20 > >"RWS"_RD1C/EC2/EM2=20 > >"MISTRAL"_Backplate/Oil Manifold=20 > >"TURBONETICS"_TO4E50 Turbo=20 > >=20 > >=20 > >=20 > >=20 > >=20 > ________________________________=20 > From: Bill Bradburry =20 > >To: Rotary motors in aircraft =20 > >Sent: Mon, April 25, 2011 10:13:02 PM=20 > >Subject: [FlyRotary] Re: Mistral 'Like' Intake=20 > >=20 > >=20 > >There is also a Type 2 Dynafocal that I think is in more common=20 > usage. If I=20 > >recall the angle on it is 17 degrees.=20 > > =20 > >Bill B=20 > > =20 > >=20 > ________________________________=20 >=20 > >From:Rotary motors in aircraft [flyrotary@lancaironline.net] On=20 > Behalf Of=20 > >Kelly Troyer=20 > >Sent: Monday, April 25, 2011 4:57 PM=20 > >To: Rotary motors in aircraft=20 > >Subject: [FlyRotary] Re: Mistral 'Like' Intake=20 > > =20 > >Jarrett,=20 > > =20 > > I found the "Dynafocal" info................Was on my other=20 > computer=20 > >!!..................=20 > > =20 > >Kelly Troyer=20 > >"DYKE DELTA JD2"(Eventually)=20 > >"13B ROTARY"_ Engine=20 > >"RWS"_RD1C/EC2/EM2=20 > >"MISTRAL"_Backplate/Oil Manifold=20 > >"TURBONETICS"_TO4E50 Turbo=20 > > =20 > > =20 > >=20 > ________________________________=20 >=20 > >From:H & J Johnson =20 > >To: Rotary motors in aircraft =20 > >Sent: Mon, April 25, 2011 11:21:48 AM=20 > >Subject: [FlyRotary] Re: Mistral 'Like' Intake=20 > >The scanning should give in the tens of thousands [0.01"] or less=20 > depending on=20 > >what type of equipement used etc. That in conjunction w/ bolt=20 > hold placement=20 > >that I already have [lots of collected data over the years] I=20 > should be able to=20 > >duplicate the basic geometry. From there it will become a new=20 > product in that we=20 > >want to make it something that works for everyone [or as many as=20 > possible] to=20 > >make it a viable unit. That info, mixed w/ knowing what the=20 > 'Standard' mount=20 > >geometry is should get us where we need to go.=20 > >Best regards=20 > >=20 > >Jarrett Johnson=20 > >www.innovention-tech.com=20 > >----- Original Message -----=20 > >From: Kelly Troyer =20 > >Date: Monday, April 25, 2011 10:03 am=20 > >Subject: [FlyRotary] Re: Mistral 'Like' Intake=20 > >> Jarrett,=20 > >>=20 > >> I do not know exactly what dimensions the scanning give=20 > you=20 > >> such as bolt=20 > >> hole placement, etc.........I presumed=20 > >> that the angles of the mount ears needed for the "Dynafoal"=20 > mounts=20 > >> would be=20 > >> "Dead" on though..........=20 > >>=20 > >>=20 > >> Kelly Troyer=20 > >> "DYKE DELTA JD2" (Eventually)=20 > >> "13B ROTARY"_ Engine=20 > >> "RWS"_RD1C/EC2/EM2=20 > >> "MISTRAL"_Backplate/Oil Manifold=20 > >> "TURBONETICS"_TO4E50 Turbo=20 > >>=20 > >>=20 > >>=20 > >>=20 > >> ________________________________=20 > >> From: H & J Johnson =20 > >> To: Rotary motors in aircraft =20 > >> Sent: Mon, April 25, 2011 10:49:43 AM=20 > >> Subject: [FlyRotary] Re: Mistral 'Like' Intake=20 > >>=20 > >> Excellent, now I just need to get some Dynafocal dimensions=20 > [I've=20 > >> seen it on=20 > >> the web in the past, just gotta re-locate the dimensional=20 > >> 'standards']. That in=20 > >> conjunction w/ a few scans & the picture will start to really=20 > take=20 > >> shape!=20 > >>=20 > >> I love progress :)=20 > >> I can't say Thanks enough Kelly, w/out the help of yourself and=20 > >> others it would=20 > >> be a much steeper curve to get it up to speed.=20 > >>=20 > >> Jarrett Johnson=20 > >> www.innovention-tech.com=20 > >> -- Homepage: http://www.flyrotary.com/ ; Archive and UnSub: http://= mail.lancaironline.net:81/lists/flyrotary/List.html ----------MB_8CDD2A5111A019C_1EA0_6826D_webmail-m058.sysops.aol.com Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Content-Type: text/html; charset="us-ascii"
Too bad at that price.
 
Brian



-----Original Message-----
From: Kelly Troyer <keltro@att.net>
To: Rotary motors in aircraft <flyrotary@lancaironline.net>
Sent: Tue, Apr 26, 2011 8:26 pm
Subject: [FlyRotary] Re: Mcmaster-Carr Barry engine mount $6.50

Brian,
    Checked this part # out...............Will no= t work as a Dynafocal type 1 mount unfortunately................=
 
Kelly Troyer
"DYKE DELTA JD2" (Eventually)=
"13B ROTARY"_ Engine
"RWS"_RD1C/EC2/EM2
"MISTRAL"_Backplate/Oil Manifold
"TURBONETICS"_TO4E50 Turbo

=
From: "bktrub@aol.com" <b= ktrub@aol.com>
To: Rotary motors in aircr= aft <flyrotary@lancairon= line.net>
Sent: Tue, April 26, 2011= 8:51:47 PM
Subject: [FlyRotary] Mcmas= ter-Carr Barry engine mount $6.50

Here is what I have from Mcmaster- Carr- purchased in May, 2001: = ; part # 6309K35  Description: Neoprene center bolt-through mount, tw= o piece, 0.532" hole dia, 240 # max load.    $6.50 each.
 
Brian Trubee



keltro@att.net>
To: Rotary motors in aircraft <flyrotary@lancaironline.net>
Sent: Tue, Apr 26, 2011 6:11 pm
Subject: [FlyRotary] Re: Mistral 'Like' Intake

Brian,
 
   Really wish these would work for the Dynafocal mount !!.= .....Is this part #
representative of what you are using ??     =    
 
 
Kelly Troyer
"DYKE DELTA JD2" (Eventually)=
"13B ROTARY"_ Engine
"RWS"_RD1C/EC2/EM2
"MISTRAL"_Backplate/Oil Manifold
"TURBONETICS"_TO4E50 Turbo

=
From: "bktrub@aol.com" <bktrub@aol.com>
To: Rotary motors in aircr= aft <flyr= otary@lancaironline.net>
Sent: Tue, April 26, 2011= 7:44:09 PM
Subject: [FlyRotary] Re:= Mistral 'Like' Intake

Mcmaster-carr has Barry= mounts for around $7 each. That's right, I'm not leaving out a decimal pl= ace. That's what I am using.
 
Brian Trubee



ke= ltro@att.net>
To: Rotary motors in aircraft <flyrotary@lancaironline.net>
Sent: Tue, Apr 26, 2011 4:48 pm
Subject: [FlyRotary] Re: Mistral 'Like' Intake

Jarrett,
 
   Best price I have found thus far..............Aircr= aft Spruce part #08-3600 , $268.95 (US) for a complete
set of 4 and spacers..................
 
 
 
Kelly Troyer
"DYKE DELTA JD2" (Eventually)=
"13B ROTARY"_ Engine
"RWS"_RD1C/EC2/EM2
"MISTRAL"_Backplate/Oil Manifold
"TURBONETICS"_TO4E50 Turbo

=
From: H & J Johnson &l= t;hjjohnson@saskte= l.net>
To: Rotary motors in aircr= aft <flyr= otary@lancaironline.net>
Sent: Tue, April 26, 2011= 6:01:37 PM
Subject: [FlyRotary] Re:= Mistral 'Like' Intake

Haha...  first though through my brain was it prob would be easi= er, but if the majority of kits now ship w/ Dynafocal and the expectation= is that I want to produce a bolt on replacement option. Then the Dynafoca= l units is where it all needs to start. The Conical ones very well could&n= bsp;use cheaper rubbers but the potential loss of interest due to the olde= r mount style probably out-weighs the benifit? Also didn't someone come up= w/ a cheap solution for the isolation rubbers on the Dynafocal units [pos= sibly on Pauls List?]?  I've never priced them but if they are that= steep then I'll just have to find a supplier and start selling my own :).= It wouldn't be the first rubber product I've created and had built= specifically for me. [well my employer, but 'my' project]
Where does it end :)  the short answer is probably never... = ; :)
I can't thank you guys enough for all the intel you've sent my way.
Jarrett Johnson
www.innovention-tech.com

----- Original Message -----=20
From: Kelly Troyer <keltro@att.net>=20
Date: Tuesday, April 26, 2011 4:32 pm=20
Subject: [FlyRotary] Re: Mistral 'Like' Intake=20
> Jarrett,
>     Charlie may be on to something here about the "Con= ical"
> parallel
> mount..........gives you
>
> more to mull over.................<:) (just what you need) =
>  
> Kelly Troyer
> "DYKE DELTA JD2" (Eventually)
> "13B ROTARY"_ Engine
> "RWS"_RD1C/EC2/EM2
> "MISTRAL"_Backplate/Oil Manifold
> "TURBONETICS"_TO4E50 Turbo
>
>
>
>
> ________________________________
> From: Charlie England <ceengland@bellsouth.net>
> To: Rotary motors in aircraft <flyrotary@lancaironline.net>
> Sent: Tue, April 26, 2011 5:06:54 PM
> Subject: [FlyRotary] Re: Mistral 'Like' Intake
>
> 2nd Kelly's opinion. the info I have said type 2 was for engines
> with *extended
> hub* constant speed prop (~2 1/2" beyond a normal constant speed), > which moves
> the cg forward a lot. Van's no longer even supplies type 2 mounts > because they
> are so rare.
>
>
> IMO, the only reason to do dynafocal at all is because the mounts > are so common.
> the old 'conical' style mount (4 parallel bolts) would be just
> fine for a rotary
> with its inherently smooth operation. The reason Lyc did the
> dynafocal was an
> attempt to damp their flat 4's horrendous vibration pattern (not
> that
> effective...). The conical mount Lyc motors can be converted to
> dynafocal by an
> engine shop, implying that the bolt circle is virtually identical. > The downside
> to dynafocal is that the rubbers cost about a factor of 10-15 more > money than
> conical mount rubbers. Less than $30 for a set of conical; $300-
> $500 for
> dynafocal.
>
>
> I still have available the dyna ring off my original RV motor
> mount, if there's
> a scanning shop in Jackson MS. If you can find a shop, let me know > & I'll take
> it there for a scan.
>
> To address the concern about attachment strength: with a new
> housing, it should
> be relatively simple to add a piece to grab the top of the middle > iron or even
> the bellhousing flange top bolts if you're really paranoid. I'm no > engineer, but
> I'd think that there is plenty of bolt & aluminum area to take th= e
> shear loads;
> the only question in my mind would be the bolts at the top that
> will be in
> tension in the cast iron casting. I have a hard time believing
> that 6 gs could
> stretch the 4 or 5 bolts across the top of the 'stack' enough to
> affect the
> engine, at the relatively low power levels that will be used in
> a/c. (I'm
> strictly talking about 2 rotor engines, not the 3+ rotor versions.)=
>
> Charlie
>
> On 4/26/2011 9:04 AM, Kelly Troyer wrote:
> Jarrett,
> >
> >     The "Mistral" 13B engine (and their 20B)=  CG of 9.44 and
> 11.73  inches
> >respectively was complete with
> >
> >all accessories and redrive (which is heavier than Tracy's&n= bsp;RD1X
> re-drives of 44
> >lbs)................The addition
> >of a constant speed (with normal extension) would still keep the=
> Type 1, 30
> >degree focal point of 14.373"
> >in front of the 13B CG (IMHO)...........The 20B CG with normal > constant speed
> >would have to be calculated
> >to see if it remained within the Type 1, 30 degree 14.373" focal=
> >point..............The type 2,18 degree seems
> >to have been used only on a specific 0-320 model installed in the=
> twin Comanche
> >(That does not keep your
> >Lancair from having this engine installed).............= .....
> >
> >   
> >Kelly Troyer
> >"DYKE DELTA JD2" (Eventually)
> >"13B ROTARY"_ Engine
> >"RWS"_RD1C/EC2/EM2
> >"MISTRAL"_Backplate/Oil Manifold
> >"TURBONETICS"_TO4E50 Turbo
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> ________________________________
> From: H & J Johnson <hjjohnson@sasktel.net>
> >To: Rotary motors in aircraft <flyrotary@lancaironline.net>
> >Sent: Tue, April 26, 2011 2:36:54 AM
> >Subject: [FlyRotary] Re: Mistral 'Like' Intake
> >
> > Interesting. I may very well be wrong but for some reason= I had
> it in my head
> >[once it was jared by Bills mention of Type 2] that the Type 2's=
> were usually
> >used for engines w/ constant speed [due to weight] and the type=
> 1's were used
> >mainly for fixed pitch. [old wives tale?] I would think that= due
> to our extra
> >weight out front on the nose a Type 2 would be more in order. > Having said that,
> >I have no idea where the CofG on a 13B is located and how that > relates to the
> >various focal points. In addition, how adding a PSRU on the nose=
> would impact
> >the CofG [and or a electricl pitch prop etc].  I'll have to= do
> some reading and
> >see what I can dig up.  Certainly a good place to start w/= as far
> as a ground up
> >design on the mounting housing.
> >
> >Lynn, re: Strength of the Connection.
> >I remember you stating some of those points a while back. I'm > wondering if, in
> >our lower power state, these are as much a concern as they are in=
> the racing
> >world? It would certainly be possible to add extra parts to the=
> install [the
> >thickened bottom plate, or perhaps some form of a stiffener that=
> locks the block
> >from torque related movement front to back  { all just thoug= hts
> flashing through
> >my brain, RHRN}. I've not heard comment about how Mistral
> addressed this [or if
> >it was a concern of theirs?].
> >Kelly, do you know of any additional connection points [dowels or=
> pins etc] that
> >were needed for the instal of a Mistral housing? 
> >It certainly is not my first 'pick' to have a mounting housing > which needs
> >modifications to a short block, to allow it to be installed.
> >
> >
> >Jarrett Johnson
> >www.innovention-tech.com
> > 
> >Jarrett and Bill,
> >       Here is the source of my "Dy= nafocal" mount info...............
> > 
> >Kelly Troyer
> >"DYKE DELTA JD2"(Eventually)
> >"13B ROTARY"_ Engine
> >"RWS"_RD1C/EC2/EM2
> >"MISTRAL"_Backplate/Oil Manifold
> >"TURBONETICS"_TO4E50 Turbo
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> ________________________________
> From: Kelly Troyer <keltro@att.net>
> >To: Rotary motors in aircraft <flyrotary@lancaironline.net>
> >Sent: Mon, April 25, 2011 10:37:25 PM
> >Subject: [FlyRotary] Re: Mistral 'Like' Intake
> >
> >
> >Bill,
> >       My info says the Type 2 ,18= degree was introduced when O-
> 320's were put
> >in twin Comanches
> >with extra long constant speed prop extensions (for a more
> streamlined
> >cowl)............This then put
> >the engine CG further forward so to keep the Dynafocal mount
> "Focal" point
> >slightly ahead of the
> >engine CG the Dynafocal mount angle was reduced from 30 degrees=
> to 18
> >degrees.........
> >
> >      The Dynafocal type 1 focal point= is 14.323 inches from the
> >mounts..................The "Mistral" 13B
> >engine CG is 9.44 inches from the mount so should work well with=
> the type 1, 30
> >degree Dynafocal
> >mount..............IMHO 
> > 
> >Kelly Troyer
> >"DYKE DELTA JD2"(Eventually)
> >"13B ROTARY"_ Engine
> >"RWS"_RD1C/EC2/EM2
> >"MISTRAL"_Backplate/Oil Manifold
> >"TURBONETICS"_TO4E50 Turbo
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> ________________________________
> From: Bill Bradburry <bbradburry@bellsouth.net>
> >To: Rotary motors in aircraft <flyrotary@lancaironline.net>
> >Sent: Mon, April 25, 2011 10:13:02 PM
> >Subject: [FlyRotary] Re: Mistral 'Like' Intake
> >
> >
> >There is also a Type 2 Dynafocal that I think is in more common=
> usage.  If I
> >recall the angle on it is 17 degrees.
> > 
> >Bill B
> > 
> >
> ________________________________
>
> >From:Rotary motors in aircraft [flyrotary@lancaironline.net] On
> Behalf Of
> >Kelly Troyer
> >Sent: Monday, April 25, 2011 4:57 PM
> >To: Rotary motors in aircraft
> >Subject: [FlyRotary] Re: Mistral 'Like' Intake
> > 
> >Jarrett,
> > 
> >     I found the "Dynafocal" info............= ....Was on my other
> computer
> >!!..................
> > 
> >Kelly Troyer
> >"DYKE DELTA JD2"(Eventually)
> >"13B ROTARY"_ Engine
> >"RWS"_RD1C/EC2/EM2
> >"MISTRAL"_Backplate/Oil Manifold
> >"TURBONETICS"_TO4E50 Turbo
> > 
> > 
> >
> ________________________________
>
> >From:H & J Johnson <hjjohnson@sasktel.net>
> >To: Rotary motors in aircraft <flyrotary@lancaironline.net>
> >Sent: Mon, April 25, 2011 11:21:48 AM
> >Subject: [FlyRotary] Re: Mistral 'Like' Intake
> >The scanning should give in the tens of thousands [0.01"] or less=
> depending on
> >what type of equipement used etc.   That in conjunction= w/ bolt
> hold placement
> >that I already have [lots of collected data over the years] I > should be able to
> >duplicate the basic geometry. From there it will become a new > product in that we
> >want to make it something that works for everyone [or= as many as
> possible] to
> >make it a viable unit. That info, mixed w/ knowing what the
> 'Standard' mount
> >geometry is should get us where we need to go.
> >Best regards
> >
> >Jarrett Johnson
> >www.innovention-tech.com
> >----- Original Message -----
> >From: Kelly Troyer <keltro@att.net>
> >Date: Monday, April 25, 2011 10:03 am
> >Subject: [FlyRotary] Re: Mistral 'Like' Intake
> >> Jarrett,
> >>
> >>       I do not know exactly wh= at dimensions the scanning give
> you
> >> such as bolt
> >> hole placement, etc.........I presumed
> >> that the angles of the mount ears needed for the "Dynafoal"=
> mounts
> >> would be
> >> "Dead" on though..........
> >>
> >>
> >> Kelly Troyer
> >> "DYKE DELTA JD2" (Eventually)
> >> "13B ROTARY"_ Engine
> >> "RWS"_RD1C/EC2/EM2
> >> "MISTRAL"_Backplate/Oil Manifold
> >> "TURBONETICS"_TO4E50 Turbo
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >> ________________________________
> >> From: H & J Johnson <hjjohnson@sasktel.net>
> >> To: Rotary motors in aircraft <flyrotary@lancaironline.net> > >> Sent: Mon, April 25, 2011 10:49:43 AM
> >> Subject: [FlyRotary] Re: Mistral 'Like' Intake
> >>
> >>  Excellent, now I just need to get some Dynafocal dimen= sions
> [I've
> >> seen it on
> >> the web in the past, just gotta re-locate the dimensional > >> 'standards']. That in
> >> conjunction w/ a few scans & the picture will start to= really
> take
> >> shape!
> >>
> >> I love progress :)
> >> I can't say Thanks enough Kelly, w/out the help of yourself= and
> >> others it would
> >> be a much steeper curve to get it up to speed.
> >>
> >> Jarrett Johnson
> >> www.innovention-tech.com
> >> --  Homepage:  http://www.flyrotary.com/ ; Archive and= UnSub: http://mail.lancaironline.net:81/lists/flyrotary/List= .html







































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