X-Virus-Scanned: clean according to Sophos on Logan.com Return-Path: Received: from nm17.access.bullet.mail.sp2.yahoo.com ([98.139.44.144] verified) by logan.com (CommuniGate Pro SMTP 5.4c3j) with SMTP id 4958406 for flyrotary@lancaironline.net; Tue, 26 Apr 2011 19:49:33 -0400 Received-SPF: none receiver=logan.com; client-ip=98.139.44.144; envelope-from=keltro@att.net Received: from [98.139.44.101] by nm17.access.bullet.mail.sp2.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 26 Apr 2011 23:48:59 -0000 Received: from [98.139.44.76] by tm6.access.bullet.mail.sp2.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 26 Apr 2011 23:48:59 -0000 Received: from [127.0.0.1] by omp1013.access.mail.sp2.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 26 Apr 2011 23:48:59 -0000 X-Yahoo-Newman-Property: ymail-3 X-Yahoo-Newman-Id: 902094.17656.bm@omp1013.access.mail.sp2.yahoo.com Received: (qmail 64546 invoked by uid 60001); 26 Apr 2011 23:48:59 -0000 DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=att.net; s=s1024; t=1303861739; bh=aZPqYAK2rY3SnUf7hl4ZdwNfkZLnHFlk1C3r58LysGc=; h=Message-ID:X-YMail-OSG:Received:X-Mailer:Date:From:Subject:To:MIME-Version:Content-Type; b=ZxZn6dICsOaYq2SQKpJOcfPG84sjKG1Hg5/JIT6IrfZakr6FZzG+u5bo1wcLGNOs2Wu2tBOGcBPEMe+gbDFE2TKWv7tdCpDYXRgk5mtSxlCj0H0+qJq2ABKLeHqik8i9iROWaL74DqpPcy0XamUYXMlrELLZuEWwbMpcmJul5lE= DomainKey-Signature:a=rsa-sha1; q=dns; c=nofws; s=s1024; d=att.net; h=Message-ID:X-YMail-OSG:Received:X-Mailer:Date:From:Subject:To:MIME-Version:Content-Type; b=1J/GxScKa7xFq6qfV/eMW3fozj1tpGT2hyHyEVl0AFKa4uci6fdqmI1dT9bSRqgu9EuO/0AG1QHFgC3AalITKShoXNIvzUDBdLNG6hdzjnuyxLVgcUnhP4TBoIRBj0ZiLkxyxJDyy4UZ/23uvak2BkgPDUDhVa3jOAw/Q6S8hh4=; Message-ID: <613003.63507.qm@web83901.mail.sp1.yahoo.com> X-YMail-OSG: U3bJXi0VM1n1zW1wOfSmoTuveBiGW6EgzxB2RvQlx.WIi0L XYxIcOEP_RbVKYaWfSFzgWNoGVXkkXCxzPErVM5dtkEreG3LPud4PDSCRpjO GvFsmsYGl61l3ZGodViuM3Th1DiT9MWaFNesUx8Sv1kxusQ0ccAptkT8TmnN cUIW6rB5DJXSYpmtTe07C5NboRiEvrmJG4x05YXy2dQPQGbiMvviMbizyGvr nMiOzmjteQXYSJgOscwlNB8BhsHr5_Kr.bxzDF0CDOtanu1sLdyspjU5LR3c oYA.Bsg87ZX7Mev3y0gcK1DUZB4VfsOXxzt4QgzZ9t2TJpC_UEfTaWc_8P.7 VA04RfHB9Zc7CO09a Received: from [208.114.42.152] by web83901.mail.sp1.yahoo.com via HTTP; Tue, 26 Apr 2011 16:48:59 PDT X-Mailer: YahooMailRC/559 YahooMailWebService/0.8.110.299900 Date: Tue, 26 Apr 2011 16:48:59 -0700 (PDT) From: Kelly Troyer Subject: Re: Mistral 'Like' Intake To: Rotary motors in aircraft MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="0-990252212-1303861739=:63507" --0-990252212-1303861739=:63507 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Jarrett,=0A=0A=A0=A0 Best price I have found=A0thus far..............Aircra= ft Spruce part #08-3600 , =0A$268.95 (US) for a complete =0A=0Aset of 4 and= spacers..................=0A=0A=0Ahttp://www.aircraftspruce.com/menus/ep/m= ounts.html=0A=0Ahttp://www.aircraftspruce.com/catalog/eppages/heavydutydyna= focal.php=0A=A0=0AKelly Troyer=0A"DYKE DELTA JD2" (Eventually)=0A"13B ROTAR= Y"_ Engine=0A"RWS"_RD1C/EC2/EM2=0A"MISTRAL"_Backplate/Oil Manifold=0A"TURBO= NETICS"_TO4E50 Turbo=0A=0A=0A=0A=0A________________________________=0AFrom:= H & J Johnson =0ATo: Rotary motors in aircraft =0ASent: Tue, April 26, 2011 6:01:37 PM=0ASubject:= [FlyRotary] Re: Mistral 'Like' Intake=0A=0A=0AHaha...=A0 first though thro= ugh my brain was it prob would be easier, but if the =0Amajority of kits no= w ship w/ Dynafocal and the expectation is that I want to =0Aproduce a bolt= on replacement option. Then the Dynafocal units is where it all =0Aneeds t= o start. The Conical ones very well could=A0use cheaper rubbers but the =0A= potential loss of interest due to the older mount style probably out-weighs= the =0Abenifit? Also didn't someone come up w/ a cheap solution for the is= olation =0Arubbers on the Dynafocal units [possibly on Pauls List?]?=A0 I'v= e never priced =0Athem but if they are that steep then I'll just have to fi= nd a supplier and start =0Aselling my own :). It wouldn't be the first rubb= er product I've created and=A0had =0Abuilt specifically=A0for me.=A0[well m= y employer, but 'my' project]=0AWhere does it end :)=A0 the short answer is= probably never...=A0 :)=0AI can't thank you guys enough for all the intel = you've sent my way.=0A=0AJarrett Johnson =0Awww.innovention-tech.com =0A=0A= ----- Original Message ----- From: Kelly Troyer Date: Tues= day, =0AApril 26, 2011 4:32 pm Subject: [FlyRotary] Re: Mistral 'Like' Inta= ke > Jarrett, =0A=0A> =A0=A0=A0 Charlie may be on to something here about t= he "Conical" =0A> parallel =0A> mount..........gives you =0A> =0A> more to = mull over.................<:) (just what you need)=A0 =0A> =A0 =0A> Kelly T= royer =0A> "DYKE DELTA JD2" (Eventually) =0A> "13B ROTARY"_ Engine =0A> "RW= S"_RD1C/EC2/EM2 =0A> "MISTRAL"_Backplate/Oil Manifold =0A> "TURBONETICS"_TO= 4E50 Turbo =0A> =0A> =0A> =0A> =0A> ________________________________ =0A> F= rom: Charlie England =0A> To: Rotary motors in ai= rcraft =0A> Sent: Tue, April 26, 2011 5:06:54= PM =0A> Subject: [FlyRotary] Re: Mistral 'Like' Intake =0A> =0A> 2nd Kelly= 's opinion. the info I have said type 2 was for engines =0A> with *extended= =0A> hub* constant speed prop (~2 1/2" beyond a normal constant speed), = =0A> which moves =0A> the cg forward a lot. Van's no longer even supplies t= ype 2 mounts =0A> because they =0A> are so rare. =0A> =0A> =0A> IMO, the on= ly reason to do dynafocal at all is because the mounts =0A> are so common. = =0A> the old 'conical' style mount (4 parallel bolts) would be just =0A> fi= ne for a rotary =0A> with its inherently smooth operation. The reason Lyc d= id the =0A> dynafocal was an =0A> attempt to damp their flat 4's horrendous= vibration pattern (not =0A> that =0A> effective...). The conical mount Lyc= motors can be converted to =0A> dynafocal by an =0A> engine shop, implying= that the bolt circle is virtually identical. =0A> The downside =0A> to dyn= afocal is that the rubbers cost about a factor of 10-15 more =0A> money tha= n =0A> conical mount rubbers. Less than $30 for a set of conical; $300- =0A= > $500 for =0A> dynafocal. =0A> =0A> =0A> I still have available the dyna r= ing off my original RV motor =0A> mount, if there's =0A> a scanning shop in= Jackson MS. If you can find a shop, let me know =0A> & I'll take =0A> it t= here for a scan. =0A> =0A> To address the concern about attachment strength= : with a new =0A> housing, it should =0A> be relatively simple to add a pie= ce to grab the top of the middle =0A> iron or even =0A> the bellhousing fla= nge top bolts if you're really paranoid. I'm no =0A> engineer, but =0A> I'd= think that there is plenty of bolt & aluminum area to take the =0A> shear = loads; =0A> the only question in my mind would be the bolts at the top that= =0A> will be in =0A> tension in the cast iron casting. I have a hard time = believing =0A> that 6 gs could =0A> stretch the 4 or 5 bolts across the top= of the 'stack' enough to =0A> affect the =0A> engine, at the relatively lo= w power levels that will be used in =0A> a/c. (I'm =0A> strictly talking ab= out 2 rotor engines, not the 3+ rotor versions.) =0A> =0A> Charlie =0A> =0A= > On 4/26/2011 9:04 AM, Kelly Troyer wrote: =0A> Jarrett, =0A> > =0A> >=A0= =A0=A0=A0 The "Mistral" 13B engine (and their 20B)=A0CG of 9.44 and =0A> 11= .73=A0 inches =0A> >respectively=A0was=A0complete with =0A> > =0A> >all acc= essories and=A0redrive (which is heavier than Tracy's=A0RD1X =0A> re-drives= of=A044 =0A> >lbs)................The addition =0A> >of a constant speed (= with normal extension) would still keep the =0A> Type 1, 30 =0A> >degree fo= cal point of=A014.373" =0A> >in front of the 13B CG (IMHO)...........The 20= B CG with normal =0A> constant speed =0A> >would have to be calculated =0A>= >to see if it remained within the Type 1, 30 degree 14.373" focal =0A> >po= int..............The type 2,18 degree seems =0A> >to have been used only on= a specific 0-320 model installed in the =0A> twin Comanche =0A> >(That doe= s not keep your =0A> >Lancair=A0from having=A0this engine installed).......= ........... =0A> > =0A> >=A0=A0=A0 =0A> >Kelly Troyer =0A> >"DYKE DELTA JD2= " (Eventually) =0A> >"13B ROTARY"_ Engine =0A> >"RWS"_RD1C/EC2/EM2 =0A> >"M= ISTRAL"_Backplate/Oil Manifold =0A> >"TURBONETICS"_TO4E50 Turbo =0A> > =0A>= > =0A> > =0A> > =0A> > =0A> ________________________________ =0A> From: H = & J Johnson =0A> >To: Rotary motors in aircraft =0A> >Sent: Tue, April 26, 2011 2:36:54 AM =0A> = >Subject: [FlyRotary] Re: Mistral 'Like' Intake =0A> > =0A> >=A0Interesting= . I may very well be wrong but for some reason I had =0A> it in my head =0A= > >[once it was jared by Bills mention of Type 2] that the Type 2's =0A> we= re usually =0A> >used for engines w/ constant speed [due to weight] and the= type =0A> 1's were used =0A> >mainly for fixed pitch. [old wives tale?]=A0= I would think that due =0A> to our extra =0A> >weight out front on the nose= a Type 2 would be more in order. =0A> Having said that, =0A> >I have no id= ea where the CofG on a 13B is located and how that =0A> relates to the =0A>= >various focal points. In addition, how adding a PSRU on the nose =0A> wou= ld impact =0A> >the CofG [and or a electricl pitch prop etc].=A0 I'll have = to do =0A> some reading and =0A> >see what I can dig up.=A0 Certainly a goo= d place to start w/ as far =0A> as a ground up =0A> >design on the mounting= housing. =0A> > =0A> >Lynn, re: Strength of the Connection. =0A> >I rememb= er you stating some of those points a while back. I'm =0A> wondering if, in= =0A> >our lower power state, these are as much a concern as they are in = =0A> the racing =0A> >world? It would certainly be possible to add extra pa= rts to the =0A> install [the =0A> >thickened bottom plate, or perhaps some = form of a stiffener that =0A> locks the block =0A> >from torque related mov= ement front to back=A0 { all just thoughts =0A> flashing through =0A> >my b= rain, RHRN}. I've not heard comment about how Mistral =0A> addressed this [= or if =0A> >it was a concern of theirs?]. =0A> >Kelly, do you know of any a= dditional connection points [dowels or =0A> pins etc] that =0A> >were neede= d for the instal of a Mistral housing?=A0 =0A> >It certainly is not my firs= t 'pick' to have a mounting housing =0A> which needs =0A> >modifications to= a short block, to allow it to be installed. =0A> > =0A> > =0A> >Jarrett Jo= hnson =0A> >www.innovention-tech.com =0A> >=A0 =0A> >Jarrett and Bill, =0A>= >=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0 Here is the source of my "Dynafocal" mount info.......= ........ =0A> >=A0 =0A> >Kelly Troyer =0A> >"DYKE DELTA JD2"(Eventually) = =0A> >"13B ROTARY"_ Engine =0A> >"RWS"_RD1C/EC2/EM2 =0A> >"MISTRAL"_Backpla= te/Oil Manifold =0A> >"TURBONETICS"_TO4E50 Turbo =0A> > =0A> > =0A> > =0A> = > =0A> > =0A> ________________________________ =0A> From: Kelly Troyer =0A> >To: Rotary motors in aircraft =0A> >Sent: Mon, April 25, 2011 10:37:25 PM =0A> >Subject: [FlyRotary] = Re: Mistral 'Like' Intake =0A> > =0A> > =0A> >Bill, =0A> >=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0 = =A0My info says the Type 2 ,18 degree was introduced when O- =0A> 320's wer= e put =0A> >in twin Comanches =0A> >with extra long constant speed prop ext= ensions (for a more =0A> streamlined =0A> >cowl)............This then put = =0A> >the engine CG further forward so to keep the Dynafocal mount =0A> "Fo= cal" point =0A> >slightly ahead of the =0A> >engine CG the Dynafocal mount = angle was reduced from 30 degrees =0A> to 18 =0A> >degrees......... =0A> > = =0A> >=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0 The Dynafocal type 1 focal point is 14.323 inches fro= m the =0A> >mounts..................The "Mistral" 13B =0A> >engine CG is 9.= 44 inches from the mount so should work well with =0A> the type 1, 30 =0A> = >degree=A0Dynafocal =0A> >mount..............IMHO=A0 =0A> >=A0 =0A> >Kelly = Troyer =0A> >"DYKE DELTA JD2"(Eventually) =0A> >"13B ROTARY"_ Engine =0A> >= "RWS"_RD1C/EC2/EM2 =0A> >"MISTRAL"_Backplate/Oil Manifold =0A> >"TURBONETIC= S"_TO4E50 Turbo =0A> > =0A> > =0A> > =0A> > =0A> > =0A> ___________________= _____________ =0A> From: Bill Bradburry =0A> >To= : Rotary motors in aircraft =0A> >Sent: Mon, = April 25, 2011 10:13:02 PM =0A> >Subject: [FlyRotary] Re: Mistral 'Like' In= take =0A> > =0A> > =0A> >There is also a Type 2 Dynafocal that I think is i= n more common =0A> usage.=A0 If I =0A> >recall the angle on it is 17 degree= s. =0A> >=A0 =0A> >Bill B =0A> >=A0 =0A> > =0A> ___________________________= _____ =0A> =0A> >From:Rotary motors in aircraft [flyrotary@lancaironline.ne= t] On =0A> Behalf Of =0A> >Kelly Troyer =0A> >Sent: Monday, April 25, 2011 = 4:57 PM =0A> >To: Rotary motors in aircraft =0A> >Subject: [FlyRotary] Re: = Mistral 'Like' Intake =0A> >=A0 =0A> >Jarrett, =0A> >=A0 =0A> >=A0=A0=A0=A0= I found the "Dynafocal" info................Was on my other =0A> computer = =0A> >!!.................. =0A> >=A0 =0A> >Kelly Troyer =0A> >"DYKE DELTA J= D2"(Eventually) =0A> >"13B ROTARY"_ Engine =0A> >"RWS"_RD1C/EC2/EM2 =0A> >"= MISTRAL"_Backplate/Oil Manifold =0A> >"TURBONETICS"_TO4E50 Turbo =0A> >=A0 = =0A> >=A0 =0A> > =0A> ________________________________ =0A> =0A> >From:H & = J Johnson =0A> >To: Rotary motors in aircraft =0A> >Sent: Mon, April 25, 2011 11:21:48 AM =0A> >= Subject: [FlyRotary] Re: Mistral 'Like' Intake =0A> >The scanning should gi= ve in the tens of thousands [0.01"] or less =0A> depending on =0A> >what ty= pe of equipement used etc.=A0=A0 That in conjunction w/ bolt =0A> hold plac= ement =0A> >that I already have [lots of collected data over the years] I = =0A> should be able to =0A> >duplicate the basic geometry. From there it wi= ll become a new =0A> product in that we =0A> >want to make it=A0something t= hat=A0works for everyone [or as many as =0A> possible] to =0A> >make it a v= iable unit. That info, mixed w/ knowing what the =0A> 'Standard' mount =0A>= >geometry is should get us where we need to go. =0A> >Best regards =0A> > = =0A> >Jarrett Johnson =0A> >www.innovention-tech.com =0A> >----- Original M= essage ----- =0A> >From: Kelly Troyer =0A> >Date: Monday, = April 25, 2011 10:03 am =0A> >Subject: [FlyRotary] Re: Mistral 'Like' Intak= e =0A> >> Jarrett, =0A> >> =0A> >> =A0=A0=A0=A0=A0 I do not know exactly=A0= what dimensions the scanning give =0A> you =0A> >> such as bolt =0A> >> hol= e placement, etc.........I presumed =0A> >> that the angles of the mount ea= rs needed for the "Dynafoal" =0A> mounts =0A> >> would be =0A> >> "Dead" on= though.......... =0A> >> =0A> >> =0A> >> Kelly Troyer =0A> >> "DYKE DELTA = JD2" (Eventually) =0A> >> "13B ROTARY"_ Engine =0A> >> "RWS"_RD1C/EC2/EM2 = =0A> >> "MISTRAL"_Backplate/Oil Manifold =0A> >> "TURBONETICS"_TO4E50 Turbo= =0A> >> =0A> >> =0A> >> =0A> >> =0A> >> ________________________________ = =0A> >> From: H & J Johnson =0A> >> To: Rotary moto= rs in aircraft =0A> >> Sent: Mon, April 25, 2= 011 10:49:43 AM =0A> >> Subject: [FlyRotary] Re: Mistral 'Like' Intake =0A>= >> =0A> >> =A0Excellent, now I just need to get some Dynafocal dimensions = =0A> [I've =0A> >> seen it on =0A> >> the web in the past, just gotta re-lo= cate the dimensional =0A> >> 'standards']. That in =0A> >> conjunction w/ a= few scans & the picture will start to really =0A> take =0A> >> shape! =0A>= >> =0A> >> I love progress :) =0A> >> I can't say Thanks enough Kelly, w/o= ut the help of yourself and =0A> >> others it would =0A> >> be a much steep= er curve to get it up to speed. =0A> >> =0A> >> Jarrett Johnson =0A> >> www= .innovention-tech.com =0A> >> --=A0 Homepage:=A0 http://www.flyrotary.com/= =A0 Archive and UnSub:=A0=A0 =0A> >> http://mail.lancaironline.net:81/lists= /flyrotary/List.html =0A> >> =0A> >--=A0 =0A> =0A-- Homepage: http://www.= flyrotary.com/ Archive and UnSub: =0Ahttp://mail.lancaironline.net:81/li= sts/flyrotary/List.html --0-990252212-1303861739=:63507 Content-Type: text/html; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
=0A
=0A
Jarrett,
=0A
 
=0A
 &= nbsp; Best price I have found thus far..............Aircraft Spruce pa= rt #08-3600 , $268.95 (US) for a complete
=0A
set of 4 and spacer= s..................
=0A
 
=0A
 
=0A
ht= tp://www.aircraftspruce.com/menus/ep/mounts.html
=0A
 
= =0A
http://www.aircraftspruce.com/catalog/eppages/heavydutydynafocal.ph= p
 
=0A

Kelly Troyer
"DYKE DELTA J= D2" (Eventually)

=0A

"13B ROTARY= "_ Engine
"RWS"_RD1C/EC2/EM2
"MISTRAL"_Backplate/Oil Manifold

=0A<= P>"TURBONETICS"_TO4E50 Turbo

=0A

=0A

=0A
=0A
=0AFrom: H & J Johnson <hjjohnson@sasktel.net>
= To: Rotary motors in aircraft = <flyrotary@lancaironline.net>
Sent: Tue, April 26, 2011 6:01:37 PM
Subject: [FlyRotary] Re: Mistral 'Like' Intake
=
=0A

Haha...  first though through my brain was it prob wo= uld be easier, but if the majority of kits now ship w/ Dynafocal and the ex= pectation is that I want to produce a bolt on replacement option. Then the = Dynafocal units is where it all needs to start. The Conical ones very well = could use cheaper rubbers but the potential loss of interest due to th= e older mount style probably out-weighs the benifit? Also didn't someone co= me up w/ a cheap solution for the isolation rubbers on the Dynafocal units = [possibly on Pauls List?]?  I've never priced them but if they are tha= t steep then I'll just have to find a supplier and start selling my own :).= It wouldn't be the first rubber product I've created and had built sp= ecifically for me. [well my employer, but 'my' project]

=0A

= Where does it end :)  the short answer is probably never...  :)=0A

I can't thank you guys enough for all the intel you've sent my way.=

Jarrett Johnson
www.innovention-tech.com

=0A

----- Original Message ----- =0A

From: Kelly Troye= r <keltro@att.net> =0A

Date: Tuesday, April 26, 2011 4:3= 2 pm =0A

Subject: [FlyRotary] Re: Mistral 'Like' Intake =0A

=

=0A

> Jarrett,
>     Charlie may be on t= o something here about the "Conical"
> parallel
> mount......= ....gives you
>
> more to mull over.................<:) (j= ust what you need) 
>  
> Kelly Troyer
> "DY= KE DELTA JD2" (Eventually)
> "13B ROTARY"_ Engine
> "RWS"_RD1= C/EC2/EM2
> "MISTRAL"_Backplate/Oil Manifold
> "TURBONETICS"_= TO4E50 Turbo
>
>
>
>
> _________________= _______________
> From: Charlie England <ceengland@bellsouth.net&= gt;
> To: Rotary motors in aircraft <flyrotary@lancaironline.net&= gt;
> Sent: Tue, April 26, 2011 5:06:54 PM
> Subject: [FlyRot= ary] Re: Mistral 'Like' Intake
>
> 2nd Kelly's opinion. the i= nfo I have said type 2 was for engines
> with *extended
> hub= * constant speed prop (~2 1/2" beyond a normal constant speed),
> which moves
> the cg forward a lot. Van's no longer even supplies t= ype 2 mounts
> because they
> are so rare.
>
> =
> IMO, the only reason to do dynafocal at all is because the mounts =
> are so common.
> the old 'conical' style mount (4 parallel = bolts) would be just
> fine for a rotary
> with its inherentl= y smooth operation. The reason Lyc did the
> dynafocal was an
&g= t; attempt to damp their flat 4's horrendous vibration pattern (not
>= ; that
> effective...). The conical mount Lyc motors can be converte= d to
> dynafocal by an
> engine shop, implying that the bolt = circle is virtually identical.
> The downside
> to dynafocal = is that the rubbers cost about a factor of 10-15 more
> money than <= BR>> conical mount rubbers. Less than $30 for a set of conical; $300- > $500 for
> dynafocal.
>
>
> I still have available the dyna ring off my original RV motor
> mount= , if there's
> a scanning shop in Jackson MS. If you can find a shop= , let me know
> & I'll take
> it there for a scan.
&g= t;
> To address the concern about attachment strength: with a new > housing, it should
> be relatively simple to add a piece to g= rab the top of the middle
> iron or even
> the bellhousing fl= ange top bolts if you're really paranoid. I'm no
> engineer, but > I'd think that there is plenty of bolt & aluminum area to take th= e
> shear loads;
> the only question in my mind would be the = bolts at the top that
> will be in
> tension in the cast iron= casting. I have a hard time believing
> that 6 gs could
> st= retch the 4 or 5 bolts across the top of the 'stack' enough to
> aff= ect the
> engine, at the relatively low power levels that will be used in
> a/c. (I'm
> strictly talking about 2 rotor= engines, not the 3+ rotor versions.)
>
> Charlie
> > On 4/26/2011 9:04 AM, Kelly Troyer wrote:
> Jarrett,
>= >
> >     The "Mistral" 13B engine (and t= heir 20B) CG of 9.44 and
> 11.73  inches
> >resp= ectively was complete with
> >
> >all accesso= ries and redrive (which is heavier than Tracy's RD1X
> re-= drives of 44
> >lbs)................The addition
> &g= t;of a constant speed (with normal extension) would still keep the
>= Type 1, 30
> >degree focal point of 14.373"
> >in= front of the 13B CG (IMHO)...........The 20B CG with normal
> const= ant speed
> >would have to be calculated
> >to see if i= t remained within the Type 1, 30 degree 14.373" focal
> >point..............The type 2,18 degree seems
> >to have bee= n used only on a specific 0-320 model installed in the
> twin Comanc= he
> >(That does not keep your
> >Lancair from hav= ing this engine installed)..................
> >
> &g= t;   
> >Kelly Troyer
> >"DYKE DELTA JD2= " (Eventually)
> >"13B ROTARY"_ Engine
> >"RWS"_RD1C/EC= 2/EM2
> >"MISTRAL"_Backplate/Oil Manifold
> >"TURBONETI= CS"_TO4E50 Turbo
> >
> >
> >
> > > >
> ________________________________
> From: H &= ; J Johnson <hjjohnson@sasktel.net>
> >To: Rotary motors in= aircraft <flyrotary@lancaironline.net>
> >Sent: Tue, April= 26, 2011 2:36:54 AM
> >Subject: [FlyRotary] Re: Mistral 'Like' I= ntake
> >
> > Interesting. I may very well be wrong but for some reason I had
> it in my head
> >[on= ce it was jared by Bills mention of Type 2] that the Type 2's
> were= usually
> >used for engines w/ constant speed [due to weight] an= d the type
> 1's were used
> >mainly for fixed pitch. [old= wives tale?] I would think that due
> to our extra
> &g= t;weight out front on the nose a Type 2 would be more in order.
> Ha= ving said that,
> >I have no idea where the CofG on a 13B is loca= ted and how that
> relates to the
> >various focal points.= In addition, how adding a PSRU on the nose
> would impact
> = >the CofG [and or a electricl pitch prop etc].  I'll have to do > some reading and
> >see what I can dig up.  Certainly = a good place to start w/ as far
> as a ground up
> >design= on the mounting housing.
> >
> >Lynn, re: Strength of the Connection.
> >I remember you stating some of th= ose points a while back. I'm
> wondering if, in
> >our low= er power state, these are as much a concern as they are in
> the rac= ing
> >world? It would certainly be possible to add extra parts t= o the
> install [the
> >thickened bottom plate, or perhaps= some form of a stiffener that
> locks the block
> >from t= orque related movement front to back  { all just thoughts
> fla= shing through
> >my brain, RHRN}. I've not heard comment about ho= w Mistral
> addressed this [or if
> >it was a concern of t= heirs?].
> >Kelly, do you know of any additional connection point= s [dowels or
> pins etc] that
> >were needed for the insta= l of a Mistral housing? 
> >It certainly is not my first 'pi= ck' to have a mounting housing
> which needs
> >modifications to a short block, to allow it to be installed.
> = >
> >
> >Jarrett Johnson
> >www.innoventio= n-tech.com
> > 
> >Jarrett and Bill,
> >=        Here is the source of my "Dynafocal" m= ount info...............
> > 
> >Kelly Troyer
= > >"DYKE DELTA JD2"(Eventually)
> >"13B ROTARY"_ Engine > >"RWS"_RD1C/EC2/EM2
> >"MISTRAL"_Backplate/Oil Manifold =
> >"TURBONETICS"_TO4E50 Turbo
> >
> >
>= ; >
> >
> >
> _______________________________= _
> From: Kelly Troyer <keltro@att.net>
> >To: Rotar= y motors in aircraft <flyrotary@lancaironline.net>
> >Sent:= Mon, April 25, 2011 10:37:25 PM
> >Subject: [FlyRotary] Re: Mist= ral 'Like' Intake
> >
> >
> >Bill,
> >       My info says the Type 2 = ,18 degree was introduced when O-
> 320's were put
> >in t= win Comanches
> >with extra long constant speed prop extensions (= for a more
> streamlined
> >cowl)............This then put=
> >the engine CG further forward so to keep the Dynafocal mount =
> "Focal" point
> >slightly ahead of the
> >engi= ne CG the Dynafocal mount angle was reduced from 30 degrees
> to 18 =
> >degrees.........
> >
> >   =    The Dynafocal type 1 focal point is 14.323 inches from the > >mounts..................The "Mistral" 13B
> >engine CG = is 9.44 inches from the mount so should work well with
> the type 1,= 30
> >degree Dynafocal
> >mount..............IMHO=  
> > 
> >Kelly Troyer
> >"DYKE DELTA JD2"(Eventually)
> >"13B ROTARY"_ Engine
>= ; >"RWS"_RD1C/EC2/EM2
> >"MISTRAL"_Backplate/Oil Manifold
= > >"TURBONETICS"_TO4E50 Turbo
> >
> >
> &g= t;
> >
> >
> ________________________________ > From: Bill Bradburry <bbradburry@bellsouth.net>
> >T= o: Rotary motors in aircraft <flyrotary@lancaironline.net>
> &= gt;Sent: Mon, April 25, 2011 10:13:02 PM
> >Subject: [FlyRotary] = Re: Mistral 'Like' Intake
> >
> >
> >There is= also a Type 2 Dynafocal that I think is in more common
> usage.&nbs= p; If I
> >recall the angle on it is 17 degrees.
> >&nb= sp;
> >Bill B
> > 
> >
> ________= ________________________
>
> >From:Rotary motors in aircra= ft [flyrotary@lancaironline.net] On
> Behalf Of
> >Kelly Troyer
> >Sent: Monday, April 25, 2011 4:57 PM
>= ; >To: Rotary motors in aircraft
> >Subject: [FlyRotary] Re: M= istral 'Like' Intake
> > 
> >Jarrett,
> >= ; 
> >     I found the "Dynafocal" info.= ...............Was on my other
> computer
> >!!...........= .......
> > 
> >Kelly Troyer
> >"DYKE DE= LTA JD2"(Eventually)
> >"13B ROTARY"_ Engine
> >"RWS"_R= D1C/EC2/EM2
> >"MISTRAL"_Backplate/Oil Manifold
> >"TUR= BONETICS"_TO4E50 Turbo
> > 
> > 
> >= ;
> ________________________________
>
> >From:H &a= mp; J Johnson <hjjohnson@sasktel.net>
> >To: Rotary motors = in aircraft <flyrotary@lancaironline.net>
> >Sent: Mon, Apr= il 25, 2011 11:21:48 AM
> >Subject: [FlyRotary] Re: Mistral 'Like' Intake
> >The scanning should give in the tens of= thousands [0.01"] or less
> depending on
> >what type of = equipement used etc.   That in conjunction w/ bolt
> hold = placement
> >that I already have [lots of collected data over the= years] I
> should be able to
> >duplicate the basic geome= try. From there it will become a new
> product in that we
> &= gt;want to make it something that works for everyone [or as many = as
> possible] to
> >make it a viable unit. That info, mix= ed w/ knowing what the
> 'Standard' mount
> >geometry is s= hould get us where we need to go.
> >Best regards
> > <= BR>> >Jarrett Johnson
> >www.innovention-tech.com
> = >----- Original Message -----
> >From: Kelly Troyer <keltro= @att.net>
> >Date: Monday, April 25, 2011 10:03 am
> >Subject: [FlyRotary] Re: Mistral 'Like' Intake
> >&= gt; Jarrett,
> >>
> >>     &n= bsp; I do not know exactly what dimensions the scanning give
> = you
> >> such as bolt
> >> hole placement, etc...= ......I presumed
> >> that the angles of the mount ears needed= for the "Dynafoal"
> mounts
> >> would be
> >= ;> "Dead" on though..........
> >>
> >>
&g= t; >> Kelly Troyer
> >> "DYKE DELTA JD2" (Eventually) > >> "13B ROTARY"_ Engine
> >> "RWS"_RD1C/EC2/EM2 <= BR>> >> "MISTRAL"_Backplate/Oil Manifold
> >> "TURBON= ETICS"_TO4E50 Turbo
> >>
> >>
> >> <= BR>> >>
> >> ________________________________
>= ; >> From: H & J Johnson <hjjohnson@sasktel.net>
> >> To: Rotary motors in aircraft <flyrotary@lancaironlin= e.net>
> >> Sent: Mon, April 25, 2011 10:49:43 AM
> = >> Subject: [FlyRotary] Re: Mistral 'Like' Intake
> >> <= BR>> >>  Excellent, now I just need to get some Dynafocal dim= ensions
> [I've
> >> seen it on
> >> the w= eb in the past, just gotta re-locate the dimensional
> >> 'sta= ndards']. That in
> >> conjunction w/ a few scans & the pi= cture will start to really
> take
> >> shape!
> = >>
> >> I love progress :)
> >> I can't say= Thanks enough Kelly, w/out the help of yourself and
> >> othe= rs it would
> >> be a much steeper curve to get it up to speed= .
> >>
> >> Jarrett Johnson
> >> www= .innovention-tech.com
> >> --  Homepage:  http://www.flyrotary.com/  Archive and UnSub:  
> &g= t;> http://mail.lancaironline.net:81/lists/flyrotary/List.html
> = >>
> >-- 
> =0A

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