X-Virus-Scanned: clean according to Sophos on Logan.com Return-Path: Received: from nm1-vm0.access.bullet.mail.sp2.yahoo.com ([98.139.44.94] verified) by logan.com (CommuniGate Pro SMTP 5.4c3j) with SMTP id 4957817 for flyrotary@lancaironline.net; Tue, 26 Apr 2011 10:04:37 -0400 Received-SPF: none receiver=logan.com; client-ip=98.139.44.94; envelope-from=keltro@att.net Received: from [98.139.44.102] by nm1.access.bullet.mail.sp2.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 26 Apr 2011 14:04:02 -0000 Received: from [98.139.44.68] by tm7.access.bullet.mail.sp2.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 26 Apr 2011 14:04:02 -0000 Received: from [127.0.0.1] by omp1005.access.mail.sp2.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 26 Apr 2011 14:04:02 -0000 X-Yahoo-Newman-Property: ymail-3 X-Yahoo-Newman-Id: 66383.58648.bm@omp1005.access.mail.sp2.yahoo.com Received: (qmail 58908 invoked by uid 60001); 26 Apr 2011 14:04:01 -0000 DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=att.net; s=s1024; t=1303826641; bh=q/Yn2uE1on6H4iBw2p5cLqI1Om0szsAHXYbFZ8Xptgs=; h=Message-ID:X-YMail-OSG:Received:X-Mailer:References:Date:From:Subject:To:In-Reply-To:MIME-Version:Content-Type; b=6REA9VGOjsYXO9+Zoj9q8DIB/+er8y6+5MlJ6qomY8pZl/6CrjvhPe6MhK7ON4/Qawi+9zrPjtHPv1WZakWClAeXkqPXedfJHdoQDTVgxDLJB/iarchJGGGxwaRJfW9HrC+pnTotk6KziHO2oVxGmWEbYipwp4f2RIC11I1gZTQ= DomainKey-Signature:a=rsa-sha1; q=dns; c=nofws; s=s1024; d=att.net; h=Message-ID:X-YMail-OSG:Received:X-Mailer:References:Date:From:Subject:To:In-Reply-To:MIME-Version:Content-Type; b=uw0fRK8hBx8vrCif99uzWg4NjuA6YVLIEYOghzjpVnwY6gf+9CXHL2Y/pv0q1SOWfUTjJXSC1OEsio0EWCIge6g2r3AgB2pvGSB9v/WYOOS/5ZsGHTc/6LoJpzAUdL3hzTHgJLenhyFaBbu/zvIhwPXbEX58r2rdnP5Yhr5pQqo=; Message-ID: <293699.54325.qm@web83902.mail.sp1.yahoo.com> X-YMail-OSG: .sVy6HIVM1kBNPQXByBae7.HHhRXoko0pLv4uyQ5IrV2mE5 YAzM5cjhAAGkurD6QIVsRe3LutSNoYBEhOcCGxkbvIEvh093nPmMFYTio9ju 31g39ZoM2PV9byQC90owloWpMrl7GTEMwcxCWnh_6hYXEo6JhdhuHVLywjWw e2WGxCe5JnLDRiF0Zh9Q9rYYn07Aei.e4X0GnQzQmWLWBSISIEQCmil02qVT 9o45fPxs_Oq0C8_pGjQtw112pQwWpFGCAt7GhVdFgprjoS1gc4BNuOgevl1C SWERXR61ahKduLVrsg5tngm1DzsEtVV9sBbdEyILDjBBvJ.EQYBcbNODg7.a uq.3G1ObOgXMwtfx2 Received: from [208.114.42.152] by web83902.mail.sp1.yahoo.com via HTTP; Tue, 26 Apr 2011 07:04:01 PDT X-Mailer: YahooMailRC/559 YahooMailWebService/0.8.110.299900 References: Date: Tue, 26 Apr 2011 07:04:01 -0700 (PDT) From: Kelly Troyer Subject: Re: Mistral 'Like' Intake To: Rotary motors in aircraft In-Reply-To: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="0-1902801938-1303826641=:54325" --0-1902801938-1303826641=:54325 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Jarrett,=0A=0A=A0=A0=A0=A0 The "Mistral" 13B engine (and their 20B)=A0CG of= 9.44 and 11.73=A0 inches =0Arespectively=A0was=A0complete with =0A=0Aall a= ccessories and=A0redrive (which is heavier than Tracy's=A0RD1X re-drives of= =A044 =0Albs)................The addition=0Aof a constant speed (with norma= l extension) would still keep the Type 1, 30 =0Adegree focal point of=A014.= 373"=0Ain front of the 13B CG (IMHO)...........The 20B CG with normal const= ant speed =0Awould have to be calculated=0Ato see if it remained within the= Type 1, 30 degree 14.373" focal =0Apoint..............The type 2,18 degree= seems=0Ato have been used only on a specific 0-320 model installed in the = twin Comanche =0A(That does not keep your=0ALancair=A0from having=A0this en= gine installed)..................=0A=0A=A0=A0=A0=0AKelly Troyer=0A"DYKE DEL= TA JD2" (Eventually)=0A"13B ROTARY"_ Engine=0A"RWS"_RD1C/EC2/EM2=0A"MISTRAL= "_Backplate/Oil Manifold=0A"TURBONETICS"_TO4E50 Turbo=0A=0A=0A=0A=0A_______= _________________________=0AFrom: H & J Johnson =0AT= o: Rotary motors in aircraft =0ASent: Tue, Apr= il 26, 2011 2:36:54 AM=0ASubject: [FlyRotary] Re: Mistral 'Like' Intake=0A= =0A=A0Interesting. I may very well be wrong but for some reason I had it in= my head =0A[once it was jared by Bills mention of Type 2] that the Type 2'= s were usually =0Aused for engines w/ constant speed [due to weight] and th= e type 1's were used =0Amainly for fixed pitch. [old wives tale?]=A0I would= think that due to our extra =0Aweight out front on the nose a Type 2 would= be more in order. Having said that, =0AI have no idea where the CofG on a = 13B is located and how that relates to the =0Avarious focal points. In addi= tion, how adding a PSRU on the nose would impact =0Athe CofG [and or a elec= tricl pitch prop etc].=A0 I'll have to do some reading and =0Asee what I ca= n dig up.=A0 Certainly a good place to start w/ as far as a ground up =0Ade= sign on the mounting housing. =0A=0ALynn, re: Strength of the Connection.= =0AI remember you stating some of those points a while back. I'm wondering = if, in =0Aour lower power state, these are as much a concern as they are in= the racing =0Aworld? It would certainly be possible to add extra parts to = the install [the =0Athickened bottom plate, or perhaps some form of a stiff= ener that locks the block =0Afrom torque related movement front to back=A0 = { all just thoughts flashing through =0Amy brain, RHRN}. I've not heard com= ment about how Mistral addressed this [or if =0Ait was a concern of theirs?= ].=0AKelly, do you know of any additional connection points [dowels or pins= etc] that =0Awere needed for the instal of a Mistral housing?=A0=0AIt cert= ainly is not my first 'pick' to have a mounting housing which needs =0Amodi= fications to a short block, to allow it to be installed.=0A=0A=A0=0A=0A____= ____________________________=0A=0A--=0AHomepage:=A0 http://www.flyrotary.co= m/=0AArchive and UnSub:=A0=A0 http://mail.lancaironline.net:81/lists/flyrot= ary/List.html=0A =0A=0A=0A-- Homepage: http://www.flyrotary.com/ Arc= hive and UnSub: =0Ahttp://mail.lancaironline.net:81/lists/flyrotary/List.= html=0AJarrett and Bill,=0A=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0 Here is the source of my "Dyn= afocal" mount info...............=0A=A0=0AKelly Troyer=0A"DYKE DELTA JD2"(E= ventually)=0A"13B ROTARY"_ Engine=0A"RWS"_RD1C/EC2/EM2=0A"MISTRAL"_Backplat= e/Oil Manifold=0A"TURBONETICS"_TO4E50 Turbo=0A=0A=0A=0A=0A_________________= _______________=0AFrom: Kelly Troyer =0ATo: Rotary motors i= n aircraft =0ASent: Mon, April 25, 2011 10:37:= 25 PM=0ASubject: [FlyRotary] Re: Mistral 'Like' Intake=0A=0A=0ABill,=0A=A0= =A0=A0=A0=A0 =A0My info says the Type 2 ,18 degree was introduced when O-32= 0's were put =0Ain twin Comanches=0Awith extra long constant speed prop ext= ensions (for a more streamlined =0Acowl)............This then put=0Athe eng= ine CG further forward so to keep the Dynafocal mount "Focal" point =0Aslig= htly ahead of the=0Aengine CG the Dynafocal mount angle was reduced from 30= degrees to 18 =0Adegrees.........=0A=0A=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0 The Dynafocal type = 1 focal point is 14.323 inches from the =0Amounts..................The "Mis= tral" 13B=0Aengine CG is 9.44 inches from the mount so should work well wit= h the type 1, 30 =0Adegree=A0Dynafocal=0Amount..............IMHO=A0=0A=A0= =0AKelly Troyer=0A"DYKE DELTA JD2"(Eventually)=0A"13B ROTARY"_ Engine=0A"RW= S"_RD1C/EC2/EM2=0A"MISTRAL"_Backplate/Oil Manifold=0A"TURBONETICS"_TO4E50 T= urbo=0A=0A=0A=0A=0A________________________________=0AFrom: Bill Bradburry = =0ATo: Rotary motors in aircraft =0ASent: Mon, April 25, 2011 10:13:02 PM=0ASubject: [FlyRotary= ] Re: Mistral 'Like' Intake=0A=0A=0AThere is also a Type 2 Dynafocal that I= think is in more common usage.=A0 If I =0Arecall the angle on it is 17 deg= rees.=0A=A0=0ABill B=0A=A0=0A=0A________________________________=0A=0AFrom:= Rotary motors in aircraft [mailto:flyrotary@lancaironline.net] On Behalf Of= =0AKelly Troyer=0ASent: Monday, April 25, 2011 4:57 PM=0ATo: Rotary motors= in aircraft=0ASubject: [FlyRotary] Re: Mistral 'Like' Intake=0A=A0=0AJarre= tt,=0A=A0=0A=A0=A0=A0=A0 I found the "Dynafocal" info................Was on= my other computer =0A!!..................=0A=A0=0AKelly Troyer=0A"DYKE DEL= TA JD2"(Eventually)=0A"13B ROTARY"_ Engine=0A"RWS"_RD1C/EC2/EM2=0A"MISTRAL"= _Backplate/Oil Manifold=0A"TURBONETICS"_TO4E50 Turbo=0A=A0=0A=A0=0A=0A_____= ___________________________=0A=0AFrom:H & J Johnson = =0ATo: Rotary motors in aircraft =0ASent: Mon,= April 25, 2011 11:21:48 AM=0ASubject: [FlyRotary] Re: Mistral 'Like' Intak= e=0AThe scanning should give in the tens of thousands [0.01"] or less depen= ding on =0Awhat type of equipement used etc.=A0=A0 That in conjunction w/ b= olt hold placement =0Athat I already have [lots of collected data over the = years] I should be able to =0Aduplicate the basic geometry. From there it w= ill become a new product in that we =0Awant to make it=A0something that=A0w= orks for everyone [or as many as possible] to =0Amake it a viable unit. Tha= t info, mixed w/ knowing what the 'Standard' mount =0Ageometry is should ge= t us where we need to go.=0ABest regards=0A=0AJarrett Johnson =0Awww.innove= ntion-tech.com=0A----- Original Message ----- =0AFrom: Kelly Troyer =0ADate: Monday, April 25, 2011 10:03 am =0ASubject: [FlyRotary] = Re: Mistral 'Like' Intake =0A> Jarrett, =0A> =0A> =A0=A0=A0=A0=A0 I do not = know exactly=A0what dimensions the scanning give you =0A> such as bolt =0A>= hole placement, etc.........I presumed =0A> that the angles of the mount e= ars needed for the "Dynafoal" mounts =0A> would be =0A> "Dead" on though...= ....... =0A> =0A> =0A> Kelly Troyer =0A> "DYKE DELTA JD2" (Eventually) =0A>= "13B ROTARY"_ Engine =0A> "RWS"_RD1C/EC2/EM2 =0A> "MISTRAL"_Backplate/Oil = Manifold =0A> "TURBONETICS"_TO4E50 Turbo =0A> =0A> =0A> =0A> =0A> _________= _______________________ =0A> From: H & J Johnson = =0A> To: Rotary motors in aircraft =0A> Sent:= Mon, April 25, 2011 10:49:43 AM =0A> Subject: [FlyRotary] Re: Mistral 'Lik= e' Intake =0A> =0A> =A0Excellent, now I just need to get some Dynafocal dim= ensions [I've =0A> seen it on =0A> the web in the past, just gotta re-locat= e the dimensional =0A> 'standards']. That in =0A> conjunction w/ a few scan= s & the picture will start to really take =0A> shape! =0A> =0A> I love prog= ress :) =0A> I can't say Thanks enough Kelly, w/out the help of yourself an= d =0A> others it would =0A> be a much steeper curve to get it up to speed. = =0A> =0A> Jarrett Johnson =0A> www.innovention-tech.com =0A> --=A0 Homepage= :=A0 http://www.flyrotary.com/=A0 Archive and UnSub:=A0=A0 =0A> http://mail= .lancaironline.net:81/lists/flyrotary/List.html =0A> =0A--=0A =A0=0A Homep= age:=A0 http://www.flyrotary.com/=0A =A0=0AArchive and UnSub:=A0=A0 http://= mail.lancaironline.net:81/lists/flyrotary/List.html=0A=0AJarrett Johnson = =0Awww.innovention-tech.com --0-1902801938-1303826641=:54325 Content-Type: text/html; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
=0A
Jarrett,
=0A
 
=0A
 &nb= sp;   The "Mistral" 13B engine (and their 20B) CG of 9.44 an= d 11.73  inches respectively was complete with
=0Aall accessories and redrive (which is heavier than Tracy's RD1X = re-drives of 44 lbs)................The addition
=0A
of a con= stant speed (with normal extension) would still keep the Type 1, 30 degree = focal point of 14.373"
=0A
in front of the 13B CG (IMHO).....= ......The 20B CG with normal constant speed would have to be calculated=0A
to see if it remained within the Type 1, 30 degree 14.373" focal = point..............The type 2,18 degree seems
=0A
to have been use= d only on a specific 0-320 model installed in the twin Comanche (That does = not keep your
=0A
Lancair from having this engine instal= led)..................
=0A
 
=0A
   <= /DIV>=0A

Kelly Troyer
"DYKE DELTA JD2" <= FONT size=3D1>(Eventually)

=0A

"13B ROTARY"_ Engine"RWS"_RD1C/EC2/EM2
"MISTRAL"_Backplate/Oil Manifold

=0A

"TURBONETI= CS"_TO4E50 Turbo

=0A

=0A

=0A
=0A
=0AFrom: H & J Johnson <hjjohnson@sasktel.net>
To: Rotary motors in aircraft <flyrota= ry@lancaironline.net>
Sent: Tue, April 26, 2011 2:36:54 AM
Subject: [FlyRotary] Re: Mistral 'Like' Intake

=  Interesting. I may very well be wrong but for some reason I had= it in my head [once it was jared by Bills mention of Type 2] that the Type= 2's were usually used for engines w/ constant speed [due to weight] and th= e type 1's were used mainly for fixed pitch. [old wives tale?] I would= think that due to our extra weight out front on the nose a Type 2 would be= more in order. Having said that, I have no idea where the CofG on a 13B is= located and how that relates to the various focal points. In addition, how= adding a PSRU on the nose would impact the CofG [and or a electricl pitch prop etc].  I'll have to do= some reading and see what I can dig up.  Certainly a good place to st= art w/ as far as a ground up design on the mounting housing. =0A

Lynn, re= : Strength of the Connection.

=0A

I remember you stating some of those= points a while back. I'm wondering if, in our lower power state, these are= as much a concern as they are in the racing world? It would certainly be p= ossible to add extra parts to the install [the thickened bottom plate, or p= erhaps some form of a stiffener that locks the block from torque related mo= vement front to back  { all just thoughts flashing through my brain, R= HRN}. I've not heard comment about how Mistral addressed this [or if it was= a concern of theirs?].

=0A

Kelly, do you know of any additional conne= ction points [dowels or pins etc] that were needed for the instal of a Mist= ral housing? 

=0A

It certainly is not my first 'pick' to have a m= ounting housing which needs modifications to a short block, to allow it to = be installed.


Jarrett Johnson
www.innovention-tech.c= om

=0A

 

=0A

<= /P>=0A

=0A

=0A
=0A
Jarrett and Bill,=0A
       Here is the source of my "D= ynafocal" mount info...............
 
=0A

Kelly Troyer
"DYKE DELTA JD2" (Eventually)

=0A

"1= 3B ROTARY"_ Engine
"RWS"_RD1C/EC2/EM2
"MISTRAL"_Backplate/Oil Manifol= d

=0A

"TURBONETICS"_TO4E50 Turbo

=0A

=0A

=0A
=0A
=0AFrom: Kelly Troyer <ke= ltro@att.net>
To: Rotary motors in aircraft <flyrotary@lancaironlin= e.net>
Sent:<= /FONT> Mon, April 25, 2011 10:37:25 PM
Subject: [FlyRotary] Re= : Mistral 'Like' Intake

=0A
=0A
=0A
Bill,
= =0A
       My info says the Type 2 ,18 de= gree was introduced when O-320's were put in twin Comanches
=0A
wi= th extra long constant speed prop extensions (for a more streamlined cowl).= ...........This then put
=0A
the engine CG further forward so to k= eep the Dynafocal mount "Focal" point slightly ahead of the
=0A
en= gine CG the Dynafocal mount angle was reduced from 30 degrees to 18 degrees= .........
=0A
 
=0A
      T= he Dynafocal type 1 focal point is 14.323 inches from the mounts...........= .......The "Mistral" 13B
=0A
engine CG is 9.44 inches from the mou= nt so should work well with the type 1, 30 degree Dynafocal
=0Amount..............IMHO 
 
=0A

Kelly Troyer
"DYKE DELTA JD2"= (Eventually)

=0A

"13B RO= TARY"_ Engine
"RWS"_RD1C/EC2/EM2
"MISTRAL"_Backplate/Oil Manifold

= =0A

"TURBONETICS"_TO4E50 Turbo

=0A

=0A

=0A
= =0A
=0AFrom: Bill Bradburry <bbr= adburry@bellsouth.net>
To: Rotary motors in aircraft <flyrotary@lan= caironline.net>
Sent: Mon, April 25, 2011 10:13:02 PM
Subject: [FlyR= otary] Re: Mistral 'Like' Intake

=0A=0A=0A
=0A

There is also a Type 2 Dynafocal that= I think is in more common usage.  If I recall the angle on it is 17 d= egrees.

=0A

 

=0A

Bill B

=0A

 

=0A
=0A
=0A
=0A
=0A

From: Rotary motors in aircraft [mailto:flyro= tary@lancaironline.net] On Behalf Of Kelly Troyer
Sent: Monday, April 25, = 2011 4:57 PM
To:= Rotary motors in aircraft
Subject: [FlyRotary] Re: Mis= tral 'Like' Intake

=0A

 

=0A
=0A
=0A
=0A

Jarrett,

=0A
=0A

=  

=0A
=0A

   &nbs= p; I found the "Dynafocal" info................Was on my other computer !!.= .................
 

=0A

Kelly Troyer<= BR>"DYKE DELTA JD2"(Eventually)

=0A

"13B ROTARY"_ Engine
"RWS"_RD1C/EC2/EM2
"MISTRAL"_= Backplate/Oil Manifold

=0A

<= SPAN style=3D"FONT-FAMILY: Arial; FONT-SIZE: 12pt">"TURBONETICS"_TO4E50 Tur= bo

=0A
=0A

&nbs= p;

=0A
=0A

 

= =0A
=0A
=0A
=0A=0A

From: H & J Johnson <hjjohnson@sasktel.net>To:<= /B> Rotary motors in aircraft <flyrotary@lancaironline.net>
Sent: M= on, April 25, 2011 11:21:48 AM
Subject: [FlyRotary] Re: Mistral 'Like' In= take

=0A

The scanning should give in the tens of thousands [0.01"] or l= ess depending on what type of equipement used etc.   That in conj= unction w/ bolt hold placement that I already have [lots of collected data = over the years] I should be able to duplicate the basic geometry. From ther= e it will become a new product in that we want to make it something th= at works for everyone [or as many as possible] to make it a viable uni= t. That info, mixed w/ knowing what the 'Standard' mount geometry is should= get us where we need to go.

=0A

Be= st regards

Jarrett Johnson
www.innove= ntion-tech.com

=0A----- Original Message ----- =0A

From: Kelly Troyer <k= eltro@att.net>

=0A

Date= : Monday, April 25, 2011 10:03 am

=0A

Subjec= t: [FlyRotary] Re: Mistral 'Like' Intake

=0A

&g= t; Jarrett,
>
>       I do not know = exactly what dimensions the scanning give you
> such as bolt > hole placement, etc.........I presumed
> that the angles of t= he mount ears needed for the "Dynafoal" mounts
> would be
> "= Dead" on though..........
>
>
> Kelly Troyer
> = "DYKE DELTA JD2" (Eventually)
> "13B ROTARY"_ Engine
> "RWS"_= RD1C/EC2/EM2
> "MISTRAL"_Backplate/Oil Manifold
> "TURBONETIC= S"_TO4E50 Turbo
>
>
>
>
> ______________= __________________
> From: H & J Johnson <hjjohnson@sasktel.n= et>
> To: Rotary motors in aircraft <flyrotary@lancaironline.n= et>
> Sent: Mon, April 25, 2011 10:49:43 AM
> Subject: [Fl= yRotary] Re: Mistral 'Like' Intake
>
>  Excellent, now I just need to get some Dynafocal dimensions [I've > seen it on
> the web in the past, just gotta re-locate the di= mensional
> 'standards']. That in
> conjunction w/ a few scan= s & the picture will start to really take
> shape!
>
= > I love progress :)
> I can't say Thanks enough Kelly, w/out the= help of yourself and
> others it would
> be a much steeper c= urve to get it up to speed.
>
> Jarrett Johnson
> www.= innovention-tech.com
> --  Homepage:  http://www.flyrotary= .com/  Archive and UnSub:  
> http://mail.lancaironli= ne.net:81/lists/flyrotary/List.html
> 

--
= 
  
=20
 Homepage:  http://www.flyrotary.com/
  
Archiv=
e and UnSub:   http://mail.lancaironline.net:81/lists/flyrotary/L=
ist.html
=0A

=0A
=0A=0A

--
Homepage:  http://www.flyrotary.com/
Archive and Un= Sub:   http://mail.lancaironline.net:= 81/lists/flyrotary/List.html

=0A

=0A=0A=0A=0A=


=0A

--    Homepage:  http://www.fly=
rotary.com/    Archive and UnSub:   http://mail.lancaironline.net:81/lists/=
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