X-Virus-Scanned: clean according to Sophos on Logan.com Return-Path: Received: from nm5-vm0.access.bullet.mail.mud.yahoo.com ([66.94.237.155] verified) by logan.com (CommuniGate Pro SMTP 5.4c3j) with SMTP id 4954591 for flyrotary@lancaironline.net; Fri, 22 Apr 2011 16:30:41 -0400 Received-SPF: none receiver=logan.com; client-ip=66.94.237.155; envelope-from=ceengland@bellsouth.net Received: from [66.94.237.201] by nm5.access.bullet.mail.mud.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 22 Apr 2011 20:30:05 -0000 Received: from [66.94.237.97] by tm12.access.bullet.mail.mud.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 22 Apr 2011 20:30:05 -0000 Received: from [127.0.0.1] by omp1002.access.mail.mud.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 22 Apr 2011 20:30:05 -0000 X-Yahoo-Newman-Id: 123556.15910.bm@omp1002.access.mail.mud.yahoo.com Received: (qmail 24466 invoked from network); 22 Apr 2011 20:30:04 -0000 DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=bellsouth.net; s=s1024; t=1303504204; bh=ohxpJk+ILN4GG+y19RLe4xrOPcuRe40PUoNelTxDJNc=; h=Received:X-Yahoo-SMTP:X-YMail-OSG:X-Yahoo-Newman-Property:Message-ID:Date:From:User-Agent:MIME-Version:To:Subject:References:In-Reply-To:Content-Type; b=FhbueK9VJm4OpGIgQeFIXe87o6bx3Kc+sPkmlVJUwX0+fUv9np1P0vPu+BG/JTIbVKe8zWWCKXmgOARigj3mO5+NnKLyeg7MOcoWXuoeMoK1NGYMT1CLhxGkU9KqbvySyGhEse+BCBJZkd4Q12yT7trcG2yykFpJsMEneY0mCoY= Received: from [192.168.10.8] (ceengland@98.95.182.36 with plain) by smtp103.sbc.mail.bf1.yahoo.com with SMTP; 22 Apr 2011 13:30:04 -0700 PDT X-Yahoo-SMTP: uXJ_6LOswBCr8InijhYErvjWlJuRkoKPGNeiuu7PA.5wcGoy X-YMail-OSG: 2QJw9yIVM1lDbav9sYQcwVMMVbILgt9eBDbAXj30P6.w0WQ .aBrobsVAzo4Q9lIZ8rKjStmr8ClSVhUDprY0Y9zr12BtbJxzM7.6kdtoe_4 eGef7oo7t9ALiEWDPVvGtnjIlUTP8YzXLDvHI_7N6gE.VtVZCb5RUFMWszi3 uFK0XxE4EJALfhnmAac3tgaE_ImQ_2DW8c_OaHMkYtwM0rLSLfOCfHy1VYQc OZd3_sjpUW_0A29Iz7BTl9x_j1EXOXGHOOsAF1iExQIIdmbkN2SCHfXzoCMm .MyhB.HWASpXk4rbjTu3ElFLUGwBSk3YdhsEmkG9YPxjMVwHP3Q0CkPG7bsz EoNAuDAnCdY8OOLx0smuShA-- X-Yahoo-Newman-Property: ymail-3 Message-ID: <4DB1E550.4060507@bellsouth.net> Date: Fri, 22 Apr 2011 15:30:08 -0500 From: Charlie England User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Windows; U; Windows NT 5.1; en-US; rv:1.9.2.15) Gecko/20110303 Thunderbird/3.1.9 MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Rotary motors in aircraft Subject: Re: [FlyRotary] Re: Mistral 'Like' Intake References: In-Reply-To: Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="------------070206020707000107010400" This is a multi-part message in MIME format. --------------070206020707000107010400 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sounds like you've got the right idea. As long as the water paths can be accommodated, the pump could move around quite a bit; even off the housing completely like some Toyota pumps, though that would be less than ideal. All the housing really needs is to accommodate the water pump (if possible), the oil pump, the 'stack' of stuff on the end of the E-shaft as Kelly mentioned, and to get those Lyc ears sticking out there. The biggest engineering issue might be the load path; finding a way to be sure the mounting bolts aren't overloaded at 6G's (potentially more in a bad landing...). Charlie On 4/22/2011 1:34 PM, H & J Johnson wrote: > Ernest, I'm not looking to duplicate either completely. Rather having > the details of what they made work and what would work better for the > average builder is where I'm looking to go. Having all the cards on > the table and the ability to pick and choose what we think is the best > setup for everyone is as good as it gets in problem solving or product > improvements. > > Thanks also to Kelly for all the intel and pictures. I'll be in touch > in regards to parts etc..Btw, Kelly where are you located? > > Great to be starting down this road finally.. it's been a long time > coming ! > > Jarrett Johnson > www.innovention-tech.com > > > > Jarrett Johnson > www.innovention-tech.com > > *----- Original Message -----* *From*: Ernest Christley > *Date*: Friday, April 22, 2011 10:23 am > *Subject*: [FlyRotary] Re: Mistral 'Like' Intake > On 04/22/2011 12:01 > PM, Kelly Troyer wrote: > > > Jarrett, > > > The main problem (from my eyeball engineering) will be > > integrating > > > the Renesis (or other) water-pump into a simplified > > > "Mistral" hsg without any interference with the Lycoming mount > > ring > > > and "Dyna-focal" engine mounts..........The only part of > > > the "Renesis" hsg that has to be duplicated is the water-pump > > hsg > > > portion (see photo) and provisions made for locating > > > the "Renesis" ignition sensor in the same relative position on a > > > redesigned "Mistral" hsg..............Much of the "Mistral" > > > open front can be eliminated (no need for the accessory drive > > section) > > > but retaining the removable front cover (which > > > doubles as a alternator mount point) would be a nice feature > > (but add > > > complication) as it allows access to the 13B front > > > thrust brg , gear stack and oil pump without pulling the engine > > (this > > > feature is not necessary if it is too costly).............The > > > relative positions of the water-pump and front oil seal from the > > > 13B/Renesis frt side hsg need to be maintained to allow > > > the use of the "Renesis" frt hub , pulley and ignition trigger > > wheel > > > and to maintain pulley/belt alignment............. > > > > > > > If you're going for this much of a redesign, start with a clean > > sheet > > and incorporate a generator into the mount. You would need four > > raised > > lands around the crank to mount the stator against the housing, > > and a > > splined adapter to mount the rotor to the crank. You could then > > move to > > an electric water pump, or mount the drive pulley on the outside > > of the > > rotor. > > > > > -- > > Homepage: http://www.flyrotary.com/ > > Archive and UnSub: http://mail.lancaironline.net:81/lists/flyrotary/List.html --------------070206020707000107010400 Content-Type: text/html; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sounds like you've got the right idea. As long as the water paths can be accommodated, the pump could move around quite a bit; even off the housing completely like some Toyota pumps, though that would be less than ideal. All the housing really needs is to accommodate the water pump (if possible), the oil pump, the 'stack' of stuff on the end of the E-shaft as Kelly mentioned, and to get those Lyc ears sticking out there. The biggest engineering issue might be the load path; finding a way to be sure the mounting bolts aren't overloaded at 6G's (potentially more in a bad landing...).

Charlie

On 4/22/2011 1:34 PM, H & J Johnson wrote:
Ernest, I'm not looking to duplicate either completely. Rather having the details of what they made work and what would work better for the average builder is where I'm looking to go. Having all the cards on the table and the ability to pick and choose what we think is the best setup for everyone is as good as it gets in problem solving or product improvements.

Thanks also to Kelly for all the intel and pictures. I'll be in touch in regards to parts etc..Btw, Kelly where are you located? 

Great to be starting down this road finally.. it's been a long time coming !

Jarrett Johnson
www.innovention-tech.com



Jarrett Johnson
www.innovention-tech.com

----- Original Message ----- From: Ernest Christley <echristley@att.net> Date: Friday, April 22, 2011 10:23 am Subject: [FlyRotary] Re: Mistral 'Like' Intake > On 04/22/2011 12:01 PM, Kelly Troyer wrote:
> > Jarrett,
> >     The main problem (from my eyeball engineering) will be
> integrating
> > the Renesis (or other) water-pump into a simplified
> > "Mistral" hsg without any interference with the Lycoming mount
> ring
> > and "Dyna-focal" engine mounts..........The only part of
> > the "Renesis" hsg that has to be duplicated is the water-pump
> hsg
> > portion (see photo) and provisions made for locating
> > the "Renesis" ignition sensor in the same relative position on a
> > redesigned "Mistral" hsg..............Much of the "Mistral"
> > open front can be eliminated (no need for the accessory drive
> section)
> > but retaining the removable front cover (which
> > doubles as a alternator mount point) would be a nice feature
> (but add
> > complication) as it allows access to the 13B front
> > thrust brg , gear stack and oil pump without pulling the engine
> (this
> > feature is not necessary if it is too costly).............The
> > relative positions of the water-pump and front oil seal from the
> > 13B/Renesis frt side hsg need to be maintained to allow
> > the use of the "Renesis" frt hub , pulley and ignition trigger
> wheel
> > and to maintain pulley/belt alignment.............
> >
>
> If you're going for this much of a redesign, start with a clean
> sheet
> and incorporate a generator into the mount.  You would need four
> raised
> lands around the crank to mount the stator against the housing,
> and a
> splined adapter to mount the rotor to the crank.  You could then
> move to
> an electric water pump, or mount the drive pulley on the outside
> of the
> rotor.
>
> 
--

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