X-Virus-Scanned: clean according to Sophos on Logan.com Return-Path: Received: from electron.sasknet.sk.ca ([142.165.20.179] verified) by logan.com (CommuniGate Pro SMTP 5.4c3j) with ESMTPS id 4953680 for flyrotary@lancaironline.net; Thu, 21 Apr 2011 19:31:38 -0400 Received-SPF: none receiver=logan.com; client-ip=142.165.20.179; envelope-from=hjjohnson@sasktel.net Received: from pps.filterd (electron [127.0.0.1]) by electron.sasknet.sk.ca (8.14.3/8.14.3) with SMTP id p3LNSMPM023750 for ; Thu, 21 Apr 2011 17:31:01 -0600 Received: from bgmpomr1.sasknet.sk.ca (bgmpOMR1.sasknet.sk.ca [142.165.72.22]) by electron.sasknet.sk.ca with ESMTP id vtwg1sjc4-1 for ; Thu, 21 Apr 2011 17:31:01 -0600 Received: from sasktel.net ([192.168.234.97]) by bgmpomr1.sasknet.sk.ca (SaskTel eMessaging Service) with ESMTP id <0LK000G7LZZOSQ31@bgmpomr1.sasknet.sk.ca> for flyrotary@lancaironline.net; Thu, 21 Apr 2011 17:31:00 -0600 (CST) Received: from [192.168.234.25] (Forwarded-For: [24.89.93.210]) by cgmail1.sasknet.sk.ca (mshttpd); Thu, 21 Apr 2011 17:31:00 -0600 Date: Thu, 21 Apr 2011 17:31:00 -0600 From: H & J Johnson Subject: Re: [FlyRotary] Re: Mistral 'Like' Intake To: Rotary motors in aircraft Message-id: <6f1003794bbb.4db069d4@sasktel.net> MIME-version: 1.0 X-Mailer: Sun Java(tm) System Messenger Express 6.1 HotFix 0.20 (built Feb 27 2006) Content-type: text/html; charset=us-ascii Content-language: en Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT Content-disposition: inline X-Accept-Language: en Priority: normal X-Proofpoint-Virus-Version: vendor=fsecure engine=2.50.10432:5.2.15,1.0.148,0.0.0000 definitions=2011-04-21_07:2011-04-21,2011-04-21,1970-01-01 signatures=0 X-Proofpoint-Spam-Details: rule=outbound_notspam policy=default score=0 spamscore=0 ipscore=0 suspectscore=2 phishscore=0 bulkscore=0 adultscore=0 classifier=spam adjust=0 reason=mlx engine=5.0.0-1012030000 definitions=main-1104210156

Sounds Great Kelly!

Thanks for doing that for me!

Jarrett Johnson
www.innovention-tech.com

----- Original Message -----

From: Kelly Troyer <keltro@att.net>

Date: Thursday, April 21, 2011 4:53 pm

Subject: [FlyRotary] Re: Mistral 'Like' Intake

> Jarret,
>     I will try to get some better photos of both
> housings.............I have
> several I took
>
> while doing the small amount of machine work (milling machine) to
> adapt the
> Mistral
>
> back-plate to my 13B front hsg but they may not be detailed enough
> for your
> needs
> and a good rear view of the Mistral 13B with water-pump and
> alternator.........I
> have
> determined that the Renesis front hsg appears to be a direct bolt
> on to the
> 93-99
> 13BREW and the Japanese Cosmo 13B and 20B with only 2 existing
> machined pads
> that have to be drilled and threaded for 8mm studs............The
> main possible
> conflict
> that I have eyeballed may be if the left side of the Renesis water-
> pump comes
> too
> close to the top left (from the cockpit) mount ear or the mount
> itself......That
> possible
> problem might be surmounted by adjusting the pump position
> slightly with
> computer
>
> magic..........The problem with moving the pump position using the
> Renesis pump
> is
> the studs do not move and might end up in the middle of the
> pump.............If
> that is
>
> the case a pump closer to the size and shape of the Mistral pump
> would need to
> be
> sourced............This conversion would need to use the Renesis
> frt hub, pulley
> and
> timing wheel plus the ignition pickup sensor................The
> Renesis frt hsg
> will bolt to
> the 86-91 13B but lacks the afore mentioned machined bolt pads and
> would lose an
> important stud next to the top left mount ear and one further down
> the hsg that
> is not
>
> as critical for structural integrity.............Will send what
> photos I have in
> another post
> as I am not on my home computer...........
>
> Best Regards,
>
> Kelly Troyer
> "DYKE DELTA JD2" (Eventually)
> "13B ROTARY"_ Engine
> "RWS"_RD1C/EC2/EM2
> "MISTRAL"_Backplate/Oil Manifold
> "TURBONETICS"_TO4E50 Turbo
>
>
>
>
> ________________________________
> From: H & J Johnson <hjjohnson@sasktel.net>
> To: Rotary motors in aircraft <flyrotary@lancaironline.net>
> Sent: Thu, April 21, 2011 4:44:05 PM
> Subject: [FlyRotary] Re: Mistral 'Like' Intake
>
> Wow Kelly! It sounds like you've been giving this some thought!
> I'd have to see some detailed pictures of the two part but my
> first guess is
> that 'yes' they could both be scanned and then the best of both
> combined into
> one wonderful unit. Do you have good detail pictures of both?
> You've certainly got my attention :)
> Thanks!
>
> Jarrett Johnson
> www.innovention-tech.com----- Original Message ----- From: Kelly
> Troyer
> <keltro@att.net> Date: Thursday, April 21, 2011 8:50 am Subject:
> [FlyRotary]
> Mistral 'Like' Intake > Jarrett,
>
> >
> >      I have been following these posts with
> interest.............I
> > agree with
> > you and others that
> >
> > the most urgent need for the Rotary crowd is a efficient and
> > compact intake
> > manifold with
> > a rear accessory housing with Lycoming mount ears a close
> > second...........
> >     I am the proud owner of one of the few "Mistral" rear
> > housing/mount plates
> > which I paid
> >
> > dearly for and waited over 2 years for "Mistral" to have a
> > production run of
> > parts..........
> >
> >    The "Mistral" backplate is overly complicated and has
> > provisions for a
> > accessory drive
> > (vacuum or hydraulic pump) that our electrical homebuilt a/c do
> > not need plus
> > a expensive
> > (now unobtainable ) water-pump............It also has provision
> > for an oil
> > injection pump that
> > most flying Rotarys do not use since they premix with the
> > fuel...........
> > IMHO this housing can be simplified using the basic dimensions
> > and as Charlie
> > suggested
> > possibly utilizing an off the shelf water-pump such as the
> > "Renesis".............
> >
> >    Now to cut to the chase.............I have both the
> > "Mistral" hsg and a
> > 2004-8 "Renesis" hsg
> > so with your "Laser Scanning" ability could both hsgs be scanned
> > then "Married"
> > to each
> > other and modified into a workable hsg that would fill our
> > needs ??................
> >
> > Best Regards,
> >
> > Kelly Troyer
> > "DYKE DELTA JD2" (Eventually)
> > "13B ROTARY"_ Engine
> > "RWS"_RD1C/EC2/EM2
> > "MISTRAL"_Backplate/Oil Manifold
> > "TURBONETICS"_TO4E50 Turbo
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > ________________________________
> > From: H & J Johnson <hjjohnson@sasktel.net>
> > To: Rotary motors in aircraft <flyrotary@lancaironline.net>
> > Sent: Wed, April 20, 2011 11:38:07 PM
> > Subject: [FlyRotary] Re: Mistral 'Like' Intake
> >
> >
> > I agree Charlie, a better way to mount the block is needed, that
> > is product #2
> > that would be looked at[after the intake]. Sorta a 'walk first'
> > deal.   All this ties into my wish to use a rotary in the near
> > future. I see it
> > as stuff that 'I want/need' so if I do, then I'm sure there are
> others
> > that would be interested also.
> > Once I get this deal w/ the two jobs figured out things will
> start
> > to get mapped
> > out.
> > Jarrett Johnson
> > www.innovention-tech.com
> >
> > ----- Original Message -----From: Charlie England
> > <ceengland@bellsouth.net>
> > Date: Wednesday, April 20, 2011 7:27 pm Subject: [FlyRotary] Re:
> > Mistral 'Like'
> > Intake > Hi Jarrett,
> >
> > >
> > > Until a couple of months ago, I would have been *very*
> > interested
> > > in a
> > > replacement accessory housing with Lyc-style conical or
> > dynafocal
> > > mount
> > > ears on it. I think that an affordable adapter allowing use of
> a
> > > 'stock'
> > > motor mount that comes with <insert a/c of choice here> would
> do
> > > more
> > > for rotaries than any other single 'piece' of after-market
> gear.
> > > It
> > > means one less thing to fabricate, and the Lyc style mount
> gets
> > > all the
> > > structure away from the engine, freeing up volume for heat
> > > exchangers,
> > > intake, exhaust, etc.
> > >
> > > A housing that could use the stock water pump & oil pump would
> > be
> > > ideal
> > > (unlike the Mistral piece), to minimize cost. My vote would be
> > for
> > > the
> > > Renesis.
> > >
> > > Just a thought....
> > >
> > > Charlie
> > >
> > > On 4/20/2011 6:14 PM, H & J Johnson wrote:
> > > >
> > > > *Thanks Bryan, when looking at something of this nature,
> it's
> > > always
> > > > the chicken and egg thing! At some point *
> > > >
> > > > *I'd love to own a rotary powered a/c so there is some
> > > additional
> > > > motivation over building a product. *
> > > >
> > > > **
> > > >
> > > > *The best senario is to get my hands on an existing manifold
> > and
> > > then
> > > > laser scan it [I've got the equipment to do this, it's the*
> > > >
> > > > *'getting hands on' part that might be more difficult]. Once
> > > I've done
> > > > that it's a pretty straight forward move*
> > > >
> > > > *to make a similar product. There are most likely some
> changes
> > > that
> > > > would be incurred to improve it as well as change it such*
> > > >
> > > > *that it's not an 'exact' copy, as well as make it fit our
> > > > experimental uses directly. The ability to also integrate
> to
> > > fit
> > > > differnt *
> > > >
> > > > *makes and models of short block is also an advantage **as I
> > see
> > > it as
> > > > a two pc product.*
> > > >
> > > > *As far as retail price range I think your spot on, it'd be
> > > great to
> > > > have it on the market for inside of $500 however, that might
> > be
> > > a bit
> > > > 'bullish'.*
> > > >
> > > > *It is certainly a target to shoot for. If everything goes
> as
> > > planned
> > > > it will move forward and if there is a market, it's there
> for
> > it.*
> > > >
> > > > *My biggest barrier to getting started here and now is
> getting
> > > my
> > > > hands on a sample.... :) *
> > > >
> > > > *Jarrett Johnson*
> > > >
> > > > *www.innovention-tech.com <http://www.innovention-tech.com>
> *
> > > >
> > > > *----- Original Message -----*
> > > >
> > > > *From*: Bryan Winberry <bryanwinberry@bellsouth.net> *Date*:
> > > > Wednesday, April 20, 2011 5:02 pm *Subject*: [FlyRotary] Re:
> > > Mistral
> > > > Intake Documentation? > Jarrett,
> > > > >
> > > > > I'm certainly interested in a manifold. I recall the
> > mistral one
> > > > > going for
> > > > > quite a lot. Obviously the more you can sell, the less
> you
> > have
> > > > > to ask for
> > > > > them.
> > > > >
> > > > > What sort of investment is required to produce say ten
> > units? I'm
> > > > > thinking5-700 dollars(sales price), but then again, I like
> a
> > > > > bargain. Also it
> > > > > depends on how much profit you feel you need to make.
> > > > >
> > > > > I hope I haven't insulted you. But I have no clue as to
> how
> > much
> > > > > goes into
> > > > > cooking up one of these.
> > > > >
> > > > > I have a Renesis if you're looking for a test bed.
> > > > >
> > > > > Bryan
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > > _____
> > > > >
> > > > > From: Rotary motors in aircraft
> > [flyrotary@lancaironline.net] On
> > > > > Behalf Of H & J Johnson
> > > > > Sent: Wednesday, April 20, 2011 6:14 PM
> > > > > To: Rotary motors in aircraft
> > > > > Subject: [FlyRotary] Re: Mistral Intake Documentation?
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > > So it's possible that I've missed the question [I'm a bit
> > behind
> > > > > on my
> > > > > emails] but is there a market for a Mistral type intake
> > manifold
> > > > > system?I'm in the process of finalizing a casting furnace
> > and
> > > > > foundry setup and
> > > > > have been looking at various projects in and around rotary
> > > > > engines. Intake
> > > > > manifolds have been at the top of the list. I own the
> needed
> > CNC
> > > > > equipmentto build the molds and patterns for a project of
> > this
> > > > > level, it's always
> > > > > just been a issue of time to dedicate to the project.
> > > > >
> > > > > Recently I was given an opportunity to have more time to
> do
> > on
> > > > > projects like
> > > > > this [stop working two jobs and have multiple days off to
> do
> > stuff
> > > > > like this
> > > > > with a reasonably flexible schedule]
> > > > >
> > > > > I'm curious as to the demand for a reasonably priced
> > manifold?
> > > > > [Also, in the
> > > > > end customers mind, what would be 'reasonably priced'?]
> > > > >
> > > > > Best Regards
> > > > >
> > > > > Jarrett Johnson
> > > > >
> > > > > www.innovention-tech.com <http://www.innovention-
> tech.com/>
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > > --
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > > Homepage: http://www.flyrotary.com/
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > > Archive and UnSub:
> > > > > http://mail.lancaironline.net:81/lists/flyrotary/List.html
> > > > >
> > > > --
> > > >
> > > > Homepage: http://www.flyrotary.com/
> > > >
> > > > Archive and UnSub:
> > > http://mail.lancaironline.net:81/lists/flyrotary/List.html
> > >
> > --    Homepage: http://www.flyrotary.com/    Archive and
> UnSub:
> > http://mail.lancaironline.net:81/lists/flyrotary/List.html
> --    Homepage: http://www.flyrotary.com/    Archive and UnSub:
> http://mail.lancaironline.net:81/lists/flyrotary/List.html
>
> Jarrett Johnson
> www.innovention-tech.com