X-Virus-Scanned: clean according to Sophos on Logan.com Return-Path: Received: from fed1rmfepo102.cox.net ([68.230.241.144] verified) by logan.com (CommuniGate Pro SMTP 5.4c3j) with ESMTP id 4952400 for flyrotary@lancaironline.net; Wed, 20 Apr 2011 15:26:25 -0400 Received-SPF: softfail receiver=logan.com; client-ip=68.230.241.144; envelope-from=glasair2@me.com Received: from fed1rmimpo03.cox.net ([70.169.32.75]) by fed1rmfepo102.cox.net (InterMail vM.8.01.04.00 201-2260-137-20101110) with ESMTP id <20110420192541.UFKR18463.fed1rmfepo102.cox.net@fed1rmimpo03.cox.net> for ; Wed, 20 Apr 2011 15:25:41 -0400 Received: from [192.168.2.201] ([70.177.24.126]) by fed1rmimpo03.cox.net with bizsmtp id ZvRh1g0012jEC4N04vRhdS; Wed, 20 Apr 2011 15:25:41 -0400 X-CT-Score: NA X-Authority-Analysis: v=1.1 cv=hTXx1Er1pw82ZgGw8Hi28EyLmWoEdWD0ZP9EeNzTJ4I= c=1 sm=1 a=jE5MbdUzLPkA:10 a=J_oHuY-yf3cA:10 a=f32ykCDtWUuHg+z19x9HKQ==:17 a=pGLkceISAAAA:8 a=Ia-xEzejAAAA:8 a=HHGDD-5mAAAA:8 a=7g1VtSJxAAAA:8 a=WV06jEbqm0I84fbCjGYA:9 a=sHJ8bJ0jSvBqe_eLnxsA:7 a=wPNLvfGTeEIA:10 a=Qa1je4BO31QA:10 a=MSl-tDqOz04A:10 a=EzXvWhQp4_cA:10 a=i1zE5R4R5dEA:10 a=12kWxZ8lfyVOmewMcmEA:9 a=-vX4ubl8G_dV1ZxqOvcA:7 a=f32ykCDtWUuHg+z19x9HKQ==:117 X-CM-Score: 0.00 Authentication-Results: cox.net; none From: Steve Thomas Mime-Version: 1.0 (Apple Message framework v1084) Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary=Apple-Mail-68-750310157 Subject: Re: [FlyRotary] My Mistral Engine Status Date: Wed, 20 Apr 2011 12:25:40 -0700 In-Reply-To: To: Rotary motors in aircraft References: Message-Id: X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.1084) --Apple-Mail-68-750310157 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 I, too, changed to AN-12 hose. I came to a point where i decided to = make a change to the plumbing. I am now using Aeroquip Startlite hose = instead of the stainless wrapped hose. I use the Startlite for both the = oil and water cooling. My water hoses are -16. So, when changing over = to Startlite from my old stainless-wrapped hose, I decided to go up a = size. Other than that, I'm stock. I'll reserve judgement of the efficiency of the engine until I get the = problem solved. =20 Best Regards, Steve Thomas _______________________________________________________ On Apr 20, 2011, at 12:12 PM, Kelly Troyer wrote: > Steve, > =20 > =46rom the comments of Tracy and Al it would seem that the = lack of a method to manually lean > the "Mistral" ECU is keeping you from enjoying the maximum benefit of = lower fuel flow & EGT...... > =20 > You mentioned going to larger oil system = hoses................What size are you currently using > and what size are you contemplating............Most of the group are = using AN-10.............I have the > "Mistral" oil filter/manifold but consider the small filter = restrictive so I have machined a aluminum > adapter to take pump oil out the side of the front hsg to a "ADC" oil = filter (27 gal/min @ 65psi) > to the oil cooler to "AVIAID" external adjustable oil pressure = regulator (bypass oil directly to the > oil sump) with AN-12 hose (overkill perhaps but very little = restriction) > =20 > Best Regards > =20 > Kelly Troyer > "DYKE DELTA JD2" (Eventually) >=20 > "13B ROTARY"_ Engine > "RWS"_RD1C/EC2/EM2 > "MISTRAL"_Backplate/Oil Manifold >=20 > "TURBONETICS"_TO4E50 Turbo >=20 >=20 >=20 > From: Tracy > To: Rotary motors in aircraft > Sent: Wed, April 20, 2011 10:32:58 AM > Subject: [FlyRotary] Re: My Mistral Engine Status >=20 > Hi Steve, > When you say your EGTs are too high, what do you consider too hot? = When at WOT on takeoff mine run 1840 F which sounds high but after = 1800+ hours I'm convinced that this isn't too hot. In cruise I lean it = down to as low as 1520. My exhaust system is 321 SS, nothing exotic. >=20 > If your EGT problem is due to a clogged injector it will be obvious by = very mis-matched EGTs. Unless of course you have two partly clogged = injectors which is very unlikely.=20 >=20 > BTW, do you have a manual mixture control on the Mistral system? >=20 > Tracy >=20 > On Wed, Apr 20, 2011 at 11:12 AM, Steve Thomas = wrote: > Kelly, et. al., >=20 > I now have over 50 hours of flight on My Mistral engine. There are = problems that I need to fix, but, the early results are good. Here is a = brief summary: >=20 > 1. My oil temps are mostly under control. After many different = fixes, including adding air exit area, splitting the incoming air plenum = to force more air through the oil cooler, and increasing the size of my = oil plumbing, my cruising temps range from 195=BAF to 205=BAF. On a hot = day, the climb-out temps are still too high and I will be working on = that. Mistral uses the oil injection system, so, I burn about 1 qt. = every 5 to 6 hours. I'm using Idemitsu 20W-50 right now. > 2. Water temps are 183=BAF. I cannot get it to go higher under any = circumstances. > 3. At 50% power, my fuel flow is 11 GPH rich and 9GPH lean. I cannot = run much more power than that as the EGTs are too high. =20 > 4. My EGTs are still too high. I've been discussing this with the = chief engineer at Mistral, and the prognosis is that I have a partially = clogged injector. Since the fuel flows are calculated, they are = probably off. I'm told that I need a 10 micron filter. I have a 40 = micron now, but I'm told that isn't enough. =20 > 5. I believe that my air plenum scoop is too big. I've added a ton = of exit area, but I'm still pressurizing my cowl. Cooling should = improve if I cut down the scoop size. I'll be working on that. =20 > 6. The airplane is slow. I'm hoping that I can get better speeds = once I cut down on the air plenum scoop. =20 > 7. I'd also like to get my muffler in the cowl, but with the = technology currently available, I don't see how. Mufflers are just not = there. Mark Steitle is having good results with his DNA, but they have = been discontinued. I don't see anything out there that will do the job. = The tangential style mufflers are too power-robbing. SpinTec mufflers = have been recommended in the past, but their shapes are not very = aerodynamic. Anyone that might have a good suggestion, I'm listening. =20= >=20 > Best Regards, >=20 > Steve Thomas >=20 > _______________________________________________________ >=20 >=20 >=20 >=20 >=20 > On Apr 20, 2011, at 7:23 AM, Kelly Troyer wrote: >=20 >> Steve, >> =20 >> Other than the muffler how is your ship and its complete "Mistral" = firewall forward installation >> doing ?..................Are your cooling systems doing the job and = is the Mistral "FADEC" single >> lever fuel and ignition ECU keeping the EGT under control = ?............I am sure the Rotary group >> would be interested in hearing some of your numbers such as fuel = flow, EGT, oil and coolant >> temps, etc................ >> =20 >> Best Regards, =20 >> =20 >> Kelly Troyer >> "DYKE DELTA JD2" (Eventually) >> "13B ROTARY"_ Engine >> "RWS"_RD1C/EC2/EM2 >> "MISTRAL"_Backplate/Oil Manifold >>=20 >> "TURBONETICS"_TO4E50 Turbo >>=20 >>=20 >>=20 >> From: Steve Thomas >> To: Rotary motors in aircraft >> Sent: Tue, April 19, 2011 6:24:20 PM >> Subject: [FlyRotary] Burns Stainless Muffler Failure >>=20 >> I just did an inspection of my muffler and found that it was = basically coming apart inside. This is a Burns Stainless, 17" 2-Stage = muffler after 50 hours of flying behind a 2-rotor engine. Now, it could = be that 50 hours is a reasonable life for something like this, I don't = know. But, it certainly confirms the stories of muffler disintegration. = I've inspected this muffler several times over the last 50 hours, but = this is the first time that I've seen damage. But, when it comes apart, = it really comes apart. It is unfortunate, as the muffler was really = effective in reducing the noise and was light-weight. =20 >>=20 >>=20 >> Best Regards, >>=20 >> Steve Thomas >>=20 >> _____________________ >>=20 >>=20 >>=20 >=20 >=20 > -- > Homepage: http://www.flyrotary.com/ > Archive and UnSub: = http://mail.lancaironline.net:81/lists/flyrotary/List.html --Apple-Mail-68-750310157 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Content-Type: text/html; charset=iso-8859-1 I, too, changed to AN-12 hose.  I came to a = point where i decided to make a change to the plumbing.  I am now = using Aeroquip Startlite hose instead of the stainless wrapped hose. =  I use the Startlite for both the oil and water cooling.  My = water hoses are -16.  So, when changing over to Startlite from my = old stainless-wrapped hose, I decided to go up a size.  Other than = that, I'm stock.

I'll reserve judgement of the = efficiency of the engine until I get the problem solved.  

Best Regards,

Steve = Thomas

______________________________________________________= _

On Apr 20, 2011, at 12:12 PM, Kelly Troyer wrote:

 
        =46rom = the comments of Tracy and Al it would seem that the lack of a method to = manually lean
the "Mistral" ECU = is keeping you from enjoying the maximum benefit of lower fuel flow = & EGT......
 
       You mentioned = going to larger oil system hoses................What size are you = currently using
and what size are you = contemplating............Most of the group are using AN-10.............I = have the
"Mistral" oil filter/manifold = but consider the small filter restrictive so I have machined a = aluminum
adapter to take pump oil = out the side of the front hsg to a "ADC" oil filter (27 gal/min @ = 65psi)
to the oil cooler to = "AVIAID" external adjustable oil pressure regulator (bypass = oil directly to the
oil sump) with AN-12 hose = (overkill perhaps but very little restriction)
 
Best = Regards
   

Kelly = Troyer
"DYKE DELTA JD2" (Eventually)

"13B ROTARY"_ = Engine
"RWS"_RD1C/EC2/EM2
"MISTRAL"_Backplate/Oil = Manifold

"TURBONETICS"_TO4E50 Turbo


From: Tracy <rwstracy@gmail.com>
To: Rotary motors in aircraft = <flyrotary@lancaironline.net>
Sent: Wed, April 20, 2011 = 10:32:58 AM
 [FlyRotary] Re: My Mistral = Engine Status

Hi Steve,
   When you say your = EGTs are too high, what do you consider too hot?   When at WOT = on takeoff mine run 1840 F which sounds high but after 1800+ hours I'm = convinced that this isn't too hot.   In cruise I lean it down = to as low as 1520.   My exhaust system is 321 SS, nothing = exotic.

If your EGT problem is due to a clogged injector it will = be obvious by very mis-matched EGTs.  Unless of course you have two = partly clogged injectors which is very unlikely. 

BTW, do you have a = manual mixture control on the Mistral system?

Tracy

On Wed, Apr 20, 2011 at 11:12 = AM, Steve Thomas <glasair2@me.com> wrote:
Kelly, et. al.,

I now have = over 50 hours of flight on My Mistral engine.  There are problems = that I need to fix, but, the early results are good.  Here is a = brief summary:

1.  My oil temps are mostly under control. =  After many different fixes, including adding air exit area, = splitting the incoming air plenum to force more air through the oil = cooler, and increasing the size of my oil plumbing, my cruising temps = range from 195=BAF to 205=BAF.  On a hot day, the climb-out temps = are still too high and I will be working on that.  Mistral uses the = oil injection system, so, I burn about 1 qt. every 5 to 6 hours. =  I'm using Idemitsu 20W-50 right now.
2. =  Water temps are 183=BAF.  I cannot get it to go higher under = any circumstances.
3.  At 50% power, my = fuel flow is 11 GPH rich and 9GPH lean.  I cannot run much more = power than that as the EGTs are too high.  
4.  My EGTs are still too high.  I've been = discussing this with the chief engineer at Mistral, and the prognosis is = that I have a partially clogged injector.  Since the fuel flows are = calculated, they are probably off.  I'm told that  I need a 10 = micron filter.  I have a 40 micron now, but I'm told that isn't = enough.  
5.  I believe that my air = plenum scoop is too big.  I've added a ton of exit area, but I'm = still pressurizing my cowl.  Cooling should improve if I cut down = the scoop size.  I'll be working on that.  
6.  The airplane is slow.  I'm hoping that = I can get better speeds once I cut down on the air plenum scoop. =  
7.  I'd also like to get my = muffler in the cowl, but with the technology currently available, I = don't see how.  Mufflers are just not there.  Mark Steitle is = having good results with his DNA, but they have been discontinued. I = don't see anything out there that will do the job.  The tangential = style mufflers are too power-robbing.  SpinTec mufflers have been = recommended in the past, but their shapes are not very aerodynamic. =  Anyone that might have a good suggestion, I'm listening. =   

Best = Regards,

Steve = Thomas

______________________________________________________= _





On Apr 20, 2011, at 7:23 AM, = Kelly Troyer wrote:

Steve,
   Other than the = muffler how is your ship and its complete "Mistral" firewall forward = installation
doing ?..................Are = your cooling systems doing the job and is the Mistral "FADEC" = single
lever fuel and ignition ECU = keeping the EGT under control ?............I am sure the Rotary = group
would be interested in hearing = some of your numbers such as fuel flow, EGT, oil and coolant
temps, etc................
 
Best = Regards,  
 
Kelly Troyer
"DYKE DELTA = JD2" (Eventually)

"13B ROTARY"_ = Engine
"RWS"_RD1C/EC2/EM2
"MISTRAL"_Backplate/Oil = Manifold

"TURBONETICS"_TO4E50 Turbo


From: Steve = Thomas <glasair2@me.com>
To: Rotary = motors in aircraft <flyrotary@lancaironline.net= >
 


Best = Regards,

Steve = Thomas

_____________________





http://www.flyrotary.com/
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