X-Virus-Scanned: clean according to Sophos on Logan.com Return-Path: Received: from mail-fx0-f52.google.com ([209.85.161.52] verified) by logan.com (CommuniGate Pro SMTP 5.4c3j) with ESMTPS id 4952197 for flyrotary@lancaironline.net; Wed, 20 Apr 2011 12:43:55 -0400 Received-SPF: pass receiver=logan.com; client-ip=209.85.161.52; envelope-from=msteitle@gmail.com Received: by fxm6 with SMTP id 6so509168fxm.25 for ; Wed, 20 Apr 2011 09:43:19 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=gamma; h=domainkey-signature:mime-version:in-reply-to:references:date :message-id:subject:from:to:content-type; bh=HXXO5HbGTkZW9TZb/jBeIM2FOU1bLUm+Wsjl6fH8IQ4=; b=a9wpq0XE5g28rnWVLy1KmYm/8qTJqIc6ZMshIcYOX8sfG6n7Rxwq/CueXyTsi+bm+1 gw7PsxuC7mS0oxsKvy7yLPGOh//xiZm4me0YX8vsB77BZWPWbOaEQhXnTDDF+7hGXIac 4KmnGoQzTzRLVJbCt+d7SF8xEPj/hdXT59H5c= DomainKey-Signature: a=rsa-sha1; c=nofws; d=gmail.com; s=gamma; h=mime-version:in-reply-to:references:date:message-id:subject:from:to :content-type; b=x6WN6a4tMrv4Zyi0YNIh5/NAAMQOMDRm1hGZbQ9CQA7RG5JDnJ4RXU0QSv5NUsd3GK bdr9/1ylYCVbOHL3VqHeutirM9Eb/2Y8TL+OURKh1QeRbMQPVrL/YHbUBYpUVw0hH70f lopncm9GaQtYW5PCX1z0H7SECxW0gGYzTtGas= MIME-Version: 1.0 Received: by 10.223.79.79 with SMTP id o15mr530211fak.16.1303317799245; Wed, 20 Apr 2011 09:43:19 -0700 (PDT) Received: by 10.223.102.141 with HTTP; Wed, 20 Apr 2011 09:43:19 -0700 (PDT) In-Reply-To: References: Date: Wed, 20 Apr 2011 11:43:19 -0500 Message-ID: Subject: Re: [FlyRotary] My Mistral Engine Status From: Mark Steitle To: Rotary motors in aircraft Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary=485b393ab0fb74165804a15c5289 --485b393ab0fb74165804a15c5289 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Steve, The EGT's on my p-ported 20B dropped dramatically when I replaced the tangential muffler with the DNA. It makes sense... high back pressure causes elevated EGT's. Lynn Hanover had commented earlier that peripheral-port engines do not like back pressure and need a free-flowing exhaust, but I didn't pay close enough attention. I'm not sure how this relates to the side port engines, if at all. Just a thought after seeing the picture of your Burns Stainless muffler. Mark S. On Wed, Apr 20, 2011 at 10:12 AM, Steve Thomas wrote: > Kelly, et. al., > > I now have over 50 hours of flight on My Mistral engine. There are > problems that I need to fix, but, the early results are good. Here is a > brief summary: > > 1. My oil temps are mostly under control. After many different fixes, > including adding air exit area, splitting the incoming air plenum to forc= e > more air through the oil cooler, and increasing the size of my oil plumbi= ng, > my cruising temps range from 195=BAF to 205=BAF. On a hot day, the climb= -out > temps are still too high and I will be working on that. Mistral uses the > oil injection system, so, I burn about 1 qt. every 5 to 6 hours. I'm usi= ng > Idemitsu 20W-50 right now. > 2. Water temps are 183=BAF. I cannot get it to go higher under any > circumstances. > 3. At 50% power, my fuel flow is 11 GPH rich and 9GPH lean. I cannot ru= n > much more power than that as the EGTs are too high. > 4. My EGTs are still too high. I've been discussing this with the chief > engineer at Mistral, and the prognosis is that I have a partially clogged > injector. Since the fuel flows are calculated, they are probably off. I= 'm > told that I need a 10 micron filter. I have a 40 micron now, but I'm to= ld > that isn't enough. > 5. I believe that my air plenum scoop is too big. I've added a ton of > exit area, but I'm still pressurizing my cowl. Cooling should improve if= I > cut down the scoop size. I'll be working on that. > 6. The airplane is slow. I'm hoping that I can get better speeds once I > cut down on the air plenum scoop. > 7. I'd also like to get my muffler in the cowl, but with the technology > currently available, I don't see how. Mufflers are just not there. Mark > Steitle is having good results with his DNA, but they have been > discontinued. I don't see anything out there that will do the job. The > tangential style mufflers are too power-robbing. SpinTec mufflers have b= een > recommended in the past, but their shapes are not very aerodynamic. Anyo= ne > that might have a good suggestion, I'm listening. > > Best Regards, > > Steve Thomas > > _______________________________________________________ > > > > > > On Apr 20, 2011, at 7:23 AM, Kelly Troyer wrote: > > Steve, > > Other than the muffler how is your ship and its complete "Mistral" > firewall forward installation > doing ?..................Are your cooling systems doing the job and is th= e > Mistral "FADEC" single > lever fuel and ignition ECU keeping the EGT under control ?............I = am > sure the Rotary group > would be interested in hearing some of your numbers such as fuel flow, EG= T, > oil and coolant > temps, etc................ > > Best Regards, > > Kelly Troyer > *"DYKE DELTA JD2" (Eventually)* > > "13B ROTARY"_ Engine > "RWS"_RD1C/EC2/EM2 > "MISTRAL"_Backplate/Oil Manifold > > "TURBONETICS"_TO4E50 Turbo > > > ------------------------------ > *From:* Steve Thomas > *To:* Rotary motors in aircraft > *Sent:* Tue, April 19, 2011 6:24:20 PM > *Subject:* [FlyRotary] Burns Stainless Muffler Failure > > I just did an inspection of my muffler and found that it was basically > coming apart inside. This is a Burns Stainless, 17" 2-Stage muffler afte= r > 50 hours of flying behind a 2-rotor engine. Now, it could be that 50 hou= rs > is a reasonable life for something like this, I don't know. But, it > certainly confirms the stories of muffler disintegration. I've inspected > this muffler several times over the last 50 hours, but this is the first > time that I've seen damage. But, when it comes apart, it really comes > apart. It is unfortunate, as the muffler was really effective in reducin= g > the noise and was light-weight. > > > Best Regards, > > Steve Thomas > > _____________________ > > > > > --485b393ab0fb74165804a15c5289 Content-Type: text/html; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
Steve,=A0
=A0
The=A0EGT's on my p-ported 20B dropped dramatically when I replace= d the tangential muffler with the DNA.=A0 It makes sense... high back press= ure causes elevated EGT's.=A0 Lynn Hanover had commented earlier that p= eripheral-port engines do not like back pressure and need a free-flowing ex= haust, but I didn't pay close enough attention.=A0 I'm not sure how= this relates to the side port engines, if at all.=A0 Just a thought after = seeing the picture of your Burns Stainless muffler.=A0
=A0
Mark S.

On Wed, Apr 20, 2011 at 10:12 AM, Steve Thomas <= span dir=3D"ltr"><glasair2@me.com= > wrote:
Kelly, et. al.,=20

I now have over 50 hours of flight on My Mistral engine. =A0There are = problems that I need to fix, but, the early results are good. =A0Here is a = brief summary:

1. =A0My oil temps are mostly under control. =A0After many different f= ixes, including adding air exit area, splitting the incoming air plenum to = force more air through the oil cooler, and increasing the size of my oil pl= umbing, my cruising temps range from 195=BAF to 205=BAF. =A0On a hot day, t= he climb-out temps are still too high and I will be working on that. =A0Mis= tral uses the oil injection system, so, I burn about 1 qt. every 5 to 6 hou= rs. =A0I'm using Idemitsu 20W-50 right now.
2. =A0Water temps are 183=BAF. =A0I cannot get it to go higher under a= ny circumstances.
3. =A0At 50% power, my fuel flow is 11 GPH rich and 9GPH lean. =A0I ca= nnot run much more power than that as the EGTs are too high. =A0
4. =A0My EGTs are still too high. =A0I've been discussing this wit= h the chief engineer at Mistral, and the prognosis is that I have a partial= ly clogged injector. =A0Since the fuel flows are calculated, they are proba= bly off. =A0I'm told that =A0I need a 10 micron filter. =A0I have a 40 = micron now, but I'm told that isn't enough. =A0
5. =A0I believe that my air plenum scoop is too big. =A0I've added= a ton of exit area, but I'm still pressurizing my cowl. =A0Cooling sho= uld improve if I cut down the scoop size. =A0I'll be working on that. = =A0
6. =A0The airplane is slow. =A0I'm hoping that I can get better sp= eeds once I cut down on the air plenum scoop. =A0
7. =A0I'd also like to get my muffler in the cowl, but with the te= chnology currently available, I don't see how. =A0Mufflers are just not= there. =A0Mark Steitle is having good results with his DNA, but they have = been discontinued. I don't see anything out there that will do the job.= =A0The tangential style mufflers are too power-robbing. =A0SpinTec muffler= s have been recommended in the past, but their shapes are not very aerodyna= mic. =A0Anyone that might have a good suggestion, I'm listening. =A0=A0=

Best Regards,

Steve Thomas<= br>
_______________________________________________________





On Apr 20, 2011, at 7:23 AM, Kelly Troyer wrote:

Steve,
=A0
=A0=A0 Other than the muffler how is your ship a= nd its complete "Mistral" firewall forward installation
doing ?..................Are your cooling system= s doing the job and is the Mistral "FADEC" single
lever fuel and ignition ECU keeping the EGT unde= r control ?............I am sure the=A0Rotary group
would be interested in hearing some of your numb= ers such as fuel flow, EGT, oil and coolant
temps, etc................
=A0
Best Regards,=A0=A0
=A0
Kelly Troyer
"D= YKE DELTA JD2"=A0(Eventually)

"13B ROTARY"_ Engine
"RWS"_RD1C/EC2/EM2
"= MISTRAL"_Backplate/Oil Manifold

"TURBONETICS"_TO4E50 Turbo



From:=A0Steve = Thomas <glasair2@me= .com>
To:= =A0Rotary motors in aircraft <flyrotary@lancaironline.net>
Sent:=A0Tue, A= pril 19, 2011 6:24:20 PM
Subject:=A0[FlyRotary] Burns Stainless Muffler Failure

I just did an inspection of my muffler and found that it was basically comi= ng apart inside.=A0 This is a Burns Stainless, 17" 2-Stage muffler aft= er 50 hours of flying behind a 2-rotor engine.=A0 Now, it could be that 50 = hours is a reasonable life for something like this, I don't know.=A0 Bu= t, it certainly confirms the stories of muffler disintegration.=A0 I've= inspected this muffler several times over the last 50 hours, but this is t= he first time that I've seen damage.=A0 But, when it comes apart, it re= ally comes apart.=A0 It is unfortunate, as the muffler was really effective= in reducing the noise and was light-weight.=A0=A0


Best Regards,

Steve Thomas

_____________________
<= br>



--485b393ab0fb74165804a15c5289--