X-Virus-Scanned: clean according to Sophos on Logan.com Return-Path: Received: from nm8-vm0.access.bullet.mail.sp2.yahoo.com ([98.139.44.118] verified) by logan.com (CommuniGate Pro SMTP 5.4c3j) with SMTP id 4946291 for flyrotary@lancaironline.net; Thu, 14 Apr 2011 11:47:57 -0400 Received-SPF: none receiver=logan.com; client-ip=98.139.44.118; envelope-from=keltro@att.net Received: from [98.139.44.96] by nm8.access.bullet.mail.sp2.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 14 Apr 2011 15:47:22 -0000 Received: from [98.139.44.67] by tm1.access.bullet.mail.sp2.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 14 Apr 2011 15:47:22 -0000 Received: from [127.0.0.1] by omp1004.access.mail.sp2.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 14 Apr 2011 15:47:22 -0000 X-Yahoo-Newman-Property: ymail-3 X-Yahoo-Newman-Id: 331669.42587.bm@omp1004.access.mail.sp2.yahoo.com Received: (qmail 84752 invoked by uid 60001); 14 Apr 2011 15:47:22 -0000 DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=att.net; s=s1024; t=1302796042; bh=gH2uIwFKHl52tkRLsg0lUjsVBLCnwAXGUnf0Aapon3c=; h=Message-ID:X-YMail-OSG:Received:X-Mailer:References:Date:From:Subject:To:In-Reply-To:MIME-Version:Content-Type; b=EUSbyLcIOH/r9nHNfdtI3/8PWe1UVbits64WtYyM/9o9TZB/sPAiWnZxmxddxR+Yz6MzQP1SnHlyyzavKrA9583onvbVIqUi4DWXcDZVBUu17z9+gbAlDBMWe9/uRDdE2SkD+JZyUzNuSsueNEBvQtevwNYxQcBghec3q8T2+is= DomainKey-Signature:a=rsa-sha1; q=dns; c=nofws; s=s1024; d=att.net; h=Message-ID:X-YMail-OSG:Received:X-Mailer:References:Date:From:Subject:To:In-Reply-To:MIME-Version:Content-Type; b=mgdO4ClgSLiVoAwzAPBmEV5kUBfF+gAgTAqq98s7YD1dkIXKm5WB7F/qfGGIJTPY18v1s9hmLbiY5tkjW5TRA8o7OeTcFEAdogC3lmZyLlqSM1bgromPtpVRiMyHOkRbh/vEgChNP773lGKwRTwfDNiPmw/ksX0imqADoiVFU+0=; Message-ID: <156597.72006.qm@web83916.mail.sp1.yahoo.com> X-YMail-OSG: bm0vZfcVM1n6MU3pokN.kMbJ3bONkeMW418_uPJm.C_CK8Y q_NQg5q1xqMwF.We_z_ERdigdTVHpsmjZbF7E3n5xMTGDYZBIyvQ8PMWBKIv apWiLTuy_jRR_qhSNiUYJOEoHbQWOnKQJp6UZ1aMUfuN8U_edQokjk7NZgz6 8ySJOsGFT3zWd38YWmjY8qyITXfX6pR.3RczGBZPZlpZOUBTqYidBRsq3BSG kFrFQhcNUBzt1KyVpXffrxIamfZMGK8mUGbPeGnJKd9wUMUjUrOOMbiBIspg UHiDOwZY2WiIsYahOHEao9Y0BsezWaFJeX2VxKZ5g5cZfX1XTNGoGN7njNOZ w85r3c6h12f8UGA6J Received: from [208.114.41.140] by web83916.mail.sp1.yahoo.com via HTTP; Thu, 14 Apr 2011 08:47:21 PDT X-Mailer: YahooMailRC/559 YahooMailWebService/0.8.109.295617 References: Date: Thu, 14 Apr 2011 08:47:21 -0700 (PDT) From: Kelly Troyer Subject: Glider skills To: Rotary motors in aircraft In-Reply-To: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="0-84314831-1302796041=:72006" --0-84314831-1302796041=:72006 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable OK Guys..............Not to be out done how about the nose wheel not extend= ing =0Aon a "Lake=0AAmphibian"=A0after my "SES" check ride was finished (Sh= ort story was we went back =0Ato the=0Alake, landed and the FBO mechanic wa= s ferried across lake by the lake patrol to =0Ado quick=0Afix (grease=A0rag= in the doors (they were going over center and would not open) =0Aanother = =0A=0Awater take off and back to the airport.............Not as harrowing a= s engine =0Aouts and gliding=0Awith no ailerons..............Brian as for p= arachutes I have a few stories also =0Abut all my jumps=0Aare sport not mil= itary..............=0A=A0=A0=0AKelly Troyer=0A"DYKE DELTA JD2" (Eventually)= =0A"13B ROTARY"_ Engine=0A"RWS"_RD1C/EC2/EM2=0A"MISTRAL"_Backplate/Oil Mani= fold=0A"TURBONETICS"_TO4E50 Turbo=0A=0A=0A=0A=0A___________________________= _____=0AFrom: Ed Anderson =0ATo: Rotary motors i= n aircraft =0ASent: Thu, April 14, 2011 10:10:= 59 AM=0ASubject: [FlyRotary] Re: Glider skills was : [FlyRotary] Re: Coolin= g of the BIG =0AIRON=0A=0A=0AYep, couldn't agree more, Brian -In =A0some th= ings=A0haste doesn't have =0Asignficiant=A0consequences -=A0it doesn't matt= er - in aviation related things it =0Acertain does!=0A=A0=0AEd=0A=0A=0AFrom= : bktrub@aol.com =0ASent: Thursday, April 14, 2011 10:38 AM=0ATo: Rotary mo= tors in aircraft =0ASubject: [FlyRotary] Re: Glider skills was : [FlyRotary= ] Re: Cooling of the BIG =0AIRON=0AWhenever someone tries to hurry you thro= ugh something important like a =0Achecklist- then it's time to slow down. I= had my NCOIC triy to hurry me through =0Aa parachute repack during a serie= s of jumps so we could catch the last lift. I =0Ainitially hesitated, but l= istened to him and packed my chute. We jumped and I =0Ahad a malfunction- I= had packed it with an inversion. Thankfully the reserve =0Aworked (obvious= ly). I knew I shouldn't have hurried, but I listened to my idiot =0Aboss ra= ther than my own inner voice. =0A=0A=0ABrian Trubee=0A=0A=0A=0A=0A-----Orig= inal Message-----=0AFrom: Ed Anderson =0ATo: Rot= ary motors in aircraft =0ASent: Thu, Apr 14, 2= 011 7:12 am=0ASubject: [FlyRotary] Re: Glider skills was : [FlyRotary] Re: = Cooling of the BIG =0AIRON=0A=0A=0AYes, I must confess that sometimes my av= iation pursuit gets a bit more =0Ainteresting that I would prefer.=A0 But, = as they say you live and learn - provided =0Ayou live of course.=A0 Well,= =A0 having such incidents such as you and I have had =0Aearly on - it sort = of clues you in that flying is NOT inherently SAFE, so the =0Adecision to c= ontinue must mean we have a passion for it{:>)!=0A=A0=0AEd=0A=0A=0AFrom: Ma= rk Steitle =0ASent: Thursday, April 14, 2011 9:56 AM=0ATo: Rotary motors in= aircraft =0ASubject: [FlyRotary] Re: Glider skills was : [FlyRotary] Re: C= ooling of the BIG =0AIRON=0AEd,=A0 =0A=0AYes, you've lived an interesting l= ife (someone's obviously looking out for you). =0A=A0I too had a total engi= ne failure shortly before my checkride. =A0Lucky for me =0Athat my instruct= or was in the right seat. =A0We landed against the traffic at =0ARobert Mue= ller Airportn (Austin's main airport), shutting down the airport until =0Aw= e rolled off the runway with oil pouring from the engine. =A0Firetrucks arr= ived =0Ashortly thereafter, but no fire. =A0Gotta love those Lycomings (...= not).=A0=0A=0AMark=A0=0A=0A=0AOn Thu, Apr 14, 2011 at 8:47 AM, Ed Anderson = wrote:=0A=0AActually, Mark,=A0I think the few m= inutes I spent getting my Gliders Endorsement =0Aback in 1964 helped a bit = - even though a long time ago.=A0 At least that =0Aconvinced no engine didn= 't mean you immediately fell out of the sky {:>).=A0 But, =0Aeven back then= long before my rotary and experimental aircraft days, I was - =0Alets say = being flight=A0challenged.=0A>=A0=0A>The last day of my glider training, I = was running late getting to the air field =0A>and they were due to haul the= glider back to its distant homebase.=A0 I arrived =0A>just as they were pr= eparing to disassembly it for trailering back.=A0 The =0A>instructor was no= t happy at all about having to delay the process (I guess after =0A>a week = in Cordell OK, he wanted to get back to Mama).=0A>=A0=0A>In any case, he to= ld me not to bother pre-flighting the glider and to hop in and =0A>we would= hook up the tow plane and launch.=A0 Well, we did - got up to a bit above = =0A>pattern altitude and cut loose.=A0 Well, the instructor in the back sea= t berated =0A>me all around the pattern about using too much rudder.=A0 So = I knew he was not =0A>going to endorse my glider rating.=A0 So sweating and= a bit disappointed, I =0A>managed to "rudder" the glider onto final approa= ch.=A0 As we rolled out several =0A>people were running toward us.=0A>=A0= =0A>It turns out the aileron locks had been installed (and not doing a pref= light we =0A>obiviously missed them) and so I had flown the glider without = ailerons and that =0A>was why I had to use so much rudder to get some bank.= =A0 I was later told that had =0A>I let the wings get sufficiently low, the= re was no way the rudder could have =0A>pulled the wings back level!!=A0 = =0A>=0A>=A0=0A>The somewhat shaken instructor decided that if I could fly a= glider without =0A>ailerons - then I merited my glider endorsement.=0A>=A0= =0A>Did I ever tell you about the=A0engine-out landing=A0I experience one f= light=A0before =0A>my scheduled solo - or about the =A0tailwheel falling of= f as I taxied out for my =0A>1st solo flight - remind me to tell you=A0some= time {:>)=0A>=A0=0A>Ed=0A>=0A>=0A>From: Mark Steitle =0A>Sent: Thursday, Ap= ril 14, 2011 9:17 AM=0A>To: Rotary motors in aircraft =0A>Subject: [FlyRota= ry] Re: Cooling of the BIG IRON=0A>=0A>Ed,=A0 =0A>=0A>=0A>Oh, so that's whe= re you learned your excellent engine-out glide skills. =A0=0A>=0A>=0A>Mark= =0A>=0A>=0A>On Wed, Apr 13, 2011 at 10:38 PM, Ed Anderson =0Awrote:=0A>=0A>Ah, Yes,=0A>>=A0=0A>>Many a take off in the B-5= 2 fortress ( and one in the KC-135 tanker) on a Hot =0A>>Oklahoma day took = a lot of water being injected into the engines to give =0A>>sufficient thru= st to get airborne.=A0 In fact, failure of the water injection =0A>>system = on certain hot days required aborting the take off.=0A>>=A0=0A>>Ed=0A>>=0A>= >=0A>>From: Lehanover@aol.com =0A>>Sent: Wednesday, April 13, 2011 9:07 PM= =0A>>To: Rotary motors in aircraft =0A>>Subject: [FlyRotary] Re: Cooling of= the BIG IRON=0A>>=0A>>Well done Mr. Anderson. =0A>>=0A>>That 50/50 mixture= was also ingested by big radials in military power for =0A>>cooling and an= ti detonation.=0A>>=0A>>Same for early pure jets where it was added to add = mass to the exhaust flow on =0A>>take off.=0A>>=0A>>Lynn E. Hanover=0A>>=0A= >>In a message dated 4/13/2011 10:23:40 A.M. Atlantic Daylight Time, =0A>>e= anderson@carolina.rr.com writes:=0A>>I came across a study looking at ways = to cool aircraft racing engines (for the =0A>>BIG iron), makes some interes= ting reading as they look at EVERY way to cool a =0A>>race engine including= sacrificial boiling off (phase change) of an expendable =0A>>liquid as wel= l as spray bar cooling, etc.=0A>>>=A0=0A>=0A --0-84314831-1302796041=:72006 Content-Type: text/html; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
=0A
OK Guys..............Not to be out done how about t= he nose wheel not extending on a "Lake
=0A
Amphibian" after m= y "SES" check ride was finished (Short story was we went back to the
= =0A
lake, landed and the FBO mechanic was ferried across lake by the la= ke patrol to do quick
=0A
fix (grease rag in the doors (they = were going over center and would not open) another
=0A
water take= off and back to the airport.............Not as harrowing as engine outs an= d gliding
=0A
with no ailerons..............Brian as for parachute= s I have a few stories also but all my jumps
=0A
are sport not mil= itary..............
=0A
  
=0A

Kelly Troyer
"DYKE DELTA JD2" (Eventually)

=0A

"13B ROTARY"_ Engine
"RWS"_RD1C/EC2/EM2
"MISTR= AL"_Backplate/Oil Manifold

=0A

"TURBONETICS"_TO4E50 Turbo

=0A
<= BR>
=0A

=0A
=0A
= =0AFrom: Ed Anderson <ea= nderson@carolina.rr.com>
To: Rotary motors in aircraft <flyrotary@lancaironline.net>
Sent: Thu, April 14, 2011 10:= 10:59 AM
Subject: [FlyRo= tary] Re: Glider skills was : [FlyRotary] Re: Cooling of the BIG IRON

=0A
Yep, couldn't agree more, Brian -In &nb= sp;some things haste doesn't have signficiant consequences - = ;it doesn't matter - in aviation related things it certain does!=0A
 
=0A
= Ed
=0A
=0A

=0A=0A=0A
Sent: Th= ursday, April 14, 2011 10:38 AM
=0A=0A
Subject: [FlyRotary] Re: Glider = skills was : [FlyRotary] Re: Cooling of the BIG IRON
=0A
=0A
Whenever som= eone tries to hurry you through something important like a checklist- then = it's time to slow down. I had my NCOIC triy to hurry me through a parachute= repack during a series of jumps so we could catch the last lift. I initial= ly hesitated, but listened to him and packed my chute. We jumped and I had = a malfunction- I had packed it with an inversion. Thankfully the reserve wo= rked (obviously). I knew I shouldn't have hurried, but I listened to my idi= ot boss rather than my own inner voice.
=0A
 
=0A
B= rian Trubee

=0A


=0A--= ---Original Message-----
From: Ed Anderson <eanderson@carolina.rr.com= >
To: Rotary motors in aircraft <flyrotary@lancaironline.net>Sent: Thu, Apr 14, 2011 7:12 am
Subject: [FlyRotary] Re: Glider skills= was : [FlyRotary] Re: Cooling of the BIG IRON

=0A
=0A
Yes, I= must confess that sometimes my aviation pursuit gets a bit more interestin= g that I would prefer.  But, as they say you live and learn - provided= you live of course.  Well,  having such incidents such as you an= d I have had early on - it sort of clues you in that flying is NOT inherent= ly SAFE, so the decision to continue must mean we have a passion for it{:&g= t;)!
=0A
 
=0A
Ed
=0A
=0A
<= BR>
=0A
=0A= =0A
Sent: Thursday, April 14, 2011 9:56 AM
=0A=0A
Subject: [= FlyRotary] Re: Glider skills was : [FlyRotary] Re: Cooling of the BIG IRON<= /DIV>
=0A

Ed,  =0A

=0A
Yes,= you've lived an interesting life (someone's obviously looking out for you)= .  I too had a total engine failure shortly before my checkride.  = ;Lucky for me that my instructor was in the right seat.  We landed aga= inst the traffic at Robert Mueller Airportn (Austin's main airport), shutti= ng down the airport until we rolled off the runway with oil pouring from th= e engine.  Firetrucks arrived shortly thereafter, but no fire.  G= otta love those Lycomings (...not). 
=0A

=0A
Ma= rk 

=0A
On Thu, Apr 14, 2011 at 8:47 AM= , Ed Anderson <eanderson@carolina.rr.com> wrote:
=0A
=0A
=0A
Actually, Mark, = I think the few minutes I spent getting my Gliders Endorsement back in 1964= helped a bit - even though a long time ago.  At least that convinced = no engine didn't mean you immediately fell out of the sky {:>).  Bu= t, even back then long before my rotary and experimental aircraft days, I w= as - lets say being flight challenged.
=0A
 
=0A
The last day of my g= lider training, I was running late getting to the air field and they were d= ue to haul the glider back to its distant homebase.  I arrived just as= they were preparing to disassembly it for trailering back.  The instr= uctor was not happy at all about having to delay the process (I guess after= a week in Cordell OK, he wanted to get back to Mama).
=0A
=  
=0A
In any cas= e, he told me not to bother pre-flighting the glider and to hop in and we w= ould hook up the tow plane and launch.  Well, we did - got up to a bit= above pattern altitude and cut loose.  Well, the instructor in the ba= ck seat berated me all around the pattern about using too much rudder. = ; So I knew he was not going to endorse my glider rating.  So sweating= and a bit disappointed, I managed to "rudder" the glider onto final approa= ch.  As we rolled out several people were running toward us.=0A
 
=0A
It turns out the aileron locks had been installed (and not doing a preflig= ht we obiviously missed them) and so I had flown the glider without aileron= s and that was why I had to use so much rudder to get some bank.  I wa= s later told that had I let the wings get sufficiently low, there was no wa= y the rudder could have pulled the wings back level!! 
= =0A
 
=0A
Th= e somewhat shaken instructor decided that if I could fly a glider without a= ilerons - then I merited my glider endorsement.
=0A
 
=0A
Did I ever tell y= ou about the engine-out landing I experience one flight befo= re my scheduled solo - or about the  tailwheel falling off as I taxied= out for my 1st solo flight - remind me to tell you sometime {:>)
=0A
 
=0A
Ed
=0A
=0A

=0A
=0A=0A
Sent: Thursday, April 14, 2011 = 9:17 AM
=0A=0A
Subject: [= FlyRotary] Re: Cooling of the BIG IRON
=0A

E= d,  =0A

=0A
Oh, so that's where you learned your exc= ellent engine-out glide skills.  
=0A

=0A
Mark<= BR>
=0A
On Wed, Apr 13, 2011 at 10:38 PM, Ed And= erson <ea= nderson@carolina.rr.com> wrote:
=0A
=0A
= =0A
Ah, Yes,
=0A
&= nbsp;
=0A
Many a take off in the B-52 fortress ( an= d one in the KC-135 tanker) on a Hot Oklahoma day took a lot of water being= injected into the engines to give sufficient thrust to get airborne. = In fact, failure of the water injection system on certain hot days require= d aborting the take off.
=0A
 =0A
Ed
=0A
=0A

=0A
=0A=0A
Sent: Wednesday, April 13, 2011 9:07 PM
= =0A=0A
<= B>Subject: [FlyRotary] Re: Cooling of the BIG IRON
=0A=
=0A
=0A
=0A

=0A
Well done Mr. Anderson.
=0A
 
=0A=
That 50/50 mixture was also ingested by big radials in military power = for cooling and anti detonation.
=0A
 
=0A
Same for = early pure jets where it was added to add mass to the exhaust flow on take = off.
=0A
 
=0A
Lynn E. Hanover
=0A
 =0A
=0A
In a message dated 4/13/2011 10:23:40 A.M. Atlantic Day= light Time, eanderson@carolin= a.rr.com writes:
=0A
=0A
I came across a study looking at ways to cool aircraft racing engines (fo= r the BIG iron), makes some interesting reading as they look at EVERY way t= o cool a race engine including sacrificial boiling off (phase change) of an= expendable liquid as well as spray bar cooling, etc.
=0A
<= FONT face=3DArial> 


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