X-Virus-Scanned: clean according to Sophos on Logan.com Return-Path: Received: from imr-ma04.mx.aol.com ([64.12.206.42] verified) by logan.com (CommuniGate Pro SMTP 5.4c3j) with ESMTP id 4946210 for flyrotary@lancaironline.net; Thu, 14 Apr 2011 10:39:48 -0400 Received-SPF: pass receiver=logan.com; client-ip=64.12.206.42; envelope-from=Bktrub@aol.com Received: from imo-ma03.mx.aol.com (imo-ma03.mx.aol.com [64.12.78.138]) by imr-ma04.mx.aol.com (8.14.1/8.14.1) with ESMTP id p3EEdAH9014388 for ; Thu, 14 Apr 2011 10:39:10 -0400 Received: from Bktrub@aol.com by imo-ma03.mx.aol.com (mail_out_v42.9.) id q.1082.38c20ab (44630) for ; Thu, 14 Apr 2011 10:39:06 -0400 (EDT) Received: from smtprly-dc03.mx.aol.com (smtprly-dc03.mx.aol.com [205.188.170.3]) by cia-mc01.mx.aol.com (v129.9) with ESMTP id MAILCIAMC013-d3bf4da70702114; Thu, 14 Apr 2011 10:39:04 -0400 Received: from webmail-m087 (webmail-m087.sim.aol.com [64.12.224.201]) by smtprly-dc03.mx.aol.com (v129.9) with ESMTP id MAILSMTPRLYDC037-d3bf4da70702114; Thu, 14 Apr 2011 10:38:58 -0400 References: To: flyrotary@lancaironline.net Subject: Re: [FlyRotary] Re: Glider skills was : [FlyRotary] Re: Cooling of the BIG IRON Date: Thu, 14 Apr 2011 10:38:58 -0400 X-AOL-IP: 69.84.254.253 In-Reply-To: X-MB-Message-Source: WebUI MIME-Version: 1.0 From: bktrub@aol.com X-MB-Message-Type: User Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="--------MB_8CDC8C8D2C86E4D_147C_D966_webmail-m087.sysops.aol.com" X-Mailer: AOL Webmail 33540-STANDARD Received: from 69.84.254.253 by webmail-m087.sysops.aol.com (64.12.224.201) with HTTP (WebMailUI); Thu, 14 Apr 2011 10:38:57 -0400 Message-Id: <8CDC8C8D21D0B05-147C-626C@webmail-m087.sysops.aol.com> X-Spam-Flag:NO X-AOL-SENDER: Bktrub@aol.com ----------MB_8CDC8C8D2C86E4D_147C_D966_webmail-m087.sysops.aol.com Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Whenever someone tries to hurry you through something important like a che= cklist- then it's time to slow down. I had my NCOIC triy to hurry me throu= gh a parachute repack during a series of jumps so we could catch the last= lift. I initially hesitated, but listened to him and packed my chute. We= jumped and I had a malfunction- I had packed it with an inversion. Thankf= ully the reserve worked (obviously). I knew I shouldn't have hurried, but= I listened to my idiot boss rather than my own inner voice.=20 Brian Trubee -----Original Message----- From: Ed Anderson To: Rotary motors in aircraft Sent: Thu, Apr 14, 2011 7:12 am Subject: [FlyRotary] Re: Glider skills was : [FlyRotary] Re: Cooling of th= e BIG IRON Yes, I must confess that sometimes my aviation pursuit gets a bit more int= eresting that I would prefer. But, as they say you live and learn - provi= ded you live of course. Well, having such incidents such as you and I ha= ve had early on - it sort of clues you in that flying is NOT inherently SA= FE, so the decision to continue must mean we have a passion for it{:>)! =20 Ed From: Mark Steitle=20 Sent: Thursday, April 14, 2011 9:56 AM To: Rotary motors in aircraft=20 Subject: [FlyRotary] Re: Glider skills was : [FlyRotary] Re: Cooling of th= e BIG IRON Ed, =20 Yes, you've lived an interesting life (someone's obviously looking out for= you). I too had a total engine failure shortly before my checkride. Luc= ky for me that my instructor was in the right seat. We landed against the= traffic at Robert Mueller Airportn (Austin's main airport), shutting down= the airport until we rolled off the runway with oil pouring from the engi= ne. Firetrucks arrived shortly thereafter, but no fire. Gotta love those= Lycomings (...not).=20 Mark=20 On Thu, Apr 14, 2011 at 8:47 AM, Ed Anderson = wrote: Actually, Mark, I think the few minutes I spent getting my Gliders Endorse= ment back in 1964 helped a bit - even though a long time ago. At least th= at convinced no engine didn't mean you immediately fell out of the sky {:>= ). But, even back then long before my rotary and experimental aircraft da= ys, I was - lets say being flight challenged. =20 The last day of my glider training, I was running late getting to the air= field and they were due to haul the glider back to its distant homebase.= I arrived just as they were preparing to disassembly it for trailering= back. The instructor was not happy at all about having to delay the proc= ess (I guess after a week in Cordell OK, he wanted to get back to Mama). =20 In any case, he told me not to bother pre-flighting the glider and to hop= in and we would hook up the tow plane and launch. Well, we did - got up= to a bit above pattern altitude and cut loose. Well, the instructor in= the back seat berated me all around the pattern about using too much rudd= er. So I knew he was not going to endorse my glider rating. So sweating= and a bit disappointed, I managed to "rudder" the glider onto final appro= ach. As we rolled out several people were running toward us. =20 It turns out the aileron locks had been installed (and not doing a preflig= ht we obiviously missed them) and so I had flown the glider without ailero= ns and that was why I had to use so much rudder to get some bank. I was= later told that had I let the wings get sufficiently low, there was no wa= y the rudder could have pulled the wings back level!! =20 =20 The somewhat shaken instructor decided that if I could fly a glider withou= t ailerons - then I merited my glider endorsement. =20 Did I ever tell you about the engine-out landing I experience one flight= before my scheduled solo - or about the tailwheel falling off as I taxie= d out for my 1st solo flight - remind me to tell you sometime {:>) =20 Ed From: Mark Steitle=20 Sent: Thursday, April 14, 2011 9:17 AM To: Rotary motors in aircraft=20 Subject: [FlyRotary] Re: Cooling of the BIG IRON Ed, =20 Oh, so that's where you learned your excellent engine-out glide skills. = =20 Mark On Wed, Apr 13, 2011 at 10:38 PM, Ed Anderson = wrote: Ah, Yes, =20 Many a take off in the B-52 fortress ( and one in the KC-135 tanker) on a= Hot Oklahoma day took a lot of water being injected into the engines to= give sufficient thrust to get airborne. In fact, failure of the water in= jection system on certain hot days required aborting the take off. =20 Ed From: Lehanover@aol.com=20 Sent: Wednesday, April 13, 2011 9:07 PM To: Rotary motors in aircraft=20 Subject: [FlyRotary] Re: Cooling of the BIG IRON Well done Mr. Anderson.=20 =20 That 50/50 mixture was also ingested by big radials in military power for= cooling and anti detonation. =20 Same for early pure jets where it was added to add mass to the exhaust flo= w on take off. =20 Lynn E. Hanover =20 In a message dated 4/13/2011 10:23:40 A.M. Atlantic Daylight Time, eanders= on@carolina.rr.com writes: I came across a study looking at ways to cool aircraft racing engines (for= the BIG iron), makes some interesting reading as they look at EVERY way= to cool a race engine including sacrificial boiling off (phase change) of= an expendable liquid as well as spray bar cooling, etc. =20 ----------MB_8CDC8C8D2C86E4D_147C_D966_webmail-m087.sysops.aol.com Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Content-Type: text/html; charset="us-ascii"
Whenever someone tries to hurry you through something important like= a checklist- then it's time to slow down. I had my NCOIC triy to hurry me= through a parachute repack during a series of jumps so we could catch the= last lift. I initially hesitated, but listened to him and packed my chute= . We jumped and I had a malfunction- I had packed it with an inversion. Th= ankfully the reserve worked (obviously). I knew I shouldn't have hurried,= but I listened to my idiot boss rather than my own inner voice.
 
Brian Trubee



-----Original Message-----
From: Ed Anderson <eanderson@carolina.rr.com>
To: Rotary motors in aircraft <flyrotary@lancaironline.net>
Sent: Thu, Apr 14, 2011 7:12 am
Subject: [FlyRotary] Re: Glider skills was : [FlyRotary] Re: Cooling of th= e BIG IRON

Yes, I must confess that sometimes my aviation pur= suit gets a bit more interesting that I would prefer.  But, as they= say you live and learn - provided you live of course.  Well, = having such incidents such as you and I have had early on - it sort of cl= ues you in that flying is NOT inherently SAFE, so the decision to continue= must mean we have a passion for it{:>)!
 
Ed

Sent: Thursday, April 14, 2011 9:56 AM
Subject: [FlyRotary] Re: Glider skills was : [FlyRotary] Re:= Cooling of the BIG IRON

Ed, =20

Yes, you've lived an interesting life (someone's obviously looking ou= t for you).  I too had a total engine failure shortly before my check= ride.  Lucky for me that my instructor was in the right seat.  W= e landed against the traffic at Robert Mueller Airportn (Austin's main air= port), shutting down the airport until we rolled off the runway with oil= pouring from the engine.  Firetrucks arrived shortly thereafter, but= no fire.  Gotta love those Lycomings (...not). 

Mark 

On Thu, Apr 14, 2011 at 8:47 AM, Ed Anderson <eanderson@car= olina.rr.com> wrote:
Actually, Mark, I think the few minutes I spe= nt getting my Gliders Endorsement back in 1964 helped a bit - even though= a long time ago.  At least that convinced no engine didn't mean you= immediately fell out of the sky {:>).  But, even back then long= before my rotary and experimental aircraft days, I was - lets say being= flight challenged.
 
The last day of my glider training, I was running= late getting to the air field and they were due to haul the glider back= to its distant homebase.  I arrived just as they were preparing to= disassembly it for trailering back.  The instructor was not happy at= all about having to delay the process (I guess after a week in Cordell OK= , he wanted to get back to Mama).
 
In any case, he told me not to bother pre-flightin= g the glider and to hop in and we would hook up the tow plane and launch.&= nbsp; Well, we did - got up to a bit above pattern altitude and cut loose.=   Well, the instructor in the back seat berated me all around the pat= tern about using too much rudder.  So I knew he was not going to endo= rse my glider rating.  So sweating and a bit disappointed, I managed= to "rudder" the glider onto final approach.  As we rolled out severa= l people were running toward us.
 
It turns out the aileron locks had been installed= (and not doing a preflight we obiviously missed them) and so I had flown= the glider without ailerons and that was why I had to use so much rudder= to get some bank.  I was later told that had I let the wings get suf= ficiently low, there was no way the rudder could have pulled the wings bac= k level!! 
 
The somewhat shaken instructor decided that if I= could fly a glider without ailerons - then I merited my glider endorsemen= t.
 
Did I ever tell you about the engine-out land= ing I experience one flight before my scheduled solo - or about= the  tailwheel falling off as I taxied out for my 1st solo flight -= remind me to tell you sometime {:>)
 
Ed

Sent: Thursday, April 14, 2011 9:17 AM
Subject: [FlyRotary] Re: Cooling of the BIG IRON

Ed, =20

Oh, so that's where you learned your excellent engine-out glide skill= s.  

Mark

On Wed, Apr 13, 2011 at 10:38 PM, Ed Anderson <eanderson@ca= rolina.rr.com> wrote:
Ah, Yes,
 
Many a take off in the B-52 fortress ( and one in the= KC-135 tanker) on a Hot Oklahoma day took a lot of water being injected= into the engines to give sufficient thrust to get airborne.  In fact= , failure of the water injection system on certain hot days required abort= ing the take off.
 
Ed

Sent: Wednesday, April 13, 2011 9:07 PM
Subject: [FlyRotary] Re: Cooling of the BIG IRON

Well done Mr. Anderson.
 
That 50/50 mixture was also ingested by big radials in military power= for cooling and anti detonation.
 
Same for early pure jets where it was added to add mass to the exhaus= t flow on take off.
 
Lynn E. Hanover
 
In a message dated 4/13/2011 10:23:40 A.M. Atlantic Daylight Time, eanderson@carolina.rr.com= writes:
I came across a study looking at ways to cool airc= raft racing engines (for the BIG iron), makes some interesting reading as= they look at EVERY way to cool a race engine including sacrificial boilin= g off (phase change) of an expendable liquid as well as spray bar cooling,= etc.
 


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