X-Virus-Scanned: clean according to Sophos on Logan.com Return-Path: Received: from mail-fx0-f52.google.com ([209.85.161.52] verified) by logan.com (CommuniGate Pro SMTP 5.4c3j) with ESMTPS id 4946203 for flyrotary@lancaironline.net; Thu, 14 Apr 2011 10:39:25 -0400 Received-SPF: pass receiver=logan.com; client-ip=209.85.161.52; envelope-from=msteitle@gmail.com Received: by fxm6 with SMTP id 6so1209062fxm.25 for ; Thu, 14 Apr 2011 07:38:49 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=gamma; h=domainkey-signature:mime-version:in-reply-to:references:date :message-id:subject:from:to:content-type; bh=Os5lshf6lInqfMUvafRJV/Cplx/r2RSHpn8l/fC0sBk=; b=hHPpgwSlB19WOC/Ny4jk2TSCW2NEw/U6m05eRfqFuCzp4pGFXHKHqE/yh9d808Qs0Q JtlfCmY/GBzxirBCauh2RWSy88RA7THVkjsjngjlL06UChn4cS1wLpJI1s3FPCZJfa5q SRzWST1IQFxGQoJhsuecN2I8qjuFZz4oXmKeg= DomainKey-Signature: a=rsa-sha1; c=nofws; d=gmail.com; s=gamma; h=mime-version:in-reply-to:references:date:message-id:subject:from:to :content-type; b=qyG3Lk+u4UIXRuJKMbz88h1DisBR3nkp1Zgah67xj6y1cDe9bXJTbgeE3g6LZhdjjp eCvBi5K28Sy+bcgvYOnA5p0fRc/tHcbxkCOBZbM+ySyQ8ftLWxTAznI2s0RrFPt4+CVC Dy3+OaK3yUeTNS+J5PRjH55aN8RxIKvn4Lq+A= MIME-Version: 1.0 Received: by 10.223.127.210 with SMTP id h18mr888181fas.73.1302791928996; Thu, 14 Apr 2011 07:38:48 -0700 (PDT) Received: by 10.223.102.141 with HTTP; Thu, 14 Apr 2011 07:38:48 -0700 (PDT) In-Reply-To: References: Date: Thu, 14 Apr 2011 09:38:48 -0500 Message-ID: Subject: Re: [FlyRotary] Re: Glider skills was : [FlyRotary] Re: Cooling of the BIG IRON From: Mark Steitle To: Rotary motors in aircraft Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary=00235453097024e4dd04a0e1e202 --00235453097024e4dd04a0e1e202 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Copy that! On Thu, Apr 14, 2011 at 9:12 AM, Ed Anderson wrote: > Yes, I must confess that sometimes my aviation pursuit gets a bit more > interesting that I would prefer. But, as they say you live and learn - > provided you live of course. Well, having such incidents such as you and I > have had early on - it sort of clues you in that flying is NOT inherently > SAFE, so the decision to continue must mean we have a passion for it{:>)! > > Ed > > *From:* Mark Steitle > *Sent:* Thursday, April 14, 2011 9:56 AM > *To:* Rotary motors in aircraft > *Subject:* [FlyRotary] Re: Glider skills was : [FlyRotary] Re: Cooling of > the BIG IRON > > Ed, > > Yes, you've lived an interesting life (someone's obviously looking out for > you). I too had a total engine failure shortly before my checkride. Lucky > for me that my instructor was in the right seat. We landed against the > traffic at Robert Mueller Airportn (Austin's main airport), shutting down > the airport until we rolled off the runway with oil pouring from the engine. > Firetrucks arrived shortly thereafter, but no fire. Gotta love those > Lycomings (...not). > > Mark > > On Thu, Apr 14, 2011 at 8:47 AM, Ed Anderson wrote: > >> Actually, Mark, I think the few minutes I spent getting my Gliders >> Endorsement back in 1964 helped a bit - even though a long time ago. At >> least that convinced no engine didn't mean you immediately fell out of the >> sky {:>). But, even back then long before my rotary and experimental >> aircraft days, I was - lets say being flight challenged. >> >> The last day of my glider training, I was running late getting to the air >> field and they were due to haul the glider back to its distant homebase. I >> arrived just as they were preparing to disassembly it for trailering back. >> The instructor was not happy at all about having to delay the process (I >> guess after a week in Cordell OK, he wanted to get back to Mama). >> >> In any case, he told me not to bother pre-flighting the glider and to hop >> in and we would hook up the tow plane and launch. Well, we did - got up to >> a bit above pattern altitude and cut loose. Well, the instructor in the >> back seat berated me all around the pattern about using too much rudder. So >> I knew he was not going to endorse my glider rating. So sweating and a bit >> disappointed, I managed to "rudder" the glider onto final approach. As we >> rolled out several people were running toward us. >> >> It turns out the aileron locks had been installed (and not doing a >> preflight we obiviously missed them) and so I had flown the glider without >> ailerons and that was why I had to use so much rudder to get some bank. I >> was later told that had I let the wings get sufficiently low, there was no >> way the rudder could have pulled the wings back level!! >> >> The somewhat shaken instructor decided that if I could fly a glider >> without ailerons - then I merited my glider endorsement. >> >> Did I ever tell you about the engine-out landing I experience one >> flight before my scheduled solo - or about the tailwheel falling off as I >> taxied out for my 1st solo flight - remind me to tell you sometime {:>) >> >> Ed >> >> *From:* Mark Steitle >> *Sent:* Thursday, April 14, 2011 9:17 AM >> *To:* Rotary motors in aircraft >> *Subject:* [FlyRotary] Re: Cooling of the BIG IRON >> >> Ed, >> >> Oh, so that's where you learned your excellent engine-out glide skills. >> >> Mark >> >> On Wed, Apr 13, 2011 at 10:38 PM, Ed Anderson wrote: >> >>> Ah, Yes, >>> >>> Many a take off in the B-52 fortress ( and one in the KC-135 tanker) on a >>> Hot Oklahoma day took a lot of water being injected into the engines to give >>> sufficient thrust to get airborne. In fact, failure of the water injection >>> system on certain hot days required aborting the take off. >>> >>> Ed >>> >>> *From:* Lehanover@aol.com >>> *Sent:* Wednesday, April 13, 2011 9:07 PM >>> *To:* Rotary motors in aircraft >>> *Subject:* [FlyRotary] Re: Cooling of the BIG IRON >>> >>> Well done Mr. Anderson. >>> >>> That 50/50 mixture was also ingested by big radials in military power for >>> cooling and anti detonation. >>> >>> Same for early pure jets where it was added to add mass to the exhaust >>> flow on take off. >>> >>> Lynn E. Hanover >>> >>> In a message dated 4/13/2011 10:23:40 A.M. Atlantic Daylight Time, >>> eanderson@carolina.rr.com writes: >>> >>> I came across a study looking at ways to cool aircraft racing engines >>> (for the BIG iron), makes some interesting reading as they look at EVERY way >>> to cool a race engine including sacrificial boiling off (phase change) of an >>> expendable liquid as well as spray bar cooling, etc. >>> >>> >>> >> > --00235453097024e4dd04a0e1e202 Content-Type: text/html; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Copy that!

On Thu, Apr 14, 2011 at 9:12 A= M, Ed Anderson <eanderson@carolina.rr.com> wrote:
Yes, I must confess that sometimes my aviation pu= rsuit=20 gets a bit more interesting that I would prefer.=A0 But, as they say you li= ve=20 and learn - provided you live of course.=A0 Well,=A0 having such incidents= =20 such as you and I have had early on - it sort of clues you in that flying i= s NOT=20 inherently SAFE, so the decision to continue must mean we have a passion fo= r=20 it{:>)!
=A0
Ed

Sent: Thursday, April 14, 2011 9:56 AM
Subject: [FlyRotary] Re: Glider skills was : [FlyRotary] = Re: Cooling=20 of the BIG IRON

Ed,=A0=20

Yes, you've lived an interesting life (someone's obviously loo= king out for=20 you). =A0I too had a total engine failure shortly before my checkride.=20 =A0Lucky for me that my instructor was in the right seat. =A0We landed=20 against the traffic at Robert Mueller Airportn (Austin's main airport),= shutting=20 down the airport until we rolled off the runway with oil pouring from the= =20 engine. =A0Firetrucks arrived shortly thereafter, but no fire. =A0Gotta=20 love those Lycomings (...not).=A0

Mark=A0

On Thu, Apr 14, 2011 at 8:47 AM, Ed Anderson <eanderson@carolina.rr.com>=20 wrote:
Actually, Mark,=A0I think the few minutes I spe= nt=20 getting my Gliders Endorsement back in 1964 helped a bit - even though a = long=20 time ago.=A0 At least that convinced no engine didn't mean you immedi= ately=20 fell out of the sky {:>).=A0 But, even back then long before my rotary= =20 and experimental aircraft days, I was - lets say being=20 flight=A0challenged.
=A0
The last day of my glider training, I was runni= ng late=20 getting to the air field and they were due to haul the glider back to its= =20 distant homebase.=A0 I arrived just as they were preparing to disassembly= =20 it for trailering back.=A0 The instructor was not happy at all about havi= ng=20 to delay the process (I guess after a week in Cordell OK, he wanted to ge= t=20 back to Mama).
=A0
In any case, he told me not to bother pre-fligh= ting the=20 glider and to hop in and we would hook up the tow plane and launch.=A0=20 Well, we did - got up to a bit above pattern altitude and cut loose.=A0= =20 Well, the instructor in the back seat berated me all around the pattern a= bout=20 using too much rudder.=A0 So I knew he was not going to endorse my glider= =20 rating.=A0 So sweating and a bit disappointed, I managed to "rudder&= quot; the=20 glider onto final approach.=A0 As we rolled out several people were runni= ng=20 toward us.
=A0
It turns out the aileron locks had been install= ed (and=20 not doing a preflight we obiviously missed them) and so I had flown the g= lider=20 without ailerons and that was why I had to use so much rudder to get some= =20 bank.=A0 I was later told that had I let the wings get sufficiently low,= =20 there was no way the rudder could have pulled the wings back level!!=A0= =20
=A0
The somewhat shaken instructor decided that if = I could=20 fly a glider without ailerons - then I merited my glider=20 endorsement.
=A0
Did I ever tell you about the=A0engine-out=20 landing=A0I experience one flight=A0before my scheduled solo - or about= =20 the =A0tailwheel falling off as I taxied out for my 1st solo flight -=20 remind me to tell you=A0sometime {:>)
=A0
Ed

Sent: Thursday, April 14, 2011 9:17 AM
Subject: [FlyRotary] Re: Cooling of the BIG IRON
<= /div>

Ed,=A0=20

Oh, so that's where you learned your excellent engine-out glide = skills.=20 =A0

Mark

On Wed, Apr 13, 2011 at 10:38 PM, Ed Anderson = <eanderson@carolina.rr.com> wrote:
Ah, Yes,
=A0
Many a take off in the B-52 fortress ( and one in= the=20 KC-135 tanker) on a Hot Oklahoma day took a lot of water being injected= into=20 the engines to give sufficient thrust to get airborne.=A0 In fact,=20 failure of the water injection system on certain hot days required abor= ting=20 the take off.
=A0
Ed

Sent: Wednesday, April 13, 2011 9:07 PM
Subject: [FlyRotary] Re: Cooling of the BIG=20 IRON

Well done Mr. Anderson.
=A0
That 50/50 mixture was also ingested by big radials in military po= wer=20 for cooling and anti detonation.
=A0
Same for early pure jets where it was added to add mass to the exh= aust=20 flow on take off.
=A0
Lynn E. Hanover
=A0
In a message dated 4/13/2011 10:23:40 A.M. Atlantic Daylight Time,= eanderson@c= arolina.rr.com writes:
I came across a study looking at ways to co= ol=20 aircraft racing engines (for the BIG iron), makes some interesting re= ading=20 as they look at EVERY way to cool a race engine including sacrificial= =20 boiling off (phase change) of an expendable liquid as well as spray b= ar=20 cooling, etc.
=A0
<= /font>



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